It's time to bolt on the Slabber Bar and make tables. Any helpful advice on best way to approach the task of Slabbing ?? I have been contacted by others wanting info on how I rigged up, so, this will benefit others as well.
Is there a "Best" RPM ??
Saw in both directions, or pull or push only ??
How much lube and what kind ??
Ever have chain break ??
How hard to feed with 20 HP ??
?????????????????????????????
I've only used one a couple of times but here is what Burlkraft and I saw using his.
The best rpm is full out
we only pushed but did notice that if you push hard and try to hog it it will make lines on the slab. If you just keep the pressure on the bar and let it do the work they come off very smooth.
we used stihl bar oil and just let it drip steady on it.
20 hp should be fine just a bit slower than my 25. It took us 5-7 minutes to cut a slab 36" wide by 14' long out of white oak.
The one thing we did do was keep putting wedges in both sides untill we got past the middle then pulled all of the first ones out. then my son stood on the end of the slab so that when the chain cut through the end the middle wedges were a pivit point and the slab popped up and out of the way of the chain so we didn't have to worry about knocking the chain off..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12445/Slaber%20Working.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12445/Move%20that%20slab.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12445/A%20little%20more.jpg)
I have a slabbing attachment for my Peterson ASM and a few months ago I slabbed out a 45" white oak. The log was quite dry and I took 3" slabs out of it. It was slow going, it took about 2 hours to slab the entire log. My mill is set at about 3400 rpms and the more HP you have the better, 20 HP is fine, just make sure you go full out and push so the engine is working hard but not lugging, just keep your rpm up in the powerband. Steady drip on the oil flow, use the proper oil depending on temperture. I'm not sure what kind of mill you have but make sure you have it anchored as solidly as you can as my mill tended to shake side to side depending on the hardness of the log. It really came out nice though. Make sure you use your metal detector every pass or at least every other pass and keep your chain sharp.
Rathbone
Here's the logs. Side sway is very possible.I have the WPF Peterson. This high, it WILL sway. It does with the 8" blade. ::) ::)
This log will be made into slabs, and other lumber for legs, columns, door frames, etc.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10330/Pilon5.jpg)
This one is over 6' high. ;) ;D ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10330/Pilon4.jpg)
Out of sight on the other side, is another chunk of limb. It should make good slabs. I'm thinking on turning the short length of log facing up, and sawing slightly across and down the whole 9' length of the hidden limb and trunk, as 1 slice ??? Suggestions ???
Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on December 22, 2006, 12:02:20 PM
Suggestions ???
Yup, labourers, lot's and lot's of labourers...... :D
Oh, and a shady tree ta sit under while ya watch 'em work ta make sure they're doin' it right. ;D
Mebbe even a cold glass of lemonade, but not too much ice or you'll get a brain freeze. ::)
It's probably 150' and uphill, to where we can load the pieces on the truck ???
I don't know anything about slabbers but I am slobbering a little on the keyboard in anticipation of what's inside. :D
Yeah...What Part_Timer said..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Harold,
With logs that size, it would be best to have two people pushing the mill. One on each side keeping constant pressure but not bogging the engine.
I have not tried this but Dan Shade has told me that shims work better than wedges. Dan has cut lots of slabs with his Alaskan, I have only used a WPF slabber. Just wanted to throw that out there for consideration. I am sure Dan will chime in with his thoughts.
For that big crotch, do like you are saying lay that beast so you get the good grain pattern. I've got one like that that I am still trying to figure out how to mill it, It's 7' wide and I do not want to trim the edges and I do not have the $4K to buy power heads and a double head bar..... :-[
Like stated above, anchor the rails. when you get in to a full width cut the rails will slide to the right on you and the mill will bind on the bar supports. I used my tractor, I backed it up to the rails locked the brakes, dropped the bucket and it sat there.
MY WPF is the 10" and when I get the power head up around shoulder height it wobbles. I think this is just the way it is; a lot of weight suspended up high.
Mark
Well Mark, cheer up. My first slabbing mill will be capable of 7 feet, or at least that is the plan. The LogRites have a big project in mind for it. Maryland is not too far of a stretch...
Harold, you need to take a look at the current WPFs and make a cross brace like they are equipped with. Totally eliminates the side sway in the small frame WPF.
Captain
Mornin Cap'n. Cross brace for the tracks ?? That's where I get the sway. Usually take 2 bites per cut, until I can take deep vertical cuts with the Disk Blade.
I have thought REAL hard about extending the frame to do wider cuts on larger logs. Problem is handling wood in bad locations. Not a lot of trees left in open flat fields down here. ??? ::)
FDH,
As far as chain breaking I have worried of this also but never had a problem. You should be able to cut in both directions and then you will evenly wear the bar.
As far as oil, the more the better to an extent. If the bar is crazy long then use an auxilary oiler. My set up is "homebrewed", yours may already have the oiling required.
Sounds like fun in the jungle. Good luck.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/Ooak5.jpg)
Reid,
I have not seen your setup before, but had the same basic idea.
I have two 18" #70 I beams (overkill but I bought them right) set aside to join together make an overdead like yours on which to mount my bandsaw powerhead. It will have a probably 32' net saw length capability. I never thought of mounting a chainsaw mill on it.
How did you do it. Is that channel or barstock with a braket that attaches to each 385?
Right now, no oiler. I plan to tiewrap a 1quart plastic bottle, with snout on it, upside down, so the tube directs the oil to the bar. Bar is 60". Do I need oil on both ends ?? Does the oil affect the wood ??
Nice setup, Reid. How long is your bar ??
Kevjay,
It is 1" or 1 1/4" SS all thread. The powerheads are 394's. I will be electrifying the unit in the future. I hate the noise / fumes and such. It runs 40'.
FDH,
As far as oils affecting the wood, I have not had that problem. You would be surfacing the slabs at some point right? The bar is just over 5'.
I have collected a number of bandsaw wheel pairs to eventually convert to a blade ( 30", 36", 54") but for now the chainsaw works
FDH
The stock oiler hangs in a small bracket on the far side and drips oil just past the nose of the bar. It's just a small bottle hung upside down with a small ball valve to control the flow. Not much of nothin to make one.
Thanks P_T. Kinda figgered sumpin like dat. ;D
I been considerin lektrik drive, myself.
Thanks Reid, awesome setup.
I just wondered if it was permissible to go through the bar with the allthreads or should I fab a bracket for the powerhead?
hahaha quart bottle, that's funny. If it's possible, put a nipple in the bottom of a gallon jug and run a hose to your bar. Fill that bottle out of another with a funnel. A quart doesn't last long when you are milling like that. Get some big hose clamps or zip ties and anchor that thing. Put a shot off valve in and you'll be good to go. I know it's easier to anchor the quart bottle, but it just won't last long enough.
::) ::) I WAS figgerin on cutting the bottom, to make like a "Flapper" lid. Then, I can just add to it as needed ::) ::) ;D :D :D :D
I was kind of hanging low, hoping to learn something :)
I've used an alaskan a bit with my 066, but many here have a lot more experience.
oil is a good thing, i'd use an auxiliary oiler, sharp chains are everything too. with that hard wood, you may want to sharpen every pass, maybe halfway through a pass...
I don't have much to add, milling those big logs is different than the little logs. using the spacers vice wedges is mainly if you are going to roll up the log and take a second cut to quarter the log. You also don't have to be concerned of a flat spacer pushing back out of the kerf, either.
Did you make your slabber, Harold? where did you find your bar? i've been scheming a huge slabber for quite some time.... the problem is a track, you guys with peterson's are halfway there!
Shoot Dan, tracks are no problem at all....
Call Posner's and have some 1.5" angle iron delivered and you got tracks. I have some extra rollers when you are ready.
I have cleared and leveled a pad for a stationary milling site. I'll set up 40' of tracks for the power head, this way my Peterson tracks will stay in the trailer for mobile jobs. I even took the time to clear out 4 sites for lumber stacks. Now all material is stacked and stickered as it comes of the saw. Now if I just had a 2 sided planer to surface it before it was stickered....Some day.
Mark
Why would you surface it before you sticker it. ???
PT,
There has been much debate about planing &/or jointing (dressing the edge) green wood prior to stickering; a.k.a. pre-surfacing. I'll just try to throw some general concerns out there because my view lack experience whci is the most important thing you look for in this kind of consideration. Mine is book knowledge, and incomplete ate that but I do think I can offer some valid points until someone else comes along with imperical data. :P
I think the discussion has to start with species. Some species lend themselves to pre-surfacing much more than others. I think sycamore and sweetgum for example, are two bad choices for candidates of pre-surfacing. Unless you douse them with Holy Water, cross your fingers & toes, and appease the Sitcker Gods, then the movement you'll see with those two species will necessitate more surfacing one they are dry to take out the cupping/twisting, and then you probably have to straight-edge a good portion anyway but of course that doesn't affect surfacing just jointing. So for species with lots of movement it means losing thickness you probably didn't allow for in the rough cut.
Now qtr sawn sycamore, doesn't move as much so now you have to ask Arky and guys who have lots of experience with that what is the deal on that.
Of course there are alot of species that move more than what are cinsidered the more stable ones.
Presurfacing has lots of benefits though. It reduces checking, supposedly gives the wood increased strength once dry, and reduces drying time according to some but not others.
The only experience that I have that I can tell you for certain is a fact, is that when you plane green lumber, the chips pile up inside the planer alot more than when dry because they are MUCH heavier. I have been planing some WET box elder and my 2HP dust collector is not strong enough to keep the chipos form liling up inside the planer. I have to figure something else out on this.
I can send you some links to other articles which discuss this in detail. I have a big box full of articles i have printed off the web, many from here many form elsewhere that discuss this and other relevant topics on green wood. There is alot to know about it and I don't know much. :-\ :P :P :P
PT,
Kevjay covered most of the benifits. Here is what I was taught in Kiln Operators School.
Presurfacing gives you material of consistant thickness and allows for uniform drying. It basically cleans the saw dust and dirt off the boards allowing the moisture to come out in a uniform mannor.
All of this is supose to provide a better grade of material out of the kiln.
My instructors stressed quality, a quality product will always sell.
Mark
A filler cut in the top would definately be a good idea. If it's possible, I'd still run a gallon jug or half gallon. A quart really is too small. You'll notice that you have to keep filling it, even during the cut in big wood.
Reckon how many Gallons it will take, to cut each log ??? Might hafta raise the price of the slabs. 8) 8) 8)
We used about a quart of Stihl summer blend chain oil fer all them slabs we cut at Part_timer's this summer....
How many ?? What size ?? How hard ?? What kinda wood ??
Harold....PT's post at the begining of this thread was the day I took my slabber down ta his place for his demo day.
There's some pictures there.....I'm the one that was doin' all the work.... :D :D :D
It was big oak...It was green....The slabs was heavy.....It was hot too.....Just like yer gonna be... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Now that I think about it...if ya go ta PT's gallery he's got more pictures there and one was of the bottle and the hose and the wire and duct tape rig we made cuz I didn't have the bolt that the bottle hooks to. I suppose it was running like a drip every 2 or 3 seconds or so. We cut 3 slabs I believe and the bottle was about half full yet....it tipped over on the way home in the back of the truck..... >:( >:( >:( So we cudda made 6 cuts with a quart....Yer touchin' up chain by then anyway....ya wanna keep up with that 10' chain or that becomes a big job too..... :-\ :-\ :-\
Aww, C'mon Steve. There's only 27 cutters in that entire loop of chain.
My first small frame clip on slabber will be up and running this weekend, paint is drying right now. Looks like 44" of slabbing capability, 8.5" thick.
Captain
There's a LOT more than 27 cutters on MY chain ::) ::)
I bought Ripping chain, too ::) ::) I think there is 162 or so drive links ???
I figger 42" of cut, so, I guess we done OK for not knowing what we were doing, EH ???
I don't have a way to connect the tube to the handle, so, it's gonna be interesting. ::) ;D ;D ;D
I can't even count ta 27 cuz I run otta fingers and toes..... :D :D :D
I got a Sthil chain that looks like it's got a hundred..... :o :o :o
Anyone offering to sharpen my crosscut chain for the 72" bar ???
It takes the same amount of time to sharpen a chain as it does to dull it ::) ;D
Sounds like it's time for grinder ;) :) 8)
Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on December 27, 2006, 07:59:07 PM
It takes the same amount of time to sharpen a chain as it does to dull it ::) ;D
You must be DanG fast at sharpenin' them chains..... :D :D :D :D
Was thinking the same thing!
Had to go count them and I think there are 63 cutters on those chains. :'(
Full size slabbers are 196 DL of .404 Ripping Chain. This has a triple skip sequence. 27 cutters is the average in circumference...need all that "skip" to carry the "chip".
Not sure of the DL count on the Small Frame slabbing attachment yet...cutting chains tomorrow. I'll post pics this weekend of it in use. Soon will have small (standard WPF) and large frame (ATS and Large Frame 8", 10" WPF, ASM) versions available for sale.
Captain
Could be 196. My Spanish numbers are very bad. ::) ::) ::) ;D
You saying I gotta grind off a BUNCH of them cutters ??
If you're cutting wide, yes. Your chain speed is about 1/4 of the normal chain saw, and you're in a really wide cut. Those chips need somewhere to go.
Captain
Kevjay/Ga_Boy I understand now. That makes sence. If I take the saw marks off the boards there is a more even surface area for the moisture to move from and all the boards in the stack have that same amount of area making for a more even draw in the kiln?
FDH Green, white oak 36" or so wide and 14' long. They are dtying quite nicely in the garage. Yep Burlkraft was the only one working, but hay he kept expecting us to feed him. ;D ;)
Had a few nice days, couple weeks ago, then Rain returned. Want to start Slabbing this week, but, rain means bad roads to the milling site. Got 12,000 bdft of sawn lumber sitting on sticks in the open that we can't get hauled out. ::) ::)
I know what ya mean about the rain. My mill has 3" of water around it right now.
PT, Just think if that was snow. :o
It is raining here again too. Just as the ground starts to dry up around the yard it rains again. Forget logging in the woods. I do not even want to fell timber as I am not sure when I can get in to get it out either. ::)
Farmerdoug
I'm in the same boat with you fellers. Can't mill at all and there's rain in the forecast most of all next week.
I need to pour two acres of concrete to slove it once and for all. Someone do the math on that one. 2 acres times $70 a yard.
$0.86 a square foot, or $75,300 ::) (about dat if 4" thick)
I went with 6" slab to handle the weight of logs and equipment just a little better and came up in the neighborhood of $112,910.00, so we are in the same ballpark BT. ;)
Man I wish I could get two acres worth of 4" slab for $75K I would jump all over that! 8)
Around here a finished 4" slab is running $5.00 - $5.50 a square foot.
If we figure ou howany square feet are in 2 acres and multiply that times say $4.50 because of the price break the concrete company will give us then we are going to be closer to what it would actually cost to eliminate the need for mowing, and waiting days for the wind to dry our yard enough to do something more than shopwork. ::)
43,560 sq ft = 1 acre.
X 2 = 87,120
X $4.50 = $392,040.00
Just write a check drawn on the river bank. ;)
That sounds more like it. Unfortunately. >:( Looks like I need to keep the shredder blades sharp ;)
So kevjay, for $75,000 worth of concrete (using your figure of $70 a yard) you expect to pay someone an additional $317,000 to put it down and finish it? ???
:)
I'll take that job!
Can be there next week!
What's pavement cost?
Be a lot cheaper then concrete.
Can still do important areas with concrete. ;)
I've been threatening to dump golf ball sized rock all over the logyard and mill area. It's only about a 1/4 acre so, at least it would be cheaper than concrete. I think :)
Farmer Doug, I don't know how much snow is in all this rain but I bet it would be deep enough we wouldn't be able to work in it either. Oh well at least it beats -30. I am making some good progress cleaning the shop and working on the upstairs addition. Katie is happy about the upstairs and shop so as long as she's happy I guess I have it made. :) :)
Just have some crushed concrete hauled in PT. ;)
Furby I should but I will be shutting the mill down for the next year or so. I'm going to mill for my own use and my buddy John but that is it. I'm also only going to sell retail to one of my real good customers. I got promoted "railroaded" at work a couple of weeks ago and it's been a rollercoaster ride. Up at 5 and home at 5-6 or so. Not much time in there for the mill. I have 2 jobs to finish and have sent the rest to other mills close by that I trust ot do a good job. I officially pulled the plug to new jobs Jan. 1st. Maybe I can get back into it when I get things straightened out at work and things are running smoother. I still have about 20 logs to finish for John and I, so lots still to do but only on weekends now. I still have to cut all that pine up for the chicken coup