I was conversing with Norm the other day and he mentioned a power feeder for my Powermatic 2000 cab saw as something I might want to look into. So knowing good advice when I hear it I am doing just that.
I have quickly come to the conclusion that I know little if anything about power feeders. But a power feeder seems to be something I could put to good use.
Here is what I know:
Grizzly carries them from 1/4 hp hobby size to 1 hp production models.
Powermatic has similar models at roughly twice the price.
What are the features I should be looking for to do some production work? My work will include rabetting wo 5/4 x 8 x 12ft boards - the rabett will be 13/16 x 5/8 for approximately 800 linear feet using a dado blade on the PM2000. I will also be finishing various hardwoods in 1000 to 3000 bd ft batches on occasion which will entail edging and ripping on the PM. I work by myself so the power assist could be a real boon.
Occasionally I get a board with some bow to it. Will a power feeder help to hold the board down flush with the table to produce and even rabett?
I understand these little jewels mount to the table via bolts and that I will need to drill some holes in my nicely machined unit. This doesn't sound difficult but then again I have not attempted to drill into a table saw table. Any advice?
I would appreciate any and all advice those of you who have experience with a power feeder could give me. :)
I don't have any experience using a power feeder but I have wanted one for a long time. Have heard good things about the ones from Grizzly. Should not be any problem drilling and tapping a couple holes in your table top. If you have access to a bux drill that would be the way to go but if not just use a block with a hole as a guide and then use a tapping block. That way your hole will be square to the table top. Should drill and tap pretty easy.
I've not had any problems with my Grizzly power feeders. However, I am a 'hobbiest' user so I defer to others that have put more hours on them.
Bitternut offers good advice re drilling square. Most saw tops are made from cast iron, which from a drilling perspective is self lubricating. You will want to use cutting oil when tapping though.
Be sure to drill and tap your holes perpindicular to the surface.
I have had several grizzly power feeders. The 1/2 hp is probably what you want. The casting is weak (gas pockets) where the power head mounts to the arm swivel (weld with nickel rod.) If you are doing lots of 16 foot boards, you probably should get some 10 foot skate conveyor for in and out feed to avoid stressing the casting. After replacing 3 I bought a mattison ripsaw. The other feature to get is as many feed gears as possible as the standard speeds are limited. Also 4 feed rollers is better than 3. Replace them with better rubber from acrotech. At one time I set a large pipe lally column with a welded pad for the feeder, next to my saw, and used it for the shaper also. Just moved the tool under the power feeder instead of drilling holes and unbolting/rebolting everything. If you do mount a big feeder to the top of a small table saw or shaper remember it makes the machine really top heavy also. If you bump this with your forklift bad things can happen. Don't ask how I know this.
I have a Grizzly 1/4 hp. but have used it only once (just haven't had time for woodworking). My only complaint in that short usage is that to change speeds, you have to physically change out the gears in the drive. It also means you have a baggie of gears sitting around which, with my shop keeping anyhow, is forever getting lost. To do it over again, I would look for an integrated variable speed as opposed to gear replacement.
Robert when I was shopping for power feeders I looked at both the powermatic and the grizzly. The powermatic is a better unit but the cost put me off. I wasn't going to us it alot just occasional runs of flooring on the shaper and some ripping on the table saw so I went with the grizzly power feeder (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1095). Most folks recomend the 4 wheel over the 3 with 3/4 horse being the minumum horsepower.
I've not decided if I want to drill holes on my table saw, the shaper already had a couple of holes tapped on the back so I'm going to use those for mounting. Be interested to hear what others have done for installing on their saws.
I agree with everything trim4u said except possibly the 4 wheel being better than the 3 wheel...maybe on a table saw.
Not sure if I would tap a hole for a feeder...there heavy and table tops are thin. Maybe just drill and use bolts with large washers.
Once you mount a feeder on a table saw it's crippled for other uses. The lally column trim4u mentioned is a great idea.
When you go up in horsepower on a feeder you also get a longer arm which helps in setting it up....especially with some shaper work. The extra weigh is also an asset...sometimes...I also have experienced the tippness of a shaper with feeder attached...and I didn't bump it with a forklift.
As far as I know feeders are only made by 2, maybe 3 companies. Co-Matic (Taiwan) makes the bulk of the single phase feeders (Grizzly), while Steff Maggi makes the honkin industrial feeders. Holzer...don't know if they are still in business.
QuoteOccasionally I get a board with some bow to it. Will a power feeder help to hold the board down flush with the table to produce and even rabett?
Good question...again the extra weight of the higher horsepower units is an asset. It has taken the bow out of everything I've put through it. Suppose the width of your stock would also have a bearing.
I'm running the 1/4 Grizzly on my shaper but not sure if it has the umph to make the size rabbet you want in one pass or not. I could try it and see, if your interested in the 1/4 hp feeder. Also have a 1 hp Steff Maggi...I'm positive it will bring a 5 hp table saw to it's knees.
Has anybody tried making a power feeder out of a treadmill? I realize these are low HP motors, but I dont see why they wouldnt work, especially since they will move a 24" wide belt with a 300# person standing on it. Since you see these on the side of the road for trash disposal all the time, One should be able to make a variable speed power feeder at a fraction of the cost of any of these.
I have one of the small 1/6 hp feeders on my shaper and you don't want one of them!
I would suggest a 1/2 hp or better. As for the mounting I would hate to drill and tap the new top. I would get a piece of very heavy angle iron and mount on the side of the cabinet just below the top and mount the feeder to this. Holes in the side of the cabinet are less noticable than in the top. Just my opinion. Let us know what you do and how well it works. ;)
Well now that I've tried out my new power feeder would like to tell you that 3/4hp 4 wheel is too big. I think the 3 wheel 1/2hp would be more the size for a shop. I would not bolt it onto the table saw either.
On the plus side mine will take the bow out of a good size log. :D
Norm
That is good information. Do you have any pics? We like pics. :)
Norm..........why do you think it is too big? Beenthere is right, we like pic's. You have been around this forum long enough to make almost 2400 posts so we should not have to be reminding you of that. ;D
:D
Well to be honest I just had it jimmy rigged up. This thing is a brute, about 23"s long and a good 8"s across. Must weigh about a hundred pounds in the feeder assembly alone. I'll go over to my shop today and get some pictures of this beast today.
I'll have to add that I've picked up a few new tools lately. One is the new spiral head planer from grizzly. It's a beast also, 20" unit. Well when I unpacked it there where two allen head bolts laying on the bottom of the crate. I've gone over this thing from top to bottom and cannot find out where they were from. So I'm thinking I'll fire this baby up real cautiously and kind of wait to see what parts come flying off. Fire it up and all seems well but maybe putting a board through it real carefully would be in order. Unbeknowst to me Patty was standing behind me with her camera, she takes a picture with the flash just as I'm feeding that first board through. I must have jumped a foot thinking she's coming apart with sparks and flashes. Patty just stands there like what the hecks the matter with you. When I explained to her why she thought it was a lot funnier than me. :D
Women's sense of humor. ::) ::) ::)
What do you think of the finish from the spiral head, Norm ??
Notice how quiet that thing is ??
Well I ordered the 1hp 4 wheel Grizzly unit. I like overkill :D
I think I am going to mount it to the side of the table with a fabbed angle iron piece. I will decide when I get it.
Norm, taking the bow out of a log sounds intriguing, maybe I will mount it on the mill :D
Btw, Norm, those two bolts probably were meant to hold the crating to the machine. When I got my jointer I found one loose in the box. ::)
Your a man after my own heart Robert. :)
Patty was standing there when I unboxed my power feeder, my eyes kind of opened wide and I utter'd holy shoot that babies big. She came over took a look kind of shook her head and laughed. Course I use a 25 ton backhoe to split firewood with so she wasn't too surprised. ;D
Oh by the way Harold your right on how quiet that new planer is. You can run it without hearing protection it's so quiet and runs pretty smoothly also. The finish is just as good as any straight blade planer I've run.
I have a 1/2 horse Grizzly and use on the table saw and shaper, it's super on the table saw when ya have a bunch of boards to process. I wouldn't drill and tap the top because the cast iorn is too thin and you would only get 3 threads maybe. I drilled holes and use large washers for support under the table top. When drilling the table top make sure to miss the webs on the under side of the table top.
Whoa, Nelly, this puppy is huge :o :o :o
The instructions that came with the powerfeeder called for drilling holes in the table to mount the powerfeeder. I had some issues with doing that. Namely holes in my nice new (albeit stained) table and the fact that once mounted the powerfeeder is basicly there, in the way and not moveable. Here is my solution - is this somewhat like a lolly?
I took a cheap grinder stand like you would find at a made-in-China-who-cares-about-quality-control importer, welded a bit of angle iron to it and clamped it to the edge of the table. What do you think?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10273/powerfeederOpt20.jpg)
Late breaking newsflash----
Upon firing up the powerfeed the welds promptly broke :o
Dang and double Dang!! I was right proud of the welding job - best beads I have laid and ground down to a real nice smooth surface. I think the problem has to do with welding steel to cast iron. I used an E-6013 rod with my Craftsman buzz box. Should I use a different rod with cast iron? I really, really do not want to drill into my table. ???
Can you drill and bolt where you want the welds?
What ties the tool stand to the table saw so they don't move separately?
You could use some steel u-bolts (exhaust or axle mounting) and drill holes in the angle with the same spacing as the u-bolt. Then plug weld the angle to the secured u-bolts. I found the lally column worked the best as it was mounted floor to ceiling independant of the saw or shaper. With a high ceiling you may have to get a longer piece of pipe welded on. I have a lot of pipeline welders in the area near amoco (bp) refinery so the welding wasn't a problem. I also used an old drill press table and column with some sucess after using tapcons to anchor into the floor. But the lally column worked the best.
Quote from: OneWithWood on September 18, 2006, 09:03:48 PM
Whoa, Nelly, this puppy is huge :o :o :o
That was my reaction when I opened up the box too, just goes to prove never take advice from some farm boy in Iowa. :D
I'm guessing the two dissimilar metals was the problem but not being a welder it's just a guess. I think you're on the right track though. I'm mounting mine to the shaper for now but really like your idea for the stand. Good luck. :)
Got to use Ni-rod to weld cast, and the cast should be preheated.
Thanks, guys. I can use bolts to attach the angle iron to the side of the table and the top of the stand. But first I want to try the ni-rod. I am just into welding at the moment :D
The stand is attached to the side of the table using the welding clamps or c-clamps. When I am satisfied with the arrangement I could bolt through the angle and table side. The clamps held fine - it was the weld that failed. Of course if I get a good weld I may find the clamps won't get it. We shall see.
New to this Board. I know that the topic is from 2006, but I found it doing a search looking for something power feeder related.
Have 2 Steff units and was wondering (to the member who built vertical mobile base) if you were successful in later models/versions of your stand?
Thank you!
Funny, I was reading this post like it was a current topic.
Since it has been resurrected, I wanted to add something for the education of all here.
You should never grind/profile a finished weld. All you will be doing is making it weaker and removing the supporting profile of the weld.
If it lays down as a pretty weld then good for you. If not, then it will still be stronger if you just leave it alone.
Think of the profile and strength of the Roman arch...a good weld has the same shape and derives a lot of it's strength from this shape.
If you take the top off of a Roman arch it will be exponentially weaker.
Given I don't weld everyday... my welds are funtional but perhaps not pretty. Two guys I know, different shops, have beautiful welds. But then, thats their bread and butter. Looking forward to putting design of mobile feeder base on CAD then making it.
As far as the 3 wheel single horse feeder, I think Lobo has the cheapest one. Which I'm sure is made by Comatic just like grizzly. They just get different paint, decals, and price tags depending on where they go.
Ya gotta look at tools as tools. If drilling holes in the top makes it more convenient. Then drill holes in the top. I haven't hesitated to drill feeder holes in any of my equipment.
We've been buying tools for the past 2 years with the plan to set up a pretty efficient processing line in the new ( not built yet) sawmill building.
With that in mind we've got:
A Powermatic 16" Planer/ helical cutter=feeds itself
A Delta 8"Jointer/helical cutter=needs power feed
2ea. Powermatic 5hp Shapers=need power feed
2ea. Powermatic 4 wheel 1hp Power feeders
Still looking for a serious 3 to 5 hp tablesaw, possibly a good used straight line rip saw.
I was doing some research last month and came across a guy that has parked his Shaper and Tablesaw back to back so he can leave the feeder on the shaper and just swing it around to use it on the tablesaw.
This has rewritten our plan to utilize this idea.
We'll be setting the feeders on the shapers and doubling them to the jointer and tablesaw. This should allow production run and consistency at all of our tools without having to buy 2 more feeders.
Thought you guys might be able to make use of this clever idea too.
Les
One of my shapers is back to back with my jointer. I dont know if I would do it with a table saw. The tablesaw needs quite a bit of space around it when doing crosscuts on long boards.
Add to that...most tablesaws don't weigh in at almost 600 lbs. That can make stabilizing the feeder(150lbs) a lot more reasonable.
For our future plans we're looking for the right saw to just work at ripping boards to a REAL parallel width. That's why we're now looking into a straight line ripsaw, it would do just that...all day long. Then I can save the tablesaw for actual carpentry/woodworking projects.
Regardless, I've still found that the tablesaw just can't keep up with the size and quantity and end up cussing it more often than not.
HankShop, my welding has improved and the welded angle piece has held up just fine. I continue to use c-clamps to clamp the base to the side of the table saw. The real estate on top of the saw is to valuable to me to sacrifice.
I would like a power feeder for my table and have a question about 3ph feeder. I have a ph converter the
is adjustable to change speeds to what its hooked up to. I have seen some power feeders that are 3ph not
too expensive so what do you guys think?
Sawwood
If you are talking about a variable frequency drive, then that should work fine on a power feeder. Of course the feeder has different speeds already, but it might be nice to be able to fine adjust the perfect feed speed.
Sawwood,
If you have a Phase converter and you're asking if a 3phase feeder is an acceptable option, I see no reason why that wouldn't work.
Phase converters are usually rated to the type of load. So, if it's a good phase converter and you don't have it overloaded with other tools at the same time, you should be fine.
One thing to consider is, a power feeder is a considerable amount of load as it is pretty high gear load. If i recall correctly, this would require a 2:1 or 3:1 load ratio. Thus, a 1hp power feeder would require 2hp to 3hp of rating from the phase converter at full load. Also, a static phase converter doesn't handle the load as readily as a rotary phase converter. i.e: I've got a large Cincinnati gear head metal lathe that is 3ph and this requires a 3:1 rating for the phase converter.
A little research on the net will confirm or deny this for you.
HTH,
Hackberry,
I agree, if you're doing crosscuts it would be problematic.
I'm just planning on this application for production ripping. In that application the piggyback to a shaper would be a non-issue.
Les
Here's how I mounted my new 1/4 HP Grizzly to my 12" table saw. The oak board is laminated 2" thick by 5" wide. I tried a 1" thick board but it flexed too much. It is clamped down with J-bolts. I cut the end off the J so that the radius part of the J would catch the outer lip of the saw table casting.
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10984/IMG_2318~0.JPG)
I have two of those same feeders, I suppose for 10 or more years. I've ran a lot of material with them. I can over feed both my 3 HP table saw, and my 3 HP shaper. Of course its dependent on type of wood and thickness. I invested in the slow speed gear set and fixed that problem.
I even use one of them to resaw on my sawmill.
Tires get slick from age and wear. Buy replacement soft tires from Western Roller.
I was surprised to see the feeder to the left of your fence but a closer look and it appears you can mount it any place you want.
I have a strange question about the power feeder. Could you run one off a generator ? We have a re-saw jig
for the sawmill and we have used a hand winch to pull the lumber threw the saw blade. sure would be good
if we could use a power feeder to push or pull the lumber. We have a generator just would need a power
feeder. Also how big of a feeder would we need, thinking may be a 1hp 4 wheel unit.
Sawwood
I don't see any reason why they cant be ran off a generator. My 1hp three wheel lobo was around $700 new. It works well.
I jist checked and the four wheel is $789. Maybe i should've gotten it.
http://www.johngweber.com/jgw/NW/nw929C.htm