The Forestry Forum

Tammy and I are finally the owners of a chunk of property in the U.P. just down the road from our family's cabin. Our Friend Lou Kurtis lives across the road and owns just short of a section. Our chunk of the U.P. is 20 acres. Its mostly old growth cedar that Lou says has looked the same since he used to haul hay by it 65 years ago, and Lou said his Dad told him it was old cedar when he was a boy as well. Its really a unique chunk of land that Tammy and I want to preserve and protect as well as utilize without negative impact of what had been there for centuries now.

Lou has told me that we need to post the land because in recent years he has noticed a few locals have came to consider it public property, simply because no one is ever around it, it is not fenced, or does it have signs.  The property also has a power line easement that occasionally becomes a short cut for snowmobiles, but my understanding is that it cannot be fenced off or gated or access restricted to power company for maintenance purposes.

I'm looking for opinions on what kind of signage to use that will be convincing, but not threatening. (no trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot twice) :D

I was thinking simply private property, but I dont know. :-\   The other extreme I was thinking "Forestry Forum Bio Testing Forest"  with the hazardous waste insignia on it. :D

Here is a link on flash earth to the property.
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=46.013312&lon=-84.047213&z=17.8&r=0&src=msl

I dont' think any sign will keep out those that are intent on tresspassing. A few "private property" or "no tresspassing" signs will at least keep a few of the more honest people away.
Nice looking piece of land. Now all you have to do is build a little cabin on it and you will be all set.

Boss,

People will take advantage of your property.  Posting it is a paramount.

"Posted.  No Trespassing.  Violators will be Prosecuted" is the most common sign I see in the South.  In some states, you cannot prosecute people for unauthorized use of your land if it is not posted.  Not sure about Meechegen.

Not sure if we build a little cabin, or even possibly make a bigger leap then that and flat out move some day.  The kids are grown, this house and property values here have increased in value to the point where we could probably sell it and build up there and put the extra in the bank. There is some very nice aspen on the higher ground as well as Larch spruce, white and yellow birch that could be taken with minimal impact to build with.  Ron Scott and I will be making a trip soon so Ron can help me evaluate what we can do to reach our goals. I plan on using these experiences, as a never before forestland owner to create some information for those that come on the forum that need to learn the things I need to learn. Ron and I will document what we do, Kevin is coming down to help me learn some tree safety while taking trees to saw for our future building plans, We have an old fellow up there that is a retired surveyor but still licensed, and we need to have the lines marked so we can as Ron advised, (manage to your property lines). All of these things we try to do and learn, we will document for the Forestry Forum to help people avoid the problems we may encounter along the way, or perhaps answer questions that get answer for us.  I think it will be a great thing. :) 

The property seems to be almost sent to us. We got an amazing deal on it and things came together like I never could have dreamed possible considering my past luck with anything. :D I want to do my best to keep it a special place.  I was lucky enough to spend most of my deer season on it while my offer was pending the owner let me use it. We are going up this weekend to see what it looks like after a sudden thaw and the break of spring. :)

Congratulations Jeff....there is nothing like owning your own little chunk of paradise. This will be a VERY exciting time for you and the missus...thanks for sharing it with us!!

Man Jeff, that is GREAT! How good that must feel for you and the wifey. It will of course look different in spring and you will be looking through owners eyes, oh what a beautiful sight! Congratulations. I sold my sign business last year, but I still hate the necessity for them. No advice there, just really happy for you.
Ledlie

It will look different this time because it is yours.................

Congratulations Jeff!  That's a great feeling on finding a property like that and I am sure you will will enjoy your time there.

As far as the signs, I would advise going slowly, at least at first. If the users are locals and they get angry because you start out threatening, they can cause a lot of trouble while you are not there. Just some "private property" signs to let them know there is a new owner and even a neighborly visit to the local property owners to introduce youself would be best.

If they don't honor that then 

                                              smiley_bull_stomp

I had the same trouble here.Hadn't been anyone living here for 25 years.I posted land out behind the house to keep hunters away.Don't need anyone one shooting towards my house.Had one "group" tell me they have been hunting that land for years and they had a "right" to keep on doing it.I know the family.Been in my family longer than they have been alive.I would be real careful on it from now on anything that is posted.I could post all my land and keep everyone off it.I don't mind people walking,sking or whatever,just don't drive on my land and keep away from the house.It can be kinda hard,but has to be done.I have not had any problems that I know of.

I have a sign on a private road that works great, i'll get a picture. I t says STOP PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESSPASSING NO WARNINGS

Congratulations Jeff and Tammy.  8) 8)

We have 2 signs, on each side of da road(in case dey was lookin' right widda sign on da left) a couple hundred yards in with a convenient turn around so they don't have to go in any further.
Also have one in the Cabin Window just in case they missed the first 2. :D
Although it is hard for us to police. It may keep an honest person honest.
A couple people have asked us if they can hunt there and have granted them permission. Others probably hunt there anyway.  We have dreams on moving there when the time gets right. That place is my motivation everyday. ;)  Good Luck guys.

How bout.  " Da dawg don't bite but da owner might." :D

Jeff,
  COOL 8)

When the Mrs. and I bought our acerage a few years ago I went and bought enough posted signs to go all the way around the 62 acres. Our land had also been empty and un-posted for 30+ years. Seemed like everyone hunted there! Including me!
During the first weeks that I was clearing trees to put our home in, Sandy asked if she could put up some signs. Sure I says.
She came back a couple of hours later, I asked howed it go? She handed me about 5 signs " here is whats left" she says. "Oh great, you did the whole property line"! " No, I just did the two roads".  :o :o
I went and looked, signs about every third tree :D :D
I have NEVER had any one even ask if they can hunt on our land!
I have had to take alot of good natured ribbing from nieghbors and friends, " Hey, you got enough posted signs up?" :D

mh

I put up some 'Private Land' signs along a main road. Found one guy a couple years ago tipping my fir and he said he thought it was crown land after driving by a couple signs out front. I knew he was lying and he didn't even have a tipping permit for crown either. Also, he drove across the neighbor's field and over behind a little hump to be hidden from view of the road. He  was a little startled to say the least when he realized I was standing about 20 feet from him when he was snapping tips off my fir.  ::)

What ever you do Jeff, don't drop off any yard limbs or raspberry canes on the front of your lot when doing yard work around the house. That will just invite people to dump their garbage on your land. I had that conversation with father, but he wouldn't listen. So about a week later I had to post against dumping.  Someone in that span dropped off their old tires, PVC sewer pipes, old asphalt shingles and nail ridden lumber, right next to the raspberry canes. >:(

Put signs on posts rather than trees.  Whenever I find one 1 1/2" roofing nail, I look for the other 3 before sawing.

We discovered the availability of the property last October when I was up hunting. We were dead broke and worse when the sign went up. We had the possibility of some money coming our way if the insurance company ever paid my back comp that they were disputing, but didn't know if or when that would ever happen.

The property has two parcels between me and my sister a typical 80 next to me owned by the farmer down on the corner, and a long 40 next to my sister owned by a fellow in down state Michigan who has become a friendly neighbor to them. My chunk is on the corner. It has a quarter mile frontage on N. Caribou which is paved, and it has an eighth of a mile on Peisley which is gravel. There is an ancient driveway on Caribou that simply ends about 30 feet after it crosses the ditch.

I have a picture of me walking into that drive back in February.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_4.jpg)

The property also has a 100 foot power line easement that runs from the road corner  and cuts out the back dividing the property with about 2/3rds on one side and a third on the other.  I see this power line as a good thing other then the access problems it creates. Its a ready made clearing for food plots and holds a lot of grouse on its edges.
Here is a photo from when I was hunting, looking down the powerline towards the corner.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_3.jpg)   
Everything, as mentioned, just seemed to work out to get it.  I saw the signs go up and I called Tammy to tell her about it on my cell. We had admired the property for years as we drove by it, and I had known of it and watched deer cross into it since I was a kid going to Drummond Island with my dad.  We decided that day to call the realtor and at least inquire. OUCH! Well, what did we have to lose, we made a ridiculous offer on it of less then 1000 an acre two days later after I had walked the property several times.  The Realtor didnt expect the offer to go anywhere as this was prime time to sell land there as hunters were coming up and caribou is the main road of travel via Sault St.Marie and Detour Village.

Two days after we made the offer, we were hit by a big early October snow storm. over 12 inches of wet heavy snow. That was our first break. The snow plow came down the road and just leveled and buried the only for sale sign. Of course I kept my mouth shut. ;D  The sign remained down (realtor should have checked it!) through all of October and deep into November. The seller, not getting any offers other then mine and one other (I offered cash I didnt have the other guy wanted terms and a long land contract), gave me a counter offer. I countered back with 1000 an acre, but said I needed until January 15th to pay as we felt our insurance dispute would be cleared up by Christmas. The fellow accepted (this was a trust sale, the nephew selling for a deceased uncle).  Well, come Christmas, we still didnt have any money and no indication if we ever would. I called the realtor and asked if the seller would give us an extension. He agreed without asking for any more earnest money until the last day of February. After that, he would be open to other offers. Well, as things worked out, we did get enough money the DAY before the deadline. Enough to buy the property, put our well and septic system in here and have a couple thousand left to bank for the times when there is two much month at the end of the money. Originally we were going to pay our mortgage off, but decided this was the way to go as we only have 3 years left until our home is paid off.

Well, we went to the bank to get the check for the property as it had to be to the title company the next day and guess what. The bank put a 48 hour hold on the check we had received. Putting us one day beyond the deadline. We called the realtor, told her the situation which she totally understood, she called the seller, and there was no problem waiting the extra couple days. SO! Long story made shorter, we now own, free and clear 20 acres of woodland for the first time in our lives. Something we always had dreamed of but never saw possible. :)

The property, if you look it up in google earth, is about two miles as the crow flies to Lake Huron, two miles to the St. Marie river and Lime Island, and about two miles from Canada across the water.

Here is a photo of Tammy standing by a couple of what is a typical cedar on the property.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_2.jpg)

This I took with the timer during Deer season in November.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_1.jpg)

I am pleased that y'all could get that property.  There is nothing more relaxing (and tiring ;D) than working out on my property.  Just think, you get to do timber management, wildlife management, and poacher management :D. 

There is some pretty nice Eastern Larch on the Property that I will keep close tabs on as they seem to have a pretty limited life span in this area.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_5.jpg)

Potential bear den I found last deer season created by by a wind thrown cedar. The cavity was plenty big enough for two of me and dry. To bad I obseved there were no bear around during bear season. :D The cedar is bigger then it looks. Probably about 16 inch dbh

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_6.jpg)

I like old cedar stands that have yellow birch scattered in through them. They tend to be the most productive kind because yellow birch doesn't like it real wet. Sometimes you can find some real monster yellow birch on those sites.  ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_yellowbirch-wlt-023.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_yellowbirch-wlt-014.jpg)


Some of those old stands are like parkland if there isn't a lot of dead fir on the ground. I aged some cedar like those on dad's old farm and they were 160-250 years old. Since your ground is relatively a small parcel you probably won't need much for roads. Maybe your larch has some saw fly problems. The last 6 or 8 years they have eaten up a lot of larch around here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_BigTrees-Ce.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Ce-Stand1.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Ce-Stand2.jpg)

It all begins here. ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_PlantID1.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_PlantID3.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14805/PICT0266.JPG)
here is one sign I use

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14805/PICT0267.JPG)
Here is the other

Jeff,  First, congrats on the land purchase.  As our local auctioneer says: "Land - they ain't making any more."

Regarding signs.  In my mind, depends on the tone you want to set with the neighbors.  What is customary for the area ?  Do you want to keep ALL people off of it ALL the time, or just some people, or just during hunting season ?  

I lived in a rural area of NE PA for 4 years.  Many families and farms in the same families for generations.  Everyone knew everyone.  Permission to fish or hunt on a farm just required asking.  Everyone viewed the deer as nuisance.  So more deer in the freezer meant fewer deer in the corn or alfalfa.  I can't remember any of the long time residents turning one another down.

OTOH, the area was also succombing to farms being broken up.  Due to close proximity to NYC and NJ, many parcels were purchased by "flat landers" (the typical term of endearment for city folks in that area).  And flat landers typically led to "Jersey Wall Paper" which was the local term for putting up "No Trespassing" signs on every other tree.  Sometimes for the entire road frontage of a parcel.

Definitely, you do not want people dumping trash, or otherwise destroying your property.  But, if you think you will move there someday, might want to consider how the tone and approach of the signage you put up will affect the neighbors.  As some one stated earlier, a sign only keeps an honest man honest.  The no-good-niks will never pay attention to the sign.

But again, congrats on purchasing the property....

Warren

I agree, you have to keep the neighbors happy. Just be carefull, the whole deal got out of control with me. One person brought a friend, then they brought 2 friends and so on. I let friends and neighbors on my property..but no vehicles. Also, I don't mess with posters. I have the property lines marked well. My neighbor dose the poster thing every year, most get torn down.

The Tamaracks seem to get busted off by the wind. Most I have saw that were broke were  pictured below. This tree is alive, or at least it was last fall. It has a huge spherical nest in it, I am guessing to be a squirrels nest made of Cedar. Never saw anything like it before as its almost 6 feet in diameter.  I took quite a few photos last year of a property that I figured I never had a chance to actually own. :D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_8.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_7.jpg)

     If you do move up there do you know anybody with a portable sawmill?

     Great pic of YOUR land. 8) 8) 8)

     Thanks Alot Mr Mom

Um, yea, ME!  :D   Actually, they are all over up there. My neighbor Lou has a 1994 Wood-Mizer LT40 with less then 200 hours on it that has never been out of his sawbarn where he used it to saw cedar to build his home. He knows I am first in line if he ever decides to get rid of it.  :DCustom sawing up there would be a rough row to hoe cause there are mills hiding all over around there.  :)

Congratulations on the land.  It's what dreams are made of.  As somebody already noted they ain't makin no more of it.

Personally I don't like signs as they seem unfriendly but at the same time I like trespassers even less.  Guess your going to have to use signs being an absentee owner.  Is there a purple paint law in the UP?  If not there should be.

Around these parts the power companies have no problem with a gate or fence across there easement.  All they want is access for maintenance and that is accomplished by double locking the gate.  A power company lock and your lock.

In light of what you're doing there maybe you could buffalo them with a different look:

   EXPERIMENTAL WOODLOT

     DO NOT DISTURB

It would make me wonder what the heck is going on   ;)

I don't mind people walking or hunting my ground, just don't leave garbage and damage my trees. And my trails are too wet for ATV's so don't tear up my ground. When you take away the mode of travel for most people they will not venture in if they haven't a cushion under their butt. Not hardly anyone posts land here, just have to respect the land and resist any temptation to be a destructive slob.

 8) 8) 8)

Congrats Jeff and Tammy! 

Feels good don't it?

There are a few good reasons for posting your property.  Mostly liability issues.  A good less offensive sign is 'Please, no tresspassing.  Hunting by permission only.'  The good folks will ask for permission and it gives you an oppportunity to explain your concerns, i.e. no nails, no screw in steps, no trash.
My signs (an example can be seen on the marking boundaries thread) Simply state Private Property, No Trespassing, No Hunting - if you cross this boundary you accept whatever fate befalls you.
I put that last bit on there due to the many trees I have girdled.  Those trees fall and can be dangerous.  I did not go the hunting with permission route because I did not want to fool with hunters at all.  My family and I are all the hunters needed.
Occasionally I have to run some atv'er done and explain why I do not allow atvs on the property.  Each time I had to do that it was either raining or just stopped.  The damage they caused was easily evident so there was not much discussion.  They always say they are sorry but never offer to help repair the damage. 

Well I think it's darn cool you guys are landowners, especially in such a pretty part of the country.  :)

When we bought our place it had been a rental farm for 50 years or so and most folks treated it like their own. I went out and posted it on the corners of the property, basically no trespassing signs. Any adjacent owners understood completely, those that didn't were the ones that I wouldn't allow on anyways. First couple of years we had a few problems but that went away.

Hope your able to move up their eventually and build your retirement home. Now don't worry about making my guest bedroom too fancy....I wouldn't want to impose. :D

Congratulations on a nice piece of land.  Those big cedars look real nice.   Just to be able to look at something that old is worth much more than making a bunch of lumber.  I can imagine the thrill you will get over and over each time you take a walk.
I expect you will have hard decisions o which trees to cut unless they are dead or dying when you build your cabin.  It is amazing how things can come together to make a deal work.

Jeff

Now that you completed the purchase, you should go back to the seller and ask if he still has any of the historical information on the property that he would be willing to share or at least see. If this was an estate sale, they may just dispose of any papers, pictures, etc. that belonged to the owner.

Can't hurt to ask.

Gary_C. I did just that through the realtor early on in the sale. I told her since I was going to be the new steward of this land I was very interested in what the previous owner's history was (it had been owned by the same fellow for 50 years)  She got back with me a copuple days later saying the owner had no history, that he only knew it was his uncle's who lived in Ohio, as did the seller, and that he never knew of his uncle going to Michigan, and it was simply property to be liquidated.  :-\   Lou told be that in all his live (78 years)  that all they ever knew was  that someone from "down south"  owned the property and that he doesnt remember anyone ever visiting it.

I hope in possible coming years the location doesn't stop folks from coming to the pig roast!!  :)

Go to the county seat and do a title search.  You should be able to take it back to the warrant deeds or whatever was used as the initial land grant. 

I used to do those for landowners and myself to get familiar with a tract of land.  I would find deeds that talked about houses and barns and the current land was all forested with no hosue or barn.  I even had one tract that had some pretty big timber where we found the remnants of an old snake fence on the boundary lines.  It was once a pasture.

Cedarman, there is places on the property that is awe inspiring. One small section on the end seems to be peet. No standing water as the property is very well drained,  where you can trace back generations of cedar tipping over and coming back up. Its park like in there and the cedars  are very nice.  This band of cedar crosses the road and goes over on to Lou's property. I plan on never cutting any live cedar, (depending on Ron's recommendation though) but Lou cut several of his when he built his home. He said he had to use a razor to keep track of the growth rings and that many of the trees were 200 years old plus. Some of my trees you can see where the old tree tipped and the new tree came up back 3 and 4 generations and the first tree is still visible. You gotta really be looking back in time. Some of those trees are in a slight arch from where they went over and they form benches that you can sit on.  I'm not painting a very good photo with words. It sounds like a cluster when I describe it.  :-\ What it seems more like to me when I was sitting in there is like a lush green park and and the oldest generations of cedars look like creatures rising up from and back into the ground and finally coming up and erupting into trees.

I for one sure hope to attend a pig roast there someday ;D

As far as signs,  It doesn't sound like there is any need for them.  You havn't mentioned any sort of vandalism,  dumping,  or tire ruts.  When you were there during hunting season,  you would probably have seen trespassing at the worst.  A visit with the neighbors would be my advice and would be a good thing to do anyway.  We have a few neighbors that have no respect for anyone or their property,  but signs are a waste of time to people like that.  Anyway if you put up a bunch of signs,  you're the one that has to look at them the most :-\

Congrats sounds great,and thanks for sharin. I would put a great big SOLD sign right out front. Pretty much says all. Stephen ::)

There was some evil signs of trespass by hunters.  I found two large cedars with Pole barn nails holding boards onto them for ladders so they could climb between them up to a micky mouse stand. I Dont think I want to post the whole thing, just something on the corner that denotes at least for awhile, that the property has new owners and is no longer "free range" so to speak.  Perhaps just my frequent presence there will do it.  I have the perfect place for a large sign on that corner though. :) I'm thinking that

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Would peak some curiosity. :)

"What are they doing in there?"  "I heard they are growing some form of mutant northern white cedars in there that can be mashed and eaten like grits." "There is some scary big dude that patrols it with a 44 mag on his hip"

Sometimes signs invite people to do damage instead of deter. It's worst if they know your an absentee owner. I did an appraisal for a family down in NY that owned land in the middle of nowhere (to my mind) and they thought they had good relations with the neighbors. They had bought the place back in the 60's era and had only visited the place once every ten years. There were buildings on the place at one time. I think the last time they visited the place was in 1997 and they discovered the buildings had been burnt down and they probably didn't go into the woods to see their state at the time. When I went there I found someone has a shack built there on the front and was then abandoned, but the occupant had been cutting wood for firewood and the rest of the lot looked like it had been cut 30 years ago, after the original purchase. The wood was small once you got 100 feet away from the road.  :-\

Hey Congrats Boss and Bossette!!!

We're just about to put signs up on our place...  Hanging off the back of the National Forest, with no road between, people see our lagoon on the map and just come on down for a swim...  Andy's found a few people driving through "not realising it was private property"...  (um BS! there were tractors and fuel drums and shipping containers on the clearing they parked in!!!).

My kids wanted to put a sign up that says: "Private Property, Trespassers will be mulched"

I think we'll just put proprietary "Private Property" signs up. Least offensive, it's obvious they were bought "off the rack".

asy :D

Congratulations, Jeff and Tammy  8) 8) 8) It sounds like a beautiful spot !

I'm so happy for you. Owning a chunk of forest was my lifetime ambition and only realized a few years ago.

I've had some trouble with trucks on the powerlines and trails. ATVs also. But I don't mind hunting ( on foot).

My handwritten signs say " Private Property No Wheels Cameras in Use"

Seems to have worked well.  ;)

Congrats on the land buy.  Looks like a place to visit soon.  Don't put dem signs up too fast.. ;D

Years back when we bought land that was the favorite hunting ground for many neighbors around, and were told they would still be hunting on it....I said, "ok, but just let me know when and who will be there ahead of time".  After that, I put a couple "no hunting without permission" signs up and never have had a problem. Doesn't mean you wont, but just another idea to think on. 
Coon hunters call ahead, and deer hunters for the most part just don't come onto the land. As well, the drivers don't drive it (except for a couple times over 40 years), which really surprises me.

I hunted with a fellow a couple years when I first moved to WI, and he was furious that there were so many "no trespassing" signs where he wanted to hunt. I stopped hunting with him when he just ignored them.  Couple years later, he bought 200 acres, and the first thing he did was put up the "No Trespassing" signs.  Ironic  :)

Enjoy the land buy, and I too, wouldn't jump to conclusions. :)

Just arrived in Rolla, MO ;D

I didn't post my land for years....till finally a couple incidents made me change my mind. One guy shot a deer on top of the one ridge and dragged it down to the edge of the yard before gutting it. Another involved a couple of LOUD 4x4s roaring up at 4 in the morning and turning around right by the house and then parking over by the pond on the 1st day of hunting season. And the other, someone drove 3" nails with reflectors on them in some of my nice cherry trees so they could find their way to their stand in the dark.  bat_smailey You wonder where these people come from...and the squalling they'd do if you did something like that on their property.

I put up signs that said 'No Hunting without Written Permission' and so far that has worked out fine. I don't mind someone hunting there if they are not afraid to give me their name and address. At least I'd know where to take some fresh deer guts if I needed to. ;D I also no longer allow ATV or four-wheelers on the property....one guy came to the house and asked permission for his father who was old and would only ride to the top of the hill and stay on his stand....found out later that he brought a friend and they both rode the ridges all day long. People will tell you they have hunted that property longer than you've been alive...well...they should have bought it then.

But seriously, Jeff, most people will respect your rights of ownership, but like different ones have said...go slow and don't alienate everyone right off the bat. You are going to do a lot of living in that beautiful spot, so keeping on good terms with the neighbors is a big step in the right direction.

Maybe to begin with, I should get the Realtor to keep a sold sign on it for a month or so until people see us up there and about the place.

Thanks for all the food for thought on this folks. :)

Congratulations on your " Forestry Farm"  8) 

Bob

This follows the same line of thinking OWW was talking about.
You may wanna talk with your current homeowner's insurance carrier about the property.
When we had our vacant lot, my folks homeowner's insurance covered it while it was vacant land for no extra cost, incase someone were to get hurt on the property. Visitors and tresspassers.
The only catch was, the property MUST be posted against tresspassing.
Talk to your insurance carrier and see what they require and post the minimum to meet their needs if they will cover it.



I know where Rolla is Beenthere.......... question is........ where ya heading ???

I did a little diving in the St Marys river up near Sault Saint Marie...how far are you from that, Jeff?

Furb
In Rolla to spend the night, and then on toward Little Rock tomorrow, hopefully finding Bro_noble and Arky on the way.
May even get grits fer breakfast.....(I'd better  ;D ) :) if we find the breakfast place recommended.

S'pose to be a nice day tomorrow.

Hope the signs are effective...... :)

Quote from: Greenedive on March 28, 2007, 10:52:59 PM
I did a little diving in the St Marys river up near Sault Saint Marie...how far are you from that, Jeff?

Not far at all. The river is less then two miles as the crow flies, the "Soo" is about a 45 minute drive and the closest thing to a "city". That is they have more then one gas station and a walmart.  :D

 8) 8) Congratulations!   I am so happy for you both. The land looks absolutely beautiful, and I know you will love caring for it. What an adventure!

I wish you both the best.  :)

I would not waste any time.  Get started immediately on the piggy roast accomodations.  You can trailer your cottage up there this weekend and start laying out the campgrounds, restroom facilities, bluegrass jam circle, tall tale tellin' circle (better make it real big), gossip circle for all the better halves and of course the foodmizer serving line.  Who knows maybe this year's roast will be the last for Harrison and some folk may be willing to travel up north after the roast to help put the finishing touches on the new facilities.
You can always start on your mansion later.  :D
Yooper land ain't never goin' to be the same.

Maybe we should have a timber frame raising party!  :)  Everybody bring a mill to cut a timber. Get her all cut in a couple hours. :)

Hmmm.  Sounds like a good time to me  8).  Is there a big open field nearby that the owner would not mind a few mills setting up in?  Maybe you could host the Great Lakes Congress and get some manufactures to harvest, buck and make timbers for you.  ;)

Quote from: OneWithWood on March 29, 2007, 02:00:35 PM
I would not waste any time.  Get started immediately on the piggy roast accomodations.  ........tall tale tellin' circle (better make it real big), gossip circle for all the better halves and of course the foodmizer serving line.  ...... Yooper land ain't never goin' to be the same.

:D :D :D :D

I have about 800 feet by 100 feet of power-line right of way that I plan on "farming". That oughta do it!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_9.jpg)

This will be one of my first chores. Killing and removal of this heavy impossible to walk through grass. There were new power poles put up a few years ago and the power company put some pretty nasty ruts down through there. Probably to nasty to just go in and brush hog it. I'm going to get a copy of the easement and see what it says about the leasing company's responsibility for that. They may not have any I guess, but then again...

Leave the deep ruts and start a cemetary for trespassers. ;D


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/no%20way%20out.JPG)

Borrow some goats for a couple months for the grass problem. Might even attract some bears with the goats. ;D  :D

Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 29, 2007, 05:54:49 PM
Might even attract some bears with the goats. ;D  :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D.....That ain't ever goin' away...... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I've had goats. They eat trees too. :(

Bears will eat more grass than goats will  ;D

Bears like oats , stooked or in a swathe. Goats like young poplars.

And thats all I have to say about that.

What's the grass?   It might be forage for something too if you manage it.  Get rid of it all at once and you may end up with a mud bog.

Maybe you should consider a truck farm.  Wildlife has always been a challenge to truck farmers.

No, dang-it!   I don't mean to plant chevy's and Fords.  What I mean is to plant something for ourself instead of for the wildlife.  They won't appreciate what you plant for them but will tear into anything you plant for yourself.  :P :D

Nothing eats it that I know of. It grows up tall, then lays flat to the first snow, doesnt seem to rot and is about impossible to walk through either when its standing or a flat tangle. While hunting I walked inside the woods rather then the powerline. Deer would only cross it in certain spots where the grass was thinner.  As far as I can see it's worthless, but I figure Ron can help me decide that for sure.

I do plan on planting something that would be more of a human plant. CORN!  On the end of the line near the road about 6 or 8 rows to block the view by vehicles during hunting season, and also a couple of divider rows in other places to block the view of the bucks from seeing does in the food plots I plan.  I dont want a buck coming to the end and looking the length to view the menu, and then going on to the neighbors place. I want him to have to travel mine to check several spots. :)

I'll probably also plant turnips and rape and clover.

I ate some rape that a customer's wife fixed one day.  It was good. MMM  Like collards, but milder.  I'll bet you can grow the fool out of cherry tomatoes there.  They tend to come back next year too. ;D

Sounds like you need a little tractor.  8)

I really do need one and running yours this past week sure made me wish I had one. :)

It sounds like you have canary grass (http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wq/plants/weeds/aqua011.html) growing there. We have it along our crick and it's very invasive. The only thing I've found that works is to kill it with roundup in the spring and replant with a grass that's native to your area. Even then it's a fight to keep it from coming back.

It could be Norm. I heard this stuff referred to as elephant grass but I don't think thats right. I'll see if I can get some pictures of the dead stuff when we go up tomorrow and see if we can identify the stuff.

What ever you plant the utility will most likely spray it.

Yes, Jeff will need to check out the utility rights-of-way terms and try to establish a partnership with them for agreed upon vegetation management if possible. He might be able to gate the rights-of-way access with a joint locking system as was previously mentioned.

One needs to get to know the local utility maintenance supervisor. Some are very good to work with when the landowner shows an interest and concern and then others are "not so good". A dialog needs to be established here especially when there seems to have been such a long absence of any management presence on the property over the years.

Congratulations again on your new property purchase, but condolences too if you will have to join us poor souls on dial up internet service. I am only 6.5 miles from town (32,000 feet from the main office) and my dial up service is getting worse every day. I leave it connected most all the time, but when I try to use it, it drops me.

There are no broadband providers with a signal in my area either.

Hope you have something available better than my service.   :(

Gary_C, lack of an adequate internet connection would definitely have an effect and be a deciding factor on us making a permanent move up there at this point. There are options to dial up but not cheap.  The Forum and my other website work insists on my having a fast connection or I wouldn't be able to do the things I do. Digital cell phone broadband is an increasing likely hood as alltel is supposed to be upgrading their system through the North. Harold Bobo and I were able to get on the forum from the cabin with a simple cell phone connection last fall, but it was as slow as dialup.

Down here, power line ROW's are very commonly planted in wildlife food plots.  If the area is kept well maintained and in grain/corn/sorghum etc., these areas do not get sprayed.  In fact, it saves the power line company a lot of money if the landowner keeps the woody stuff at bay.

Congrats Jeff !!!

I'll bet you have planned cabins etc. 50 different ways by now !

Congrats on the land purchase, boss. Feels good, dont it?  ;)

Im in much the same boat, just bought 36 acres from my girlfriends grandparents. River front, lots of nice mature pine and hemlock. Right in the middle of town, too, and I'm having problems with people thinking its public land and using it as a dog park/atv trail. Im planning gates right away (get the Lathe-Mizer wound up  ;D), and some kind of signs.

I sawed for a guy at his cabin at a lake out in the middle of nowhere. Hes had no trouble with burglars but the neighbours on both sides have both been cleaned out at least once. He has signs on the front and back of his cabin and his small garage saying:

"Property protected by "personal security system". Owner is hereby not liable for any personal injury obtained on the property in his absence. Signed: owners name"

Seems to work good. He didnt have anything set up to maim anyone, by the way, but the idea of some old crazy nut with something geared up to damage trespassers is enough to make the theives move on to the next cabin... I think if the gates and signs dont work I'll bolt a big old bear trap to one of the gateposts with a sign like that one. Should do the trick... ;D

I suspect it is either a reed or marsh grass (like bluejoint Calamagrostis canadensis) since you are near cedar stands. Some of that marsh grass I've seen on power lines grows 7 feet high. The ground is quite soft in those areas. One place was so soft we almost lost a dozer (D8) in it, and the escavator that fished it out had all it could handle.  ::)

Jeff, glad to hear you got your piece of land. I spent 14 years looking for mine. Bought it 2 years ago. I constantly have ideas running through my head about what I want to do with it. Sit down and make of list of things you want to do, then prioritize it, it helps. Having Ron come out and look it over for you is a very good idea, I need to have a forester come out to my place and do the same. I am contemplating putting signs up on my place as well, just not sure if I want to. I did find an old deer stand on it, but it looked like it hasn't been used in a couple of years. There is no mistake now of the lines, as they are cleared 8 feet wide. Makes a dang good fire break too. I hope you enjoy your land as much as I'm enjoying mine.

Stew

All the signs and gates in the world won't help if they REALLY want to get in. Good nosey neighbors are a far better deterant. We live at the end of a lane, a mile or so off the highway. Folks used to come back here and park and do the thing folks do on old empty lanes  ::) before we moved in. Now that it is obvious that we live back here, the traffic didn't slow down a bit, so we posted signs and put up a cable at the end and for the most part it keeps folks honest. But just this week we woke up to our cable down, and both anchor poles pulled out of the ground.  :o   I figure whoever hit it must have been going along at a pretty good clip. The poles are telephone poles buried down about 3 feet. I was even more shocked that the cable was still attached. I am guessing the pick-up that hit it now has an indent just about at headlight height all around the front end and probably through the grill. Bummer.  ;D    Norm buried the poles even deeper this time, just waiting for the next guy to come around where he doesn't belong.

Congratulations and good luck on becoming forest owners. I think you will be having many happy and fruitful times ahead. Being an absentee forest owner I can give you the benefit of my experience over the last 15 years.

I learned quite early that it is a good idea to talk to your neighbors and give them a chance to get to know you and for you to know them. Don't be afraid to let people know what you expect as a property owner. Once you have met your neighbors you probably will be able to determine who will be a good neighbor and who won't. Be nice to them all but befriend only the good ones. The good ones will keep an eye on things for you.

Try not to visit your property on a regular schedule. Vary the time and days that you are there. Something about not knowing when the owner is going to show up does a lot for keeping some people honest. Don't be too open about yourself till you are really sure about your neighbors. A little mystery about you is a plus. :-\

I found that I had two good neighbors and two not so good neighbors. The good neighbors are now good friends and keep watch over my property. They have done me many favors and I have been able to do a few favors for them in return. Kind of like one hand washes the other. The bad ones gave me some problems for a while but I think we have reached an understanding that I will not tolerate being taken advantage of. I got a feeling your neighbors will enjoy having you as a neighbor.

My last tip is to always plan on staying one extra day when you visit the property. Its been 15 years and I still get almost nothing done the first day that I arrive. Seems like I just have to walk the woods and get reacquainted with every tree. ;D My wife can usually tell when its time for me to head for the woods. She says I get edgy and cranky when I don't get a chance to be there. She will usually tell me its time to for me to head to the woods. :D

Nothing like owning your own little piece of woods. Enjoy. ;)

I have more then 30 acres in Central Maine. I know people snowmobile, ATV, cross to reach a large lake, and hunt across it (hunting club on my property line).  Yea, I found someone sugaring my maples too. I let the locals get all the free hay they want from the six or so clear acres. I have gone 4x4ing with my small trucks on some of the trails. So, I decided not to sign it.

When I find people on my land, I tell them I don't care if they use the land, just don't trash it, and please don't shoot in my general direction (point where I am working). Works so far for me. I ask them when they expect to be leaving and I tell them I will be quiet until then or I will just come back later to work so I don't ruin the hunting (not a hunter myself, I can appreicate it though).

I guess it depends on the law. As long as I didn't lose any rights I probably wouldn't prevent people from using the land except for the 300-600 feet directly around my house and just put up signs for rifle hunters not to shoot in the house's direction and paint it flame orange,like you clothe your dogs in Sept.  :D

I think I would have to be seriously in danger or hassle to prevent a bow or shotgun hunter from using the land.

I think there is always a urge to stake your claim, but, when you get down to it, we own nothing, God does.  We don't even pay rent. Some things you are suppose to do, such as not pick the gleanings from your crops and trees and to leave it for the poorer folks. If someone wants to hunt to eat (which I am not doing) or sugar trees I have no intention of sugaring, I don't see the need to get heavy handed and lock them out, my poorer neighbors.

Just some things I thought about in regards to signing.

There seems to be this appetite to burn vacant houses, or attempt to knock all the windows and doors out.  ::)

Jeff, I forgot sumpthin'.  When you are preparing paradise for the next piggy roast don't forget to build the 'Woodshed'  ;D

Tammy and I spent the dry parts of the last two days exploring our twenty acres. Its amazing how much area that really is and that as much as I have been over it it seems I have only saw a small portion.  I got a couple better photos of the grass on the power-line.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_1.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_2.jpg)

I was surprised how dry the woods are considering it is mostly cedar, we are near the end of a rapid thaw of the snow pack, the frost is still in the ground and we got over an inch of rain during the two days we were there.

Tammy found one of our trees has lips.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_3.jpg)

ANd this whitepine has arms!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/whitepine_arms.jpg)


Takes a pretty good cedar to hide me behind
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_4.jpg)

There is a small creek that runs on the property, last fall it was running, but mostly underground, emerging here and there. You can see its path better now with the spring run off.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_5.jpg)

My Seester Leenda and Tammy an one of the natural benches in the cedars.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_6.jpg)


Chet would probably title this picutre "Trolls in Yooperland"  :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_7.jpg)

Hide and seek!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/prop_8.jpg)

Jeff that is so nice. It is just perfect. I'm sittin in my chair mentally walking the property with you guys. Very nice my friend. I will enjoy watching this thread over the years.
Keep us and the property posted.
Ledlie

Looks like y'all were having fun ;D.

Yeah that picture of the hay, looks like a species of reedgrass, probably blue joint which is very common. We have it here and quite often in soft ground along power lines.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 03, 2007, 05:04:36 AM
Yeah that picture of the hay, looks like a species of reedgrass, probably blue joint which is very common. We have it here and quite often in soft ground along power lines.

Any suggestions on removal?  I'm planning on letting it start to green up then giving it a drink of round up.  :)

Plan on a few applications. :o Dormant rhizomes send up new growth, not to mention all that seed. Best of Luck.....she's one tough grass. :P

I was opeing to defeat it soon enough this year to get sumpthing in for the deer.  I sure wish I could just burn it off to begin with to see what lays underneath for terrain but I'm sure the power company and a few thousand electic company customers would not be to impressed with that idear. :D

Hmmmm wood power poles huh. :D

Round up works best if the plant is growing well when applied. I'd wait until it gets good and green and growing up through the old dead growth so you get good contact. Is there any way to get a tractor with a brush hog or flail mower in there? It would really help to get rid of as much dead growth if possible before spraying.

I think a mower can traverse thr length OK, but when they put those new poles in they left serious rutage. I'll need to perhaps to some manual labor in creating a turn around at one end. Problem is that DanG grass does not seem to rot away, it looks like there is years worth there, layer upon layer and you can't get a feel on how rough it really might be. Its also keeping the ground from drying out.

I wonder if it might be something that they planted to keep the trees and brush from growing in the Right of Way?

That is Reed Canary Grass. It is considered an invasive species but is still planted sometimes for hay and erosion control. Could have been seeded by the power company to crowd out anything that would grow taller and threaten the power lines. Here is one site from Wisconsin DNR on control measures:  Reed Canary Grass (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/invasives/fact/reed_canary.htm)

After it exists for many years on that soil, there may not be any native seeds remaining for any other regrowth.

Here are some views of the powerline from the corner. There is aproximatly 800ft on the property, less then 2 acres'

This is straight down the powerline from the corner, looking south southeast
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_1.jpg)

This view is looking east down North Caribou, the 1320 side
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_2.jpg)

This is looking down Peisley rd. the 660 side
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_3.jpg)

I don't believe it's invasive, we have this reedgrass here in places where I know it was never planted. One place I know is at the head of a brook and it's real tall and thick. As Jeff says, it looks like it never rots and if you get walking through it you get tripping on the sod clumps as bad as the tangling hay. It will grow up in abandoned, dried up beaver ponds to.

Ditto! to what Gary C said. It appears to be Reed Canary Grass and may have been seeded by the power company to comtrol any woody vegetation. It's very invasive and difficult to eradicate. Repeated burining is a good option to start with, but need to discuss situation with power company for any possible surface management to benefit wildlife with some native plant and shrub species.

I would say that power line right of way needs a controlled burn to start with. Just get plenty of help together with rakes, a four wheeler or two with water tanks, and set small backfires and work your way down the length of your property.  Just clear the dead grass away from the power poles and soak them with water so they will not burn.  Then you can use Roundup or mowing to control the regrowth.

Did you get Ron up there to look at the trees? Looks like you have a lot of nice trees and a very high basal area. Needs some thinning, but then you can never trust a logger like me to determine that.   :D :D

i say burn it. you will only have to really worry about the poles that have dripped the creasote to the butt of the pole really bad anyway. and like they said above a little raking away at the butt of the poles will usually not let the pole catch fire. also a small pump sprayer will do alot for the fire control if a pole was to actually catch fire. i have put out numerous pole fires in the past and most folks do not even bother to think about repercussions before lighting the fire. good luck and stay safe. nice lookin property by the way.

and jeff, does she always dress yall to match like that. ;D

Jeff

The one way I have found to get rid of canarygrass is serious overgrazing with cows. You put them in and let them graze it to the ground. Then you feed them round bales and let them keep it grazed down to the ground. After a few years like this you will have set it back. It is much easier if you have lotsa cows. You might want to mow it as low as you can as much as you can to recreate the overgrazing scenario. The roots and rhizomes on it are horrendous. It is the next thing to bamboo. I don't thing one application of roundup would do it. The other think you could do is have somebody plant corn. Lotsa nasty herbicides and the deer would really like the corn if you left it standing.

Stonebroke

hmm......... never mind. Just a brain fart. ;)

Quote from: woody1 on March 28, 2007, 11:02:29 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14805/PICT0266.JPG)
here is one sign I use

Jeff,

Those signs would probably keep everyone except in-laws from coming in.

Theo

I wonder if you could hire someone with a HEAVY cut a way disk to chop it up, that would deal with the ruts also.  You would still have to spray any regrowth.  I doubt you would ever be able to plow that stuff under, the way it is.

maybe a tractor mounted rototiller?

Stonebroke

Congrads you guys !!! Nice chunk o' land ya got dere  8) Ya got cedar and tamarack just like northern Maine do  8) man that area looks just like around here...

On the issue of signs yer best not to unless there is an issue with unwanted use... Like others have said get to know the locals ... Breakfast / lunch at the local eatery etc. If the snowmobile trail is one that is used alot and it's gonna be a pain get in touch with the local club for a possible reroute... We've got a heavily used trail about 100 yards or so crossing our land behind the house and we hardly even hear them... The club has signs that state "Please stay on marked trail" and the sledders do just that...

With the liability issue Maine has a no liability law for land owners, Maybe Michigan does also..
http://www.maine.gov/ifw/rv/atvlaws.htm#liability

For a couple suggestions where traffic can see down the power line ROW maybe plant some lilac and rose bushes and other short growing vegetation that'll block line of site from motorist and at the same time won't be a pain to the power company... Maybe stager in rows so they can get their equipment through...

As far as the tall grass beg, borrow, rent or buy a rough cut mower that ya tow behind your 4 wheela. Friend of ours lent his to us last year and what a job that rig did to the unwanted growth and that dang thing can really chop er up and go just about anywhere !!!

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_404001_404001

Our friend Bob showing the doubting Thomas's it could be done..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10691/ATV%20mower%2001.jpg)
He made a few passes and it started looking pretty good!!!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10691/ATV%20mower%2002.jpg)
Then Jennie took over and bush hogged for 3 days and did about 4 acres... Some of it was to rough and wet for a 4X4 tractor to even think of attempting!!!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10691/ATV%20mower%2003.jpg)

Canarygrass not only spreads by seed and roots,  but the joints will also sprout if they are chopped up and worked into the soil.  Discing or rototilling would just be reseeding it.  On thebright side,  it makes good hay and pasture.  If it were mine,  while visiting the neighbors,  I'd ask if there was anyone that might be interested in cutting it every spring and fall for hay.

As far as burning,  I wouldn't worry about the poles,  the fire will burn fast and when it cools a little,  throw a bucket of water on each pole.  What I would worry about would be keeping it out of that beautiful timber.

As for the ruts,  I'd see if any of the neighbors have a blade or bucket loader.  If not you might be able to hire a backhoe to smooth it out.  I think I'd try the power company first.  If it's like it is here,  it's your land,  they just have an easement.  If they put the ruts there,  they should remove them.  Our local REA would  the first time they had the equipment in the area.

Thats why you would have to spray the regrowth,  looks to me like the mat of old stuff is pretty thick. He is going to have to chop it up or burn it before any thing else. A bush hog won't chop up the matted stuff.

This is a aerial of the area our property is in.  :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property%20map.JPG)

The red dot is our property, its easy to find on any satelite map as the powerline comes to the corner.
The white dot is Lime Island. I've talked about it many times on the Forestry Forum. It sits in the St. Maries River, which seperates us from Canada in that area.
The light blue dot is Carlton lake and is one third owned by our neighbor Lou Kurtis.
The Dark blue dot is Caribou Lake, known in the area for its walleye perch and northern pike.
The pink/purple dot is the Cranberry floodings I talked about alot while bear hunting. Its about 4000 acres of public land.
The yellow dot is De Tour Village, the local town
The lime green dot is Drummond Island, know for its great fishing waters and abundance of public land.
:)



Here are a few pictures we took while at our property this past weekend, while no on the property, they are all within a mile or two as the crow flies.  One draw to the area for us has always been the close proximity to lots of state land and the great lakes and several inland lakes and streams.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/near_property_1.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/near_property_2.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/near_property_3.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/near_property_4.jpg)


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/near_property_5.jpg)


I think it should be a fine area for future pig roasts and forum events. :) Maybe not for a year or three, but some day.

Howdy neighbour!  ;D

That's my place just a little up and to the right of ya'll.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/howdy.JPG)

Aint it closer for you to get there if you came to our place then went by boat? 

I was gonna suggest sorghum and atrazine to control the grass but there's a chance that atrazine wouldn't phase it.  Some grasses, switchgrass is one, aren't affected by triazines.  Another thing to try would be one treatment with a glyphosate at the first green up after a controlled burn, followed by a heavy tillage and a light discing a week or so after the pesticide treatment.  Let that sit until the first week in June, spray the green up again, let it burn down for a week or so, disc it light and broadcast buckwheat at 100lbs per acre, and cultipack it.  Pull a soil test for analysis at the Extension office and apply fertilizer and lime per their recommendation.  Ph probably isn't much of an issue with all the lime rock in that area but you never know.  In mid August plow the buckwheat under, drag it and plant rye at 100 lbs per acre and fertilize accordingly.  I'd stay away from nitrogen as much as possible.  Grass loves it  ;)  The following spring work the ground in late May and let it sit to see what greens up, spray it again and start over with the buckwheat.  The first thing that needs to be dealt with is the residue on the ground.  If fire isn't an option then heavy tillage has to be it.  It'd take a substantial disc to cut that mat up and a plow would need good sharp coulters and trash boards  

Do you think dragging with a brush rake could possibly rip it up and pile it?  If I gould do that, I wouldnt feel bad about trying to burn.

I don't know if that would work or not.  Might be sorta like chasing your tail  :)  You said that there was a farm close by  ???  Might be worth a visit.  It's gonna be that intial beak up that's tough.  Once that's done smaller tools will do the job.

There really isn't a good option to start with other than burning. I have used tillage on very small areas and it is easy to make a huge mess with all that thick mat on the surface. A plow will just plug up and slide over the top. Even a heavy disc will have trouble cutting thru that mat and will usually just roll over the top. A chisel plow or digger will just pull up huge mounds that will be difficult to spread out later. You can burn a lot of fuel and end up making the problem worse.

One thing you might try is going to the nearest DNR office and see if you can get some assistance for a controlled burn and/or creating wildlife food plots. Where I am the feds hire someone every spring to burn lands that are enrolled in the Wetland Reserve and the state DNR does some burns on other lands. There may be some assistance available if you are trying to create some wildlife food plots.

I have seen how they do the burnings and I am sure there are others that can give you advice on how to do it safely. Yes there is always some risk, but with proper preparations you can reduce that risk to near nothing.

One thing you can do to prepare for burning is to use a bush hog or heavy mower around the long sides to make a fire break. Then mow paths across at intervals to break it up into small areas. Then rake the clippings off the paths.

Nothing like owning timberland, eh Boss?

Quote from: Corley5 on April 06, 2007, 11:16:25 PM
Ph probably isn't much of an issue with all the lime rock in that area but you never know.

You wouldn't think PH would be an issue is soil with calcareous bedrock. But, even our soil with calcareous rock as rich as it is still needs lime. I guess a lot of it is out of reach of the roots and we don't have a fluctuating water table on the good farmland to transport it into the upper soil layers. I would think though, on virgin soil it would not be a problem.  You have a good crop of northern white cedar (we call it eastern white - Ce) where you have calcareous bedrock and the water table fluctuates. We have a higher concentration of cedar in Carleton county than any other county in the province in the low ground, also some of the best farmland in the province on the high ground. This is the spud belt. Marginal farmland will most often grow back with cedar mixed in if there is a good seed source.

There is a thing called a  or brush disc.  They are like a disc except very heavy and they have big cutters on them.  Used in woodlands for cutting up slash before replanting.  Old timers used to use disc plows.  They were 2 or 3 bladed that the blades rotated as they moved cutting through the material as they turned over the dirt.

As Norm mentioned earlier about the canarygrass. They told us that the only thing that would kill the canary grass is repeated burns with roundup, and after you've done that a couple three times, overseed with another, less invasive ground cover, or try to plant corn or any crop that you will be using major herbicides on to keep the canary grass from coming back. It is very invasive, and tough to kill.  Ours is along the crick bed, so we can't put row crops in to keep it back. So we are having an especially tough time with it.  :-\

I used to notill corn into canarygrass with very heavy ( 4 quarts to the acre) applications of atrazine. I think the legal limit is one and a half quarts now. Four quarts will kill it and most everything else.

Stonebroke

What is that stork-like animal, Jeff? Some kinda Crane? :o

Sandhill Crane, appears to be.

Doubt there is a reason a stork to be hangin around der.......... ::) ::) :D

The DNR will not become involved in controlled burns on private land due to liability reasons.  There was a private firm doing them in the Lower but the cost was astronomical due to their liability insurance.  Maybe a visit to the local VFD is in order  ???  Burning a strip at time back onto an already burned area wouldn't be bad.  I wouldn't start at one end and let it burn the whole length at once  ;D  I've used a 12' JD offset with 26" blades in conditions similar to this with good enough results to allow us to plow it.  It required several passes (many) with the disc and it wasn't real pretty after plowing but got us started.  Later tillage smoothed it up  ;D  The NRCS has some programs for which you may qualify.  Their should be an office in the Soo or a visit to one at home would give you an idea about what they might assist you with.  You may even get some $$$$ help.  If the power company planted the mess maybe they'd help get rid of it  ???  They should anyway  ::) and have pesticide contractors  :)

Jeff;
I have to drive an hour to get to my place and then depending how high the waves are I might get there, I might not.  :D

Quote from: beenthere on April 07, 2007, 10:03:23 AM
Doubt there is a reason a stork to be hangin around der.......... ::) ::) :D

I dunno, Beenthere......when I 1st bought my property a stork visited.....Twice!!! ;D

  Here in Kansas, all we have to do is paint a fence post purple.  Means the same as No Hunting or Tresspassing without Written Permission, only better, and the cops
won't give a ticket without the purple. 

Cedarman,

That disc you were talking about witht he minimal, but heavy, blades is what we call a bush'n bog.  It cuts almost like a new ground plow (disc plow) but can be made to throw and turn to either, neither or both sides.   With heavy weights layed on top of it, it has even been used to cut up Palmettos down here.  That is almost an impossible job.

I would still be leary of mowing or turning this grass, whatever it is, over.   Mowing can be like seeding and turning the ground is almost like planting.  A good burning will get rid of the mass and kill the exposed seeds. A little time for the stumps and viable seeds to sprout and then the application of an herbacide would be the most effective. 

Many times there are weed seeds waiting just beneath the surface.  Even if you kill the original crop, plowing or disturbing the ground will allow these seed to sprout.   In a lot of instances, you find that ridding the soil of weeds requires more than one season.

That's why buckwheat and rye should be used as cover crops as both have allelopathic properties. I've used buckwheat many times to suppress quackgrass and it works but it takes a couple seasons.  I've also found that a seed rate of 100lbs per acre broadcast works best.  Any less and the buckwheat canopy isn't thick enough.  We used to do this in the Pigeon River SF to get a handle on quack before we planted legumes.  If glyphosate is added to the rotation it'd work even better.  It'll all comes back to managing the existing residue to get the process started  :)  http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ESAP/greenbook2001/2001gb07.pdf 

HD flail mowers work good on Canary grass. They will chew up the dead grass.

> Any suggestions on removal?

A Dr. Field walk behind mower would work, I wouldn't use the other hand mowers that use the big circle disc with spindes as you need to chop it pretty fine.

Myself, I let my neighbors hay it for free.

We always used a 'disc' on harvested potato fields to chop up the vines and loosen up the soil where all the heavy equipment traveled during the harvest.  We had some sweet glover one time that we grew for rotation and it couldn't be plowed before it was bush hogged. It would bung up the plow in short order.

Jeff, do you reckon we could build a large enough potato cannon at the inaugural UP piggy roastin to reach Kevin's property? 
Not that I would want to start any kind of international incydent or anything  eh eh

You would get nailed for illegally exporting spuds. ;)

Kevin should be in attendance, so my question would be, can we build a canon big enough to get him home. ;D

  I tinks weeds guts nuf injuryneers round ta make dats happen  ;D
foist we needs a big pipe (bridge piling) and lotsa hair spray  eh eh

Maybe if he puts on enough cologne, we can just load him head first. We can save on propellant and he might just land feet first!

 Once you decide what you do witht the canary grass ... think about putting in the buckwheat .. thats about as good as it gets if you want deer around your food plot ... really amazing how they will go for that wheat ...  ;)

I find it ironic that down here we fence to keep the deer out...and up there you are trying to lure them in..... ::) :D

Quote from: OneWithWood on April 09, 2007, 07:08:36 AM
Jeff, do you reckon we could build a large enough potato cannon at the inaugural UP piggy roastin to reach Kevin's property? 
Not that I would want to start any kind of international incydent or anything  eh eh

I can supply a black powder cannon with a 3" bore. I know you fellas grow big spuds up there, but we can pare em down some. I'll even supply the powder.

The problem is that I have tried it already. Mashed potatoes are not very aerodynamic. Maybe we need more beergineering.

Theo

I should warn you , everything flows downstream from here.  ;D

 Welll  Not really , let's saye one sows some oats and wants to get any out of it by time fall comes around, I will put some buck wheat down in strips with the oak . Deer will graze the buckwheat and keep it mowed down and leave the oats be . Makes two of us happy . They get something they really like and I get to have my oats .. Its a lot cheaper then putting up an xpensive fence ...  Sure they will eat some of the oats... but not all of it .  By the time fall comes around I get my oats , plus , one of the buckwheat mowers .   ;D :)
   Now if one was to want to really hunt for bares and deer ...  this settup could work really well , cause bears and oats go real good together , I have yet to see a field of oats that a bear has not found, if any bears are around to find said field . I would think it is like a field of corn and raccons ....  ;)

I think your onta something der, Marcel  ;)  Oats might just be da ticket fur Jeff, 'cause he ain't got no bears around ta bother it.  ;D

  We who talk alike ... think alike  ;D  ;)

There are bears around again.  Last week when we were at the cabin there was Bear sign all over.  They heard hunting season was over, Jeff no longer had a permit, and it was safe to come home.

Them big old bucks like to visit the oat fields at night when most farmers and hunters are supposed to be asleep. ;D

 

  Ya , Swamp they do, dey walk through da oats on there way ta da buckwheat .  ;)

Quote from: Chet on April 10, 2007, 09:11:25 AM
I think your onta something der, Marcel  ;)  Oats might just be da ticket fur Jeff, 'cause he ain't got no bears around ta bother it.  ;D

SEE.................. ???  ???  ???  It ain't just me...... ;D  ;D  ;D

There are bears around again.  Last week when we were at the cabin there was Bear sign all over

   Jeff ...  Last week , was it not April 1St  And what where those signs again ...  A black bear on a yellow square, put up on a post, just off the road some. Sumting like dis  ??? .  ;D


  If those are da bear signs ya saw .. well I'll agry wit ya , those are bear signs .  :)
   

I'm going back up tomorrow just for the day, maybe I can find you some of those bear signs and mail em to ya to see what you think. :)

Quote from: Jeff B on April 10, 2007, 07:11:29 PM
I'm going back up tomorrow just for the day, maybe I can find you some of those bear signs and mail em to ya to see what you think. :)

Prolly not........ :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

 :P :P :P :P ::) ;D

I haven't seen any tracks yet in the snow. They might come out of 'er if she turns real wet. But, 3 or 4 inches of the white stuff coming Thursday.

Donk,
It'll be awhile before we see any bars up in these parts cause there's still 3 to 4 feet a snow in them thar woods... How much snow you got down south???  Rain forecast fur next week, with lots a ice in the lakes (3 feet) and rivers and nothing has moved this winter, meaning all the rain we got earlier this winter and the snow,  looks like a set up for flooding this spring if it melts off quick... Spring is running late, and if it warms up fast we'll need more than tall boots and waders...  :o

We have about 4-6" in the fields since the last storm, dropping fast. A lot were almost all bear and they was dry on top. We have 8-16" in the woods here, less on hardwood ground as the sun penetrates to the ground. Up above Perth I think there is 2-3' in the woods. Snow coming tonight and a dusting for Sunday possible.  The river ise isn't very thick here. The little brooks have been ice free for weeks and the Preque Isle river is pretty much ice free below the old mill pond and only 6-8" thick above the pond. Had to cross a stream here yesterday to mark thinning on the other side and there was only 1-4" in it, not a bit high. Beaver ponds were all dried up since my aerial photo was taken 6 years ago. Walked up one road this morning with 18 " of snow on it, looked like a herd of moose was criss crossing all over it yesterday. Might have been only 2 moose, if so they got the 'blind staggers'.  :D Last year farmers were sowing grain by this time. Last February and March I was driving the pickup out back on abandoned homesteads, only 2 inches of crust on the roads and lots of ice.

Corley looked at the power line today. He was not impressed by the ruts. :-\

Sounds just about what I have here SD.Snow again Thursday.Sure was nice until about 2nd week in Jan,nice and warm,no snow.Now looks what happens.I hate ruts Jeff.If I'm in a wet spot,I haul the rocks right in.I have had more than one person tell me I'm too fussy with my land.I don't see how anyone can be too fussy when it comes to that.Hey,Jeff did you notice how SD spelled "bare"-"bear".I think he's trying to tell you something.   :D

QuoteSD spelled "bare"-"bear".I think he's trying to tell you something.

That he's semi-illiterate?  ;) :D

Nope, not impressed at all.  I think the power co. oughta step up and fix the damage.  They've got a right of way but no right to leave that kind mess.  I'm also concerned that the ground may become wetter if the grass is killed.  Grass has a high respiration rate and helps to dry ground.  Removing it may complicate matters.  In many spots the ruts currently have water in them.  Filling and leveling is going to lower the elevation too.  Some years it may be very wet and other years dry.  If the power line owner won't grade it out the way it should be I'd suggest starting small with test plots and experiment to see what happens.  It's ideal for deer food plots with the cover types on both sides  8) 8) 8)  Lots of cottontail and snowshoe tracks in the woods too along with coyote        

Lots of cottontail and snowshoe tracks in the woods too along with coyote   
      What no bares ...... ;D         

It was too cold for bares  ;D

Ruts may not be from the power company. Some times lifted 4x4s find there way down them also. If you are in Cloverland electric area, give them a call and ask what was done.
A friend of mine is in the NCRS and he says the whole county is a swamp. :D and with cedar growing there it just backs that up.

Its not Cloverlands easement, they have sold all their transmission line easements to the American Transmission Company. This damage was done about 3 years ago when they put in new poles. These are some big poles. There are two sets of deep wide ruts from the heavy equipment that go the length of the line.

Quote from: thecfarm on April 11, 2007, 09:26:38 PM
Hey,Jeff did you notice how SD spelled "bare"-"bear".I think he's trying to tell you something.   :D

Just trying to fit in, eh?  ;D

Well, I said I never seen any bear sign yet as of yesterday. Low and behold I was marking out some more thinning today on another block and the back of the lot dips down into the bowls of an esker. (that dang thing is steep on snow shoes  :o ). As I walked up this deep valley formed by the esker I seen tracks of a young bear up this valley. Looked like he walked there yesterday in the warm sun. I seen the tracks a couple other places in the middle of the block as well. I think he was lost down in there.  ;D

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 12, 2007, 01:14:58 PM
I seen tracks of a young bear up this valley. Looked like he walked there yesterday in the warm sun. I seen the tracks a couple other places in the middle of the block as well. I think he was lost down in there. ;D

Is it true that "bares" are so hungry when they come out in the spring they will even eat tough old Foresters?   ::) ::)  ;D

The mommies with the cubs will :o.  Same with big wild hog sows.  Don't get yourself between the babies and the mamma  musteat_1 musteat_1.

By the looks of his tracks I'd say he is under 200 lbs and definately bigger than a cub. No babies, no worries.  ;D

You all realize now that Jeff actually owns property there, he won't ever get drawn for a permit again. ::)

Does it really matter.... ???   ???   :D  :D  :D

 smiley_bull_stomp

 He can burm a few up ....  signs that is .  ;D

Real Yoopers dont need no stinkin permit.  ;D

Smear your self with PB and call it self defense.
I WANT NEED video of that by the way. ;)

I hope dey don't got rough tounges..... :D  :D   :D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Bear-sign.jpg)

Scale 1: 30,000

;D

Jeff,

Real Yoopers don't need guns to hunt bear either. 8)

Farmerdoug

Quote from: Jeff B on March 29, 2007, 02:02:21 PM
Maybe we should have a timber frame raising party!  :)  Everybody bring a mill to cut a timber. Get her all cut in a couple hours. :)

This sounds like the beginning of a TF rondy! I'm in! I need an excuse to go a little further west than Chambursburg PA. ;) I've been a lot further east though.


Dave

Tammy and I are going to leave tomorrow night and make a run up to our property. I'm going to mark off about 100 foot of the powerline and spray the emerging grass with round up to try a test patch. (emerging, its a foot tall all ready).  I'm hauling my brother-in-laws quad up for him along with mine. Maybe we will get to go for a ride as well. :)  The plan is to try and kill off this patch and see what I can do with it rather then try and undertake the whole thing.

I don't think that I posted yet, and haven't read other replies, either. But here's a few ideas.

The color of the sign may matter.

Blue signs - in Oregon anyway - are generally  posted by an authority for roads and places. So a blue sign may connote that the land is public, but on the other hand, the statement would convey more authority.

If there will be several signs, two colors might be useful to get the attention of different people who may notice things or colors differently.

I'd probably prefer the plain "No Trespassing" with "Private Land" on yellow signs, blue signs or both.

Brown signs are a bit harder to read, and is a color often used by the Forest Service.

Sign at at convent,   "Tresspassers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, "

Signed ,, Sisters of Mercy

Or tresspassers will be voilated....

I think the law will stand by your judgment if you have the normal no treespassing signs,, but ya gotta hve them in say,,  3 or four languages.....LOL,  sad but true,

i used OLD GREASE>>>>on my gates,,, it stopped the folks from jumpin the gate to go fishing on PRIVATE LAND>...    a old BEWARE OF DOG SIGN is posted too.
along with no tresspassing.....
stinky hypoid grease.....leaves a mark on there rump when they get back in there car.......

Take care

Quote from: jack on May 31, 2007, 12:33:45 AM
   a old BEWARE OF DOG SIGN is posted too.

This can cause problems. It infers that the owner knows the dog has anti social tendencies and can lead to prosecution even though the trespasser had no right being there. 'DOG AT LARGE' is safer, the miscreant can make his own decision as to whether he wants to deal with it.

I like the one on my buddys shop: "Theres nothing in this garage worth losing your life over"  :D

I do like the grease idea...

I've decided on this on some custom ordered black and white signs:

CEDAR RESEARCH
Authorized Access ONLY.


That'll get em thinking

I just came on the property to get authorization.  :D

Everybody has a line. :)

The reason I came up with that was because of a tract of property south of here on the road where we lived for 5 years.  It had similar signs but they said "Arctic Research" "Patroled". We always thought, and a lot of other people as well, that it was some sort of government deal. I found out years later that it was just some wealthy guys from Clare that came up with the signs for their hunt club. Just the stigma of having something to do with the Government kept people from blowing past the signs.

Two signs I have seen on property near mine stick out.  One was "Warning large predator traps being used in this area. Keep Out".  The other was "No tresspassing $1500 fine all proceeds go to county"

This is what our signs are going to look like. ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/property_sign.jpg)

That sign definitely eludes to an affiliation with a government entity.  :)

Stew

The signs are accurate.  The Boss is doing some cedar research as he walk through and decides how the manage the property ;D.

Its as Honest as all get out. :D   What people think as they see them would be most interesting eh?  :D

Them gonna think a smart feller owns this place. :D
Put the wildlife trail camera on for pics. ;D

I figure a guy needs to cameras. one secret, and one super secret watching the secret one being stolen. :D

I was told by a wildlife biologist that if you put one trail camera every 100 acres on a property, you would photograph 98% of the deer on a tract.  I thought that was an interesting statistic.  Wonder if it apples to humans as well ??? ;D.

Probably not, because the first one photographed would steal the camera :).

I arrived at my property this past week and was greeted with someones mess.  Apparently somone decided to try and drive in on my quad trail on my powerline with either a truck or car. They didnt get far, only into the ditch and tore the hell out of it. I imagine they were pulled out by looking at the scars on the road.  So, I went down and bought the most blunt sign I could find while I await my custom signs.  It simply says Private Property. KEEP OUT.  I mounted it on a 14 foot pole and put it 4 foot in the ground. I want it to be seen by land and by sea and by air. I also wanted it high enough not to be able to be pulled off by standing on the seat of a quad or something similar.  Didnt take long for the first trespass. Long as there was no trail there people didnt bother it. As soon as it was improved, they show up.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/keepout.jpg)

You got it ;)
Gates are a good deterrent.  Nothing special just some poles across the trail, lots of signs (variety to prove you are insane), maybe a few bones (not human) hanging from trees, and a few broken bands from da mill here and dare does the trick. Maybe hangin from the tree near the signs to make em think ;D :o

Oh the signs they pull down add to the picture, we have a old rusty bedspring along the trail where I artfully hang all the torn down signs. :)

WE are know certified insane and have no trespassers 8)

Mad Max :o

I have some old heavy hemp rope here. I wonder if I tied something that looked like a noose and hung it just under that sign if that might add to the effect?

They'd steal the rope

Or they'd hang someone from it. ::)

Ya probably oughta put some steel in that post to deter chainsaw attacks  ;) ;D

Isn't it amazing how posessive we get once we acquire some land?

Max, folks around these parts know I am insane too.  All but one stoopid hunter stay off the property.  Mr. Stoopid Hunter keeps providing me with an assortment of deer stands  ::) and he leaves his signature beer bottle to let me know he is still scouting.   ??? ::)

It usually takes awhile for the previous unchallenged users (trespassers), to realize that there is a new owner that has "changed the rules" to their assumed proprietary interest that they no longer have.

Sorry to hear about your tresspassers, Jeff.

After my last visit to my land, I'm thinking about a new sign along the lines of "Deerfly Preserve-Blood donations taken without warning" :D

My signs warning of cameras seem to be working. The only atvs I've gotten pictures of were the local cops !

OWW, It took years for us to get rid of one or two " stubborn" ones.  The only way we did was to regularly use the parcel.

Joan,
The camera idea crossed my mind, I was afraid the whack that was tearing down the signs would have stole the camera.  So what were the cops doing on your land without a warrant? ???  Can they do that?
max

Max, if you want to keep the bad guys off the trail, you have to let the good guys patrol it.

I did not know they offered that service ;)  Our police barely have cars let alone Atvs.  ;)
max

There is a state police post in De Tour. One officer, one car.  He knows where a key is for the cabin. So far we have never had a break in knock on wood. We have however went up in the middle of the winter more then once to find his business card laying on the table.  He not only stops by, he comes in and makes sure the place is still buttoned up inside.  Of course this is with our full permission.   One car, one officer.  I ride down the road once on the quad without my helmet and he catches me. :D

Jeff
Brings up a good point.....apparently there is a helmet law for the UP ??

All of Michigan. However enforcement on private property seems like it could get pretty sticky. I dont wear a helmet off road on my property.

It's the Law—Required Equipment

Before an ORV may be operated on any property, the operator is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle and its riders have the required equipment.
For Operators and Passengers

ORV operators and all passengers must wear a U.S. Department of Transportation–approved crash helmet and protective eyewear or goggles except when the ORV is equipped with an approved roof and the operator and passengers are wearing properly adjusted and fastened safety belts.
For Off-Road Vehicles

The ORV must be equipped with the following.

    * Braking System: A braking system in good working condition that operates by either hand or foot
    * Throttle System: A throttle system designed to automatically and immediately return the engine speed to idle when pressure is released
    * Spark Arrester and Muffler: A U.S. Forest Service–approved spark arrestor and muffler in good working condition, in constant operation, and meeting applicable sound-level standards (see Sound Emission Regulations)
    * Seating: Designed, manufactured accommodations for seating for each passenger
    * Lights: If operated during the hours of one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise, the ORV also must have and display all of the following:
          o A lighted headlight
          o A lighted taillight
          o A brake light, brighter than the taillight

I don't get many trespassers, maybe 1 every 2 or 3 years. One guy left and old beat up axe and garbage bag on the trail. They were tipping and must have been a wet tip , because it rained after i was their in the morning and the next morning I found the evidence. And anther guy I walked up to as he was tipping my fir and lied about where he thought he was, and if he was were he thought he was, he was also breaking the law without a permit.  ::)

My trails are walking only, so I don't get many. Once in awhile someone will also venture in looking for moose. They can have all they want, but would be interesting getting it out.  ;D

Jeff, do you happen to have a definition of "approved roof"?
The buggies, jeeps and sand rails on the dunes have nothing but roll bars, and no one wears a helmet in them, so I assume a roll bar is approved.

I'm guessing it means factory roof.

You're not required to wear a helmet in a vehicle such as a JD Gator that has a top speed of 25mph or less.

I would think it meant 'factory' as well.

That being the case, it's not being enforced by the state on the dunes.

I drove down from Ontario to Michigan a few years ago via Sarnia.  Saw a field on the Michigan side that was posted with signs that said:  "If I can see you- you're in range."    I doubt many tested whether it was tongue in cheek.

My signs came in Friday. They look pretty good!  ;D smiley_smug01

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/sign_1%7E0.jpg)

I need one for butternut research.  :D :D

I need one for Poison Ivy research ;D.  Good looking sign, Boss ;).

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10842/gentlemen%20will%20not.jpg)

    i saw this one near Lanse, MI.

That one aint goona slow anyone down in our end of da U.P.  :D

Apparently none of my signs are effective to those that think a powerline right-of-way are public highways. I had a couple quads go right up through the middle a couple weeks ago mowing down the row of corn and sun flowers I had been cultivating. So, its time to seei if a fence will be effective. I'll have a 16 foot entrance for the power company around the end. I wont lock it until I'm given reason to do that too.

I'm harvesting Tamarack that were killed last summer by our drought. They should make a fine fence. I've been cutting a tree, then skidding with my beloved Logrite arch, then sawing material from that tree, the assembling fence, then cutting the next tree. I have the fence a little over half done and as of this morning probably have enough logs cut to finish. The fence is built in an arc for added strength so its taking more material then it might have it were straight.  I'll add further strength with the old stop sign posts I have driven in on an angle as anchors for support cables attached to the fence.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_fence_1.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_fence_2.jpg)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_fence_3.jpg)

I see you put Pete to work. ;D
It is pretty sad when people don't know how to read or blatantly disregard others property.  >:(
You need one of these. ;D



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13635/bigfoot.jpg)

I want one!! 8) 8)


Loaded up for work tomorrow. :)



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/powerline_fence_4.jpg)

 Thats gonna be quite a nice fence , you going to cut out the little spruce trees on this fence too ???

I had a guy go and turn in my hay field here this summer while I was putting up private road signs  ::)  He was looking for a road that showed up on his GPS that has not been for at least forty years a public road . I asked him if it was the hay bales ... the gate he went through or the grass growing in the field he did not see .  ::) 
  His GPS was telling him where to go ... I also told him where he could be going .  ;D

 

Marcel,
He didn't see the sign that said no GPS. ;D

Maybe I should get me one of those  :D :D

Some are so oblivious to there suroundings when they get here it aint funny . They relye on the GPS so much that they dont see the CUL DE SAC  signs , two of them ... You tell them they need go back and turn left at the stop sign cross the bridges and turn left again ....
They dont recall crossing no bridge .. or train tracks or turning off the pavemant  but where not coiming from Vermont , well we have a problem here , that or ya might want to share some of the smoke  :D
   

Just catching up a bit here Jeff.

One thing I let people know in the area is that I don't mind them fishing in the rivers (it is the law here that they can) but I do mind if they cause any damage, or leave any trash.

Someone once saw my bow and asked a worker "Does Don Fred hunt?", the answer came back "You, if you tresspass..."

We don't have any signs, everyone knows where our properties are since we maintain our fences.

We also have people who live on the fincas full-time, which helps a lot.

Jeff with all the signs, they thought it was public land. That's what one guy told me on my lot, even after driving by private land signs every 300 feet on his way to cut brush (fir tipping). Which was also illegal even on public land with no permit. Further questioning revealed he had no permit either.  ::)

Jeff,

Did not stumble across this post until now.  Go to the link below, click on trespassing and then click on No Trespassing (sample Sign).  You may not like this approach but I have them on my property and it has pretty much ended the trespassing and rif raf.  It's enforceable too.

SeeSaw

http://www.landrights.com/

Some of the farms 'round here have 'em signs that say "BIO-SECURE AREA- - - -KEEP OUT" and some creepy little logo type thing like a bio-hazard sign. Those scare the pith outta me, even though I think it just has to do with testing crops.

That has to do with keeping you from dragging bugs in and making their livestock sick or dead.

Well, none of the signs were effective. Last hunting season I had trucks stop at the corner and get out guns and scope down the powerline right in my direction. My solution this year was to plant a screen of corn, sunflowers and sudan grass. A month ago two quads came on to the property and mowed down my screen. So, I took a page from the Corley5 way of doing things.

Its easier to ask forgiveness then ask permission.

I began to build a board fence across the powerline with a planned opening to allow for transmission line maintenance. I didn't inquire about permission, I just did it knowing that they would probably contact me.  The fencing material was sawn fron drought killed tamarack. I cut the tress down, sawed out the lumber and built the fence in the course of about 4 days worth of work. The Saturday after I had the fence completed (no gate, just a twenty foot opening where the gate wold be) I got a call from home that I had a letter from the American Transmission Company with pictures of the fence telling me that I was in violation of such and such a policy and my easement agreement. The photos they had were sent to them by an unknown subject and they were, I feel, purposely taken at an angle that made it look like the power line was completely walled off.   I had the contact information emailed up to me and I took a little time to find the fellows email address using google. I sent him a quick note explaining I would call him on Monday, but also attached photos that I took showing what the fence really looked like.

On Monday I had a great conversation with the gentleman. I told him why I built the fence, how I designed it so they could enter at ease hauling a hundred foot pole if necessary. He told me to not be concerned with the letters and forms that they had sent me before, that now that they new what the real deal was they would be sending me a letter of endorsement along with one of their locks to place on the gate along with mine, if I wished to lock the gate. They also placed in their database the photos I took, and a note that I must be personally contacted before any spraying or forestry actions could take place on my property and that there were active, managed food plots on the property as well.

So, I have a fence and a little privacy for myself and the critters that now frequent my foodplots.  I also have a new gate. I think I spent nothing on it. ;D
Here is a short video tour.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5gqVypN5fE

Nice Fence and Gate.
You otta put the Wild Game cam up to catch the 2 legged animal taking pictures. :D
Put it up just high enough where they can't get to it if it is discovered. ;D

I am at the same stage of the game with my property Jeff. I didn't want to, but had to place No Trespassing signs this past weekend. I found vehicle tracks leading up to my house site. Deer Archery season opens here the 15th. I will be spending a lot more time on my place this season to make sure I catch whoever it is.

I see an entrance gate in my very near future, like this weekend or next.

Quote from: Mooseherder on October 08, 2008, 04:42:16 PM
Nice Fence and Gate.
You otta put the Wild Game cam up to catch the 2 legged animal taking pictures. :D
Put it up just high enough where they can't get to it if it is discovered. ;D

I actually have a broken one that Lou gave me that fell in his pond. I thought about putting that up where it could be potentially seen and discovered, then have a hidden working camera pointing at that one.

Here's a photo of da fence.  :)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/tamarack%7E0.jpg)

Some fellas, as I've learned over the years, figure they have free reign as they may well have passed over a piece of ground for 10 years during hunting season. You put a sign up they tear it down. A fence, they hook on. A gate, they cut the lock. They do it to retaliate and might never even care if they enter your property again, they are just hitting back. Really a lot like school yard antics. Once they get caught they get some feeling back into their brain cells, either by law or by something impacting their brow.  ::)

   Good on ya, Jeff, for getting the power co involved positively. Being an absentee owner can be a pain. Here we had a problem with "townies" hunting "tweety birds" wherever they wanted. My land was the last, as our conservation officer(used to be called game warden) got involved, the miscreants were on probation for felonies and were not supposed to have firearms. Probation revoked, back to the slammer, and hefty fines; along with that, the word has been "out" for 3 years now, not to mess around on other peoples property. Our whole township has not had a trespassing incident since these young men went back to prison                Best of luck to you, keep up the good work.

Keep at it Jeff.It's hard to try to keep people out when they know no one is around.I had a little trouble,but since we started to live here things have been much better.It's still a chore to keep people from driving onto the field during hunting season.Now I bring out some trees,limbs and all and put them on the edge of the field,the 3 foot ditch by the road does the rest of the field.I would be really upset if someone knocked down something I had planted.Good luck.It's too bad you have someone that wants to be a jerk with taking pictures and trying to get you in trouble.It's your land and you can keep whoever and whatever you want off your land.

That is a very nice fence. As they say, a good fence makes good neighbors.  8)

Way to go, Boss.  I like the way the fence angles to cut off the view. 

On my last trespasser, I called the Sheriff and the miscreant was confronted by me and two deputies.  I am sure that I will have another one or two this hunting season. 

Good luck.  The message is clear, and if you persevere, maybe they will finally get the message.

Nice fence and a good relationship with the power company.

Ain't land ownership fun?  ::)

Utility companys are often good to work with once you get to the "right person". I had a situation on a logging job a couple years ago where the gas company wouldn't let us cross or haul the landowner's timber out along the gas line rights-of-way.

They said that the pipeline was only 3 feet deep and our heavy truck weights would damage their pipe. The landowner had the right to use the rights-of-way. Also, their pipelines are suppose to be a minimum of 5 feet deep. At least that is what they say when they install them. After a couple days of "what to do" and an upset landowner, I got in contact with discussed the situation with the gasline superindendent of maintenance.

Once he was aware of the situation, he had a foot of gravel placed over the line for our crossing and agreed to where we could run along it the line. The gas company also put up a gate at the entrance from the county road with a duel locking system for them and the landowner.

All worked out well and we actually improved relationships with the gas company and
we completed the timber harvest without further incident.

Jeff,

Way to go.  Like the fence, gate,  and your approach.  I've used this same approach before and I must say it's almost always had better results than asking questions or for permission first.  Always remember.... "To seek permission is to seek denial".  I wouldn't have done this any different.

SeeSaw

effective signs.

Got some that apparently made effective targets. Didn't see the bullseye when I put them up.

I was thinking, just for fun, I might make up a sign like this to put on the back side of my fence. ;D



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/fence.gif)

Jeff,

That works too.  I like it.  The only word I might add be the word "Now" right after "Out"

You might also add: You are in my sights and in camera range.  ;D

I considered FREAKIN FENCE as well.  :D

Write it around a bullseye and put a arrow in it  :D :D ;D

Just put on the sign " Please turn around and smile"

...and Did You Notice the Red Dot on Your CHEST?

adn mount a low power laser so it shines directly on the sign at chest height! :o

Here is a link to a very good "NO TRESPASSING" sign   http://www.loghomebuilders.org/keep-out-signs

I think those go beyond what I would want.  Those look like something I would put up if I was worried about getting caught doing something.

How about a sign with a simple question???????? Are you faster than a speeding bullit....Cheyenne