Friend still has a heap of big Mac cypress that she wants rid of, and has a digger at the farm doing track work so it was an opprtunity to get another one on the ground and hauled out to where we can mill it.
Lil did the pictures of course :)
Pick a tree
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080045s.jpg)
A bit of time spent clearing the scrub and fallen limbs around the base. Clearing escape route etc.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080028s.jpg)
Got the scarf cut, nothing flash, the tree is leaning pretty heavy the way I'm falling it, so the scarf is just enough to form a hinge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080040s.jpg)
Lil couldn't get any good shots of the felling cuts because of the scrub and other trees, she was safely way back up on the hill. ;)
On the ground ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080052s.jpg)
A good log, 15m (45ft) of pretty clear timber
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080057s.jpg)
The stump, not the most tidy, but one scarf side was about 5ft off the ground and the back side was about 6". Makes it hard to keep things lined up when bore cutting from each side :-\
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080062s.jpg)
Measuring the stump, 1300mm = about 52". There a few boards to be had in this one ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080060s.jpg)
If you are on broadband have a look at the actuall fall 8)
Youtube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR91YyPKPK0)
Next mission is to complete the limbing and buck it, then get the digger to haul the logs out of the gully.
So more to come.
Cheers
Ian
Nice Job Ianab.......
Another one of those trees that looks like the ones I cut...until ya get the tape measure out and it's twice the size... ;D ;D
Thanks for the lesson Ianab. I have soime questions i think I have been cutting my leaners wrong. I have been cutting Box Elder and practically every on eo f the big ones are leaners. I won't waste time (read: I don't want to embarass myself) explaing how I have been doing it, but I would like more details on how you cut a leaner like that.
First you cut the "pie" as we call it down here I guess the "scarf' is the proper temrinology. Then you insert a plunge cut on the opposite side of the scarf, leaving a few inches of holding wood on the backside, and pushing the blade to exit out of the scarf?
How does the blade keep from getting pinched as it approaches the scarf? Do you hammer wedges into the side of the cut as you go along before the weight of the tree can pinch the blade?
I guess you have to be careful not to leave too little wood on the backside or esle the tree could twist depending on how the weight is distributed on the branches and spin around and attack you.
then the final cut on theholding wood on the backside? With all that tension on this "holding wood" as I'm calling it, i bet just a touch from the blade will snap it right away?
I know there are things online and probably I'm sure right here on the forum for making proper cuts I need to read up on them before I cut down any more bigguns that have those "hidden dangers" that kill people.
thanks for posting this.
Excellent execution Ian. 8) Good to see you in shirt sleeves,enjoying the summer breeze & exercising the Dolmar. ;D It's just freezing outside here. ::)
kevjay check out this thread. ;D
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=9418.0
QuoteFirst you cut the "pie" as we call it down here I guess the "scarf' is the proper temrinology. Then you insert a plunge cut on the opposite side of the scarf, leaving a few inches of holding wood on the backside, and pushing the blade to exit out of the scarf?
How does the blade keep from getting pinched as it approaches the scarf?
Sorta... on the main backcut the bar doesn't exit the wood at all. You still leave normal hinge wood behind the scarf. So at that point the tree is still supported by the hinge (about 4" in this size tree) and the back is held down by the strap at the back (about 6" wide)
Quotethen the final cut on theholding wood on the backside? With all that tension on this "holding wood" as I'm calling it, i bet just a touch from the blade will snap it right away?
Yup... the holding strap at the back is under a LOT of tension. But it's a simple cut to release it, then get the heck out of the way :D Once you cut that, the tree starts moving right away.
The advantage of this method is that you pretty much remove the chance of a barberchair , which is the main worry in leaning trees. It gives you the chance to set up your hinge wood properly, before the tree thinks about falling. Then do one small cut from about the safest possible place and over she goes.
I have put some notes on the stump picture, hopefully that explains better.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080062text.jpg)
These are Leewee's pictures from the post he refered to, they explain the theory better.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/lewforwardleanerw.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/lewforwardleanerx.jpg)
Cheers
Ian
I'll admit, you had me 'stumped' till I saw those pictures :D
those pictures make it look easy!
It's not! :o
Gave it a try for the first time on the big ugly down in OK. ;D
I wasn't cutting a leaner, but I've been wanting to try the bore cut.
I was able to get the bar to just poke through the other side of the tree, just ahead of the holding strap so I would have a guide.
Reinserted the bar on the other side at that little cut, but still managed to miscut. :-[
Also didn't have any wedges with me and as there was no lean to the tree, it sat down on the bar when I cut the holding strap. ::)
I'm looking forward to trying that cut again, when the option presents itself.
That ought to make a wack of boards.
You making furniture for the baby's room?
Thanks Ianab, that is a great illustration. I will just go ahead and fess up on how I've been cutting them. They aren't as big as yours but they are fairly severe leaners most of them, so they don't just kind of "stand there" a few seconds for you, and I've had a few times where it wasn't a close call necessarily, but I just never feel right about the way I've been doing it.
All I have been doing is making the scarf cut in the front and then making the back cut from the back straight through, just below the level of the center of the scarf cut. It usually causes too much tear out in the center of the tree because the thing takes off before I can get the blade plumb through. At least, I don't hang around long enough to put it all the way through.
I'm gonna use your method next time. Thanks for the lesson.
Don't cut the hinge wood all the way through. If you have no hinge for control as it falls, you are leaving fate to the wind, so to speak.
Quote from: Part_Timer on December 10, 2006, 10:26:09 PM
That ought to make a wack of boards.
You making furniture for the baby's room?
Baby furniture is pretty much completed, but that should replenish the wood stash again ;D
I got the tree bucked into 3 logs today and did some rough measurements and put them thru the forum calculator... 2500 Bd ft :o
The log was still 31" at 42 ft up where the first big crotch was. I can cut all the lower grade stuff out as garden sleepers for the owner and she will pay for the digger to move the logs, but hopefully I get about 2000 bdft of good timber.
I think I wil have payed for it in sweat though, summer seems to have started here 8)
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: Ianab on December 11, 2006, 12:05:42 AM
summer seems to have started here 8)
Ya, here too... :-X
ian,
nice job on the fall, I've not tried that bore technique but a couple of times, you carried it out to perfection.....look forward to seeing more pictures of the lumber as you get it milled
steve
Steve
It's not as perfect as it looks, the plunge cuts didn't exactly meet up, but they were close enough that the trees weight just rips them into shape ;) Even if the opposing plunge cuts miss by an inch.. it doesn't actually matter. The foward lean just rips it apart, and you are well out of the danger zone taking large steps in the opposite direction as this happens
Just for Jeff....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/naki_summer.jpg)
View from Sharons driveway, Cresco turboprop plane is dropping fert on the neighbours place. But the green and blue are the general idea ;D
Ian
Nice job and good pictures. 8)
At first the tree looked like it was much smaller in diameter than it actually was. Over 4 feet in diameter is a large tree. I have an ash tree next to the barn that is close to that size which really puts things in to perspective.
The stump looks very good considering the size of the tree and the slope you had to work on. Limbing out a tree that size is going to take a few minutes. :)
Randy
Great picture, from the video it sounded pretty windy.
Just got back from the farm after fishing the logs out of the scrub.
The but log was about all the 12 ton digger could manage :o
Going in for the number 3 log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5562s.jpg)
Number 2 was a bit of a struggle as the two logs where straddling the stream and we had to break the last bit of holding wood with the digger.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/000_0708s.jpg)
The butt log was bucked a little shorter to keep it's weight down... a good thing as it turned out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/000_0709s.jpg)
The two best logs 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/000_0710s.jpg)
Now... get the mill out there and cut them up :)
Ian
Great pics Ian. 8) You get a better idea of the size of the tree in that last pic. :o
Love that scenery. 8)
great pics Ian,
keep em coming 8)
steve
Well, some progress has been made ::)
Between the annoying breakdowns...
We went to go sawing on Friday and I test started the saw before we left, of course the cord wouldn't retract. 1.2 hour trip into town and luckily the local dealer had one in stock, half an hour home and I was abvle to get the thing going. That was OK, we went and milled for an hour or so and chewed up the drive belt ::) Loaded up what we had and called it a day, got a new drive belt this morning and hit it again in the afternoon. Finsihed the smallest log (3rd one up) and moved the mill down the hill to the Big Kahuna. Got set up opened the log and then noticed the top cover on the saw jumping around. Nothing serious, just a looses screw, but it's way the heck down under the carby and I didnt have an allen key that will reach ::) Anyway it was getting late so we called it a day and hauled some more wood and firewood slabs home.
The number 3 log was a bit rough, so we cut mostly 6x4 landscapeing timbers from that, and some 1 and 2 X from the better sections.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080261s.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080262s.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080266s.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/P1080268s.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/p1080270s.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/p1080273s.jpg)
Ian
8) Great pictures Ian.
Nice Whack O Lumber. 8)
Quite the nice Whack O' Lumber: Blessed are the swingblades...
That's some tree Ian more than twice the diameter of the one that's currently giving me fits. I wish I could get a few FF folks to talk some sense into my father he wants to just slice straight in on the back side and let gravity take it from there. ::)
I'm half tempted to let him do in the hopes that his saw doesn't survive but he does. He's managed to turn several trunks I set aside for timber into firewood and kill a bunch of healthy up and comers "because they're just brush".
I thought I would try your cut today on a big red oak. I didn't too very well I don't think. I did lay it where I wanted, but my cuts weren't as accurate as I would like.
A big red oak but the top still has a bunch you can't see.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/BigRed.jpg)
Looks good so far, but . . . . . . .
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/Notch.jpg)
Not exactly level would ya say. ::)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/Plunge.jpg)
Pulling the plunge toward the back
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/PlungeII.jpg)
It didn't land on me, the skid steer, or the deer blind so i guess I passed; barely.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/EndResults.jpg)
This is not me doing a freehand upcut on a big limb with a big, heavy chainsaw. We all know that is impossible for a little guy. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12394/FreehandUpcut.jpg)
i guess it turned out okay. the main log was way too much for my little skid steer buyt I got it loaded anyway by hefting one end at a time, with alot of prayer added for good measure.
So that was my first leaner using that method. I like it! Thanks ianab and all who contributed. i will practice and get better.
Quote from: kevjay on December 17, 2006, 12:33:27 AM
We all know that is impossible for a little guy. :D
But we do it anyways don't we. ;D
QuoteIt didn't land on me, the skid steer, or the deer blind so i guess I passed
Thats the main thing ;D
I have found you have a fair bit of leeway in getting the main cuts to line up, they dont actually HAVE to be exact. As long as they completely bypass each other reasonably close the little bit of fibre will just break off.
Anyway, the method is pretty safe, the tree did what you expected and landed in the right place, so I'd call it a success too ;)
Cheers
Ian
Geez Ian, I watched the vid, but it took forever. You woulda thought it was a 50" plus tree or something with the time it took....oh, it was.
Good job. Have fun milling that one up. That should replenish the stack a bit.
Mark
Got the saw all back together... one loose screw ::)
Had to take off the carby to get at that...
Had to take off the top handle to get the carby off...
Anyway I go the screw back in.. with a drop of loctite to keep it there ;D
Lubing the noisey clutch bearing it a whole other story
Anyway I got an afternoon of milling in :)
This is the big log opened up, there are a few more bark inclusions than I would like, but I was able to cut around them and get some really nice boards. The log was actually too big to double cut boards :(
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5570s.jpg)
This is one of the many clear 8x1s I cut out of it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5566s.jpg)
Closeup of the grain. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5567s.jpg)
The little trailer has a fair load on ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5577s.jpg)
and thats about 1/3 of the log sawed 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/p1080278s.jpg)
Cheers
Ian
Ian,
that is some beautiful wood, thank's for the pic's
steve
Ian,
would it be do able to roll the log up on ti's side now to double cut and get som of those wide boards? LeeB
Quote from: LeeB on December 19, 2006, 02:19:43 AM
Ian,
would it be do able to roll the log up on ti's side now to double cut and get som of those wide boards? LeeB
That would work if we still had the excavator on site ::)
I'm guessing I have whittled the log down to about 2 ton now, even my big cant hook aint going to make much impression on it :D
I could turn the mill around on the rails, but because of the bark inclusions I'm not going to get clear wide boards. So I'm thinking that some carefull cutting will give me the best results cutting clear 4, 6 and 8" boards, and taking out the dodgy sections in 2x1s that I can still use as shorts.
Anyway the rain seems to have set in tonight for a couple of days. It was refreshing loading the boards in the light rain. Wasn't overly hot today, but humidity was in the 90s, so when the rain started it was rather nice.
Ian
Hi Ian,
well I had a chance to utilize the falling technique discussed in this post, It was a doug fir about 24" DBH. My 28" bar went through so I didn't have to cut in from both sides. Everything went well and it fell were I wanted it to ( didn't crush the neighbors grage 8) ) I do have a quick question, I noticed in your picture that the cut to release the holding strap is lower than your back cut, I cut mine the same way and it worked ok, I was wondering if this is normal or should the cut be more aligned with the back cut? Just curious. Sorry no pictures >:(
Steve
QuoteI noticed in your picture that the cut to release the holding strap is lower than your back cut, I cut mine the same way and it worked ok
Yup cut the holding strap a little below the main cut. If you cut above the saw could get caught in the cut as tree goes over and you dont want to be fighting with the tree for possesion of your saw at that time :D
Cutting below also seem to reduce fibre pull from the log, there is more tendancy for the wood to shear off between to 2 cuts, instead off just pulling out the last bit of fibre as it releases.
Cheers
Ian
Thanks,
that's kinda the way I had it figured
cut_tree
These are the modifications you might consider for that same red oak.
#1 having a larger face cut lower using the humboldt notch to save wood and reduce fiber pull.
#2 a scarf below the hinge wood to reduce fiber pull from the stump.
#3 the bore.
#4 cutting the back strap.
You can also bore the middle out of the hinge to reduce fiber pull.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/kevjay.PNG)
That is an excellent diagram. Now I know what a humboldt notch is. :D
Me too. 8) 8) 8) 8) Now I can quit usin that "Knucklehead Notch". ;D ;D ;D
Thanks Kev I has to study that in case you give me a pop quiz. I take the diagram into the bush next time. smiley_thumbsup
Rule of thumb, how big (open and deep) should a notch be ???
Notch should be deep enough to give you a hinge width that is 80% of the DBH. Hinge thickness should be 10% of DBH. This is what we were taught in the GOL classes. Certain woods or conditions may require adjustment of these figures.
The apex where the two face cuts meet is where the fiber will pull the wood out of the hinge from a good saw log.
You don't want the notch closing too early because when it does the fiber gets yanked out of the tree.
In the large coastal redwoods they would put a gap at the apex which would allow the fibers to bend over and break off rather than pull out.
That's why an open face notch will keep the tree on the stump, the apex isn't in a pinch and the fibers bend rather than break.
The depth can be determined by what you want the tree to do.
The further back you place the hinge the less leverage will be required to lift it but you want to be careful once past the half way point.
The general rule is placing the hinge at 1/3 to 1/2 the trees diameter.
The deeper you go with the hinge up to half the diameter is where the most holding wood will be across the stump.
Finished sawing up the logs today.
The logs had a lot of bark inclusions that stuffed up the wide table slabs, but I did get this one cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5620s.jpg)
Had to get a couple of teenagers to help haul it up the hill to the trailer though.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5622s.jpg)
Lil is on light duties at the moment, short boards only ;) About 6 weeks to go ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/108_5624s.jpg)
I had to drag the 14' 6x4 landscaping timbers off the mill by myself today. I needed a rest after that ;)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/100_5673s.jpg)
But at least it's summer here 8)
Cheers
Ian
Why is it that all the biggest prettiest stuff is DOWNHILL from the truck-trailer ??
Ever notice that ?? ::) ::) ;D
Nice lookin lumber, Ian. Careful workin Lil too much. ;) ;D ;D
There is a belief, today, that unborns learn by listening to the outside. They know Mom and Dad and even some others when they are born. There are sounds that they like and sounds that they don't. Soothing music is common to keep them from kicking. Of Course, there is always someone like me that pictures them dancing, not kicking.
I'm wondering what this one thinks of chainsaws and sawmills? You may have to have a recording so that the little rascal feels at home. :D :D
I'm open to any ideas on how to fell this not so big leaner.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12870/LBirch01_2.jpg)
It has a few issues: Here's the first 6' of tree where my open faced notch should go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12870/LBirch03_2.jpg)
and this is my holding wood. ::)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12870/LBirch02_2.jpg)
I figure this is a good one to wrap with a chain.
Nothing says you have to cut it off at the ground. I think I would start at about my armpits. I would have said stomach, but I've shrunk a bunch.
QuoteI'm wondering what this one thinks of chainsaws and sawmills? You may have to have a recording so that the little rascal feels at home
Baby definately reacts to the chainsaw and mill. Lil says there is a few good kicks when they start up, and then all calm again once they are running :D
Maybe he's going to need a chainsaw 'music box' to get him to sleep ;)
Cheers
Ian
Long as your not scared of old heavy metal you could play this one from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52p9jc-gOo
Why, he wasn't wearing any personal safety equipment! :o What kind of message is that sending to our young children? >:( ;D
Tom told me, when I showed that to him yesterday, if I posted it, thats the first thing that would be said. :D
He was wearing Pajamas, then shirtless, then jean shirt, then Pajamas again, then shirtless again and Jean shirt once more. :D
My favorite line:
I'm a lumberjacker baby, since my chain saw you. 8)
COME ON GUYS!!!!!!!!
He doesnt need anymore encouragement! - Just ask him about the saxophone that baby got for christmas. :D :D :D
(and as I sit here with the speakers up and the lumberjack song on in the background - guess whose kicking up a storm - will like Tom said - maybe its dancing in there!) ;D
LIL
One last wood gloat ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/000_0714s.jpg)
Thats all the good stuff, mostly cut as 1x and 2x, a couple of live edge table slabs and assorted odd sizes. A lot of it is nice clear timber. Anyway, a couple of months stacked there and then I'll move it into the shed to finish drying.
Cheers
Ian
Assuming it is firewood. On that birch tree (?) I would tie a cable way up high in the tree and see if I could pull it down with my 4x4 first since it looks rotted at the base. If that did not work, I would relieve the tension, make an large degree but shallow (1/4 way) open face notch waist height, start a backcut about one inch heigher then the notch, cut it about 1/4 way through, exit, and wait for it to fall. Might take a minute or two.
Personally, I wrap all rotted leaners with chains to prevent barberchairing. I don't try plunge cutting in rotted leaners since you never know how much hinge wood you will actually have.
I usually just make the above face cut, back cut, and if it does not fall by gravity after a minute or two I pull it down with the truck/van.
I usually pull with a block so I am not walking parallel with the tree, I am walking away from it to my truck at an angle. If you rock a leaning rotted tree with a face cut and back cut, the fiber usually breaks and the tree comes down with you 80 feet away from the trunk in the opposite direction.
My advice would be watch out for spring boards since I would not go clear any saplings in its way since it could fall at any moment.
That's a nice whack of wood but don't you get the same question from folks that visit...."what ya gonna do with all that wood!"
My theory is you can never have too much wood stashed. ;D
Raphael;
With the stump rot the holding wood might pull out on a bore cut depending on how bad it is.
If it looks good a bore will work.
If there's any doubt I would cut a taper from the outside towards the hinge wood and go in fast at high rpm from the back for felling the tree.
If you hesitate in the back cut it could split out.
If you are really concerned then a rope placed high in the tree and tensioned from the back will hold the weight and act as a guy while you cut it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/stress.PNG)
Kevin - et.al.
Thanks for the input, that's pretty much the approach I've been figuring on. It could be firewood or it may useful timber(s). It looks to be solid above 7 or 8 feet but no way of telling until it's on the ground. If its good I'll mill it a full 16'+ and see what the tension does, I'm hoping for one flat plane so I can make it into my last 14' joist but if it's too willful may become a pair of arched 8' tie beams for my front entry.
Spring boards shouldn't be a problem as it's leaning towards open ground (over a well travelled path)... One brush pile directly below the trunk and a couple of stunted Black Walnuts out where the crown will land.
You may discover some bad stress in any lumber taken from a tree like that but no way to know without opening it up.
Good luck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12870/LBirch04_2.jpg)
My birch tree dropped right on the ideal line (between the rock and brush piles), of course I didn't have my camera. ::)
Only casualties were two Black Walnut limbs, one from the left row and one from the right.
I put a nice open face notch barely ~2½" deep and could have made the back cut with a pen knife. I heard the first pop just as I went to make the sap cuts so I shifted slightly, put an inch deep slice on the back side, killed the saw and backed away. I'd chained the trunk but I don't think there was enough real wood left to barber chair, no joist in this tree, I cut off a half dozen fireplace lengths before the pith became solid and it's still got a channel of rot climbing one side an inch below the bark. On the axel I've got a straight 10' log that's 80% lumber 20% punk at the butt and solid at the top. I also saved 3 shorter pieces with crotches to play with on my WWM (when I have some free time).
Glad to hear everything went well on the take down. :) They do get the blood pump pounding don't they. 8)
Hey, that is great. 10 feet is better then no feet :-)
Looks like miltary tires on the arch?
Quote from: rebocardo on January 03, 2007, 03:42:49 PM
Looks like miltary tires on the arch?
They could very well be, the assembly's vehicle of origin is unknown.
But there is a faded pin stripe on the wheel so I'm guessing a civillian ¾ or 1 ton truck from the late 40's early 50's.
Quote from: Furby on December 10, 2006, 08:33:28 PM
It's not! :o
Gave it a try for the first time on the big ugly down in OK. ;D
I wasn't cutting a leaner, but I've been wanting to try the bore cut.
I was able to get the bar to just poke through the other side of the tree, just ahead of the holding strap so I would have a guide.
Reinserted the bar on the other side at that little cut, but still managed to miscut. :-[
Also didn't have any wedges with me and as there was no lean to the tree, it sat down on the bar when I cut the holding strap. ::)
I'm looking forward to trying that cut again, when the option presents itself.
3Also didn't have any wedges with me...."
always carry wedges !