After a long wait I got it! First time out in late Nov. Health inspector hit rock on test bores so he requested a backhoe. After all the rain we've had delaying I finally got an excavator on sight Fri. After about 2 hours of me digging 8 holes and him scratching his head he finally saw some dirt he thought he could live with and gave me the OK.
Now I have a lot more digging to do. He wants 10-70' lines. 1500 gal tank with a splitter and 2 distribution boxes. Won't be cheap or easy to install but at least I avoided a pump back system or expensive engineering fees.
Have any of you installed gravelless systems such as the Infiltrator system? It would save me hauling a lot of gravel which is expensive where I am at due to the distance from the gravel pit (40 mi.) and delivery charges. Don't know what the cost difference would be.
The driveway is in and the foundation is excavated. This week I should get plan approval and talk to the well driller. Things are beginning to move!
Woo hooo....... Good job Bob. We used a ~10" sock pipe. It worked well. They required us to back fill around it with sand but when the soil was sandy they let us fill with the dirt from the trenches. No gravel. Let me know when things get moving. We will try and come for a few days and help out.
joel
Great news about the septic... We wound up with a fully engineered pumping system that placed out leach fields over 500ft. from our tanks. About triple the cost of a simple gravity setup. ::) No gravel here either just lots of engineered septic sand.
I think the only thing holding the State of CT together is red tape so to my point of view your work is over and now the real fun begins. Enjoy the process and post lots of pictures. ;)
Some of the counties in Michigan approve the use of infiltrator systems. In sandy soil conditions conditions they seem to work well. I believe the materials cost is very similar to that of conventional tile and gravel. But they are much easier to work with especially if you don't have gravel readily available. There are also systems being used in Michigan called EZ-Flow. The plastic drain tiles are incased in a 12" bundle of styrafoam packing peanuts. Again, no gravel is used. Very easy to work with all you have to do is dig the trench and install the bundles level. The use of recycled tires in place of gravel has also been approved in some counties in MI.
I have never installed any of these systems, but have seem many go in.
The bottom line is that you have to get with your local health authority, in your case, the guy that was scratching his head for two hours, and find out if these alternative methods for on-site sewage disposal are approved for use in your area. Good luck!!
I feel sorry for the news houses being built in Ohio the new septic laws are not good.
The new septic is to cost 20 grand alone.
I dont know if the new law has started yet. There is a big fight about it.
Maybe someone with more insite can ring in here.
Thanks Alot Mr Mom
Quote from: Mr Mom on January 22, 2007, 12:22:22 PM
I feel sorry for the news houses being built in Ohio the new septic laws are not good.
The new septic is to cost 20 grand alone.
Ouch, at least I had some choice in the matter.
Are they requiring some sort of gallery system?
Project update! I'm kinda floating on cloud 9 right now. Took my plans for approval today and they passed without a hitch. Inspector had some questions all of which I was able to answer to his satisfaction. I now have all my permits and I'm ready to roll with footers. Pictures will be forthcoming.
Well driller is supposed to be coming to look at the site soon.
Who drew up your plans? Are they stamped by an engineer? That's one thing I'm paranoid about once I start building in SC.
Woo hoo Bob!!!! 8) 8) 8)
Thanks for the pictures. The picknic table with KFC brings back memories of the two years of "family" meals while puting up our place.
Joel
Awesome, now the easy part begins 8) 8)
I can tell you it varies tremendously by county and region here SC. I've been working one job within sight of a 3 county corner. Each of those counties has different enforcement... I mean way different :D. You'll have to chat with your inspector before you get too far along to get a real answer. A heads up to what is coming down the pike. The 06 code, when adopted by states, is going to have much tougher foundation rules, basically requiring an engineer. If we hold to our normal adoption speed that will happen here around 09, some states adopted it while the ink was still wet.
I drew my own plans. The plans were approved by the county code compliance office and they did not require an engineers stamp. This is however the largest geographic and lowest average income county in the state. I was very surprised, especially since I am doing ICF walls, Timberframe truss and rafters with R42 6.5" polyurethane SIP panels over top covered with steel roof. This isn't the stuff they see everyday. He questioned me about documentation on the panels and wants to see the manufacturers verification that they will span the 8'OC trusses/rafters. He seemed OK with the timber portion and the ICF portion although I told him I was more than willing to get an engineers stamp or provide documentation of the soundness of the design if he would like. I may still do it just for my own piece of mind. As for the foundation I am over-engineering it a bit. A little extra concrete and rebar will add little to the cost or labor but go a long way in building trust and conficence with the inspectors. I expect this house will withstand a small nuke attack. Will definitely hold up to any Hurricane, Tornado, and probably earthquake as well and being almost fireproof. Will be interesting to see how the Inspection schedule goes. There is no framing, no insulation, and electrical (infrared remote conrolled)/ mechanical (radiant floor heat in slab/ hydronic cooling with geothermal heat pump and passive solar assist) will be unconventional as well.
I have a very aggressive schedule and plan to be dried in by June and have CO by July doing all of it myself. My budget for the first phase 1000 Sq ft. guest house cottage is $45K. That includes sitework, septic, and well.
Now if only the weather would warm up for a week so I can pour footers and get things rolling. 8)
Here are a couple pics taken fri. night of the shed and sunset from the homesite looking at Smith Mt.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/homesite3.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/homesite2.JPG)
Hi Thehardway:
I installed septics in an earlier life during summers when there was no logging happening. I did a lot of systems. The Infiltrator system is the only way to go. Simple, fast and effective. Highly recommended.
Quote from: Thehardway on February 04, 2007, 10:02:44 PM
I drew my own plans. I was very surprised, especially since I am doing ICF walls, Timberframe truss and rafters with R42 6.5" polyurethane SIP panels over top covered with steel roof. I have a very aggressive schedule and plan to be dried in by June and have CO by July doing all of it myself. My budget for the first phase 1000 Sq ft. guest house cottage is $45K. That includes sitework, septic, and well.
Now if only the weather would warm up for a week so I can pour footers and get things rolling. 8)
Here are a couple pics taken fri. night of the shed and sunset from the homesite looking at Smith Mt.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/homesite3.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/homesite2.JPG)
How is this project going? I'm doing the samer thing as you ICF with timber frame. Are you cutting your own timbers?
I have the excavation work done and the footers formed and inspected. I hope to pour them Fri. If the weather holds off. I have been pulling my hair out trying to think of every possible penetration I may need or want in the future so I can put sleeves in the footer. Working with concrete on this scale really requires that you think ahead. The well was drilled last Wed. and we got water. 8) Waiting on the Power company to bury the power line and set transformer so we can install the pump and have water on site. Once the footers are poured and set the forms will be delivered. (3-4 days for delivery)
I am planning to mill the timbers for the roof myself from logs. I plan to do this and cut the joinery while the walls are curing. Weather has put me a little behind schedule. I can't get concrete up the driveway after soaking rain without rutting things up pretty bad.
Will try to get some pictures up soon of the progress or lack thereof :-\
Sorry if I asked this before but what ICF system are you using?
I've been looking at AMVIC only because they have a dist nearby [cleveland, tn]. Although he hasn't returned any calls.
What do you plan to use for bracing?
What is your timber frame spacing going to be for the roof system?
When them big mud trucks start lining up things tend to get moving right along. That's not the time to remember you forgot something. That mud stuff doesn't wait for no man.
interesting difference on septic systems....here I built mine with 5 x 8 meter runs and a 1000 gallon tank for a 1400 sq' home.
all I needed was 3' of sand under the piping and i was set. this was on difficult soil with rock just under the surface.
certainly our diets are not that far apart that we cant use similar systems! Thats what engineers VS politicians are supposed to be for.
I spend $7500 for all materials including sand and did it all myself.
I am going with Rewards 6" (11" overall) iForms. The spacing for the roof will be 8' OC between wall and kingpost truss in the great room and principle rafters in the loft area. Planing to span the 8' with SIPS. Corrugated Metal roof over the SIP's. Native stone will be laid up for 2' around house with HardiPanel siding above that.
Using Hydronic/Radiant heating and cooling system with PEX in the concrete floors and hang a couple small fan coils.
Will use 2X lumber for bracing and re-use for interior partition walls.
Feel free to email if you would like to discuss details etc. ICF is a little off topic for the forestry forum although it has become very popular fro basements/foundations of timberframes and logcabins alike. I view my project as a timberframing throwback to the medieval days when masonry walls were used and then wood was used to span it for the roof.
G. Stickley advocated the use of a concrete wall system in many of his Craftsman home designs.
Krusty,
The soil work was done for 4 Bedroom 4000sq.ft home which is what it will be when I'm finished. I could have done much less if I wasn;t planning for the bigger house to be built afterwards. It is definitely not a dietary issue!
Quote from: krusty on May 09, 2007, 03:48:30 PM
interesting difference on septic systems....here I built mine with 5 x 8 meter runs and a 1000 gallon tank for a 1400 sq' home.
all I needed was 3' of sand under the piping and i was set. this was on difficult soil with rock just under the surface.
certainly our diets are not that far apart that we cant use similar systems! Thats what engineers VS politicians are supposed to be for.
I spend $7500 for all materials including sand and did it all myself.
That seems pretty high to me. My qoutes are for no more than $3K for the 1000 gallon model. Nothing fancy.
Quote from: Thehardway on May 09, 2007, 04:56:51 PM
I am going with Rewards 6" (11" overall) iForms. The spacing for the roof will be 8' OC between wall and kingpost truss in the great room and principle rafters in the loft area. Planing to span the 8' with SIPS. Corrugated Metal roof over the SIP's. Native stone will be laid up for 2' around house with HardiPanel siding above that.
Using Hydronic/Radiant heating and cooling system with PEX in the concrete floors and hang a couple small fan coils.
Will use 2X lumber for bracing and re-use for interior partition walls.
you been peaking at my plans? This is almost excatly how I'm doing it. I will have drive out basement and no radiant heat, plus I was going to use native stone from my property but in 3 days of bull dozing I didn't see one single rock, stone or pebble, weird. Above the rock I am still undecided. I like batten and board but don't like maintaince.
Feel free to email if you would like to discuss details etc. ICF is a little off topic for the forestry forum although it has become very popular fro basements/foundations of timberframes and logcabins alike. I view my project as a timberframing throwback to the medieval days when masonry walls were used and then wood was used to span it for the roof.
G. Stickley advocated the use of a concrete wall system in many of his Craftsman home designs.
I'd hate to take this topic off site as the knowldge base here is immense. I don't think the day goes by I don't learn something from reading this forum.
I can understand the pride a tradtionalist has for their trade and I respect that but having heavy timber trusses sitting on top of concrete walls is still at least partial timberframe and relevent. IMHO
What's your footprint size?
QuoteWhat's your footprint size?
You just don't know how hard it is to stay out of this. :D :D
You are right about discussing things off of the forum. This is a different place than most forums. We try to find a place for most anything constructive. We all learn that way. :) As long as we are sitting around the stove and butting in, we're having a good time. As soon as folks take their talk to the corner of the room or outside, the rest of us lose them.
As long as the conversation is what you wouldn't mind your 10 year old daughter listening to, it's usually OK. If not, we'll sure say something :)
OK then, I will continue to intrigue some and bore others with my ICF timberframe drivel.
The footprint is 25'W X 33" L outside corner to outside corner. Here is the basic layout for the cottage guesthouse.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/firstfloor.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/loft.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/nwelevation.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/seelevation.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/neelevation.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12478/swelevation.JPG)
What did you use to draw that with? Sketchup? I noticed you have french doos that open in. Arne't these special order so more expensive than outswing?
Also I found a forum that has extensive ICF info
greenbuilding talk.
I think it's a pretty cool design. Kiwi Charlie was looking for some designs for small cabins awhile back. I'll bet he could have used something like this.
Actually inswing in residential is stock, outswing is special order. I prefer a "patio" door, one fixed, one swings, they are generally tighter.
That looks like about 1000 sf, not that small.
Quote from: Don P on May 12, 2007, 03:02:59 PM
Actually inswing in residential is stock, outswing is special order. I prefer a "patio" door, one fixed, one swings, they are generally tighter.
Must be a florida wind hurricane code. Here outswings are stock and in-swings are special order for about 3-4 times the price.
I really like the design, simple.
Drawing was done with Microsoft Visio TE. I have a number of CAD type drawing programs but find Visio simple and quick for general purpose.
I think you must be correct about the FL code on inswing doors. Like Don, I have never seen outswing around here.
I tried to keep the design simple and functional following in the Craftsman tradition. I hate hallways and think they are wasted space, hence the walk through closet. I also tried to keep it fully accesible for handicap and with easy and efficient traffic patterns. I have added a front porch since I did those renderings. I am also going to provide a knockout for a future exterior door off the bedroom.
The cottage may double for future use as a B&B or inlaw-suite once the main house is built. I am in a subdivision zoned R-1 so I may have to remove the kitchen when I build the main house to comply with zoning regs, which will leave a quite spacious guest quarters. It will feel larger also as the ceilings will be very high.
I think I might have a solution to my Treated Wood window and door buck issues. I think I will insert a peice of Trex type composite decking next to the Concrete and then screw standard kiln dried dimension lumber for the windo and door rough opening. It is stable, will not absorb moisture and the width dimensions will adapt well to my purpose. What do y'all think?
Also interested in ideas on flooring for the loft area. Not crazy about using OSB inside. Plywood is high$. Have thought about putting a T&G bit on my router or using a shiplap joint and turning some 2X lumber into flooring or cutting some pine on my mill. For the price of the plywood and flooring I could purchase a pretty nice planer.
If he'll let you I'd use my own, especially if it justifies a new tool 8).
Good idea about handicap accesible.We have 3 foot doors in our whole house,closets and all and only a couple overhead cupboards.We went with mostly draws,open it,not there,close it and keep searching.I got tried of coming home to my wife's other house and finding everything on the floor from the cupboards because she was looking for that certain dish.Than I would have to put it all back in.Our outlets are about 2 feet off the floor too.Our fire place was made about chair height.That comes in handy too and makes it easier to mantain.Good luck with your home.
Going on with that thought, in bathrooms we've been running a row of blocking around the whole room centered on 36" off the floor for future grabbars if needed.
Don P, best idea since the zipper, hadn't thought of that, and will use it when I frame up walls for my own bathroom. Thanks a bunch
Footings are poured. Stacking ICF's should begin next week. Still waiting for power company to hook up temp power.
I'm right behind you there! Hopefully footers next trip if I have time after getting the power hooked up!
What are you using for temp power? I know what my power co requires for the actual pole but I need to build the meter base, riser, circut breaker and have recepticales available probaley same as you.
Any ideas? I'd like to put everything together here in Florida then purchase the pole on location and mount everything.
AdditionallyI'll need to power the well pump from the temp pole for now to get water for the doublewide.
Congrats on gettin outta the dirt 8)
Our power co and inspector have copies of a temporary pole diagram they hand out. We had one 10 day period a few years ago that they required a real humdinger of a temp service. We failed, the electrician bought new parts and rebuilt the pole to the new spec, we passed, and a week later we were back to the old way ::).
I'm still going around and around with the power co. and inspector on the temp pole. Power co waiting on inspection and the inspector saying he will allow what the power co. does. Tha handout they gave me was for 200A permanent underground service. I'm only doing a 100A temp underground. Local contractors said I could use SE rated cable but inspector isn't too sure and says I should replace it with USE to avoid a call back if the power co won't connect to SE. I do know that they now require an "in use weather proof cover" to be used and all receptacles bust eiter be GFCI or wired to a GFCI breaker. The power co supplied me with a 100A meter base when they came to flag the path.
Pole must be at least a 6X6 and must be treated. you must have a disconnect or main breaker or no more breakers than can be turned off in six passes of the hand. Everything must be labeled. If you do your pump it must be hardwired in. There can be no receptacles on the branch circuit unless the breaker is a GFCI. I'll tell you all the peices and parts I used when it passes inspect and power co. has hooked up.
You can buy a ready to go temp box at Home Depot for about $90.00 Might be money ahead as I am approaching that real quick trying to rig up my own.
Hope this helps and good luck to you.
County inspector passed my Buried temp. power service this PM.
Here is what it consisted of for those interested.
1- 10' treated 6"X 6"
4- 18" treated 2"X8"
Nailed 2X8 peices across pole to make mounting for meter base and service panel.
1- Square D 100A rainproof QO Load center
2- 20A QO breakers
2- 20A GFCI duplex receptacles
1 - double gang weaterproof Box
1- 1/2" offset box connector
1- Weather proof "In Use" cover
1- 100A meterbase
15' - 2 AWG AL direct bury Service entrance cable w/ground
6' - #6 bare copper ground wire
1- 8' Grounding rod
1- 5/8" Grounding clamp
1- 10'X 1.25" S40 PVC conduit
3- 1.25" threaded connectors
2- 1.25" plastic bushings
5- 1/4' straps
1- 1.25" straps
Will try to take a low res. photo and post.
I used 2 breakers and 2 GFCI outlets. I could have placed 2 GFCI's on 1 breaker but used 2 because I didn't want to be overloading and popping breakers when using heavy duty drills or beam saw and having to reset constantly. I will have a full 20A per duplex receptacle.
My ICF's are on the road enroute to the job and I will start the stacking process Fri. weather permiting. Thanks to TS Barry we got 1-9/10" rain yesterday & it looks like I am building a swimming pool. I will have to pump it out tommorrow and hope it dry by weekend.
Hey Hardway, your floorplan is almost the same as the cabin that I'm building. Mine is 24' x 32' living area and a loft covering 1/3rd and the rest open to the roof, but with covered porches all around. Here is the page with some partial plans. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=19307.0
Looks like you've got a great start! Good Luck and have fun...we are.
Quinton
My ICF blocks arrived last Thurs. The truck that delivered them got side swiped by a Pepsi truck who blew a RF tire and lost control. There were quite a few damaged forms but we unloaded all of the undamaged ones on Fri.
I layed out the outside edge of the wall and squared everything on the footer with guide strings. Will HILTI a few metal studs to the footer to serve as track and straight edge for the forms. I layed out two courses of block (2X16"=32" high) 33' long w/corners in about 15 min. by myself. This stuff goes together FAST!!!. I now have to begin building window bucks. I am going to use 1/2" CA (Copper Azole) Treated Plywood ripped to 6" dimension against the concrete and then finish out the window header and jambs with SPF 2X dimension lumber. Inspector said metal flashing would be OK but I think the plywood will go much faster and it won't be subject to warp/split as much. Should be easy to keep everything nice and tight and square. Suprisingly you are to allow 1/16" per course of blocks for settling when the concrete is poured when you build the window bucks.
Qweaver, I like your plans and I have also added a 8X 24 rocking chair porch to my plan.
Thanks for everybody's ideas and input. this is definitely the best self build website on the internet. I'll continue to update with progress.
I vote for a 10 ft wide porch so you can have a table etc. That is what we did and it works great.
Great thread... -subscribe- :)