I'm going to pour a 4'x24' concrete pad for my WM today. This is pretty much a "falling off a log" kind of job, but other than keeping it level, is there anything I need to watch-out for or special additions? I am considering a few anchor bolts to keep the saw from "walking" I also wonder how freezing will affect a 6" slab and thought about digging a few 6"x 18" piers at the ends and center.
This will be hand mixed in a concrete mixer that only mixes about 7 gals at a time, so I don't want to get crazy with footers. My cousin has an old 6" slab that has no footer at all and it has never moved.
I am totally spoiled by our mild winters in south Texas and I'm not sure what to expect here in West Virginia.
Quinton
I'm not a concrete engineer so these are just my thoughts on the subject.
It's important to have a good base to pour the slab onto. That is, not solid, undisturbed soil at one place while you have fill dirt at another. Either dig down to undisturbed soil or fill with something like gravel or sand.
Piers probably won't help much but may actually make a point for the slab to break up. A full parameter footing down below the frost line would do the trick but I don't think it'd be necessary. I'd go for re-rod and wire reinforcements. If it's all outside and if it gets cold, it'll all heave at the same pressure so it shouldn't move anywhere but up and down.
I don't know if I'd anchor the mill down. Would it be better for the mill to slide if bumped too hard? I'd think maybe bolt it to heavy 6x6s or the like and let them just rest on the slab.
The mill up the rode from me put 4 ft 6x6 post in the ground. I think they are 4 ft apart.
EZ
The heaving from freezing will depend on the soil underneath the gravel base. If it is clay, it will frost heave, from my experience. If you put enough re-bar and/or wire in the concrete, then it might float on the frost-heaved ground. If you are on soil such as gravel till then frost may not bother. Ask around for local help as well, talking to contractors and others who have put in floating pads. Consider the risks of having the slab move, which would mean re-leveling when it happens.
Just my 2 cents - I would buy the concrete ready mixed, truck comes, truck goes, done in 10 minutes - 10 times as strong when cured, spend the rest of the day at a picnic. You will be handmixing 'till the cows come home.
I agree with Mike. Buy it ready-mix. Mixing by hand is tough work. And at 7 gal at a time you will have lots of "cold joints" which will cause problems later, and it will take a long time to mix that volume by hand.
Not for sure about a LT-15 but my mill is much easier on the back if I get it off the ground some.
My thoughts on concrete...wire mesh prevents the cracks from separating while re-bar prevents cracks and the slab will hopefully move as a unit.
Delivered concrete is $100 per yard here with a three yard minimum( I just poured 22 yards last week...believe me, I know) and getting a truck down to my saw is just not practical.
My mixer is 1/8 yard and I'm pouring 1.4 yards for this pad. I'll have two young men loading the mixer and there won't be a problem with bad joins. I've poured 10' wide driveways using a mixer this size with no problems as long as there is enough help and they don't collapse from the exertion. :D
I'll use packed crush-n-run for the base and 1/4" cattle panels for steel re-inforcement and a couple 20' lengths of 5/8" re-bar. I've poured tons of concrete in Texas but never in a freezing climate...but my cousins experience makes me think it'll be OK.
I just thought someone on the forum that lives in the cold north might have done the same for their saw and could pass on their experience.
I appreciate the advice!
Quinton
I am not a concrete worker but with my pap I done some concrete pouring in cold climate and those are my suggestion:
Dig at least one foot and half, do a layer of rock that has the dimension of a pineapple ::) and oval-shaped then position over it a metallic net ( I don't know if properly translated so you could take a look at metallic net (http://www.cavannatrafilerie.it/rete%20elettrosaldata.htm)). Mix the concrete with a little bit more water so it could pour in the rock layer. The metallic net must be cover with at least one inch of concrete.
I don't know how much is cold the winter in West Virginia, but the concrete that I poured withstand at
-15 -20 Celsius degree
At 6" thick a 4' x 24' slab will take almost 2 yards, without any footings. ;)
What I do is put down at about an inch of gravel over undesturbed soil. Frame in you 2x6 forms the put down 6 mil plastic over the gravel. Put in 3/8" rebar wired together on 18" centers, and for real tough job lay in wire mesh over that. Tie it all together and lift it off the plastic with chairs or blocks, or while pouring.
The trick is to leave those forms on for a few weeks or more. Don't put a load on it for about 4-5 days. This alows the concrete to cure so slow and strong you will not have a problem.
slab is a good idea
but bolt it to some 6x6 so it can move a little just like Bibbyman said
I have seen mills chained to a slab but never bolted
Well, here's the finished pad. I put it in exactly as I outlined in my last post. Only change is that the young bucks did not show...so my cousin (65) and me (61) and my honey (I'm not allowed to give her age) hand mixed 1.45 yards of concrete including hand pumping the water out of a 55 gal drum in four hours. I bull floated and then hand finished. (why did I do that? It's a saw pad!) Started at 10:00 AM, did the last trowel at 5:00 pm. Now I have an absolutely level pad for my saw...no more sinking wood mounts.
Now, I'm gonna drink 6 beers and cook a steak and not worry about what my body is going to feel like tomorrow. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13195/Saw-bed-1.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13195/saw-bed-2.JPG)
Lookin' good... beers and steak sound good too.. ;D
Like my granddaughter would say"GOOD JOB"
good thing you got that slab down before sawing any wood :)
looks nice, I was going to do that, but never got that far.
Neat design. What's the dimensions on your sawshed? And did you saw all that lumber with an LT-15?
Riles,
The sawshed is 20'x44' and was built using wood sawn on the LT15. I'm going to extend the shed 10' more to cover the new pad
The wood you see stacked in the shed is a very small portion of the wood that I've sawn with the LT15 to build my cabin and I've got a lot more wood on the ground ready to saw.
Quinton
Nice Looking sawpad. I'm thinking of pouring one myself as I have a tractor mounted mixer.
What do you think of real shallow slopes on 4' wide pads parallel to your main slab. Could make clean-up with a blower or a hi-pressure washer real easy. Whatdaya think? ???
Hi Lud,
I have to load my logs with my tractor, so unless I made the pad level with the ground I'd be climbing up on the pad each time. I do plan to concrete the shed someday when my cabin is built and all of the wood stacks are gone.
We set the saw on the pad yesterday and re-sawed some posts and beams. I was SO much easier. The saw was 10" higher than before and everthing was easier to reach. Cleanup is a snap now also. I can but the blade of the loaded right at the edge of the concrete and drag the sawdust away and use the blower to clean the slab.
Load with the tractor? Do you mean with a front end loader? I think that can be hard on the mill's squareness as tractors are so strong and logs are so heavy.
How about a pic of the mill on the pad? It's proximity to the shed interests me.
Turning logs into :
boards
- neat pieces
- sawdust
slabwood and burnups
That is 4 or 5 different destinations from one source. We all grapple with doin' that smart, don't we. 8)
Lud, here are a couple pics. I normally chain big logs to the middle of the loader when loading the saw because the forks are so much forward that the tractor runs out of lift. I'm just re-sawing my sills to final size in these pics.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13195/Loading%20Saw.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13195/Saw%20on%20Pad.JPG)
Quinton
Was there a mistake in planning? trying to load logs is going to be alot of fun. you need to turn the mill around so the dogs will stop the log when it rolls onto the mill.. It appears that could be a problem !! you may want to think about making some kind of log stops to pu onthe other side to stop logs from going over the backside.....
That is awesome Quinton!.. 8)
I want a building like that. Need a loader too.. :)
No mistake in planning Bull. If you take a close look at the tree and stump location around my sawshed, it's clear why It's oriented the way it is. Also, if I turn the saw around as you suggest, I'll fill the shed with sawdust with no way to get it back out. I don't roll the logs onto the saw, I set them on the saw. I've never had a log roll off of the saw.
Quinton
it will happen quinton i promise.
ps nice looking place you got set up there.
I have my saw frame bolted to the slab. No problems in two years. I hang a bucket on the discharge side to make clean up easier. On a large log I can fill a 5 gallon bucket in one pass. :o
Quinton,
A knothead question. Are those the original hydraulics on your loader, or did you replace them?
Rather than to build forks with a frame to replace the bucket, this time I opted to build to attach to the bucket. The length of the bucket in 'real time' was a skosh more noticeable in decreasing my lift capacity than I anticipated (quantum theory?).
Did you end up putting anchors in your pad (if you said, I don't remember)?
OK.
My curiosity about your fel hydraulics was prompted by the fact that the cylinders were black.
Having just returned from another part of the state, in which there are a LOT of tractors about, I saw a couple other Kubota loaders with black hydraulic cylinders. I was intentionally looking, since I noticed them on yours. Maybe I just never had looked that closely before at others, and was basing my ??? on those I've had.
Hey Tcsmpsi, sorry about the late reply, didn't see it until today.
The hydraulics are the orginals, I just bought this tractor last October.
I did not put anchors in the slab but I will put the saw up on stands later on. The guy that I bought the saw from had it on stands which he included with the sale.
My old ford 1910 BLT had 3" cylinders and would out-lift and out-dig this Kubota.
Quinton
The last Kubota I had (bought back in late '80s), though a tad smaller model, would outlift this new one. Probably more of this safety factor stuff.
I know this new one wouldn't move and set the pilings I used to with the old one. Fresh, special order, double treated 24' 8X8s tend to get a little heavy.
I am really anxious for my mill to be ready, in many ways.
I know the pad looks to be a great help.
This is a Great Bend loader and as soon as the warranty is up, I'm going to put 3" boom cylinders on it. It just needs a little more lift. I loaded a 29" x 10' log on the saw with it this morning and it lifted it OK as long as I kept the bucket curled back to keep the load close to the tractor.
BTW, that was all I wanted to saw and turn on the LT15 also! ::)
Quinton
My Kubota loader has brackets with holes low on the main arm behind the bucket so I added a hook on a clevis to each. Two skidding tongs on short pieces of chain on these hooks will lift more than when I hang them from hooks welded to the top of the bucket since the weight is further back.
However, I'm building forks for the 3-point hitch for the back of the tractor. I bought some forklift forks from a junk dealer and plan to weld up a frame from 1/2" steel stock. I figure this will lift about twice what I can lift with the front end loader hydraulics. (My Kubota dealer advised me against always pushing the FEL to the limit, saying they've seen tractors damaged that way. If that's the case, seems like increasing the cylinder size might be asking for trouble.)
BTW, the best thing I ever got for my tractor was a set of quick-connect (skid steer) forks, letting me swap the bucket for forks in about 2 minutes. I use the forks more than I could have imagined around the farm and sawmill. In addition to moving smaller logs and stacks of wood, I generally offload directly onto the forks.
JKJ
Quinton,
Great looking place. Your pad turned out fine. What size tractor is that? I'm looking at a 30 Hp Yanmar and am just looking for a comparison.
Andy
Hey Wknd,
The tractor is a 3130 Kubota 32hp. They make this tractor as a 32, 35 or 38 hp and I wish I had opted for the 38. I like the tractor but the extra horses would be handy at times.
Quinton
I got a 4330 last year....Just what the doc ordered. Traded off a McCormiK 40 h.p Biggest piece of crap I ever owned. >:( >:( I put about 50 hours on it and traded it for the Kubota ;D ;D
Hey ,Quinton......been awful busy and just getting back on after you posted those excellent pics. Nice looking shed! What's the size? Is that Galv metal Roofed?
What about those double dip sills? How long are they supposed to be good for?