I've read several threads on getting rid of mold on green lumber. Basically bleach seems to diminish it. However, is there any simple way to proactively prevent or retard the growth of mold on lumber that will be dead piled for up to a month or more in warm weather ? I am thinking in terms of back pack sprayer spraying each layer of lumber in a lift with a solution, borate perhaps ? I would think the chlorine in bleach would be too volatile and blow off before each layer was covered over by the next layer.
Any idea of content and concentration ?
Warren
A 1:50 solution of zinc sulphate kills fungus. Copper sulphate would be better but leaves a blue-green stain.
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Warren, if the lumber is below 25% MC, and you sticker it and cover the pile to keep the rain off), I don't think that it will mold (unless you are in an incredibly humid environment).
I just wouldn't leave it dead piled for long - Gottta sticker it - If it's for someone else, I tell 'em to come get it, because of the mold, I don't have room to keep it anyway. For my own stuff, I've learned to sticker as I saw . You only handle the boards once that way.
There's several types of anti-stain treatments that you can get that will retard mold and sap stain. You can get them from a sawmill supply company. They come in a concentrate, then you mix with water. They are not cheap.
We use them on tulip poplar and oak in the summer months. Its so they don't turn before shipment, but we don't leave lumber dead piled for very long before shipment. The maples and birch may have a problem with finishes, so we don't use it on them. Saw and ship in as little time as possible.
We use a pump up sprayer. You put the solution in there and spray the layers so that they get wet. Then, stack your next layer. That gives you contact. If it dries out, then you should reapply. I'm not sure that this will work for more than 2-3 weeks in poplar, maybe longer in oaks, depending on how much sapwood you have.
Here's a technical report from Purdue:
http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/FNR/FNR-90.html
With dead piled lumber you have to worry about insects as well. Last summer I bought a bunch of white pine timbers. I stacked them on my trailer and threw a tarp over the whole thing when I got home. Went back about 10 days later and the carpenter ants had moved into the stack and almost destroyed a few timbers. We hand loaded the trailer from a stickered stack so I know the ants were not there when we brought it home. I was amazed how quickly they found the lumber up on the trailer and made them selfs at home.
Thinking out loud... Since I use a bandmill with water lube, what if I put a small amount of borate in the lube water ?
Pro's: The borate would be distributed across both faces of the cut at the time of sawing. No need for additional application equipment. No additional handling, except when filling the water tank. Would keep termites out of my sawdust pile...
Con's: Potential problem/reaction with lube pump, blades, roller guides. Potential issue with lube water run off dripping under the sawmill. Potentially limit use of sawdust for livestock bedding. May not be enough borate actually on the wood to prevent mold.
Thoughts ?
Warren
KGNC
The carpenter ants were just indicators that there was already wet, decayed wood in the timbers. They won't eat good wood, so the wet, decayed wood was already in the timbers.
When the timbers dry out a bit, the ants will leave. :)
Late last fall i cut some maple 24"x2''x10' . I could not sticker it till april2nd of this year. It was outside covered but dead piled. I was really mad at myslf and went to sticker it. It was perfact no mold no stain. it is pure white hard maple. It must of froze up and just thawed. I feel very lucky, I ve got 10 pieces
We're using Sta-Brite on our lumber, but they also make a brand called Premier for maple and birch. I can't comment on the borate, since I don't have any experience with it and don't know of anyone using it on hardwoods.
Just sticker the lumber. :-\
jim
Jim,
Yeah, I know stickers would work. But I'm lazy. I am trying to reduce material handling while sawing out wagon patterns. The desire is to bundle up the decking off the saw. Then when a farmer wants "a wagon kit" all I have to do is fork the bundle of decking and rails onto his truck or trailer. I was trying to avoid having to handle individual boards at the time of sale by already having the appropriate number of pieces bundled up ahead of time. Of course, there is no guarantee how long the lumber would sit in the bundle, at my place, or, at the farm.
If I read your initial post right and you are talking about dead-stacking green lumber for more than 3 days, then there is no way, in my opinion, that you can avoid mold. You're even pushing it with three days when the weather is humid or you have rain.
Saw the wood, remove the sawdust, it doesn't hurt to apply a mildicide (bleach), then sticker-stack it as soon as possible and put a roof over it. Keep it where it gets a good breeze and you will minimize mold.
If there were some shortcuts, we'd all be using them.
Quote from: Tom on May 04, 2007, 06:31:10 PM
.....If there were some shortcuts, we'd all be using them.
SO very,
very true der Tom
Why not just bundle up a wagon package with the wood stickered?
Add just a couple $ to the package to cover the stickers and send them with it.
Warren,
No offense. but if it's that much work, stay on the porch and let someone else sell the farmer the wood. Come on man! Get that blood flowing.
Reid
Somebody before mentioned using diesel in a hand sprayer, to stop mold. I think I'd consider using diesel in the blade lube....
N
I only dead pile low-grade lumber but I do use diesel for blade lub. I still get mold in dead piled lumber. Don't think sufficient diesel is used for blade lub to do any good.
Tom, Yeah, I didn't figure there were any short cuts. But I'm that kinda person, I just gotta ask... It's a wonder I survived as a child with always asking "Why ?"
Reid, You know how lazy us ex-computer types are ! :D Seriously, I don't have an issue with doing the work. I just want to only do it once... I've been told, if I am not making sawdust, I am not making money. Therefore the less time I spend handling/moving/sorting, the more time I have to make sawdust. I've been getting good feedback both from the guys buying my wagon flats as well as the guys buying the kits. Just trying to make sure the quality is still there, even if a bundle ends up sitting somewhere for a month or so. Somehow, I had dead piled lumber grow mold this past winter when the it was freezing outside. So, don't want to take a chance in warm weather.
I will probably tinker with Furby's idea of stickering the decking off the saw and bundling it with the stickers left in when I shift back to wagon sawing/building next week.
Warren
Maybe use some of the pieces of the kit as the sticks?
Edging scraps could be used as sticks also.
Sounds to me that spraying would be more labor than sticking, unless you stack and send it to a dip tank.
jim
Warren,
I used to hate cutting stickers and spent hours online looking for a economical manmade sticker substitute. I finally gave up and embraced sticker-cutting. Now, I cut stickers for a living . . . .alright I made that part up but I don't mind cutting them as much as used to; I have accepted it as part of the whole enchilada, and look to it as a challenge to make the best stickers south of the Red River and west of the Great River. 8)
QuoteI've been told, if I am not making sawdust, I am not making money.
If yer always CUTTING, what good is all that moldy lumber doin ya, while yer always CUTTING ??? ::) ::)
Somewhere around here, I believe Ron started a thread about "Why quality counts " ??? ;) :) :)
Ok. It's that time of year again.
Same problem; We can't accumulate a trailer truck load of oak lumber fast enough to keep it from staining before delivery.
What we're having to resort to is hauling 6 smaller loads per month on our ton Dodge. That cost us a good bit more in direct cost of shipping and take up 6 days a month on the road. I can say that the cost of shipping per board feet will go from about 5 cents a board foot by tractor trailer to 10 cents a board foot doing it ourselves on our Dodge. That's more than the lowest grade is bringing!
Looking at getting a gooseneck trailer so we can haul more per trip but the numbers on the added expense don't look good. Bigger truck? Same situation.
Back to Sta-Brite P. Lots of good info here about how to apply it, etc.
But what does it cost to apply per board foot? Anyone got a figure (or a guess) on that?
Dry is the best prevention.Small bundles 1 1/2" siickers air is free,makes the pile look larger.Frank C.
Stickering is good, but we are getting into that time of year here, that without constant 'breeze' in the stickered stacks, mildew/mold/insects are still problematic. Even then, there is still concern.
Bleach water works about as well as anything I've found...for Stickered lumber. Fresh sawn or not completely dried lumber here, stacked, will start growing as one overnight.
I use a sprayer of insecticide all in and around the perimeter and the bleachwater on any lumber that 'smells' as though it might need it.
Quote from: Bibbyman on April 24, 2009, 03:41:28 AM
.....
Back to Sta-Brite P. Lots of good info here about how to apply it, etc.
But what does it cost to apply per board foot? Anyone got a figure (or a guess) on that?