I have started seeing these leaves on the ground. I do not know what tree they are from.
Anyone know?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3471-cropped.JPG)
Looks like Mulberry to me.
The image produces dim memories from the recesses of my brain, but DanGed if I can pull it out. Veins don't look right for mulberry
basswood
It looks to be the right size and color for basswood. Basswood leaves are about the first to fall in huge quantities after the first good frost around here.
I first looked here: http://www.fw.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=88
Then I flipped this leaf over and took a close look at the veins. It is a dead ringer for the leaf shown on the link above.
The range map from Virginia Tech shows a basswood variant that ranges into north Georgia. Perhaps this leaf is from one of them.
Never knew we had basswood in this area. Now I'll have to search for the tree. With the winds we have had lately it could be far from where I found the leaf.
If you find the tree, get a twig. There is a way to be 100% sure it is basswood from the bud on the twig. The buds are inequilateral. The buds sit halfway offset to one side of the leaf scar rather than sit evenly above the leaf scar. If you see it, you will know what I am talking about.
A pic of the bark would also be nice. Basswood bark is pretty distinctive. Also, where the trunk starts to get a little smooth a good ways up the stem, you often see distinctive bumps on the bark.
I took a walk this morning and think I found this tree, but I'm not absolutely certain.
At first glance I thought this tree was a yellow poplar because of its form. It is about 14" dbh, arrow straight, ~70' tall, and has a very high crown (that has dropped most of its leaves already). When I took a closer look I realized the bark was not that of a yellow poplar.
I decided this had to be the right tree by process of elimination. I could easily identify everything else within a 50' radius.
WDH, I don't think I'm gonna be able to get up there get a twig. :D
Here are some pictures. Do these help nail down the identification?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3477-cropped-1.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3477-cropped-2.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3480-cropped.JPG)
Sure does. It's not mulberry. ;D
That looks like a yellow poplar to me. The bark can vary quite a bit on them. I have seen plenty with bark like that.
LL,
That bark is definitely 100% yellow poplar. It cannot be your mystery tree. You have to keep looking ;D.
Well DanG. >:( >:(
I guess the form of the tree should have been the strongest clue. ::)
Although this bark may look like yellow poplar, it is kinda different than most of the YP in the immediate area.
I can tell you this much: I am not finding any of the variable leaf shapes that red mulberry has. All of the leaves look like the one in the first picture.
BTW, the bright yellow leaves in the skyward facing picture are from a magnificent mockernut hickory that is a few feet away from the primary tree pictured. You can see its upper trunk in the picture. While it is tricky to get any relative perspective from the photo, the hickory is at least 25' taller and a good bit larger in diameter.
I will try again tomorrow. :-\
This one is getting on my nerves. >:(
Those flat ridges on the YP are a dead give-away.
That background mockernut has beautiful color.
Ok, look at the bark pictures on this page: http://www.dof.virginia.gov/trees/basswood.shtml
Is there any possible chance at all that my tree pictures above are of basswood?
I don't think so. But I have been wrong before ::). I really think that your bark pics are YP. Is there a preponderance of the leaves in the original pic in that general area? Or, do you see the flat-cut-off-truncated leaves of yellow poplar in the area?
There are plenty or YP in the area to be sure. It is a dominant hardwood in my immediate area.
Here is another bark picture that gives me pause (click on the small image): http://www.uwgb.edu/biodiversity/herbarium/trees/tilame01.htm
I'm going to go out in the morning with my camera and zoom in as best I can on the remaining leaves up in the crown of this tree. If the leaf at the beginning of this thread did not come from this tree then I'll be stumped. Everything else in the immediate area is easy to identify - and does not have leaves that look anything like this. :(
Well, after looking at those bark pics, I think you could be right. I am used to seeing darker bark on basswood, with narrower ridges, but I guess I have mostly seen older trees, based on the description in those articles. On the other hand, yellow poplar bark usually doesn't get that rough until the tree is real big. I would expect to see smaller ridges on a 14" tree.
Ok, I went out and found it this morning. I had to widen my search a little bit.
The previously pictured tree is in fact a yellow poplar. I should have known better than to question Danny. However, the bark is unusual when compared to other YP in this area.
I'll try to get pictures up later today (gotta run to town with the wife right now).
I always thought yellow poplar = tulip poplar.
If so, those bark pics don't look like any tulip poplar I've ever seen.
Not sure,
Greg
Yellow poplar and tulip poplar are both common names for the same tree. The bark looks pretty typical to me, but maybe that is a Georgia perspective.
To me, basswood has bark ridges that look like the bark just split or cracked. It is unusual and distinctive, at least the ones around here. That inequilateral bud is a smoking gun, however.
QuoteThat inequilateral bud is a smoking gun, however.
??? ??? On the basswood leaf or the TP bark?
Ok, here are the pictures of the culprit.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3487-cropped.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3489-cropped.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3490-cropped.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3491-cropped.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15374/PDRM3494-cropped.JPG)
This is a large tree. I estimate the dbh to be at least 36", the height to be at least 80', and the crown spread to be at least 50'. Fortunately, there were some low hanging limbs that still had leaves on them. This is definitely the tree that produced the leaf in the first picture. It is over in the neighbor's front yard.
The last picture that shows the entire tree is a little deceiving. There is a severe slope between the tree and the road - about a 10' drop between the road and the tree.
So, do these pictures confirm the identification of this tree as basswood?
Metalspinner,
If you look at a basswood twig, the buds that sit above the leaf petiole are fat and they sit halfway off to the side. That is what is meant by the term inequilateral. They are squenched off to the side ;D.
I need to go to my woods and get a twig for a pic. I only have a few basswood trees on my place, and they are not all that easy to get to. This is a good reason to take Miss Scarlet to the woods ;).
Quote from: Lanier_Lurker on November 19, 2007, 12:00:36 AM
So, do these pictures confirm the identification of this tree as basswood?
Oh yes!
I don't know if you see the same thing that I do, but the bark looks like it split to form the ridges versus the prominently raised ridges that you see in yellow poplar. You can see that in the 1st pic of the basswood tree.
There are what looks like holes in the bark, and that too is typical. If you look way up the stem where the bark is beginning to get smooth, you may see the bumps that I mentioned previously.
Nice pics, LL. That is one fine basswood tree.
Well Danny, I hate to argue with such a well respected forester as yourself, but if you look closer at some of those lower leaves you will see that that is a English Ivy tree :D :D :D
No, that is an American Linden. Get it right! :)
DanG, Bro. Noble. That is the biggest English Ivy Tree that I have ever seen ;D.
I'm glad ya kept lookin tilia found the right one :D :D :D :-X
Yup, looks like a basswood.
Not saying you should do harm to the tree, but that bark will come off in long strips and was used for rope making.
Also, basswood tends to have those stump suckers a lot.
T. americana
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_AB-flowers.jpg)
Flower and distinctive bract.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Basswood-buds.jpg)
buds
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_basswood-twig.jpg)
twig
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_basswood-leaf.jpg)
leaf
In Swamp's twig pic, look at the third bud down from the top of the twig. See how the bud is referenced to the side of the leaf scar? They sit catywompus to the leaf scar ;D.
Jon12345......... :D.
Those pictures confirm that what I sawed up last month was, in fact, basswood. Same bark, with the little holes. See my "I thought it was ash..." thread in sawmilling. Catywompus, that is a great word, is that anything like being "kitty corner to"? :D
Dave
"Kitty corner to", say more ???.
Yes to basswood. Good pictures for its ID.
It took some cogitating, some recolecting,(back to high school geometry), and even a little pondering, but I finally found the word I was looking for. If something is kitty-corner to some other thing, then it is adjacent to it. I don't know who came up with kitty, or sometimes catty, cornet, it is a little weird, I guess. Catywompus is certainly foreign to my ears.
Dave
I always have heard kitty-corner (and used it) to mean diagonally across an intersection of two streets. Works for me.
Cattywampus meaning 'crooked', out of sorts. Nothing to do with a direction, but works good for the basswood buds. :) :)
Yes, catty or kitty corner = opposite corner, not adjacent.
Catty-wompus or katty-wampus usually means something different - depending on the dialect you speak. In my dialect it is a generic term for off-center, inequal, unequal, incongruent, distorted, half upside-down, tilted, skewed, unbalanced, unhinged, or just "not right". ;D :D
Yep, LL, you nailed it ;D. Just like a Basswood bud :).
You fellers and your unbridled word games. ;D
How did ya come up with that one? ;)
come up with that one?? That one been around lots of generations. Yep passed on from Pappy to Pappy to Pappy.....
Probably came from up your way unless it might be a language spoken by my ancestors. You know, the ones that the king sent over here to keep their jails from becoming overloaded. A lot of us down here are a bad bunch. No telling what we'll say. :D :D We'll shoot danged near anything too. ;D
My Grandmother used 'em both (kitty-corner and cattywampus), and she came from New Hampshire in the early 1900's
SD leads a sheltered life... ;D ;D Good thing he has the forum..... :)
kitty-cornered, catty-cornered or cater-cornered, yes hear it all the time and it's even in the dictionary. But, cattywampus or derivatives there-of, ain't heard of it. :)
I,ve heard derrivatives of cattywumpus, but I can't say them on here. :-X
Heard a West VA gal use the term "wobberjawed". Never heard it before. She meant something out of line, crooked, twisted, warped. She was referring to a cattle guard on a farm lane, it had become wobberjawed over the years. ???
I've heard a similar term years ago, "Whoppyjawed", used in the same way.
Lopjawed is a term used up here just as whopperjawed is used south of us ;) ;D
I here a lot of 'hog-wash' and 'horse-pucky' lately to. ;D ;)
From MSN encarta:
catawampus
cat·a·wam·pus [ kàttə wómpəss ]
adjective
Definition:
diagonal: in a diagonal position or arrangement
adverb
Definition:
diagonally: diagonally
[Mid-19th century. Origin ?]
I liked Danny's definition better :)
I have heard this term used a lot in my shorter-than-some-of-your's lifetime. Fairly common in hoosierland, which is in the midwest, which is where all the news anchors come to practice their accent so they can be understood by the masses. :D
Still, as hard as they try, they give themselves away by not being able to prounounce Kissimmee, Eau Gallie, Weewahitchka, Loxahatchee, Apalachicola, Valdosta, Vidalia or Vienna. There is plenty around here to trip up a tourister new person. :D
Kinda like Arkansas.
It's R-Can-Saw not R-Kansas.
Gotta use a little drawl do it. ;D
Tom, never had a problem with any of those. Can you pronounce Terre Haute? clue: it ain't terry hotie :D
Yes it is. ;D
Yep, I think so Terra Hout like the hoe for digging potatoes.
Still, I'd go look up how to pronounce Vienna, Georgia before I accepted a Television announcing job in the area. :D :D
My little sister lived in Vienna for a couple of years. And I played football and baseball against them when I was in high school. I never knew any other pronunciation. :D
And as for "ARRRR - kansas", I think Les Miles found out what those folks thought of him on Friday night (after he spoke it that way during an interview). :D
If only Kentucky could have gotten the job done Saturday........... :( :( :( :( :'( :'(
Quote from: Tom on November 26, 2007, 08:49:34 PM
Still, I'd go look up how to pronounce Vienna, Georgia before I accepted a Television announcing job in the area. :D :D
Like the sausages ;D.
Quote from: OneWithWood on November 26, 2007, 01:15:53 PM
From MSN encarta:
catawampus
cat·a·wam·pus [ kàttə wómpəss ]
adjective
Definition:
diagonal: in a diagonal position or arrangement
adverb
Definition:
diagonally: diagonally
[Mid-19th century. Origin ?]
I liked Danny's definition better :)
Robert,
You are quite the Scholar to shed such light on this subject ;D.
Cat-a-wam-pus............I really like that :D.
Kinda like got-a-whomp'n :D