The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: Rob on March 18, 2003, 02:12:41 PM

Title: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 18, 2003, 02:12:41 PM
Do any of you guys here own one of these "Nick The Grinder" chain grinders??If you do what do you think of them,also do they have a tilt vise for the 10* to sharpen full chisel chain??I have been interested in buying one but can't find anyone who has one yet..

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43955
                               Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rick Schmalzried on March 18, 2003, 04:18:03 PM
I have one and have been satisfied with it.  You don't have any tilt, just a pivot for the angle.  It is certainly not a commercial duty job, but it has paid for itself in sharpening chains for Perry and myself.  It is highly recommended on the yahoo milling forum.

--Rick
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 18, 2003, 05:33:12 PM
Thanks for the info Rick I appreciate it,I'm just looking for something to touch up older chains..
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: OneWithWood on March 19, 2003, 07:33:48 AM
I have tried many a tool for sharpening chains.  The best by far has been the good old single file.  It may take some practice to get it right but ultimately you end up with the best job.  As a bonus you can solve many a dilemma while you are filing (https://forestryforum.com/smile/thinking2.gif)
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 19, 2003, 07:57:14 AM
I have no problems with free hand filing thats how I've been doing it for the past 7 years,but I have about 50-75 older chains that are sitting on the shelf that still have some life to them but they are chipped,rocked etc..and I don't really want to spend a week free handing them,so I figured I could give them a quick grind then give a few strokes with a file after..for the lightning fast cuts.. ;D

                                   Thanks Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Greg on March 19, 2003, 09:21:12 AM
Speaking of hand filing,

Can someone give some guidance on how much pressure you put on a round file when touching up a chain? I am pretty new to sharpening my own chains... I am trying to follow the advice of touching them up frequently rather than getting a super dull chain requiring a tool like Nick the Grinder.

Personally, by touch, I can't seem to feel a big difference in the cutter tooth after filing. Wish I had a "sharpness" detector that would tell me on a scale of 1 to 10 how I'm doing ;-)

I'm wondering how much powder/filings you all usually get when sharpening. Maintaining the angles doesn't seem to be much of a problem for me, but I'm still second guessing myself for either not filing hard enough, or taking too much each time.

Just don't have the feel yet, and haven't been able to watch a good hand filer up close to see what they do.

Cheers,
Greg
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: beenthere on March 19, 2003, 10:12:49 AM
I use a new or nearly new file, and make one stroke when I am touching up. If that doesn't leave a sharp edge, then I give every tooth two strokes. I have no trouble telling if the file is cutting or is not cutting. Not sure how to describe it any better than that.

If you have a dull file, then it is hard to tell when to stop or keep going. If you have touched the dirt, or hit a rock, and the teeth are bad, then file until there is an edge and keep all the teeth close to the same length, angle, and depth.  

I touch up the chain after each tank of fuel (unless I touch the dirt, then I do it right away). I rotate between two chains, and when two chains are worn out, I replace them and also put on a new sprocket.

I also have tried the different devices, and come back to doing the sharpening by hand, for the best job.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Larry on March 19, 2003, 02:14:58 PM
I like files also.  Hard to carry a grinder when you're 1/2 mile from the truck.  Took me a while to figure that out so I have a few gadgets that gather dust in the shed.

I do about the same as beenthere except I get a little more time on the sprockets.  Also I flip the bar every time I change chains (or have a derailment :-[).
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Larry on March 19, 2003, 02:31:15 PM
Rob,
Forgot one thing.  Don't ever hit rocks here but barbwire is pretty common and will sure mess up a few teeth.  I take the flat file and work the burr off.  Don't round file until the rest of the teeth are the same height.  Really piths me off but in the end I only have a few extra chains hanging around.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 19, 2003, 02:32:25 PM
Ok guys are you getting what I'm saying hear I always free hand file all my chains and have been doing so for years it's just I have a collection of older chains on a shelf that have been rocked,minor chips etc..that I would like a cheap grinder for getting the angles etc..back to where they should be and then after I take them off the grinder I will make 1-2 strokes with a file to get them perfect..I don't plan on carrying a grinder with me.. ;)

I always no matter how good of shape my rim sprockets are in change them after 2 chains,I also flip my bar & sprocket daily to help wear them evenly..You guys are definetly right nothing beats free hand filing in the long run..

                          Thanks for the info
                                    Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Mark M on March 19, 2003, 09:04:57 PM
Hi Rob

I used one of those chain grinders when I was in high school and it really worked slick. It would work great on those old chains since it is hard to file one down and have it be symmetrical. I used to use one of those little Carlton File Plates on my Jonsered saw but now I have a Stihl and don't know if it would work. It isn't a Carlton chain so I am thinking it won't.

Mark
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 20, 2003, 03:52:17 AM
 Larry,

       I hear ya on the barb wire I have only hit that once so far and was'nt very happy about it thats for sure..You don't really see all that much wire up this way anymore but I'm sure it's still growin' into the trees :(

 Mark,

       Those Carlton File O Plate's are a slick lttle tool I have a few of them I really like them for lowering the rakers (Depth Gauge),they will also work on Oregon chains thats what I use and it works great.

                                 Later Rob.
Title: Re: Carlton File O Plate
Post by: Crofter on March 20, 2003, 05:50:20 AM
There are many different file o plates specifically for different models of Carlton chain. Some will give suitable raker clearance when used on different brand chains ( depending on that particulary chain ) and some will give you a greater cleaarance than it would on a Carlton chain. You have to check each combination before you can assume that it is correct. Remember that putting metal back on is much harder than taking it off!

Frank
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: OneWithWood on March 20, 2003, 06:20:38 AM
Rob,
I tried using a hand grinder to dress up some of my older chains that somehow met the ground.  I was not happy with the finished product and ended up hand filing anyway.  It took more than just a couple of strokes to get them back to where they needed to be.  Of course it may be I jest can't power file worth a DanG :D
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on March 20, 2003, 12:00:27 PM
Dan,

    Your right maybe I'll just spend this weekend free handing all of these old chains..instead of spending more money for a tool that I really don't need..Power filing is the only way to go  ;)

                             Thanks Rob.
Title: Re:Carlton File O Plate
Post by: wooddawg on March 26, 2003, 05:48:37 AM
I have a box full of them round out in the shed if anyone needs a certain one let me know I may have it.bought abunch of stuff last year from a guy
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: JD_Kid on May 30, 2003, 05:36:23 AM
Hi ya's
what did ya end up doing rob??i have tryed a few grinders all 12V one had the round stones (like a file)good but did not realy sharpen to well ,my new one is for sharping my mill  8)but i got the grind stone for it too (4 inch disk kinda deal) this one ya clamp on ya bar and set ya angles "bingo" ya grinding ..Just had a look at ya link with nick the grinder the one i got is kinda the same but ya set the angles on the grinder where that one i think ya move the base (the mini bar the chains in)good for doing what ya talking about or just to true ya chains once in a while ..i'll have a look at the box and give ya more info if ya want
catch ya
JD Kid
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on May 30, 2003, 05:46:04 AM
JD,

     So far I have just stuck with free hand filing but will be buying a Oregon 511A in the near future or maybe a Maxx Grinder from a guy I know..

                                         Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: JD_Kid on May 30, 2003, 04:02:38 PM
Hi ya Rob
i don't know the grinders ya talking about but when i worked in the bush once a week the guys would have there chains ground (cutting alot of trees with dirt/grit under the bark)files are good but for what ya doing with older or chiped chains i'd grind ..the only thing i got to ask is how do ya end up with 60-70 odd chains??? all my chains are tossed with no teeth or worn that bad the side links start braking ,i would have had a grinder years ago or droped them off at the shop while buy new ones
catch ya
JD Kid
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on May 30, 2003, 04:22:38 PM
JD,

     About 40 of the chains I have are from a fellow logger who just changes the chains after filing them 4-5 times,so they're still half there so I took them for myself.The others are just some chains I have had laying around for a while in the shop.I go through a few chains a week if I'm busy roughly 3-4 thats cutting 60mbf of Red Oak that I have cut,limbed,and bucked to length.I don't run my chains down till they break thats aking for trouble.

                                 Gotta fly
                                     Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Kevin on May 30, 2003, 04:30:09 PM
I have the 511 and I'm very happy with it.
I can sharpen the 91 series chains and the standard 3/8 pitch plus take the rakers down.
I usually file my chains but when they become uneven I can true them up pretty quick with the 511.
Once I'm set up it's too easy!
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on May 30, 2003, 05:06:21 PM
Thats exactly what I want a grinder for to reset the correct angles after freehanding the chains a few times,and to get rid of any nicks etc..faster.

                                     Thanks Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: KiwiCharlie on May 30, 2003, 11:54:33 PM
G'day Guys,
I hand file while out in the field, usually after each tankful of gas, sometimes less (try hand filing a chain on a 42" bar and you will know what I mean!! - thats a lot of teeth).  I have a bar mounted Granberg hand filing jig for keeping the angles spot on, which is the most important thing.  I would like to get a grinder, and that would be the 511 for sure.  I got a diagram from someone on how to make that model reversible, but for the life of me, I cant find it now!!  ::)  One thing to remember is its really easy to take the hardness out of the teeth with a grinder.  You need to take small grinds at a time, and maybe use Cool-Grind, or something similar, to keep the heat down, or your nice new big teeth chain wont hold an edge ever again!!  :o
Cheers
Charlie.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: JD_Kid on May 31, 2003, 04:13:07 AM
Hi ya's
keeping the grinds cool is the main thing one thing i have found is with the file kinda stones very eazy to heat up cutters but with the grinder i have now ya don't seem to have any heating .
Rob ya made a good score getting 1/4-1/2 worn chains ya maybe in for a shock when ya get a grinder i always thought i filed my chains well and better than a shop or new chain grind and i thought i had the angles right ,i'm off by a few degres ..trick with grinders is use them before ya go too far out of whack and if ya got a bad chip take it down in steps i have seen some guys try and take 1/8 of a tooth off in one hit smoke coming off the cutters then ask why it will not hold a edge.. the side links i had brake were on one lot of chain ,i don't buy that chain anymore must have been a bad lot as it streched all the time and know of others that had the same probs

oh yea while on grinders kiwicharlie ya do a lot of slabing what angle ya got on ya cutters???
catch ya
JD Kid
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: KiwiCharlie on June 04, 2003, 12:07:02 AM
G'day JD,
I tried the Granberg style with 0deg cutters, but now exclusively use the Oregon 27RA .404 .063 (kudos to Kevin!).  As Im only ripping slabs, not dimension, kerf size doesnt bother me.  Its got a 15deg angle on the cutters.
Works like a dream, straight from the roll!
Cheers
Charlie
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: hills_logging on June 14, 2003, 08:42:16 PM
several companies make a 12volt had held grinder thats pretty cheap($30-40). they are kinda like a dremmel tool. They work ok, if you don't get along with a file.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: jokers on June 17, 2003, 08:43:18 PM
Hey Rob, did you get a grinder yet? Grinders are just like every other means of sharpening chain, there is a learning curve. There are also other aspects to consider such as wheel speed and diameter. Too high a speed requires a very deft touch to avoid burning. The smaller diameter wheels also seem to be harder to center properly so that you get an even and symetrical grind on both sides. I won`t profess to know everything about grinders but I will gladly share my experiences. I have found that with the 511A type grinders it pays to have a cheap set of locking calipers handy to check the length of the first side ground and then adjust to grind the other side to an equal length. You don`t even need to read the caliper, just slap it on the short point of the sideplate and lock it then adjust the other side accordingly. I find that the right side of the 511A s usually grinds slightly shorter if you don`t compensate. You may also find that the depth of grind adjustment varies from side to side. It takes a little trial and error to get a perfect grind but once you get used to your particular grinder it becomes an unconscious second nature. A nice to have feature if you run chisel chain is a tilting chain vise to put the proper 10° bevel on the inside of the top plate. I`ve tried all different ways of sharpening and I believe that the proper bevel does make a difference. For Oregon chain, which is what I primarily run, the factory sharpening specs all call for the 10°s, seems important to them also. The 511A types tilt, with the exception of the hydraulic clamping models, and the Silvey 510 and 300 have the tilt built in. Another nice feature for a grinder is a reversable motor or some other means of getting the grinding burr on the inside of the tooth. Current 511As won`t do this but the Max allows you to spin the vise around to emulate a reversable motor and the vise also slides fore and aft for centering the wheel. I too have the diagram to convert the 511A to reversable but it requires the addition of a switch, getting a duplicate to the switches in the factory wired reversable grinders seems better. There are several older grinders around like the Foley 394 and Bell K245 that work very well also. Keep your eyes peeled on ebay and you may find a deal. Sorry for the long post, I could actually post more, LOL.

Russ
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2003, 05:04:17 AM
Russ,

        Thanks for the info I appreciate it,no I have'nt gotten a grinder yet I have been debating switching over to square ground chains so I may be looking for a Silvey Razur Sharp instead but I guess we'll wait an see..Thanks again amd your right the 10* does make a difference.

                                   Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: smwwoody on July 01, 2003, 11:58:20 PM
Hi  Rob

Ive been logging on the east coast for 15 years now and ran a saw shop for about 9 years.  I had a 511A in the shop mainly to sharpen chains for the firewood cutters that would come in with them stoned half way back the cutter.  it worked great.  we always hand file all of our roung ground chain.  Unless you hit some thing real bad.  then once we get a bunch of stoned chains piled up I will dress them up with the grinder.  This works well just remember with the small diameter and high speed wheel like on the 511A it is real easy to burn the cutters.  just take it slow and easy gring off a little at a time you may have to make like 8 or so passes on each side of the chain to save a bad one.

sively is the only way to go with the square ground.

we run a lot of square groung chain on our felling saws and realy like it.  it is real tough to hand file you are better off if when you have to hand file a square groung chain to just go after it with a round file and sharpen it like you would a normal oregon LG chain.  you just won't have those little ref lines to go by on top of the cutters.  but if you have been sharpening for as long as you have been in the woods the angle on the cutters should be second nature for you
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: Rob on July 02, 2003, 05:25:29 AM
Hi woody,

        Thanks for the tips,I have been looking into the Silvey grinders alot lately I think I will be purchasing one hopefully within the next month or so,I have run alot of Square Ground CL on my 385XP an I just like the chain for it's smoothness in cutting,plus it's a tad bit faster cutting than a LG chain  ;D..believe me I have no problem filing LG chains by hand with or without the engraved top plate angle,I've been doing it long enough now I know the angle.Well I will keep you guys posted as too what grinder I buy soon..thanks again

                                       Rob.
Title: Re: Chain Grinders
Post by: KiwiCharlie on July 03, 2003, 10:21:48 PM
G'day Rob,
You cant go wrong with a Silvey!  I always say its worth waiting a bit and buying the best you can get.  Do let us know how you get on!
Cheers
Charlie.