The Forestry Forum

They're talking about banning them in San Francisco.  A half trillion are produced every year.  Bring back the old brown bag?

Ends 6/4/07

I've always hated them. We made canvas bags to take shopping. Reused them for years.

i like the plastic bag, but I do have to consider the envirnmental impact.

I like them so that I can carry 75 lbs of groceries in one trip.

Here in town for years they always used to ask me if I wanted "Paper or Plastic"  I hope its not my fault they quit giving us the choice of using paper after I started answering "I don't care, I'm Bi-Sack-Sual."  You never get the option around here anymore for paper. Its kinda nice up to the cabin. When we go to Cedarville grocery, they have brown paper bags with the carry handles on them and don't use plastic at all. They also still have carry-out boys that take your groceries to the car.

The save-a-lot grocery stores that are around this area provide no bags for groceries. They have a limited supply of boxes that merchandise comes in, other then that, you either bring your own sacks or boxes, or take the cart to the vehicle and unload it.

I don't like 'em -  even though you can carry plenty in them.  We can't seem the throw them out around here.  They just keep piling up.  At least the paper ones can be used for things like starting the fireplace or wrapping wet wood bowls in.  Is a ban really neccesary?

I see them blowing all over the road.

A ban insinuates that the "Government" is imposing rules and regulations because we are too stupid to do it ourselves. Personally, I'm a bit leary of turning everything over to the "Government".  I like to make my own decisions sometimes.  Why can't we just say, "I don't want a plastic bag".  If they don't have paper bags then you can always leave your groceries on the checkout counter and go somewhere else.  :)

No, I don't want them banned either. However I do prefer the paper, only because they someday rot away if left to blow around the countryside. I think a better idea is to make the plastic ones biodegradable so they will melt into the ground like paper when left outdoors.

I don't like "banning" inantimacies.  If one doesn't want to use them, and make an environmental statement, well that's exercising one's individual freedom.  

I'm about 'six of one/half dozen of another' on the matter.  It doesn't cause me grief or discomfort when I use them for toting goods that I have purchased.  At the few places where there is a choice, I get paper because I like the feel and smell of it better than the plastic.

Deadheader's got the proper note, in furnishing one's own reuseable tote bag.  Especially if they are so intriniscally environmentally conscientious as to want to create a ban.  Heck, just change a letter and create a bag instead.   :D

I found a good use for plastic bags. I use them for starting a fire in the wood stove. I made a frame that I hang the bag on and fill it with the chips and bark that fall off when I split fire wood. Put one in the wood stove with a wad of paper, throw a couple logs on top and the fire starts right up. In the spring and fall when you don't need a fire just a little warmth I put 1 or 2 in the stove and take the chill off the room.

I like a more capitalistic way of getting the job done.  Put a 25 cent deposit on each bag or 50 cents maybe.  Whoever brings them back gets the money. It might even change my behavior and I might get a bunch of cloth bags that I reuse.

I hate bans a whole lot more than I hate incentives to get me to do one thing or another.

I would love to see a packaging tax based on the weight of the package paid by the people who package there products in almost unopenable bomb proof oversized containers. 

I don't like the idea of banning things. Citizens as a group should just not use them, and they will go away on their own. I like the idea of the markets not offering anything to hual your groceries with. You will find your own solution one way or the other. ;) Seems to me there are better things to use our wood and plastic products for. It seems every time I stop in a store for lunch or a snack, they are trying to put it in a bag. This really bothers me, and I have all the regular places I go trained, they know I don't want a bag. Do they really think that my sandwich is going to stay in the bag all the way to the truck? Nope. If they are lucky I'll finish it before I leave and maybe buy another one, not going to happen if I have to start a major excavation to find where the hid my lunch.


Dave

Aldi's charges for bags, but you are free to bring in your own of any type or use what boxes they have.
I find it's easier to simply push the cart to the truck, toss the stuff in and carry it inside in groups as to where it belongs when I get home.

We have a Save-A-Lot here too.Same way here.We have a grocery store here in Maine that use to have the best plastic bags,Hannafords.But there are real thin now,like Walmarts are.Put a box in just wrong and it will cut the bag.When I use to bag grocery,in brown bags,there were no choice,it was a act to baging.Now the kunckel heads don't have a clue.Comes down to training.They put soap and bread in the same bag.Or they try too.I tell them don't do that and rebag it the right way.I would not miss the plastic bags.Try to ask for a freezer bag.We really gets some looks on that.In my day we went out with the customer with more than one bag.Most of the time now,they don't even ask.

However, the masses take the easy route.  There has to be incentives or decentives to bring about change.  Take recycling.  If you had to pay for not recycling, more would recycle.  For every person who wants to do the right thing, there are 4 who don't care as long as it is cheaper.  At our houe every week when we set out the garbage in the big plastic hinge-lid plastic garbage container, it is about 1/3rd full because we recyle everything.  For the most part, however, the neighbor's containers are full to overflowing.  There is no incentive to recycle around here except for personal dedication and person principle.  Yet, I am having to pay for to expand the landfill.  Maybe government regulation is not the answer, maybe economic persuasion would work a whole lot better :). 

If there is incentive offered, Government hasn't the sense or means to do it. Government lays out mandates.  "Thou shall, or Shant, or else".   If they had the means to offer a reward for doing it rather than punishment for not, I'd be a little easier on them (it).

When I refuse the bag at the checkout counter, the clerk throws it in the trash.  Heck, I could do that if I wanted to tote it home.  It takes a little common sense on both ends of the transaction.

Regarding whether or not things should be banned or not reminds me of an incident around here in the mid eighties. This was when recycling was just taking off, and one local town was doing a trial run. The spokesperson, and main proponent, of the effort was quoted in the paper saying that if recycling was widely accepted, they would make it mandatory, and that if it wasn't, they would not.  ??? ??? Yeah, that makes sense, I wish they would apply the same logic to paying taxes. ;D


Dave

Something that irritates me is when the checkout person puts only two or three things in a bag.  Then you end up with 10 times the number of bags neccesary.

Let's just ban banning. ::)

I kinda like the plastic bags, but we get entirely too many of'em.  We use'em for all kinds of things.  They make great garbage bags, and you take the trash out more often because they're smaller.  They're just right for the bathrooms and bedroom, though.  I use'em in the freezer to keep the thinly wrapped stuff from freezer burning.  We put our other recyclables in them to take out to the road.  They make a great litter bag for the truck or car.  I keep a paper towel tube stuffed full of them in each vehicle, to use for whatever need might arise.  Linda is a Nurse, and has to wear white shoes to work.  When the weather is bad, she'll tie a couple of bags to her feet to use as temporary galoshes.  Makes a serviceable rain hat in a pinch, too.  Ain't y'all ever used one for a suitcase?  C'mon, tell the truth now. ;D :D  I always pack a couple to bring the dirty clothes home in, when traveling.  You can get rid of a lot of them when the garden comes in.  Just pack'em with zuchinni and leave'em on peoples doorstep. ;D  Ever have to change out the starter on your truck and take the old one in to trade for a new one?  Use the wife's new car for that trip?  Toss that greasy starter into the back seat?  Heck no, ya put it in a plastic grocery sack!  Gotta watch that parts guy though.  He'll try to steal your sack.  I went to see my folks tonite, and took them a plastic grocery bag full of fresh-dug new potatoes.  Mom sent Linda's supper back in yet another plastic grocery bag.  Oh yeah, I beat my Old Man out of a pgb full of potting soil, while I was there.  There's a pgb on a coat hanger in the closet where we put wore out clothes.  When it is full, I take it to the shop for wiping rags.  Usable discards go in another pgb for a trip to Goodwill.

After all that, we put all the excess pgb's in another pgb and drop it in the recycle bin by the door at the grocery store.  I still ask for paper bags when I get a chance.  They're handy for all sorts of things, too. ;D

For all the ones that voted yes, would you also vote the same way if the question also asked if you would be willing to pay more taxes for the government to pass and enforce a ban?   ;D

Proposed new law (I know, this is a law in-and-of itself  ;));  when any new law is passed, 10 existing laws must be repealed.  Wouldn't take too long before lawbreakers lawmakers would have to think long and hard before passing new laws.  :)  I think there'd be a lot of support for a candidate whose platform was, "I'm going to Washington and vote against everything."  When did being a legislator go from being a part-time to a full-time job?  I say meet 2 weeks out of the year and then go back to the farm or law office and earn a living like the rest of us poor slobs.   8)

I'm with Dan. We use them for everything from trash can liners to dirty clothes bags when I travel. They are easier to carry and scrunch down to store alot of them in a small space.

what I hate is when people throw them out and they are lining the streets and caught up in the trees. Why do people have to be so messy?

Jon

I tell you what to ban, cigarette filters. Those things lay around for ever and they are everywhere. Can't recycle those filters.   :)

The new plastic bags are biodegradeable, so it really doesnt matter.   Thats the only thing that bugs me, seeing them blowing around everywhere in the breeze and hanging off trees, wires, fences.   If they can rot then I see no problem with them.

As long as we're on da trash subject, I'll bring up my pet peav, fast food packaging. Slobs dat are in such a hurry they gotta eat fast food, but are too lazy ta use a garbage can.  :( 
It's easier ta toss da McDonald's and Burger King crap out da window.  :'(

Support loggers use paper bags and ban the plastic ones ;D ;D :) :)

What he said

Too late!  They've done tore down the paper mills around here and hauled all that scrap steel to China.  In their place, Georgia Pacific has built a humongous new OSB plant 30 miles inland to utilize the millions of acres of pine that was planted for paper wood.  The loggers are busier than ever, and the town where the paper mill was has turned into a yuppie haven, surrounded by fields of McMansions, all built out of OSB.  The exact site of the old paper mill is now a shipping port.  It gained a toeholt in that business when Katrina tore up so many other ports.  The railroad behind my house, which once only served the paper mill, is more active than it has been in years, with the plant and the port to serve.

People are moving into the area in droves from all over the place.  Most of them are Yankees(a generic term denoting anyone from North of the Mason/Dixon) re-migrating from S. Fla, where they are being crowded out by other Yankees.  While most of the Country is in a housing slump, new starts are up by about 300% in this area.  By the time I finish my house, I may hafta sell out($,$$$,$$$) and retire up north where there ain't so many Yankees.  Meanwhile, we gonna need a whole scrappolaload of them little plastic bags.

I like getting lots of plastic bags, it is what I throw the loaded down disposable diapers in when changing my kids. I figue that is around 18,000+ plastic bags in five years.  :o

I tried the diaper services, service was so terrible and so expensive I canceled it.

What they should do is make plastic bags out of coated corn starch so once it gets wet it starts to slowly dissolve. I have noticed the new thin bags do tend to fall apart now ... before you even get out of the store.

Quote from: DanG on May 23, 2007, 12:23:43 PM

People are moving into the area in droves from all over the place.  Most of them are Yankees(a generic term denoting anyone from North of the Mason/Dixon) re-migrating from S. Fla, where they are being crowded out by other Yankees.  While most of the Country is in a housing slump, new starts are up by about 300% in this area.  By the time I finish my house, I may hafta sell out($,$$$,$$$) and retire up north where there ain't so many Yankees.  Meanwhile, we gonna need a whole scrappolaload of them little plastic bags.

I resemble that remark! :D ;D ::) :-*

I don't have a problem with them, but I prefer to see them recycled than just deposited in the landfill.  Our local chain grocery stores all accept them for recycling.

Captain

We found a good use for them but you need quite a few.  If you pack a burlap bag full, it makes a good self healing archery target. You can't shoot through them.

The grocery store I work at sells fabric grocery bags that a lot of people use regularly. Cuts down on the plastic.

I'm with Corley if your in the wood business you should support the industry. Use paper not plastic.  I live next to a recycling center and can't tell you how many of them bags get away and blow over on my place. Paper bags and cardboard get wet and soon disappear but those plastic bags blow around forever. Something else I hate styrofoam it's worse than plastic. If they want a new tax try taxing non biodegradable packaging. Ban plastic go paper keep the loggers in business.

I agree on supporting the loggers but our paper is now coming from other countries too.  Besides the paper beverage container are not very enviromental friendly either.  I think the customer should have the choice, not governments deciding for them.  We have enough stupid laws already here.

Farmerdoug

Some paper is coming from other countries, but the trees that make the with the strongest paper are our very own southern yellow pines.  That's what most paper bags are made of.

Our own southern pine has very long fibers, technically called tracheids.  They provide the most strength and the highest absorptivity, so most diapers and highly absorptive products require southern pine.  Diaper pulp, called fluff pulp because it is fluffed up into a willowly wad, is shipped all over the world.  Also, the strength of the long southern pine tracheid makes it ideal for cardboard and corrugated liner.  At least we have a few advantages............ ::)

Gary C.  -  AMEN !  Enuf govermnet spending to tell us what to do or not to do.

Thurlow - Agreed.  Reminds me of a fictional story I read one time of a place where all of the people came to together once a year.  One of the tasks was for a citizen to stand up and recite all of the laws that had been established from memory.  If he couldn't recite all of them from memory, then it was time to start thinning out the laws....

Somehow politicians don't understand KISS....

I have bought a chocolate bar, and a small jug of chocolate milk and the merchant put it in a plastic bag.....  They seem to not be able to sell you stuff unless it's in a bag....  I could have managed carrying the 2 items out to the car, where I was going to eat them anyway!

I would rather see reusable bags / paper bags used. We have reusable ones.

I work in a 100% recycle paper mill.  We make a grade called corrugated medium.  That is the stuff the fluted part of a cardboard box is made of.  From time to time though we drop the weight of our sheet down and make grocery bag paper.  We don't have a choice at Walmart but the local grocery has both. 

I take paper when given the choice but I'm biased. ;D ;D

I'm with DanG - use 'em every which way till they fall apart then they are "garbage" bags. Haven't bought real garbage bags since I can't remember when. Use 'em for dirty clothes bags (etc ) when going to woods or a trip with same result. Great for hauling bait ( be it for baaarrrrr or fish ).