I'm going to do this thread a little at a time because I have a lot of photos and videos for it.
While clearing the area where our driveway is going in in the U.P., I came across a White Birch tree that after examining a bit, made me realize that I didn't know enough about cutting down trees and this one could kill me. First it was dead. Dead enough that a good deal of the branches were out of it other then the biggest ones in the top. Second it was in a state of decay, probably rotten in the trunk. Third, it had a wicked lean to it and was pretty fair sized and leaning with its fork towards some nice Balsam fir that I wanted to leave for aesthetics. I came back to that tree a half dozen times and finally says, "Self, don't even try it" Thats when I called Kevin. I told him about the tree and that I thought we could take some photos and video for the Forum of us getting it down safely. He simply asked, "What time's Breakfast?" :D
Well, last Sunday Kevin showed up at the cabin just in time for omelets made from the eggs laid by free range chickens at "Whispering Pines Farms". Thats scsmith42's place. Scott brought some up to us when he picked up his drag saw. :) They was some good omelets! Thanks Scott! We also had toast with homemade blueberry jam. MMMM.
After Breakfast I jumped on the bike and Kevin followed in his truck down to our property.
Here is the Tree.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_1.jpg)
Here is Kevin and his truck full of gear. :) Kevin said before we started. "This aint logging" Its Tree Surgery" :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_2.jpg)
More to come...
Tammy and I took one of the pigroast tables up and 4 GREEN chairs and put under some cedars so we would have a place to sit and relax on occasion while we were working. Here is a shot of that with Tammy and Kevin and part of the gear.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_3.jpg)
One of the first jobs kevin said was to get a line in the tree. This was for two reasons. THe first was to use it to give the tree some shakes to see if there were some widow makers in it. If you watch the video that follows the photos in this post, you will see there certainly were! Deadly.
This is a photo of Kevin and his Big Shot Line Launcher. It made short order of getting a line in the tree. One try and Kevin got it right where he wanted it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_4.jpg)
Here is the video of the launch and then one of shaking the tree. The shaking of the tree dramatically shows what can be up there.
Launching the line
http://www.youtube.com/v/snNk21cWTX4
Now the shaking.
http://www.youtube.com/v/il1yUfFmoV0
Jeff
Thanks for the pics and video.
Sure confirms what my GOL (game of logging) instructor said about dead white birch..He warned us how dangerous they can be, as they just disintegrate and come crashing down all around the feller.
Appreciate the confirmation.. :) :) and another chance to see Kevin at work...maybe that sling shot can kill a bear or deer. ::) ::) ;D ;D
Here are a couple more photos where Kevin is rigging the rope he pulls into the tree with the line shot up with the super shot. The rope is actully what does the shaking, and will also be used to secure the tree to the tree to a fancy-dancy capstan winch rigged just for attaching to trees. Kevin will have to tell about that and who makes it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_5.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_6.jpg)
Got lots more to come. This tree was a problem the whole way. It will show us even when you think things are right, then might not me. I'll explain more as we go. :)
The next thing we needed to do is see how tall this tree was so we could determine what would be a safe distance to have the capstan which attached. Kevin showed Tammy and I how to use this little handy dandy gauge. I'm glad I had the camera. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_7.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_8.jpg)
O.K., this is how this works. Its really really simple. I dew a diagram onTammy's photo showing what you are siting in on. If the tree is in the gauge such as in the diagram, you would be staning right where the top should reach. If the tree extends above or below those invisible lines, you are still to close and within the trees reach.
We moved back considerably from the point where the top of the tree could reach. Its unpredictable what may go flying as the tree comes down. As some one was going to be on the winch in the direction of the proposed fall, they needed to be more then a safe distance beyond.
This is the winch we used. Pretty cool tool. It straps very securely to the tree then has two speed winching capabilities.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_12.jpg)
Making sure the winch aint going anywhere!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_10.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_11.jpg)
i sure could use a gauge like that 8)
stump_jumper I'll have to find out where Kevin gets them. As simple as they were I could forsee some Forestry Forum versions being produced and distributed some how. ;D
The next step is where Kevin teaches Tammy and I about "gunning" a tree using "Gunning sticks"
Basically what you do is place the "legs" of the "A" figure so they are about in one third the diameter of the tree, at the same time leveling the legs to each other, and "aiming" the"point" of the "A" in the direction at which you want the tree to fall. You can then make a couple dots of paint on the tree right at the tips of the "legs". These two points will be the corners of your Notch. Since this tree is leaning sooo far the opposite way, kevin will be making an open face notch. He explains the process to us in the video below the two photos. The photo quality is low as I had to rip them from the video. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_18.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_19.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sqi6OaPVcOk
More to come tomorrow. It is tomorrow. :D More to come later. :)
Wait yall are gona pull from lower on the tree right? Like in that crotch..........right? That top looks kind of crispy dont it and you gota pull all the weight. What am i worried about yall have all the tools and experance and i dont even know how that kind tree acts when its standing dead.
Wow, mighty nice of Kevin to stop by don't ya think? ;) Now I got this.............never mind. ;D
Looks like a lot of nice tools coming off that tail gate. Did the customs ask a few questions? ;D
Nice show folks with the pics and videos. Everyone can learn something and at the very least enjoy the little adventure. :) Took me three clicks on the refresh button to get all the pics loaded. ;) That gadget Kevin and Tammy used looks like a simple form of range finder. The angle from the eye looking along both top and bottom edges looks like 60 °, so an equilateral triangle. In that case, stand way back. ;D I wonder if you can assume that since your closer to the ground than you are at the mid point of the tree height. Maybe it's a 30°,60°,90° triangle. Then, no sweat.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_rangefinder2.jpg)
If it's 60°, then D < C :o yikes_smiley run away
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_rangefinder1.jpg)
If it's 30°, then B>C your safe. smiley_curtain_peek smiley_thumbsup
Is It Safe!?! (http://www.klondikekonsulting.com/sounds/SD_Is_it_safe.wma) ;D
Getting in Gear.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_17.jpg)
A safe starting method
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_16.jpg)
The saw seems to be warmed up and ready
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_20.jpg)
Its time to start!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_21.jpg)
Cutting an open face notch.
Here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/v/Z-UxJnZ_BWw
Here is the finished notch. Please excuse my camera angle. Kevins notch was quite level, the photo gives the illusion of it being high on one side.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_22.jpg)
In the video you will hear Kevin say "wood looks good". That to was an illusion. It was good where we could see and to that point.
Click on the link at the bottom of my last post Jeff, for a kick. ;D Can you remember the movie?
It don't sound familiar unless its from "the birds" but I dont think so. :)
It looks quite open but thats only where the tree stood. It was quite thick between where Tammy was with the winch and Kevin and the tree, thick enough where they could not see each other at all. Our plan was for me to be positioned where I could see to video Kevin and Tammy could see me. As Kevin cut, he would give me the sign to winch, which was a circular motion with the hand. I would then give Tammy the same signal. We only winched while the sign was being made.
If this tree was anywhere else but in the bush, Kevin might have actually done more prep work. In a residential setting or where there were structures or such, there would have been some side lines installed for added insurance in case something went wrong. They would have to be positioned just so in relation to height and length in case added control was need for the felling. For our tree, we chose not to use the additional lines. You will see why we would have wanted them if this tree was anywhere else.
Marathon Man, with Dustin Hoffman, Laurence Olivier, and Roy Scheider. ;)
We need a couple more posts on here so additional photos end up on page two to releave a little pressure on page one dontcha think?
I'm goona run up town as this is the last weekend of the Harrison flea market. I wanted to see if they any any 5 dollar machetes. :)
i'll bite. How about a little more info on the gunning sticks?
Well I'll see if I can help ya out.
click
I'm curious about the gunning sticks too. I noticed a non-sprayed stick out the side, is there a perpendicular aiming line on this? close up photo?
sawdust
Jeff, this is an interesting string - thanks for sharing. I'm glad that y'all enjoyed the eggs!
Scott
Do you have any idea what is causing the tops of your Ash to be bad?
Stew
First attempt to post from my cell . Please excuse my punnctuation . Stew I think its from broken aspen and birch tops taking them out as thxey fall
We get some kind of blight in our black ash. Some branch tips will die off from it. Seems to hit any sized tree. Sometimes kills the whole tree, sometimes no ill effects.
Who had the ash trouble? Jeff? In wetlands it could be flooding to. I lost a whole stand to beaver activity. ::)
Black ash over my way starts to shed leaves about now. A lot sooner than any other tree species. I just mowed the lawn friday and already there was a lot of leave liter on top of the fresh mowed grass. Starts from the top down. ::)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Ash_Leaf_Fall-001.jpg)
Leaf fall on the fresh cut grass.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Ash_Leaf_Fall-002.jpg)
black ash beginning to thin out (leaves dropping), but still not bad looking.
Will post another pic next weekend. ;D
SD, I looked forward on some of Jeff's videos on You Tube and he mentioned the tops of his Ash were bad in one of the videos.
Stew
> i sure could use a gauge like that
Want mine, free? I can put it in an envelope and mail it to you. I couldn't use it properly with my glasses and it was not accurate enough for the urban tree work I do. I still have it around here somewhere ...
Forestry Applications ? in GA sells them.
Starting the Back Cut
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_23.jpg)
Kevin motions to start taking line in on the winch
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_24.jpg)
After alternate cutting and drawing the rope tight, Once he gets to where he feels the tree is ready to come back over, Kevin retreats to a safer location and then continues to instruct on the winching.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_25.jpg)
Video Clip
http://www.youtube.com/v/tXtKQ5PjoT4
You drop the video camera, Jeff, or did the tree get you? :D
Talk about a cliffhanger! :D
No updates in almost three hours, I think they all got squashed.
:D
Sorry, I had some chores to do. Let me regroup and see where I am. :D
He can't get squarshed!!! We NEED him, Tammy too.
Well, if you watched that last video clip, you will see that the tree did not do what we intended it to do. Look at this photo. You can see that the hinge broke on one side and the tree fell to the side where the holding wood was sound, hanging up in several other trees. It's standing almost at the same angle now, only in a different direction. :D I've got a very good photo that will show you exactly why what happened, happened, but I'll wait until the tree is safely on the ground for that. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_26.jpg)
We examine what happened in this clip. In it I say something like "there should be a pretty good video clip of me turning and running the other way" :D
http://www.youtube.com/v/21gUuy2uABU
After sizing up the situation, we decide to change the location of the winch in order to bring the tree on down. Its decided that we don't need any additional lines but could use the one already attached.
Here is Kevin attaching the line to the winch where I had secured it to an aspen almost 180° from the location of the first winch tree.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_27.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_28.jpg)
Quotere should be a pretty good video clip of me turning and running the other way
Just call it 'tactical withdrawal' :D
I had a feeling something like that was going to happen, but due to good planning everyone was a sensible distance away when things came unstuck ;)
Cheers
Ian
Kevin begine to crank the winch to try and pull the tree down.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_29.jpg)
Tree is on its way down.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_30.jpg)
Um... A slight problem yet. The tree is down, almost. A tall slender ash was under the rope as the tree came down creating a spring pole. Another dangerous situation if you are unprepared. Actually its dangerous even if you ARE prepared.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_31.jpg)
Video clip.
http://www.youtube.com/v/v2ih_gNT23I
Were not quite done yet after this one. There is still the matter of the spring poles and widow makers. :)
This is a great series of pictures. It really shows that even with the right tools and experience, some trees can be really difficult, and really dangerous. I coulda used you guys with the oak I had hung up yesterday. ;D
Dave
With the use of the winch, we had all kinds of control. Kevin was able to siimply reverse direction and let rope out releasing the tension created from the ash. In this case it was the rope that created the spring pole, not another tree.
This is our last ideo clip, releasing the rope and seeing the tree settle on down to the ground. Pay no attention to the stuttering fool in the video. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/v/USslWTcGgE0
Kevin approached the area cautiously as things are still falling from the trees
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_32.jpg)
Surveying the tops of the trees to see if there are any more hang ups or widowmakers that might endanger us when we come back into the area.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_33.jpg)
Here is a very good photo showing what caused the tree to topple the wrong way. As you can see on one side of the hinge, there is normal holding wood. You can see the fibers as they should look. On the other side of the hinge, which broke, the wood was rotten. It was'nt rotten in the notch cut, but the rotten wood appeared where we needed to have good holding wood. In the video of the tree being cut, you can hear this wood pop before the tree started coming in my direction. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_34.jpg)
It was decided that all was well and it was safe to let Kevin's dog Jesse and my Dog Ice loose so they could play sniffy butt...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_36.jpg)
While Kevin and Tammy and I relaxed and surveyed our handy work from our table in da woods.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/kevin_birch_35.jpg)
THE END.
Or is it? ;)
This has been a good series, Jeff. Glad it all turned out well. People 14, tree 6. thanks for putting it up for all to see. Good job Tammy, Jeff, Kevin and dog crew. 8)
Norm
Outstanding tutorial ;).
What a FANTASTIC thread, thanks heaps guys!
I've really enjoyed it and learned lots too.
Especially the instructional video on "how to run when a tree comes your way"... :D ;) :o
asy :D
It's the Forestry Forum motto, always expect the unexpected. ;D
That old birch was a little too far gone to hold it's wood at the hinge.
One side of it just popped out of the stump like a cork and the little holding wood that was on the other side just pulled it over sideways which was in hindsight probably a good thing to demonstrate how things can go wrong when you think you have done everything right.
The only way to keep control of a tree like that is to set up a hold line that prevents the tree from falling any where but the intended lay.
Jeffs camera is like another appendage of his body and mind, he did a spectacular job of capturing the story when I wasn't even aware he had the camera running.
Well!! Y'all did a Dang good job.
I'm impressed with the offer of a helping hand.
If anybody is wondering, I believe the winch is a GRCS. It is built using a capstan sailing winch.
Very handy from what I have seen for doing tight removals.
That's right, it's a Harken two speed, self tailing, sailing winch which has been adapted to be used in tree work by an arborist by the name of Greg Good.
It can be used as a winch to raise or as a brake to lower big wood.
The gunning sticks are home made.
The side stick just supports the two folding top sticks so a level can be rested on top of them.
It's unique for setting up the corners of a notch which is critical when accuracy is needed.
I have not used line nor winches to fell trees and that was a good explanation of how it's done.
That makes me think of a couple of questions. If you did not have the line and winch, how would you have felled that tree? Also, knowing the problem that occured, what would you have done differently to fell that tree?
Gary;
We could have just felled it in the direction it was leaning.
It worked out better in this case because it really shows how important the holding wood in the hinge is and also showing that pulling the tree with a rope doesn't mean it's always going to go where you want it to.
Driving wedges in on both sides as the tree progresses ahead would also help in preventing the tree from falling sideways but there's a huge risk in standing under a tree and driving wedges into a tree that's this far gone.
There's just too much risk that a limb could be jarred out of the top and land on your head.
You really don't want to be near a tree that's this bad as it's going over.
If those dead branches hit anything up above as the tree is going over then someone at the bottom might be wearing them.
The only safe way to prevent this from falling sideways is to place a holding line on it.
If you were to just fall the tree in the direction of lean because you did not have a rope and capstain; how would you dislodge the widow makers before hand?
Any clear shots (pics) of the capstan winch? ..or did I miss them along the way?
I'm wondering (hindsight) if one has the winch and the rope "shooter" available, that just pulling the top dead limbs off, and possibly just pulling the dead tree over wouldn't be the safest. Avoid getting under it with a chainsaw altogether. If a good pull doesn't do it, then make a chainsaw open-face notch, retreat and pull again. Just speculation.
The method was a good education. thanks
One, it's all part of the complete felling package.
A rope and throw weight aren't that expensive.
I would have to suggest not cutting the tree with a chainsaw if you couldn't dislodge the loose stuff.
Been,
You can buy a continuous rope puller (less expensive) and use a mechanical advantge when required.
Leaving too much wood in the cut is going to create a lot of stress in your bull line and winch.
If you do a google search on GRCS (good rigging and control system) you should find some information on it.
Hi Kevin,
In reply #45 you mentioned using a holding line to ensure the tree would fall in the intended direction.
I can see how a line from the side would help get the tree moving in the right direction (or keep it from going the wrong one) -- but once the tree starts going, wouldn't you have to release the line to prevent it from pulling the tree to the side the line is on? If so, how would you do that?
Thanks to you and Jeff for this thread!
Bill
Bill;
There are two methods that can be used, I'm just on my way out the door but I'll describe them later today.
That was fascinating! :o My favorite part is the running away and heavy breathing. My other favorite thing was the look on my secretary's face when she heard a chain saw running in my office. :D
Well Done tutorial !! A good review for all tree fallers. I'm sure Jeff will have more such paper birch to practice on. ;)
The first method is setting a rope in the top of the tree, it can be set at the same time the pull rope is being set using the same throw line.
You stand well off to the side and anchor a carabiner, figure eight or similar rope braking method and use the rope as a tether to hold tight or allow the holding rope to run.
In this picture the figure eight is on the left or a simple but effective Munter hitch attached to a carabiner on the right can be used to act as a rope brake.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/rope%20brake.PNG)
Thanks Jeff and Kevin, this thread has been very informative, the great pictures really help. I sell climbing equipment and am quite new to it. I finally know what the figure 8 is used for. 8)
The second method is using a hold line that is secure and follows the tree to the lay.
You measure the length of line from it's anchor point to where it's attached to the tree.
Then measure the height above the hinge where the line is fixed to the tree.
You take these two measurements and where they intersect on the ground is where the tree will fall.
Three things to remember, the slack should be removed from the rope,there can't be any trees in the way blocking the free fall of the rope and the holding rope must be in line with the hinge.
The rope can't be fore or aft of the hinge.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/hold%20line2.PNG)
Don't stand on the side of the rope in which the tree is falling. :)
Nice Nice Nice 8)
Thanks for all the effort in making this an educational event. Plenty of dead White Birch with the drought in the UP and WI northwoods makes this a potentially life saving education for many people.
Me like to hook the ole Farmi on and give them a good shaking. ;D Dem dead Birch give me a chill, which is my gut instinct on staying alive ;) ;)
I got several of dem darn things hanging out over my sawmill. This thread reminds me I should take them out before they take me out with those water logged limbs 40' up that fall without warning :o
Thanks again,
Max
Kevin, thanks for the tip. As usual you are spot on with the advice. I ordered a throw line, weight, line and storage bags for both yesterday. That big shot looks like fun but for now I am going to press my old recurve bow into service and see what I can do with that.
I have a number of trees that have been blown into adjacent trees with root balls still attached. Any advice you could give on bringing these down safely would be much appreciated.
You can get by with throwing the weight by hand also, the problem comes in when there's a lot of brush on the ground then it becomes difficult to swing the line .
By flaking the line into a plastic pail it will keep it from getting tangled in the brush on the ground.
With about three feet of line you can get a decent swing and get up about sixty to seventy feet depending on the weight of the bag.
The weight for the big shot being used here was 10oz. , 12oz. makes a good weight to throw by hand.
The method I use is to tie a slip knot leaving about two to three feet to the bag.
You hold and swing the line by the knot.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/slip%20knot.PNG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/throw%20line.PNG)
I would suggest using an 8 to secure the line to the weight.