I have heard varying thoughts on this topic from friends and coworkers. What are your thoughts on listening to music while milling? I know a couple of you (at least) use the ear muffs with the radio built in. Some people have said it is an unnecessary distraction that could increase the chance of injury. I was considering putting my ipod in my pocket and running the ear buds inside my shirt (so they dont get snagged) and putting my ear muffs over the buds. what are the thoughts, concerns of the board on this?
In the context of my high school and middle school classes, I do not allow anyone in the shop to wear earphone or headphones. I was not too concerned about it at first, but the first time I tried to get the attention of a student who had put in earphones then covered them with earmuff type hearing protection I considered it to be an incredible safety hazard. I have a rather loud voice and no amount of yelling on my part could get the boy's attention through the music he was listening to. Someone had to tap him on the shoulder in the end.
I personally get a lot of information about the saw I am running from the sound of the machinery. Although it would be tempting, I don't think I could ever bring myself to listen to music or anything similar due to the distraction.
IMHO,
Jim
I would go nuts if I didn't have music while sawing. To listen to that engine drone all day every day is just too much. I keep the music/talk radio down to a level that I can still hear the engine for feedback and when others are present, I keep an eye on them whether I have the radio on or not, so they can easily get my attention. Often, day after day of radio gets to me as well and I turn the headphones off for a while till the cycle repeats.
I'm pretty much with Brad. I listen to the radio to break the cycle of the day. Talk shows, news and weather will slow you down, since you have to concentrate on 2 things. Music can either slow you down or make you go really fast, depending on the type of music.
I try to keep mine to a level to hear the equipment.
QuoteI personally get a lot of information about the saw I am running from the sound of the machinery.
Well said, and can be true with other machinery as well. Any deviation from the normal sound, can give you a heads-up to a potential disaster. A well oiled machine should be music to your ears?
Someday I hope to hear that song! :D
I've spent my whole life in a machine shop and music has often been a way of passing the day. But when it something where you need to hear the cutting action or it's kind of a touchy situation I still turn off the music so I have no distractions and can hear anything that might give me a hint that somethings wrong. In which case you can often stop a situation at its infancy rather than when its a full blown CRASH. Now with a 5 or 6 tooth blade whipping around at over 200 mph I'll be listing to nothing but the mill. My Vote: Leave the IPOD home.
Firebass
Depends on the music. Birds chirping is ok.
But this weird thumpety thump music makes me think an earth quake happened, and the classical sounds like a slipping fan belt!
:D :D
N
I do a lot with my ears. Hearing a machine eventhough I wear inner and outer protection is important.
What's not good is when guys wear head phones playing music, then they have to compete with the machine and by the time the volume is high enough, they're into the 100 plus db range and that's doing damage. Better to have the music on a speaker system, and wear hearing protection in that case.
I wonder how well those noise cancelling head phones work?
Doing machine shop work, making syrup, woodshop in the basemant, i'll have music on. Not sawing though - I want to hear the mill, the motor, blade, whatever. On those headphones & loud music subject - 2 workers at our house, one had to climb over the Jacuzzi, hit the air switch & didn't know it - It can't run dry - Melted the pump right off the end of the motor, could have burned our hose down, cost them a lot to replace it, whole hose stunk like burning plastic. Loud music and work just don't go together.
I work on Boston commercial/industrial construction jobs. 95% of the contractors will not allow raidos or headphones for saftey reasons. I personally dont have a problem on jobs with it but I would agree with the need to hear your macine while sawing. If you can pause the music while in the cut, the rest of the time should be ok
Quote from: jpgreen on March 19, 2007, 10:47:03 AM
I wonder how well those noise cancelling head phones work?
Not very well. I tried a pair and they didn't cut the sound much at all. Wrong frequency, I think. Worked better in the Bobcat.
No way on the music, whether it's on the mill or in the woodshop. I need to hear the machine. The sound it makes tells me what it's doing. If it's repetitive and relatively safe work, I guess it could be OK. I usually have the radio on in the shop, so when the tools are off I can listen to it.
I use a set of Peltor Worktunes on my chainsaw helmet, was using them today actually. I have a Sirius sattelite reciever in the truck and just park it alongside the mill a few feet away, so Im always in the "tune zone" ;D. I find they are great, good fast rock tunes can make the lumber really fly.
They seem to not go very loud compared to most headphones, being made by a hearing protection company :). I had them cranked today and could still hear the engine and the blade cutting over the tunes. I could hear that ssshhhhhhh noise the blade makes when cutting, and when it goes away (when the blade is wandering).
Quote from: Brad_S. on March 18, 2007, 09:05:57 AM
I would go nuts if I didn't have music while sawing...and when others are present, I keep an eye on them whether I have the radio on or not, so they can easily get my attention...
I agree. I saw most of the time with my brother as tailman/edgerman, and we have almost a 6th sense working together. We have simple hand signals for almost everything we need to say when were cutting (how wide? 10". that one good? nope.). Most of the time in an industrial setting like that you cant hear a thing anyway, and you need to be "heads up" all the time. I also like em for planing lumber, driving a noisy cabless tractor thru the woods, or lots of those other simple tasks that are noisy and boring. I even wear them sometimes sharpening blades, the sound of 2 grinders at the same time will drive you nuts... :D
I don't listen to music or the radio while milling. I too like to hear the mill and what it's telling me. I also find it easier to concentrate on the job at hand with no distractions. I do listen to the radio, mostly talk, when in the woodshop. I keep the volume at a level where the machinery can be heard over the radio.
Snag: dont you love it when people dont actually answer your question? (Like I did ;D) Id say the ear buds inside of muffs would work fine (its almost like what I have goin on). The muffs will cut most of the outside noise and you can just turn the volume up to where you can still hear the machinery over the music. I also think, IMHO, that if you are gonna get distracted/injured in a noisy environment with muffs on (or plugs), tunes or no tunes probably wont make much of a difference... Ive seen people working in noisy areas who seem to get distracted by a bird flying by :D
Might I suggest you have the volume control handy, or be able to unplug the earbuds in a hurry if you want/need to? Thats one thing I like about the Peltors, the volume is on the back of my right earmuff, and with the flick of a finger I can go from full volume to shut off just like that...
Quote from: LT40HDD51 on March 20, 2007, 10:03:44 AM
................., the volume is on the back of my right earmuff, and with the flick of a finger I can go from full volume to shut off just like that...
Jus hope at that sudden moment of need that you have a free hand with a finger to do that task......... :)
Some say cell phones while drivin are no distraction as well....... ::)
but I'm not agin anyone doin it the way they wanta do it. Some good points brought up in this thread to consider, as I see it.
If I need music while milling, I'll sing or whistle. I can manipulate the switch on that venue, with no thought or movement. If others don't like my whistling or singing, they can...leave.
I have trashed more than one radio on a jobsite. Generally only takes one good chunk of 2X4 or well-applied hammer at medium to high velocity to generate the sufficient energy.
A little low-level talk or music (intentionally without going into particulars) floating around the air, out of the way, and unobtrusive, is acceptable.
But, never, would ear-pluggings or coverings (for piping in non-related distractions) be allowed with myself, or anyone else under the color of my responsible environment.
When working around and/or with others, it is always best to keep a communication field open and clear. I find the same to be true when working with only myself, as well.
Certainly, I understand pace and rythm to work. I have no problem accomplishing that with my own energy, whether working alone, or with others 'in tow'.
It is dangerous enough work, milling, sawing, felling, etc., around working machinery and the inherent human factor, without constraining the senses with non-applicable distractions.
You asked. ;D
There is a radio in the barn that houses the mill, cab saw, jointer, SCM and planer. about the only time it gets turned on is when I am doing maintenance on one of the former. I tend to do finish work in the workshop by the house wherein I have a 400cd unit and wireless headphones. The unit is often on when I am in the workshop.
I also have a set of Peltor radio/muffs. I wear these when mowing, moving logs, building roads or most imes I am on the tractor or crawler. I can still hear the motors but the music is soothing plus it helps to keep track of time. When felling I wear only the muffs attached to the safety helmet. No music. I want to hear what the tree is telling me.
There is a time for tunes and a time for attentive listening. to everything, turn ,turn turn . . .
Thanks for all the input. I, like Brad, find myself going nuts at times on certain logs. I am going to try the buds and muffs and see what I can hear and play it by ear from there. :) Bad pun, I know.
I'd be willing to bet a dollar to a donut that Ron Wenrich's saw time and mine, added together, would probably be more then most coud fathom. Like Ron, I always, always had a radio on. I can say I was in tune with my saw. Any vibration any little breath of change was enough to laser attention to what may or may not be developing. Music had zero effect on safety or mechanical difficulities but had a lot to do with production. I listened to all kinds of music and the style and beat could certainly influence the rythm of sawing. If I needed to really push the wood over short periods of time, songs like BTO moving down the highway, or similar fast paced songs served as a tool to get you going and keep you where you needed to be. Ted Nugent music with rapid fire guitar lics also would help push the saw. Other types of music would serve as long term sawing boosters. If I knew I was in for a 12 to 16 hour shift, I would need something slower but bright. Music and listening to the radio got me through 25 years in the saw booth.
Now how did I know The Nuge was going to make his way into this thread ;)? He rocks, hunts may as well help get some sawin done
Quote from: Snag on March 20, 2007, 04:15:05 PM
Thanks for all the input. I, like Brad, find myself going nuts at times on certain logs. I am going to try the buds and muffs and see what I can hear and play it by ear from there. :) Bad pun, I know.
I like music. A lot. Perhaps that is one reason I'm not real keen on 'mixing my pleasures'. Now, when I am in a more controlled envrionment (like working in the shop without a lot of other 'electrical buzz'), then I can listen to music a bit better.
And, of course, a lot of my 'habits' in the work environment come from environments where/when such a thing was not even thought of.
When I am running my mill, I am also doing all the other things which go along with it (washing/debarking logs,loading, deciding log/cant, moving/stacking lumber, maintaining the mill, etc., etc.) and I really never think of the need to expand otherwise.
Having been in the building/remodeling business for as long as I was, I had folks that would want to have radio playing while working. But, it never really worked out well.
Certain areas/times it was ok. Putting on comp shingles, once roof was laid out and it was just nailing on shingles, no real problem.
I started easing out of that business structure before these compact thingamajigs came along.
A lot of times, would be working with owners present and always have to be cognizant of their sensitivities. Doing new finish work inside, without owners, then it was pretty much ok. Long as it didn't get disruptive.
I've seen lots of blood on jobsites (though, fortunately, very little on mine) and a body part or two every now and then where it ought not be. Having several folks around, working with power tools, slinging lumber, climbing, working off scaffolds, electricity, ladders, etc, etc., spontaneous and clear communication is a must for safety.
Working on apartment/townhouse complexes, etc., work around lots of different crews and get to see a lot of what different work ethics can provide.
Now, all that being said, if there weren't a cup of coffe hanging around somewhere pretty close, well, then I might get a little bugged. :D
I'm a Worktune user too. There is no problem with hearing the saw over the music or the talk shows I normally listen to. While some may think of the radio as distracting I find that it helps me stay alert. Listening to a motor all day tends to "zone me out".
Mark
The key to background music is KEEP IT IN THE BACKGROUND.
I have a real problem with this on my day job. A small factory with a lot of routine machining, milling ,welding functions and a lot of entry-level young guys who have a secret wish to go deaf before they die - even if it means the same day :o ???
My final warning to them : I can break more stereos than you can buy >:(
Some are starting to wear Ipods , if I have to hit them to get their attention I don't do it lightly.
After 8 hours of that I work( or play) in total silence at home.
I think boredom and complacency are more dangerous than music. That is why I liked quartersawing bigh logs that had lots of problems. Always kept me thinking about what I was doing.
Music and work go hand in hand for me, though I dont have the facility to listen to music while sawing (seeing as that it is usually doing a demo). My mates and I always rely on music to get the creativity flowing when we break/fixing/breaking cars and suddenly realise that we dont have the right tool to fix/break something :D
lumber jack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9dzYI30VGs) Something Id endorse listening to while whackin up some logs, It'll go with the theme of the days work.
Anyone heard the tune "The Lumberjack" by Jackall? Sweet chainsaw solo :D
In the link lt40 ,thought you guys would like it
Whoops ;D. Never seen the video, thats great :D. Yeah, it came on the satellite the other day while we were working. I agree, great tune for whackin up some logs ;D
QuoteHaving been in the building/remodeling business for as long as I was, I had folks that would want to have radio playing while working. But, it never really worked out well.
Yup, been there myself, and sometimes was forced to listen to "their" country music for the day. It made it an awful work environment. :D :D
On a serious note, I will say, I cannot stand radio commercials! I would rather have silence than listen to that repetitive balderdash. Not to mention the same songs are played over and over again. Don't they know Zepplin had more than three songs? ;D
I say....to each their own. Music certainly has it's place and affects on each individual. If you like music while working, play it.
Hmmmm....notable you should mention Zepplin, rvrdivr.
Was just one of those times music on the site didn't work too well.
Had to have been quite a bit earlier on, as "Gallows Pole" came on, ended up dropping the 2X12 I was puttin' up on the horses, that DanG left leg started doing its thing, then the right, then next thing you know, was covering about a half acre, then the whooping started, nostrils flared, ears pricked, and started looking for someone to scalp. Fortunately, song ended about that time, and the hands were in the truck with the doors locked.
No one mentioned radio for a good, long while.
Hmmm...so what a think about rap music? :D :D
Quote from: rvrdivr on March 23, 2007, 05:58:56 PM
Hmmm...so what a think about rap music? :D :D
It is one of my pristinely cultivated disciplines not to.
smiley_divide
A Notation
That discipline was not arbitrarily obtained. In the spirit of objectivity, I did a bit of research.
My personal conclusion was that I believe it evolved from an earlier work performed by Cheech Marin.
The beat quite parallel, and the lyrics have since been, obviously, unobtainable by recent day application.
"My Daddy talka to me, try to tell me how to live.
bada-bump bada-bump bada-bump bada-bump bomp-baBut, I don't listen to him, 'cause my head is like a sieve."
etc.
:D
Ear ache my eye!
Quote from: rvrdivr on March 23, 2007, 05:58:56 PM
Hmmm...so what a think about rap music? :D :D
Its one of the few personal preferences that can result in my banning a member from the forum. dangle_smiley
I get tired of talking all day to folks. Get home , fire up the manual mill after dinner and saw a log- got my MP3 with cajun, Dr. John or Tower of Power. It keeps me loose. Then I go to stackin'....same thing. Keeps me loose. Got both eyes, both ears, and all 21.
You can't make someone safe. You can make all the rules you want but a person has to be careful him/herself. Tell them to be safe for the others that will have to find you and clean up the mess.
We had a fella get crushed in a machine at the plant. Long timer in the area. Taking a shortcut that he'd taken before and tripped some kind of switch when blowing out. Pretty messy. So the corporate guys are still coming down 6 weeks later trying to assign blame. Someone's going to be a fall guy as an example.
Bad stuff happens. It's not the tunes fault. Now, cell phone users while driving! There should be open season on them!!! They could get me killed! They're dangerous!
...And it dont bother me, if you dont think Im funny,
cause Im a big rock star, and I make a lotsa money, money, money, money......... ;D
Quote from: rvrdivr on March 23, 2007, 05:25:48 PM
...On a serious note, I will say, I cannot stand radio commercials! I would rather have silence than listen to that repetitive balderdash. Not to mention the same songs are played over and over again. Don't they know Zepplin had more than three songs? ;D ...
All the more reason to get a satellite reciever. Mine was about $100 and $10/month. Uninterrupted, commercial free, non-repetitive rock n roll anywhere on the planet = priceless. ;D