I have read about the dangers of using tractors to skid logs. Is it safe to lift logs with a 3point and about what is the lifting capacity? I have a 45hp IH farm tractor and have been tempted to use the 3point to load logs on the trailer, but don't know how safe it is. Any comments?
Going to use a boom or forks on the 3pt?
Just need to counterbalance the front end with weight.
The answer to the question of safety would have several aspects. One would be keeping the front wheels on the ground as has already been pointed out. Another would be possible damage to the tractor.
Just how much force were the 3 pt. connection points to the transaxle designed to withstand? If you simply back the tractor up to a log and lift the log up with some chain via the 3pt., I don't think it would be a problem, but it would also not be of much practical use to you. The next step then is to rig up a small boom to the hitch. The next step after that would be a bigger boom with a small winch on the end of it. As the 3 point hitch log lifting mechanism evolves, at some point you would probably exceed the structural strength of the transaxle. At that point, I would not want to be around when you have a heavy log lifted several feet off the ground and the transaxle disintegrates.
I think it could be done, but great care would have to be taken to spread the mechanical stresses out across the frame of the tractor.
IMHO,
Jim
I lift logs with a home made hitch thingy that uses log tongs. On bigger logs, I run a choker from the log through a clevis to the front end of the tractor. In addition, I have a FEL and keep the bucket maxed out with firewood chunks to keep the front end on the ground.
If in doubt...be safe and figure out a better way.
How big is your 45hp tractor ? The larger old farm tractors with the large frames will lift more than a small short framed utility. If you can keep the load close to the pin eyes you can lift safely what the hitch is rated for. Read the manual. The farther you are away from the hitch points the less you can lift and the more counter weight you need. But heck yea you can lift logs with the 3pnt.
I have used the 3-pt to lift-roll logs onto bunks. I got a 25", 22' red oak log on 6" high bunks by backing up to the log with the lift down, leaving the tractor in reverse and then pulling the lift up while moving backwards. It may not be the best way to move logs, but when they are too much for the logrite it will work. I need to rig up a parbuckle device, but it seems I always have something else to do.
A lot of it is how familiar you are with your setup. Tractors have pulled about everything known to man at one time or another. But, whats easy for one guy, may not be for the next. Some of us grew up on tractors, hundreds of hours [or more] every year, doing everything you can imagine. It gets to where you can look at a job and know wether or not you should even try it. They can be dangerous, all this stuff is. Chainsaws, logs, sawmills, it can all hurt you. I read a lot of posts on YT forum, lots of people getting tractors because "granddad had one" No clue some of them, how heavy they are, how fast they'll snap a cable & send it at you, & how they will get you in trouble. No OJT involved, which really hurts. You just can't get years of experience reading online or going to a tractor pull. My best advise would be to move small logs, get used to the machine on good ground, kind of learn your way up the ladder. No kids riding next to you, [i've seen it] no bystanders to get hurt. A lot of it's common sence.
One other thing to think about while perched atop the seat is to think about where the lift cylinder for the 3 pt is located. Then look back across that long boom pole, at its leverage, the short fulcrum and the cylinder thats right under your :D. Confessions of the owner of a really stout boom pole and a cracked seat cover :o.
I don't know about you guys but i find that the manufactures of the tractor build in safe guards.
this mean that the hydraulics should hit the pressure release before you can over load the rear axel. just my 2 cents.
I agree. A piece of equipment shouldn't be able to hurt itself or you, but, there is always that "whoops".
Then there is the need to have more than the job calls for, which requires operator attention. An example is an Automobile that is capable of 100 mph when the speed limit is 75 mph. You need that extra to get out of trouble.
I used an old massey-ferguson 135 to load and skid logs for several years. Had a heavy bar across the 3-pt hitch and a good set of tongs attached to that. Hook to one end of the log, lift it a few inches off the ground and head for the trailer. To load, lift one end of the log onto the back end of the trailer, then get behind the log and push it the rest of the way. Also built a platform that works like a set of forks. To be really useful, it needs a top link that is a hydraulic cylinder. Have a neighbor who has a similar setup on a small yanmar tractor. He uses it to load logs on to his norwood sawmill.
Been my experience--as a general rule, you can safely lift more withe 3-pt than you can with a front end loader on any given tractor.
That heavy bar is called a Tool Bar and everyone with a tractor should have one :)
Pineywoods, can you get a picture of that setup on your neighbor's Yanmar?
Tom, is what you are calling a tool bar the same thing as a draw bar?
Stew
No sir. A draw bar comes out from under the tractor like a trailer hitch and is the safest way to haul a load. It is strong and always below the rear axles. Keeping the load below the axles stops the tractor from coming over backwards and crushing you.
A tool bar is a hefty bar, usually 3/4 x 3 x 30 and it has two lifting ears on each end that fit into the arms of the 3point hitch. Some folks will make a place to connect the top hitch to them to keep them from rolling over but they don't normally have one. They have holes drilled their entire length to accomodate the attachment of chains or trailers or whatever. Very simple, just a bar of steel. But, it keeps the load close to the tractor and care will keep the load low.
What you described it what is actually labeled a draw bar around here.
But I agree with your description of a draw bar, Tom.
What you described is also known as a draw bar around here as well. I've got one on my tractor now. Mine also has the hitch below the axle.
Stew
Googling up Drawbar, northern tool
Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company shows both of these items as Drawbars. I guess I need to learn some new vocabulary.
We always called 'em belly drawbars and three-point hitch drawbars...........2 different animals.
To increase the lifting height of the three-point hitch, there is a scissors contraption made.............which when used with a hydraulic top link............will pick a bale of hay or log up high enough to get it onto a farm trailer. Don't have a picture.
Oh well, I always knew it as a toolbar too ???
Tom
I agree with you, and the fact that over the years, the young-uns have bastardized the terminology. :) No offense to the young-uns meant. :)
Big discussion on this over on the TBN (TractorByNet) site some time ago. The drawbar is where drawbar horsepower is measuered at the Nebraska tests, and its where Tom said it is. Drawbar horsepower isn't measured from the 3pt bar between the lift arms, I'm sure. But names of things drift over time, and it's not likely a big one (just makes defining things for understanding a bit tougher).
To me, we've seen the same problem with the word slabs, when slabs used to be the cuts removed from a log to square it up. What some call slabs now (and the term begets slabbers) used to be called flitch's. So we see the names drift around a bit there too. In discussions, we see where someone has a slab pile to get rid of in the wood burner, and they sure don't mean the big slabs that came from a slabber (they are called flitch's, meaning un-edged thick cuts of wood from a log, and a term also used in the veneer industry to describe the wood put on a veneer slicer). Just thought I'd toss that out to knaw on. :)
What I always refered to as a tool bar was a square or rectanguar bar of various lengths ,most wide as or wider than the tractor . They alwas had full 3pnt. attachment . They were used to attach differant tools that would be used to cultivate or plant or some other operation.
Quote from: beenthere on January 25, 2007, 12:02:52 AM
Tom
I agree with you, and the fact that over the years, the young-uns have bastardized the terminology.
Now wait a minute...... Somehow, that saying makes me feel ........OLD :D
I don't have a name for the bar your talking about (I have the bar though ;D), but I agree with Tom on the drawbar. The drawbar is that piece of steel that attaches to the belly and extends under the rear axel. It is made for towing heavy stuff. I use the other bar for hitching to my utility trailer to move lumber. I have found that I can lower the 3pt which raises the rear of the trailer and facillitates off loading.
Quote from: brdmkr on January 25, 2007, 12:13:47 AM
Quote from: beenthere on January 25, 2007, 12:02:52 AM
Tom
I agree with you, and the fact that over the years, the young-uns have bastardized the terminology.
Now wait a minute...... Somehow, that saying makes me feel ........OLD :D
Don't get feeling tooo old, those younguns that did the bastardizing are in their 80's and 90's. :o
Whatever you pull from be carefull of two things;
1) whatever point is doing the pulling, is BELOW the centerline of the rear axle, that way a snag will pull the front end down, not roll it over onto you.
2) that the pulling is done by the drawbar, or the two lift arms, NOT by the upper 3rd link point. This point is not designed to be used as a pull point, not only is it dangerously high, but can, and will bend or break if overloaded.
Be safe!!!
What I've been using, to skid logs out for years, is the 3pt with an arch-type rigging. Now I use what is called a 3pt quick-tach, and put the log tongs on the top hook. With balancing weight on the front end, such as the loader or snowplow, I've had no counter-reaction that would cause the tractor to 'flip' over.
Back in the day when I did this with an 8N Ford, there were times when the front end would get light and come up. However, it wasn't quick because the tractor was in lowest (first) gear and there was plenty of time to either:
a) lower the 3pt arms which drops the log to the ground and removes all lift of the front end of the tractor
b)depress the clutch and stop the forward movement of the tractor
c) turn off the key and shut off the motor (had to reach over and do that once when a buddy panicked, and rather than do a or b, he just watched the front end lift up and jumped off). The tractor front end came up slow enough I could step over and turn the key to shut off the tractor.
Don't mean to belittle any comments and suggestions that pulling logs this way is dangerous, but it is no more so, IMO, than going downhill with a log slung in logging arch that has no wheel brakes, and no way to drop the log to the ground. A runaway/jackknife downhill with an ATV/tractor and a heavy log may not be pretty, the way I think of it.
Method I am referring to:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/tongsclose_a.JPG)
And with the 8N Ford
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/8NHitch.jpg)
Ok, I'm throwing my 2c into this pointless arguement on bars. smiley_argue01
1- Why would anyone, except a complete noob, need an education about where or what the drawbar is on a tractor?
2- I've been around tractors all my life. Grew up on a farm. Even as a kid the old timers refered to the 3-point bar in question as a 3-point draw bar. Tool bar/3-point draw bar - must be a local old-timer thing?
And to make matters worse, someone I know has a 3-point reese hitch with all the attachments. It's made of heavy square tubing and lacks the series of holes between the lift arms. Considering the arguements, is that a reese hitch tool bar ? laugh_at whiteflag_smiley
One thing I like about 'em is you don't have to get off the tractor to adjust the height on what you are hitching to. smiley_thumbsup
Gee, it didn't sound like an arguement to me. Anyway, since I was the originator of this question, Thank you all for your replys. Skidding and pulling logs is not my concern. My original question realy had to do with lifting. Occasionaly I'll have logs that I've skidded out that I need to load on my equipment traler. What I was thinking is a safe way to lift the log in the center and back up to the side of the trailer and set it on. I'm talking about a height of about 2 feet. I was thinking of a short boom off the 3point. I also saw a picture of someones tractor with a sort of fork attachment.
Please understand, I'm trying neither to lecture or argue, I dislike both.
The facts are clear, tractors roll over and people die from it.
According to the first Goobbermint website Google pointed me to "Overturns have the highest fatality rate for unintentional tractor injures occurring on the farm, according to reports from 29 states covering more than 66 percent of the tractors in U.S. In 1993, overturns accounted for 55 percent of all on-the-farm tractor fatalities reported, with a an annual rate of 4.1 deaths per 100,000 tractors." and it goes on to say there are a little over 4.8 million tractors in the US.
That means somewhere near 200 people a year die from a tractor rollover. :o
If it saves just one person, and from just an minor injury or even a scare, I'll keep spoutin' off at da mouth. ;)
QuoteMy original question realy had to do with lifting.
Stumpy,
I understood your original question and expected someone else to chime in with a good answer. Not that my answer is any better. ..... ::)
I have a set of 3 point mounted heavy duty hay forks that will lift a pretty heavy load, even on my small Kubota. The problem is that when you lift with them, they will tilt the load towards the tractor. In order to make them useful for what your asking you would need to be able to have them tilt away (backward) from the tractor. Both my tractors use a 'fixed' top link. (by fixed I mean it is manually shortened or lengthened). For what your proposing I think you need a hydraulic link that could be extended once you raised the 3 point hitch to have it tilt backwards and let the log roll off. This is a pretty good idea though. Almost like having forks on a front loader.
All that said, raising a heavy log above the axle height will require some front mounted counter weight to be safe. When I carry heavy hay bales on the Kubota 3-point I keep it low to the ground and have the loader bucket for a counter balance.
I was just stirrin' the pot for laughs - not to ruffle feathers.
DR_Buck's answers sounds good to me. I second the be careful part - they rare up like horses. This can be real tricky on slopes. ::)
I've used frontend loaders on many different tractors over the years. Then these forky things came out. I found they have more uses than you can imagine. JD's version mounts both on the loader and the 3-point hitch (but not at the same time :D).
Stumpy, here's a pic of the 3ph forklift I built. The forks a 6 footers off a Yale lift. I made the frame to fit the cat.2 on my IH. If you can see it, the top link is a 3" x 20" hydraulic cyl., with a clamp mounted part way along it for the top pin. I get about 3' of travel on the tips of the forks. You can get under any log, curl the forks, carry it safe, then roll it off without getting off the seat. It's moved 2'+ by 16' oak, some big rocks, machinery, even the baby grand piano in our house [with care of course] (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11530/3ph%20forkxx.jpg)
Just as a quick calculation, mike, how high would you think you would have to lift a log with your rig (or one very similar) before there would danger of backward rollover? On a reasonably level surface, of course. ;)
I use a heavy duty 3pt hitch boom to skid logs. The key is to have lots of weight on the front end. The more weight the more you can pick up safely ( within the capability of your three point hitch lift) My boom goes way out there and can pick things rather high. But I have a frontend loader to counterbalance it.
I've had the front wheels come off the ground with rocks, very near with some big logs, i'll sticker lumber right off the mill, then move the whole stack with this. You can't roll this over backwards, it only lifts about 3 ft? The load will bottom itself on the ground before the front end comes anywhere near it's "point of no return" We gotta use our brains too, any load that I feel is making the front end light, that tractors in Low range 1 st gear. I've pulled rocks with the real drawbar [under the belly], you get just the right hitch on a big one, the front wheels will come up & you steer with the brakes. Like I said though, low range 1 st gear. Just like the big boys at the tractor pull. I've heard of , but never seen the old JD's, A's, B's, with the hand clutch would lock up and rotate right around on those 38" tires. Lot of the guys at the pulls have skid bars under the back to prevent this. If you add a 3 ph log skidder or something like that and pull from higher up, now it's all changed, tip point is worse, etc.
An average 45'ish hp tractor should have a lift capacity of about 2000 - 3000 pounds on the 3pth, but this is sort of deceiving because it is usually given as "xxx pounds at 24" beyond the lift points." which they kind of assume is where the center of the weight of an implement will be.
If you are talking right on the lower links, it will lift waaay more than you should. :D
There is another slightly different version of what Mike has, that has an actual lift track like a tow motor does, they will lift a good load up more than high enough to load a truck, or scare the dickens out of you. :o
Hitching a log like BeenThere has it will work, and with a good chain hitched around the butt of the log, and tethered fairly short to that big clevis he has on the drawbar, will transfer the weight to the drawbar if it snags too. ;)
I have had an 8 foot boom mounted to the 3 point of my tractor. Hooking a set of tongs to the end I could load a log over the wheels of my trailer. If I tried to skid with that unit, I could tip the tractor over, but using it to lift and then back up to the trailer is not a problem. I hooked a rope to a ring on one of the tongs to help control the rotation of the log. When I set the log on the trailer, a hard pull on this rope will release one side of the tongs (most of the time) so you can lift them away from the log without getting off the tractor. Backing up while lifting may also be necessary to get the tongs free.
Be careful! Anytime you lift something above the axel you have created a potential for tip-over, be it backwards or sideways. If you use your head about it, it will be quite safe. If you are the reckless kind, sooner or later you'll wish you weren't. :o
I really don't like to lift anything heavy with my boom pole. The front end on my tractor si just too light. I have really gotten use to being able to steer it. That gets pretty tough with the whells in the air :o I use my boom a good bit, but I never use it to lift anything over 600 lbs or so. It jes taint worth it.
I have a 48hp tractor and use my boom pole for a lot of lifting. But with the heavier loads, I fasten closer to the tractor. Don't pick up much at the tip. Most of the logs are fastened right up next to the top link at the tractor. Just don't have much lift height there. When using it to drag a log, I fasten a chain to the drawbar. When moving logs for any distance, I place one on a dolly and pick the other end up with the boom pole (usually at the top link) and take off. (The log is also fastened to the drawbar.) I have moved tree length logs this way.
Did you guys ever run a four wheel drive articulated tractor ,duals all around. Well I have a hyster fork lift mast ,three stage goes up 20+ foot built forheavy lifting. My tractor is an 8430 Deere not a light wheight tractor . I had to place a large slab of concrete over a foundation . I could not get close to the foundation so I made a giging to carry the 8'x8' slab of concrete on the tips of the forks . I started out going forward and had to turn . Only thing is the front end of the tractor just swerved from side to side and the tractor went straight. I had to backup so I could turn . Keep the loads close and low
On a 45 hp tractor, I would imagine one could rig a set of forks to pick up most logs one would need on the mill. Generally, the lift height is fairly constrained. The chance of backward rollover is practically non existent with such a rig
If a load is heavy to one side, then there is always the pronounced chance the tractor going that direction. Unpleasantly.
Where I began 'tractoring', it seemed that probably half the work was done with the front wheels off the ground. Steering with left/right brakes was as much a part of learning to run a tractor as getting it started.
By no means should one ever take them for granted. I've tetered on the edge working dirt more than I like to admit. It seems to happen no matter what you do sometimes.
Rolling sideways is the most prominent tractor malady. If loaded, with most anything, it can sometimes take only a very small deviation in the surface to start taht energy.
I'm overall pretty slow running a tractor. Intentionally. ;D
Me too. I am amazed at how many folks, especially the younger crowd, treat a tractor as if it were a sports car. If it has a hydrostatic transmission they use it for a brake and the tractor leaves skid marks as it stops and starts. Then you see them trying to go throughthe gears as the go down the road with a load. Gears are grinding and you just know something is going to drop out of the bottom.
I remember something I heard one time and it has stuck. "The only reason a tractor has wheels is to get the engine to where you can use it." I know, we pull stuff with a tractor too but is certainly no hotrod. :D
As has been touched on by several, the scary part about a tractor in the hands of an inexperienced operator is that it will get a whole bunch more weight moving than it is capable of stopping or steering safely. :o
In my neck of the (former) woods, there's a lot of former city-slickers living on a few acres, most of them have a little tractor, usually a shiney new 4WD import model, sometimes a restored old chore machine like a Farmall.
It scares the bejeebers out of me when I see them going down the road flat-out with a trailer load of fresh cut green wood on a trailer out the back, usually with a couple of kids piled up on top. smiley_eek_dropjaw
If some knuckle-head ever pull out of a driveway they'd have little chance of not messin' up bad!!
Quote from: Murf on January 25, 2007, 01:32:44 PM
The facts are clear, tractors roll over and people die from it.
According to the first Goobbermint website Google pointed me to "Overturns have the highest fatality rate for unintentional tractor injures occurring on the farm, according to reports from 29 states covering more than 66 percent of the tractors in U.S. In 1993, overturns accounted for 55 percent of all on-the-farm tractor fatalities reported, with a an annual rate of 4.1 deaths per 100,000 tractors." and it goes on to say there are a little over 4.8 million tractors in the US.
That means somewhere near 200 people a year die from a tractor rollover. :o
The above information and the post from Tom reminded me of some information I read in a magazine recently. It stated that most fatal tractor accidents are caused by rollovers, but most rollovers are caused by high speed driving on roads and not on hilly ground or while the tractor is being used in the normal way. In my area of Ky the land is very hilly and there have been several fatal tractor rollovers and every one was caused by high speed driving on roads or doing something stupid as chasing cows with a tractor. As has been stated, tractors are not sports cars and should not be driven that way.
Bob
Of course, they tried to sell me one, and folks cant their heads and look bumfuzzled when I explain that I did NOT buy hydrostatic (it's so much faster and all, you know). One of the ( if not the ) reasons, was just that.
Quote from: mike_van on January 24, 2007, 07:40:42 PM
A lot of it is how familiar you are with your setup. Some of us grew up on tractors, hundreds of hours [or more] every year, doing everything you can imagine. It gets to where you can look at a job and know wether or not you should even try it.
Says alot! But no guarantees.
Speeding on a tractor can be a problem. When I was little, I saw one turn into a gravel driveway without slowing down. He didn't make it. He slid across the entrance and hit the bank on the other side. Broke the front end out from under it. The tractor was repaired. Later I saw that same tractor take off down a long steep hill with a hay wagon behind it. No one was on it. It had jumped outta gear. (Yeah, it was a Ford.) It musta been doing 40 when it went into the ditch at the bottom. It stopped quick. The wagon's tongue folded and the wagon ended up on top of the tractor. Scratch one tractor.
Same ditch about one year later. Farmall B (offset engine) spreading seed. Operator was happy to spread seed on up on the hill until it got too steep. He then refused to take it across the hillside with the engine on the downhill side and proceeded to turn up the hill and do a dry run across the top then make another pass with the engine on the uphill side. This angered the elder who took control and ran across there with the engine on the downhill side. He made it about 50' then you know what happened next. I saw him jump off the downhill side and run down the hill with the tractor chasing him all the way. He jumped between two saplings and into the ditch. The tractor almost broke through those saplings. His 1st works were a dressing down the younger for (without being asked to) not getting on the tractor and holding the uphill side down.
Same guy had cleat marks across his chest from running a tractor's rear wheel at high speed over a stump about 20 years before. It threw him in front of the wheel and proceeded to run over him. He spent 3 months in the hospital. Rolling the B was the last accident he had. He finally learned his lesson.
There are several around the neighborhood that are experienced but are still known for running their tractors too fast. I know most of them and suspect every one of them were not exposed to tractors until their late teens. They treat their tractors as off-road sport vehicles. It is amazing how long it takes to break them of the habit. I recently saw a tractor belonging to one of them sitting along the road. It was clear what happened. It came down the hill, turned into a gravel driveway, couldn't make the turn, and broke the front end out from under it when it hit a heavy guard rail. Story was he had his wife's friend drive it for him. She had never driven a tractor before. She tried to make the turn without slowing down. It was a new ~90(?) horse Kabota. It sat there for 2 weeks for all to see. It looked like a trophy.
I've got many more, and uglier, stories. Most I witnessed 1st hand. I've never had an accident on a tractor. I guess it's best to learn from others mistakes and thank God He has protected me.
Bob, you raise a very good point, besides the fact that momentum can be a real problem, a tractor is a real go-anywhere vehicle, the deep gearing and big tires, even without 4WD will allow it to go through some pretty tough places.
The problem is that the center of gravity can chabge quickly, what is safe and stable on flat level ground could turn deadly on uneven ground quicker than most would believe.
Stay safe.......
Read this thread with perspective.
Pulling some sticks out of the woods last weekend.., turning up the hill, ground falling off to the right ,she reared up a couple feet in the air and there was that split second when my mind said, "PUNCH THE CLUTCH NOW!!"
Center of gravity had crept up on me. Been driving this tractor since 1960. Don't like the Hi HO , Silver stuff at all.One of the highest ever. Blade on the back was going to keep me from going over...maybe.........
Pulled 3 or 4 more out, ...can't let FEAR rule you... you RULE fear by doing things safely. Still, I had to go to the house, drop a load, and take a shower before I got the stink off me.. :o
Not telling the wife, either...I hate putting a strain on my guardian angel. 'Bout wore that girl out in my Twenties.
Okay Lud, I read your post was starting to feel a bit of empathy as I remember things I have done and had my guardian angel whisper in my ear that it was not a good idea, then I noticed that under your post it says you are "left handed". That explains a lot. ;)
Jim
2-3 years ago, I was combining and watching the farmers across the road haul manure. One tractor would come up the gravel road full speed, cross the shallow road ditch at an angle, still in road gear, and roar across the field, apparently never having shifted down. :o I was sure he would tip over crossing that ditch. Year or so later, his tractor, maybe the same one, BROKE IN TWO going down the road. As I understand it, he was pinned to the seat by the steering wheel, and someone had to cut his clothes away to free him. Now I wonder why that tractor would break in half like that? :D
I find that driveways are there for a reason. ;D The Peters boys like to drive through the ditches around here too. Of course they only keep their equipment for 3-5 years then trade on new ones. ::) I would not want any of their machines. The county road commision does not like them very much for that either. :D :D :D
Farmerdoug
Radar67 here's the pics of the 3-point forks on a yanmar. A little scrap iron and a welder=poor mans fork lift.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/rforks3.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/rforks1.jpg)
This setup belongs to a neighbor. When I took these pics, he had just loaded a 22 inch by 8ft pine log on to his norwood with it.
There are my forks. I saw something like that on this site and I made a version of it for my tractor
Works very well, and can be adjusted wide or narrow along the rod. Very good to pile the boards after the cut and stack them all somewhere at the same time..
Toxedo