I know there has been some discussion in the past about using a power steering pump to drive a hydraulic winch, but I wonder if anybody else has used one of these to power any other kind of hydraulics?
I didn't know it, but one of my friend's sons works at a auto junk yard, and I now have access to some cheap parts. I just wondered if a power steering pump would have enough power to drive a couple of small cylinders and what the strength would be? I can see where I might be able to use one of these to make a log clamp and possibly a log turner for the home made bandmill--- if it would work and be strong enough. I would be driving it with a 12hp briggs lawn mower engine. Also, is there anything on a car or truck that one could modify to act as a drive motor- driven by the power steering pump? If so, I might could use this to drive the head rig...???
got any thoughts on this?
I saw some plans on a log splitter one time Ken that was powered by a power steering pump. It wasn't very fast but split logs pretty well.
Tried to find them, but as yet no luck.
keep on looking , i'd like to see those plans .
I've seen some post as well about power steering pumps used in homemade hydraulic systems. It seems a waste, all those junk power steering pumps ........ all those hydraulic pumps I mean. That's what they are, mini hyd pumps.
Quote from: getoverit on April 29, 2006, 01:06:22 PM
...... is there anything on a car or truck that one could modify to act as a drive motor- driven by the power steering pump?
I don't know either but I would like to extend the question to not only cars and trucks but other slave type hydraulic motors in other machines and applications. There's got to be a simple driven unit somewhere right under our noses, just like the power steering pumps are. Also, I've wondered if one power steering would drive another power steering pump, if not could it be modified to do so.
Thy work great to power cylinders....and they dont have to be little ones, I have even seen one powereing the mast ona forklift 8) 8) 8)
another question:
Does any car or truck actually use a hydraulic power steering cylinder like a ford tractor does on it's power steering? I can get them if I know what to ask for, and I bet I can make them work in my application.
I have been looking for a use for some of these old lawn mower vertical shaft motors I have laying around, and I'm thinking I can make a pretty good hydraulic system out of them if I can piece together all of the other junk to make it work.
I have wondered if one power steering pump could drive another power steering pump too... would make a good feed motor if it would work ;D
Quote from: getoverit on April 29, 2006, 07:36:19 PM
Does any car or truck actually use a hydraulic power steering cylinder.........
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I have wondered if one power steering pump could drive another power steering pump too...
If I was a mechanic I may could talk about rack & pinions, but I couldn't tell you if it was a cylinder, a slave motor or a rubber band pulling on the tie rod ends.
Ken, why don't you hook up two PS pumps to see if one will be driven and tell me what you found out. I've always wanted to do it but I haven't had the time. ;D ;D
Yes they will work as a pump. A nissan or toyota ps pump would be a good choice. They have remote tanks. Don't know if a ps pump will work as a motor, but I doubt it. I like woodbowl's suggestion.. ;D
If you can find something with a Eaton hydrostatic drive that would be perfect for head travel. Newer (variable speed, ie no shifting) lawn tractor, old concrete saw etc. and you don't need lines or valves.
The power assist and dampners of cars and light trucks aren't heavy enough to be very useful on a mill.
Late 60's Ford Mustangs had power assist cylinders attached to the drag link. They don't work the same way as the Ford tractor steering though; you still had to have a steering box that was operating the drag link.
I come across alot of old junked out farm machinery like grain swathers and combines that barely run for 50$ and each and every one has a complete little hydraulic system to be used for anything you could think .
My friend put a power steering pump on a old f-350 flatbed truck to run his homemade dump and that little pump just plays with a full load of firewood for dumping .
PS pumps are great. They work good for powering hydraulic motors, but the iddy-biddy reservior isn't great for cylinders. You can add a larger one, though.
Anybody have any idea what kind of GPM / PSI that the ps pumps put out?
Scott
Quote from: UNCLEBUCK on April 30, 2006, 12:14:12 AM
I come across alot of old junked out farm machinery like grain swathers and combines that barely run for 50$ and each and every one has a complete little hydraulic system to be used for anything you could think .
Wish I could find one of those kind of deals... looks like I might have to run over to DanG's place and visit Mr Hootie to get some
REAL bargains on hydraulics.
I'm just thinking out loud right now anyway. I keep going out to the shed to look at this bandmill and getting ideas on how I can improve it and make it easier to operate. I've now sawn a couple of logs with it and turning the logs is really easy to do. This mill actually pulls the log into the backstop's when cutting, so dogging isnt so much of an issue and wouldnt take much to dog a log down. Pushing the head isnt so hard to do either, but I can see where I can make it even easier to saw.
Since power steering pumps are so cheap and easy to come by, might as well use one of them if they will do the job for me.
scott
There are some listed in Surplus Center (http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006043000505445&item=9-5629&catname=hydraulic) and one mentioned is 50 psi with 2.3 gpm.
Another is listed higher, Bosch pwr str pump (http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006043000542946&item=9-5628&catname=hydraulic) with 3625 psi and 6.6 gpm. So a pretty good range, depending on what one gets ahold of.
getoverit, I am not sure the specs of a power steering pump but it'll work. I put one on a large horizontal bandsaw to lift the arm. Works great.
GM specs on PS pumps are 3-4 GPM and 1200-1500psi
Captain
Quote from: highpockets on April 30, 2006, 07:28:44 AM
............. a power steering pump but ....... I put one on a large horizontal bandsaw to lift the arm. Works great.
HP, what slave motor did you use with it?
what brand of car or truck uses a bosch power steering pump? Looks like that one will do a LOT !
Quote from: Captain on April 30, 2006, 07:36:30 AM
GM specs on PS pumps are 3-4 GPM and 1200-1500psi
Captain
Captain,
do
all GM pumps meet this flow and pressure rating or is it one particular one? If all of them do, I think I could come up with an external tank to supply all of the hydraulics for the mill with one pump. got any idea?
The specs I gave are capable of most pumps, the pumps with the most flow and pressure are on light trucks with hydroboost brakes.
Captain
Mile Marker brand winches work off of the vehicle's power steering pump.
The MM winches work great until the engine stalls. :D
Woodbowl, sorry I missed your question several days ago. I had a 1 h.p. 3 phase motor running the pump. You can't tell much about the saw as there is junk everywhere. The motor sitting on top in the right side of the photo is the one that lifted the sawhead,
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13145/bandsaw1.JPG)
Sombody straighten me out here. ............ I'm using terms that I've heard many years ago to express the location of the components. (Master and Slave) When I said slave motor, I meant that it was the motor being powered from the hydraulic pump. Are these terms obsolete or do they just apply to other areas such as master cylinder and slave cylinder ???
In my limited knowledge of equipment we always referred to a slave as the second item after a primary or master. If one had two motors powering something but only one was on line at a time, there would be a master and the slave would come in if the master failed.
I think the master-slave thing you refer to came into being when the automotive industry went to using hydraulic clutches.
To answer you question, I'd think that a pump and motor (motors) is a system. Remember is am a Louisiana Redneck so take it with a grain of salt.
-He eats frog legs too.. ;D
When one unit follows another, or is controlled by another it's the slave. Sheeple.. :D
Quote from: highpockets on May 04, 2006, 07:23:13 AM
Remember is am a Louisiana Redneck so take it with a grain of salt.
I'll remember that HP. I'll take mine with 6 LBS of cajun boiled crawfish and corn and new taters on the side. ;D
The frog legs were very good but the rabbit the week before was tough. I told them to par boil it.
Did they remember to par skin it?.... ??? ;D
well, I got the power steering pump today... supposed to be around 2000 PSI, but I'm not sure of the GPM it produces. I'll try it out and see how it does.
Next question:
does anybody know if it will make any difference if the pump is mounted with the pulley in the horizontal position instead of the vertical position it runs on cars?
If it does, put a half twist in the belt and use a longer belt.
All of the ones that I've seen had to be run horizontal, because the case was the tank and the pickup was on the bottom. Also, they did not have a significant thrust bearing on them for vertical operation.
This particular pump uses an external tank, so it is just the pump. I can mount the tank anywhere.
Does the line from the tank go directly into the cast iron pump housing, or is there some type of metal housing around the actual cast iron pump?
You may be able to mount this vertically, but I confess that I've never seen a hydraulic pump mounted vertical (not saying that it isn't done though). I would be concerned about the gears trapping air as usually the inlet and outlets to the pump chamber are mounted above/below, or at the back on the top side so as to allow the air to escape.
I'd suggest taking it apart and seeing where the actual ports into the gear chamber are, and mounting it so that they are positioned to allow air to escape.
Good luck! Scott
It goes directly into the pump housing. When it is mounted normally, the intake is on the top and the fluid out is located on the side. I'm still learning about these things and I'm not quite sure how one regulates the return if there is no need for the power. Perhaps a flow thru valve? I've got a 10 gallon round steel tank that I will be using for the tank, so there should be plenty of fluid for what ever I need. It would just be easier if it can be mounted in the vertical position.
Re vertical, try it and see.
You will need some type of bypass valve to allow the fluid to circulate when it's not being used to pump, or some type of electric clutch to only turn the pump on when you're activating the hydraulics. northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company and Surplus Center are two good locations to shop at.
You'll need open center/neutral valve(s).
Getoverit, I been about half reading this thread for several days. As I mentioned above I have used power steering pumps before. The one in my photo, I think came from a 1965 Ford car. I removed the tank which I believe was a kind of add (bolted on) top of the pump. I built a flange for the two lines and mounted an old briggs gas tank above for the reservoir. This type of pump was one that was exposed and not covered by the reservoir. I think you'd be much better with this kind of pump. I had to replace the pump on my winch truck which runs a 3208 Cat. The salvage wanted some $350.00 for a used one. A friend of mine found me a pump off either an International or a big Chev truck. These work rather well for what you are doing.
Not to discourage you as I am truly a junk yard junky, but what I read, and assuming you are going to build log clamps, a turner, etc., the pump is a minor investment in the total cost. You can get a new pump for some $100.00 or so. The spools, hydraulic hoses, fittings, motors, are going to be the biggy. I'd probably be looking at some kind of tractor salvage, old farms where equipment is junked out in the grass. Combines, cotton pickers, spray rigs, etc have some nice hydraulics on them. Just my two cents worth.
Highpockets, If you could have just one hydraulic feature to aid in your operation, what would it be? Trent
Quote from: Trent on May 06, 2006, 08:40:30 AM
Highpockets, If you could have just one hydraulic feature to aid in your operation, what would it be? Trent
-his old dog.. ;D
Trent, as old as I am I think I'd have a gin and tonic as the hydraulics. :D
That is a hard call. Probably the sawfeed. I have 8 circuits now and would like 2 more.
JP, Zeus is asking when you are coming. He gets tired of barking at the same people.
I need to test some cylinders. Would I be able to hook a power steerig pump to an electric motor then attach a line to the cylinder? I just want to see if they work or not.
Gary, you can but you need a valve to control the flow. I'd use compressed air first just to see if their are stuck.
GOE, I'm still waiting for your test results about whether a power steering pump could drive another power steering pump. ::) ::)
I have one power steering pump on hand, and now have the lawn mower completely disassembled. I'm working on mounting the 12hp briggs onto the bed of the sawmill and then will begin adding components. It sure would be nice to be able to use another PS pump for a drive unit. if I can get my hands on another one, I'll test this first. In the mean time, I have found a couple of hydraulic motors on ebay that I have bid on (dirt cheap :) ).
Looks like I may be going over to your neck of the woods in a couple of weeks. I could use some hydraulic cylinders for the log lifter and the log turner and I need a control valve also. Maybe Mr. Hootie has some real bargains on these types of things?
Next week I am going on a well needed vacation to Mexico, so I'll be out of touch for that period.
Give me a little notice when you plan to come through and we'll ruffle DanG out of the shade and we'll all head over to Mr. Hooties. 8)
Highpockets The only thing I know about hydrulics is move this lever and it does this. Are you saying that if they move and don't leak they should be good. I am taking these off of some big dies. They all have oil in them when i take them off.
Quote from: woodbowl on May 10, 2006, 09:04:15 AM
GOE, I'm still waiting for your test results about whether a power steering pump could drive another power steering pump. ::) ::)
Just a pointer when transforming hydraulic pumps into motors.....single direction only is possible. If dual direction is attempted, you'll blow out your drive shaft seals. This is due to the configeration of the internal seals between the high / low pressure sides of the pump, the method of bearing lube and the lack of internal check valves across the high / low pressures.
However, a motor to a pump is a doddle.
Tim
Sorry beenthere....British colloquial
Doddle....easy one, low on problems.
Timburr,
Doddle, that could become as common here as whack.
Great, a new word. :) How is it pronounced? Like toddle but with a d ?
Gary, what I am saying is that you can see if they are stuck. Assuming they are (were) full of oi, and they move with the air test, then I'd use them. Of course you could have a leaking piston, etc under high pressure but it ain't a big problem to repack a cylinder. l wouldn't give it a second thought.
Quote from: getoverit on May 10, 2006, 11:43:20 AM
Maybe Mr. Hootie has some real bargains on these types of things?
::) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Those smiles cost money ya know.. :D