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Other topics for members => General Woodworking => Topic started by: Dave Shepard on February 06, 2007, 08:40:03 PM

Title: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 06, 2007, 08:40:03 PM
I was wondering if anybody here does any woodworking using only old hand tools? I have collected a bunch of antique tools to use in timber framing and I've been messing around in the shop building a few things with them lately. I have been looking for books on how to build things with just hand tools, but every book I pick up they seem to want you to have a full cabinet shop just to think about making anything. And routers, what's with the routers? You can't even cut a 2"x unless you have at least two routers in the toolbox according to these guys. Every time I've used a router I feel like I have my head in a giant pencil sharpener. My hand planes don't make any dust and just a whisper as they put a perfect chamfer on the edge of the board. If anybody knows of any good books on the subject I would greatly appreciate it.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: DanG on February 06, 2007, 09:35:57 PM
Dave, look for some of Roy Underhill's books.  Not only do they contain a lot of info about old tools and techniques, but they're entertaining reading, too.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 09, 2007, 12:16:02 PM
Thanks DanG, I'll look for Roy's books.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: low_48 on February 09, 2007, 04:36:18 PM
Also John Alexander does a great job with chair making. He wrote a book for Tauton Press a long time ago, "Build a Chair From a Tree". He now has a video to go along with that. He has a good website with plans for a shaving horse (No DanG it is not something done before the Kentucky Derby) :D, a taper scraper for chair leg holes, etc..... There are also some good books out there on rustic furniture (sticks). For some reason I really enjoy that. I bought a 5/8" tenon cutter from Lee Valley. So it's just cut some sticks, drill holes and tenons, you have a chair. Great Fun!
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Murf on February 09, 2007, 04:55:14 PM
I do some work with just the old tools passed on to me. Sure makes it easy to make 'rustic' looking pieces.  :D

Also gives you a real appreciation for the fellas that earned their keep with them too.  ::)

There's no where to plug a battery in to a one of them, and they're real work at times, but worth every bit of it.

It took me years to get the hang of them, and the knowledge didn't come from a book either, in fact one of my teachers is still around, I'll be at his birthday party next weekend, he turns 101 next week.  :o

And he plans on driving himself to the party!!!  :o
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 09, 2007, 06:59:55 PM
Them old time cabinet makers didn't live as long around here murf.   :( No one in my family made stuff from wood that I can recall. Only an old uncle of mother's came close, but he never made furniture that I can recall. He was a dobber. Instead of replacing something with new, like a whole new paint job, he'd dob paint on the pealed sections.  ;)  :D Other than building houses and barns, I'm the only one making a stab at making furniture once in awhile.  ;)
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 09, 2007, 07:12:49 PM
Murf, just make sure your friend has a designated driver for the ride home ;) That's great to hear of someone doing so well at that age. My neighbor is still farming at 90, wouldn't think of "retiring". I purchased a toolbox last year that had belonged to a cabinet maker that was working in the early 1900's. I was planing a piece of oak last night and for fun I picked out a big Seargent No. 8 and ran it down the board. It cut like butter. I was told that none of these tools had been used in at least 50 years! (I purchased them from the mans nephew, who is 89) They are some of my most prized tools.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: solodan on February 10, 2007, 05:03:21 PM
Roy Underhill's  books are great. His TV show is great  as well.  Look for any inf on Don Webber or Google "bodgers" or "green woodworking"
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: sawguy21 on February 11, 2007, 11:20:58 AM
My dad had a lot of the old tools and I enjoyed watching him work with them. He had power tools but preferred a good Stanley plane or a brace and bit. My nephew has a dovetail joint pine desk dad built in high school in the early thirties. That desk has seen a lot of household moves and hard use yet is still quite solid.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: TW on February 13, 2007, 01:56:37 PM
I do not use "only old hand tools" but they get used a bit. I do mostly repairs and what is needed so I cannot invest much money in furnituremaking tools. My furnituremaking tools are for a big part old handtools bought as junk at fleamarkets and auctions and some inherited and even some found at the dump. Many of them are more than 100 years old. I am trying to get machine tools when money allows but it will be good to have the old ones as backup.

Then the house carpentry tools are a different matter. They earn some money now and then and are consequently allowed to cost a little. Of cause there are some secondhand among them too.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 17, 2007, 09:01:54 PM
I went to my local bookstore to look for some books on working with hand tools, especially a Roy Underhill book. No luck. :( They didn't have anything on working with hand tools. They did have a couple of books about handtools that were very nice. Everything was for powertools. I am not against powertools, but I don't have any and don't have the money to buy any right now. I do have a ton of old cabinet makers tools that I would like to learn how to use. Here is a partial listing of books they did have:

"Throwing away your grandads tools: 3 easy steps to becoming an electron junky"
"How to make noise and fine airborne dust particles with your powertools"
"Spending your lottery winnings to build a $15 box you may or may not show your friends"
"How to fit a tablesaw, jointer, and bandsaw into your hall closet"
"Wood: understanding it and how to come to come to terms with the fact that you probably are never going to build anything that isn't going to warp or twist the next time the temperature changes, and that you should probably take up knitting"

I guess I will have to order the Underhill books online. I do like to support the local stores though.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on August 17, 2007, 09:24:33 PM
Lee Valley may have something. They even sell hand tools, so that's what makes me think they have some books on them as well.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dodgy Loner on August 18, 2007, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 17, 2007, 09:01:54 PM
"Throwing away your grandads tools: 3 easy steps to becoming an electron junky"
"How to make noise and fine airborne dust particles with your powertools"
"Spending your lottery winnings to build a $15 box you may or may not show your friends"
"How to fit a tablesaw, jointer, and bandsaw into your hall closet"
"Wood: understanding it and how to come to come to terms with the fact that you probably are never going to build anything that isn't going to warp or twist the next time the temperature changes, and that you should probably take up knitting"

:D :D :D :D :D

Let me cast my vote for Roy Underhill.  I have three of his books - The Woodwright's Shop, The Woodwright's Companion, and The Woodwright's Workbook.  They're all fantastic.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: leweee on August 18, 2007, 01:30:17 PM
 A few more sources:

BOOKS (http://www.blackburnbooks.com/Support/Contact.html)

BOOK (http://www.amazon.ca/Hand-Tools-Aldren-Watson/dp/0393322769)

BOOK (http://www.mannyswoodworkersplace.com/8234331.html)

Eric Sloane (http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Sloane,%20Eric)
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: solodan on August 18, 2007, 05:11:48 PM
And, The Woodwright's Eclectic Workshop is another great one :)
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 19, 2007, 12:05:46 AM
I would like to learn how to hand cut dovetail joints to make a small box, or a carryall for tools, which of Underhills books would be best for this? The MA library system has a bunch of his books and I can order them into my local library, that way I can check them out to see which ones I want to buy. Thanks.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: thedeeredude on August 19, 2007, 10:21:55 AM
Dave, I'm a hand tool junky.  I went to an antique tool dealer a couple weeks ago and got a Sargent 410 smoother, a stanley 220 block with a wooden knob, a "eggbeater" drill, a brace and a Stanley sweetheart carpenters hammer.  And Ill be going back again for Christmas presents ;D   I cant really do much hand tool work until I have a good workbench though. 
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: MemphisLogger on August 19, 2007, 12:41:21 PM
This is the best page of collected handtool links on the web . . .

Handtool Knowledge (http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm)
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dodgy Loner on August 19, 2007, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on August 19, 2007, 12:05:46 AM
I would like to learn how to hand cut dovetail joints to make a small box, or a carryall for tools, which of Underhills books would be best for this? The MA library system has a bunch of his books and I can order them into my local library, that way I can check them out to see which ones I want to buy. Thanks.


Dave

I believe The Woodwright's Shop and The Woodwright's Workbook both have chapters about dovetailing by hand.  The Woodwright's Shop is more in-depth.  I've been dovetailing by hand for a couple years and I've gotten pretty good at it.  Let me know if you have any trouble with it, I've made just about every error you can imagine ;).

Quote from: thedeeredude on August 19, 2007, 10:21:55 AM
Dave, I'm a hand tool junky. I went to an antique tool dealer a couple weeks ago and got a Sargent 410 smoother, a stanley 220 block with a wooden knob, a "eggbeater" drill, a brace and a Stanley sweetheart carpenters hammer. And Ill be going back again for Christmas presents ;D I cant really do much hand tool work until I have a good workbench though.

TDD, a good workbench is the most important tool you could own.  My own woodworking got much better immediately after I built mine.  Have you read any of Chris Schwarz's articles about workbenches?  They're probably the most helpful woodworking articles I've read in the last year.  As helpful as my bench has been, I'm already planning to build a new one based on his advice.  Here's a ling to his blog (http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,All%20Weblog%20Posts.aspx) if you're interested.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 19, 2007, 09:07:05 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone! I too have trouble with my workbench. It is an excellent sturdy bench, but it has no provisions for clamping. I screwed a couple of pieces of wood to the top so I could plane against them. I have to build a real workbench soon. I picked up a few books at the Hancock Shaker Museum gift shop today that cover woodworking with hand tools. I volunteer there so I get a great discount. ;)


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dodgy Loner on August 20, 2007, 01:05:09 PM
My bench has the same problems.  It's very heavy and very sturdy, but I have difficulty holding certain pieces to work on them.  It has a face vise and dog-holes, but they aren't located effectively.  My bench is also too short (ironic, because I got the design from Popularwoodworking, which is where Chris Schwarz works).  Schwarz's advice on vices and bench dogs are very helpful and eye-opening.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on August 23, 2007, 08:45:10 PM
Lee Valley has bench plans and bench vises, but quite pricey.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dodgy Loner on August 27, 2007, 05:31:09 PM
Yep, next time I built a bench I intend to buy a wood tap and die set to make my own bench vises.  You can spend a lot of money in a hurry on a vise.  The bench plans offered by Lee Valley, ironically, are really too wimpy to be useful to the avid hand tool user.  No need to buy plans, anyway, when there are better plans available for free on the internet.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on August 27, 2007, 06:11:15 PM
Dodgy, they have some beefy benches to, unless they discontinued them since I got my last catalog back in 2000. Those tap and dies for big wood screw vises aren't cheap either I would imagine.  ;)

A friend had an old bench with wood screw vises, I don't know what became of it. Except maybe the lady that looked after the old timer got them because she also works with wood some. I know she got the house. The old timer had no family 'cept nieces and nephews that rarely visited. He could be a tough old fart to take because he was a know it all type who could be quite critical. After awhile people get tired of the attitude.  :-X
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 27, 2007, 11:22:27 PM
The Workbench Book is a good read as well. Those wooden screws sound like a good use for beech.


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dodgy Loner on August 28, 2007, 12:13:57 PM
Woodcraft has some very reasonably priced woodthreading kits that I've had my eye on.  Not cheap, but easier to swallow than a $200 bench vise.  Here's a link to their website: Woodcraft's woodthreading kits (http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=792).
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 28, 2007, 10:24:47 PM
I was doing some blacksmithing at Hancock Shaker Village today so I went upstairs to the cabinet shop and snap a few pictures of their big workbench. I'd make one of these but it is almost as big as my garage. I also got a picture of one of the tool cabinets. I am thinking of building something similar to this cabinet.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/workbench.JPG)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/toolbox.jpg)


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Patty on August 29, 2007, 06:32:26 PM
WOW what an awesome shop!

Morton called last week to say ours will be put up in 4 weeks.  8)  Then the real work begins.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on August 29, 2007, 10:48:15 PM
That building is called the Tan House, where the Shakers used to tan leather. When they went out of the tanning business they converted the main floor into a cabinet shop, complete with water powered table saws. ;) Down stairs they filled in the tanning vats and put in two giant cider presses and a blacksmith shop, that is where I work. Did you know the circular saw blade was supposedly invented there by a woman using her spinning wheel?


Dave
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on August 30, 2007, 06:58:07 PM
Look at them wide floor boards. ;D
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: Dave Shepard on February 20, 2011, 09:31:11 PM
I was rummaging around in the Forestry Forum Attic and found this old thread. I've gained a lot of experience, books and tools, but no bench. :D I've recently purchased the last of the tools I'll need to try dovetailing, but from my other woodworking endeavors, I've realized it isn't going to be much fun without a proper bench. I have the workbench books from Landis and Schwarz. That blue bench above is the one in the Landis book. I've decided I want something similar to what Klausz built.
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: SwampDonkey on February 20, 2011, 09:46:21 PM
I've got no room for something like that. I do have lots of counter space, but most work ends up on the table saw or a 4'x6' plywood table. Any chiseling on the table saw of course, solid iron behind a chisel hammer. ;D

I did send in another order for table braces and ended up getting a couple cans of tool and bearing lubricants. 8)
Title: Re: Woodworking with old hand tools.
Post by: terrifictimbersllc on February 21, 2011, 12:36:06 PM
Not hand tools only, but might as well be, and if James Krenov is for you, this book is unforgettable.  http://www.amazon.com/Fine-Art-Cabinetmaking-James-Krenov/dp/0806985720