The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => Tree, Plant and Wood I.D. => Topic started by: WDH on June 05, 2007, 09:57:25 PM

Title: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID...Solved!!.....Maple-Leaf Viburnum
Post by: WDH on June 05, 2007, 09:57:25 PM
 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_1710.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_1711.JPG)

What is this plant?
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 05, 2007, 10:04:56 PM
I know those leaves! I just can't remeber what they are! ::) I should be better at this game than I am. How about a Cornus? Maybe Florida? Probably way off. It's probably a picture of a chicken for all the luck I have been having lately.


Dave
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 05, 2007, 10:10:12 PM
Dave, you got it right!  It is not a chicken ;D.  It is also not a cornus ::).
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Tom on June 05, 2007, 10:11:13 PM
I don't know which leaves go witht the flowers.  Could be hog plum.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: tcsmpsi on June 06, 2007, 11:14:11 AM
The leaves for that little bugger are the ones that, when one walks around it, seem as though they will stick you, but are actually much softer than they appear.

An initial whiff of the flowers blooming seem, at first, to be rather adversely pungent, amost to the point of 'stink'.   A more in depth olfactory experience, however, is quite pleasant.  Almost intoxicating.

That's what it is.      ;D   A 'swamp' creature. 
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Tom on June 06, 2007, 11:21:10 AM
not prunus, could be a mint


.....I don't know.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dan_Shade on June 06, 2007, 11:56:33 AM
mountain laurel
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 06, 2007, 02:29:30 PM
I'm pretty sure its initials are V.d., but don't worry, it's not contagious  ;D
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 06, 2007, 02:49:57 PM
Aha! Thanks DL, it must be a Viburnum of some sort. Are we playing with books or without?
We are talking about the leaf in the upper left in the second picture, right?

Dave
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Tom on June 06, 2007, 03:02:58 PM
That would be cool!  If it's a Viburnum it culls it down to 1:15,000,000 :D
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 06, 2007, 03:03:20 PM
All the leaves I see belong to the same plant, although some are more 'typical' than others.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Tom on June 06, 2007, 03:05:43 PM
I initially misread some because I was seeing partial leaves mixed in and figured it was a trick.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 06, 2007, 09:35:22 PM
Here is another pic.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_1712.JPG)

Look at the leaves in the background on the left side of the photo.  They are more "text-book" typical.  As you can see, it has an opposite leaf arrangement.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 07, 2007, 12:22:21 AM
We've got'em planted in the courtyard at Warnell.  Is that one planted, or did you find it growing wild?
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 07, 2007, 07:38:10 AM
DL,

Found it in the wilds of East Texas. 

OK, y'all, Dodgy Loner is hanging back on this one (what you would call a gracious Dendro fanatic), so somebody drive the nail home on this one :).
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 08, 2007, 09:00:11 AM
*chirp chirp, chirp chirp*...Anyone?  Surely someone has a plant ID book that covers viburnums in the southeast.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 08, 2007, 11:18:14 AM
Well, if we are going to use books, then I say it's a viburnaum dentatum, arrowwood viburnum.


Dave
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 08, 2007, 11:33:29 AM
There was a farmer had a dog...

Next time, you can just pretend that you knew it all along.  Books?  What books? ;)
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: bitternut on June 08, 2007, 04:57:03 PM
Heck, thats an easy one. Its Highbush Cranberry. I just got done trimming the grass around one in my yard about 5 minutes ago. Mine still has the berries on it from last year along with this years new blossoms. There are a couple of Catbirds that have been gorging themselves on them the last couple of weeks. Never knew Catbirds to eat berries but I watch them in there all the time lately eating them. I think there are enough to last them the rest of the summer.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 08, 2007, 05:46:43 PM
Viburnum trilobum is our highbush cranberry in the Maritimes. There isn't a line fence or abandoned field that hasn't got a clump of Viburnum trilobum in these parts. We also have V. edule here in the Maritimes, but it's called squashberry and grows on wet poor ground.

The flowers and leaves are different in our species, V. trilobum , and they grow up to 15 feet tall. I cut a lot out of the back yard a few years ago that were 3 inches at the stump. Talk about ruffed grouse attractant. They will come across a 100 acre open field for those berries. They have cranberry honing radar.  :D :D I have a small one on the front lawn, just starting to flower now. Yup, I've seen a grouse on occasion honing in on my bush. The flowers on our variety V. trilobum have a lot of sterile ones along the perimeter of the cluster and the arrangement reminds you of 'Queen Anne's Lace'. The EurAsian variety Viburnum opulus var. americanum or  also known as Viburnum opulus subsp. americanum is said to be potentially poisonous when green, and for some reason is the only one listed in Peterson's Guide to Medicinal Plants. Shame. They are not actually cranberries, but they taste the same. Cranberries are Vaccinium sp., just as blue berries. Alaskan blue berries in fact taste like cranberries. I've seen them canned in the west. Huckleberries also fall in the same family as blueberries, and they taste similar to cranberries.

Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 08, 2007, 11:25:04 PM
Some of the leaves on this plant are distinctly 3 lobed.  Look at the last pic in the background on the top left quadrant of the pic.  See the distinct 3-lobed leaves?  I think that it might be maple-leaf viburnum (Viburnum acerifolium).  It is definitely either maple-leaf or arrowwood viburnum.  Sometimes maple-leaf viburnum will have unlobed leaves.  How about arrowwood viburnum.  Does it sometimes have 3-lobed leaves?
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 09, 2007, 02:36:45 PM
Are you sure the one in the background with the 3-lobed leaves isn't a different plant? ???  I've seen maple-leaf viburnums that had a few unlobed leaves, but the leaves still had acuminate tips.  The close-up leaves lack acuminate tips.  I've also never seen an arrowwood viburnum with 3 lobes, but I suppose it could happen.  Looks like this mystery ain't solved yet.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 09, 2007, 04:38:03 PM
It is possible that an arrowwood viburnum and a maple-leaf viburnum were growing side by side.  But, if so, I did not notice it.  I took the pic thinking it was a maple-leaf viburnum, but there were some unlobed leaves on this year's flush of new growth.  There were definitely some 3-lobed leaves on the plant attached to the flowers in the photo.  That leans me to Viburnum acerifolium.  Maple-leaf viburnum is supposed to be the only one with 3-lobed leaves.  According to the Manual of The Vascular Flora of the Carolinas, "leaves 3-lobed, rarely unlobed".

After the response to this post, I was scratching my head wondering if I had inadvertantly photographed an arrowwood viburnum while thinking that it was a maple-leaf viburnum.

This particular plant is just trying to play games with us  pull_smiley;D.  There are always supposed to do just what the book say, right  :P   smiley_contract_point no_no

Maybe this is a newly unrecognized hybrid ??? horn_smiley horn_smiley
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 10, 2007, 03:57:36 PM
That wasn't me, I wouldn't cheat by looking in a book. ::) I did catch the culprit in the act though:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14240/mini1.jpg)


Dave
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 10, 2007, 06:45:07 PM
Well now we know that you have a tutor, Dave ;D.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dave Shepard on June 10, 2007, 07:05:54 PM
Who? Michal A Dirr? Becuase The Minicatt isn't much help! ;D


Dave
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2007, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: WDH on June 09, 2007, 04:38:03 PM
I took the pic thinking it was a maple-leaf viburnum, but there were some unlobed leaves on this year's flush of new growth.  There were definitely some 3-lobed leaves on the plant attached to the flowers in the photo.

So there were 3-lobed leaves on the plant, but you only showed us pics of the unlobed leaves? smiley_furious  That's almost as sneaky as showing only the terminal leaflet of a hickory leaf!  smiley_policeman smiley_smash ban_smiley :D :D :D

You're probably right, though...just an atypical Viburnum acerifolium!
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 11, 2007, 01:22:15 PM
In my defense, it was the inflourescense that I was trying to show ::).  I was planning to show the pic with the 3-lobed leaves in the background as the next clue.  The unlobed leaves did not bother me at the time because I didn't know any better.  Know I know that they confuse the situation.  The good thing is that I learned something new ;D.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: tcsmpsi on June 11, 2007, 02:11:21 PM
Taking into consideration where you were at, WDH, it might help to recognize that snakes, plants...and humans, take on genetic foundations which the books haven't caught up to.   ;)

Certain liberties have tendency to be taken full advantage of.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 11, 2007, 05:12:43 PM
You said it Tcsmpsi, I didn't ;D (although I would have if I had thought of it first :D).
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2007, 05:54:38 PM
On a related note, I found some chalk maples this weekend that disagreed with the convergent tip theory that I've been peddling to my students for the last three years ::).  The majority of the leaves on the plants looked like they should, but there were a few dissenters in the group to keep me on my toes.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: WDH on June 11, 2007, 07:30:54 PM
One again proves the theory that, most of the time, there is no one sure-fire magic characteristic that is alway 100% certain in ID'ing a plant.  It is better to look at several characteristics and surround the plant than to bore in on only one thing  ;).
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: SwampDonkey on June 11, 2007, 08:20:44 PM
If you want to test your patience on leaf shape, explain to your students the general shape of rattlesnake root Prenanthes spp.  ;D That must have one of the most variable shaped leaf a plant can come up with.  8) :D

But, generally it's sagitate.  Sometimes lobed (2-6), sometimes not. Sometimes coursely serrate, sometimes not. ;D I find them mostly in alder thickets in organic soil.
Title: Re: A Flowering Plant That You Can ID
Post by: Dodgy Loner on June 11, 2007, 10:31:01 PM
Quote from: WDH on June 11, 2007, 07:30:54 PM
One again proves the theory that, most of the time, there is no one sure-fire magic characteristic that is alway 100% certain in ID'ing a plant.  It is better to look at several characteristics and surround the plant than to bore in on only one thing  ;).

Well said.  That's the most important message that I've been trying to get across for the last 3 years. :)