The Forestry Forum

I have a hard time with the counter sink drill bits for wood screws.

I find the little set screw strips or the tapered drill bit breaks off in hard woods, always when your hands are full trying to hold a set up with glue or the drill battery goes dead.  It' the most frustrating thing.

I have a pricey Dewalt set of tapered counter sink bits with the quick release......all the bits are broken

I go out and buy one at a time for the size screw I am using...but they don't last!

Has anyone got a fool proof way around this problem? :-\ :'(

Robert

Probably not a good one, but I pre-drill before using the countersink bit.  With hardwoods, there is just too much wood binding up in there, and it won't compress as with softwoods. At least that has been my experience. I usually send in a 1/8" bit first. Then the countersink bit, and withdraw it several times to clean off the frass (wood).

beenthere

Does that been you use three drills or change the bits three times, from a 1/8" to countersink and then to a bit to drill in the screw.

That's what I mean.....It's a lot of switching around while holding a piece of wet glued wood, especially if you can"t clamp the piece to something first. >:(

Robert

I don't suppose you have a pin nailer or a finish nailer do you? If you can put a screw in it you should be able to put a couple of pins in it to hold it till you drill your holes. I try to drill and test fit before glue up if I can. I also have two battery drills, one for the bit and one for the driver.

LeeB

Yes I have all that.......and I should get better set up with all the tools close at hand.

My problem is partly that there are two locations for all that and I tend to purchase "cheep" tools.
I have a barn at the back with all the wood, larger power tools, mill, tractors, etc. and a work shop in the attached garage with all the small "cheep" tools.  The frustration is the air is back at the barn, the drills ( one with the battery weak) at the garage.........you see there this is going! :-\

I think you have hit my problem on the head! :-*    Get organized first!

Do you have a station dedicated to gluing up, with all that at your hand?

What about those counter sink bits that strip at that little set screw...do you have something better?

Robert

I don't generally use a countersink bit because I generally plug any screw holes if I am building furniture.  I use a 3/8 inch brad point bit to drill the plug hole, then use a 1/8' bit to drill for the screw.

I too, use two drills.  It is slower than one drill with the fancy reversing attachment that has a bit on one end and the screw driver bit on the other.  It works OK if you are only countersinking, but if you are plugging, the countersink bits do not cut a clean enough plug hole, in my opinion.

So, I gave up on the countersink bits with the countersink and the drill bit and the little set screw all -in-one.  If I am countersinking, I use a high quality dedicated countersink bit to countersink, then a separate drill with the drill bit to drill the screw hole.

Buy better counter sink bits. ;D

SwampDonkey
That's my question.......what are "better bits"  I thought the Dewalt set were a good set but they failed miserably, I buy individual ones at the big box store and they fail too.....they don't cut well and the set screw fails. 

What is a good countersink bit?

Robert

I use this countersink bit and it has worked very well. It also lasts a long time.

http://vansantent.com/Drilling/irwin_countersink_bit.htm (http://vansantent.com/Drilling/irwin_countersink_bit.htm)

I forget the brand I bought, it may have been from Lee Valley. I've had them a long time. That soft metal stuff was probably made in China. I mean the metal in the counter sink. I have broken the odd bit, not because it was soft, but because it was hard and I might have bent the drill to one side by mistake. I think most bits I buy are from Canadian Tire or Sears (their brand), not sure but I think most are USA or Canada made.

Thanks for the link Radar, now to get it from Iowa to Ontario, Canada :P

Robert

I don't have a seperate glue up station and until just recently i used a couple sawhorses and a door for a work bench. I use the counter sink bit with a set screw thing. I think the last ones I bought were Ryobi. I touch them up with a diamond stone before I use the to keep them sharp. That way they don't get hot and weaken the bit causing it to snap. Doesn't mean I don't get stupid and bend one till it breals now and again. :D

SwampDonkey

First it starts with the counter sink comming loose at the set screw (and of course it's stuck in the wood) then and after you pry it out with pliers you try to tighten the set screw and the little allen key strips and nicks your fingers with the darn thing, all the while the glue is setting up on your project >:( :-\ ......you know where this is going, don't you >:( :-X and after a few mutters to yourself you go and retrieve the thing in the corner of the shop in a hurry because the glue is still setting :-X now with time of the essence you make another attempt at it only to have the battery on your drill die a slow death ;D with half the screws stripped and the other half stuck half way out of the wood you reach for the screw driver and do it the old fashion way, by hand 8) and another successful glue up! 8) 8)

Robert

Cheap tools come with a price  ;)

You need a step-by-step plan of procedure;
measure, cut, fit, recut, refit, predrill & countersink(carefully), refit, glue up and screw.

A hurry-up job is not a fun job, woodworking should be enjoyable. Check you blood pressure before you start and after you finish - if it hasn't gone down you aren't doing the job right  :D  :D

Like WDH, I gave up on the countersink method, too.  I now use the step drill but that came with my pocket screw jig.  It drills the pilot and a 3/8"countersink at once, then the pocket screws self drill the pilot in the second board.  A plug if neccessary fills the counter sink hole.  Another nice feature is the stop on the drill bit.  I have never broken one of those screws, either. :)

Sprucegun ;)

You got that right.........it's not the nice, well planned projects.....it's the hurry ups! and the cheap attitude of the woodworker

Robert :-*

When I use larger screws I will bore out the counter sink with a bigger bit.  ;D I always have to fit my pieces together before I 'commit' with the glue bottle. ;)

I try to avoid a counter sink if I can conceal things. There are just some projects that you can't avoid using it. I will usually use matched wood dowels over the holes and try to line up the wood grain's orientation.  ::)

metalspinner 8)
I really like your idea to use a step drill bit, where can I find good ones for #8, #10 & #12 screws?

Robert ???

The one I use came with my pocket hole jig.  But replacements can probably be had at Lowe's.  This will drill a 3/8" counterbore and an 1/8"(?) hole.  Need to check that.   I believe I've seen other step drills somewhere, but need to search....

 ;D Robert.....heres a countersink that won't come loose. ;D

Link (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=40127&cat=1,180,42240,42281&ap=1)

Pricey...... but they work. ;D

If you want to brake the bank  they even have the stepdrill ;D    Link (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=46272&cat=1,180,42311,46275)

You have to drill the screw /counter hole in the outer board before any glue is appied .  you have to pull the drill bit out many times while drilling and clean chips  Junk bits will work if you do that.    Then and only then  do you glue the parts and the only thing you need then would be the screw driver.

Kreg makes a good pocket hole bit  as does Irwin. 

A short length of pipe over the bit will keep the stop from slipping.

Thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions.......Don, the pipe idea is neat and I will try it ASAP

Lewee, I'm on the Lee Valey site now and will order a set soon....Thanks 8)

Robert

I use separate bits for each operation. I do not like changing bits between each operation so I purchased several cheap drill motors. A different drill or countersink, each in its own drill motor. A small cart with a power strip corals them all. I like using a good drill motor and have a couple but for a lot of work, I would rather have a bit in a cheap drill motor than have to change bits many times. 

pineNut ;)

Right about dill motors, I am always looking for inexpensive electric drills.

I have a Ryobi clutch dive drill, it's electric but has a hand tighten chuck (like a cordless has) so I don't need a chuck key to secure the drill bits to it and the slip clutch prevents driving the screws too far into the wood.  It's the one I look for the most!

Robert

I have had very good results with this system....

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32309&cat=1,180,42240

Thanks IMERC 8)
That's a nice looking and very complete set, looks like all the screw sizes are covered.

That is the second Lee Valley set posted, I guess they have the corner on bits down.

Thanks again for the post
;)
Robert

out of the bazillion different ones I've tried...
they work the best...

Quote from: Robert Long on November 23, 2007, 10:33:57 AM
SwampDonkey
That's my question.......what are "better bits"  I thought the Dewalt set were a good set but they failed miserably, I buy individual ones at the big box store and they fail too.....they don't cut well and the set screw fails. 

What is a good countersink bit?

Robert

what ya find at the BB's can leave a lot to be desired...

i like the countersinks that i got from W.L. Fuller.  I use a type "K" countersink as i can use it to counterbore a deep hole.  just my 2 cents

Charles

Thanks for the link Radar, now to get it from Iowa to Ontario, Canada


If you need some help with this, we are not too far from Pella.

I've tried vermont american, craftsman, hitachi, kobalt.  I hate em all.  I havent done much fine woodworking lately that requires a good clean countersink, but next time I do, I'll probably just go the extra mile and drill a good countersink hole with a 3/8" bit and then the pilot hole.  But now I like using cut nails more than anything ;D  I don't like to work with real hard woods though either, mostly sassafras poplar and some walnut ocassionaly.  So far the countersink set I liked the most came from MLCS woodworking catalog.  It was 18 bucks IIRC and Id still use them if I could find all of em.  DOH!

you guys may have already covered this and i missed it, but what is the proper name and a link to the tool that is a jig for drilling into things at an angle. it is used in furniture building i think. anyone know what i am talking about.........cause i sure do not. :D

drill guide...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=42322&cat=1,180,42311,42321&ap=1

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,180&p=42311

thanks i found it in there. i also have a new wish book coming.

careful....
the tools in that leevally catalog may get you estranged...

get her the other catlogs and she may get so wrapped in them she may not notice what yur up to...

not to worry man, i am already as you say "estranged"
i see it as no one but me to please and no one but me to spend my money.
should be a great next half life. ;D

in that case ...
would you like a very extensive list of decent tool suppliers????

here a few to get ya started...

   

http://www.leevalley.com/

http://www.primetools.com/metabo-power-tools-1.html

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/

http://www.woodcraft.com/

http://directory.ceramlinks.com/shopping/home-improvement/hardware/woodworking-tools/

http://www.norfield.com/toolsnsupplies.htm

http://www.theleadedge.com/

http://www.remodelonline.com/directories/construction/woodworking/tools.html

http://www.tools-plus.com/

http://www.garrettwade.com/

http://www.woodworkerswarehouse.com/

http://www.trend-lines.com/

http://toolseeker.com/

http://www.reidtool.com/

http://www.rockler.com/

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/ok_default.html

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/

http://www.pinske-edge.com/

http://www.douglastool.com/

http://www.buildscape.com/

http://www.amanatool.com/

http://www.toolcenter.com/

http://www.senco.com/isanta/ner272.pdf

http://www.tupent.com/stainless/

http://www.just-software.com/titles/23353.asp

http://www.fastenersources.com/quality_fset.html

http://www.medfordtools.com/

http://www.toolsupermarket.com/DEFAULTFrame-1.htm

http://www.toolsteal.com//index.php3?cat__id=0

http://www.oldwoodies.com/links-woodworking.htm

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/

http://www.thomasregister.com/

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/

http://www.houseoftool.com/HandTools/TapeApplicator01.html

http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/main.htm?E+coastest

http://delivery.keyspanenergy.com/cust_serv/customer_ma/clock_thermostat_program.cfm

http://www.warnertool.com/

http://www.klingspor.com/

http://www.vandykes.com/

http://www.mikestools.com/Gross_Stabil_Pages/gross_stabil_parallel_clamps.asp

http://www.jointech.com/woodworkingcat.htm

http://www.stabila.com/products.asp

http://www.toolladies.com/vendor.html

http://www.grizzlyimports.com/

http://www.atoolforyou.com/stabila/torpedo.html

http://grip-tite.com/

http://www.electrictool.com/

http://www.kleintools.com/index.html

http://www.toolsupermarket.com/

http://www.toolhawk.com/tools/Vacuums_Dust_Collectors_Filters_index.cfm

http://www.mytoolstore.com/makita/mak09-02.html

http://www.owwm.com/Craftsman/Craftsman.asp

http://www.internationaltool.com/

http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.html

http://www.toolnut.com/

http://www.shelterinstitute.com/toolsupplies.htm

http://www.rocketanchor.com/

http://www.gpistore.com/subcatmfgprod.asp?0=249&1=268&2=-1

http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/main.htm?E+coastest

http://www.diydata.com/projects/plans/tool_plans.htm

http://www.toolking.com/index.asp

http://www.contractorstools.com/seatarmored.html

http://www.marathontool.com/

http://store.yahoo.com/ekimco/noname4.html

http://www.supplierpipeline.com/products.asp

http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/serviceNet/logon.asp

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/228013/ref%3Dtab%5Fmi%5Fhi%5F8/104-2697748-3400703

http://www.lara.com/toolfinders-sample.htm

http://www.ridgid.com/

http://www.toolking.com/dewalt/view.asp?ID=699

http://www.tooltimer.com/

http://junior.apk.net/%7Ejbarta/octagon_layout/

http://www.mscdirect.com/

http://www.toolseeker.com/

http://www.joneakes.com/ca/hs/html/catalogue.html

http://www.lfsinc.com/atlasgloves/BreathablePalmFitAtlasWorkGloves.htm#300AtlasFitBlack

http://www.govliquidation.com/locations/east.html

http://bestconstructiontools.com/

http://www.a-richard.ca/index.html

http://www.tools-plus.com/

http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/

http://www.ordertree.com/

http://www.toolfetch.com/

http://www.nhtooloutlet.com/

http://www.lenoxsaw.com/

http://bosch.cpotools.com/

http://www.boschtools.com/tools/

http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_27_40027_-1_362_362

http://stores.tundratools.com/StoreFront.bok

http://www.cpoworkshop.com/

http://www.cpomakita.com/

http://www.cporotarytools.com/