Hello,
Myself and a couple friends run a small firewood business and we're trying to find multiple sources of log-lengths to split, stack and sell. We currently purchase them in 7-8 "cord" truck loads from local landscaping companies for varying amounts but it's not consistent wood and it's not always available. We're located in northeast Massachusetts and we're hoping to find some more sources of log-lengths. Any help on where to find sources would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the Forum
Tell us about your firewood business, in general.
We like pics of equipment and such...as you can tell by some of the firewood threads already on this site.
Are you into any logging yourselves, or strictly depending on purchasing firewood quality logs?
And, we like pics (you can set up your own gallery and add pics sized right, by going to the Help button, or "Behind the Forum" board)
Well, this will be our third year. The first year we sold around 9 cords. We had a TW-1 Splitter and a pickup truck. This year(2007) we sold around 30 cords. We upgraded at the end of the season to a TW-5 splitter and we purchased a dump trailer to do deliveries with(MUCH easier!!) :) Our goal for this year is 50-60 cords. Our main issue is space, we're currently using land that one of my partners owns but we are having trouble finding the space to store and wood to season while leaving space for us to work. This year(before it snowed) we split about 6 cords and tried a new stacking method(to fit more wood) putting our stacks about six feet tall just to have it topple over three times so it appears this will not work. We're learning as we go...one issue too is mold which we lost a cord to last year.
We depend on outside wood, like I said we have a couple landscaping companies we can call for wood but it seems expensive and it usually comes when they can't get rid of another more convenient way.
I only have a couple photos of our wood from last year....
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16860/firewood1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16860/firewood2.jpg)
Hello
I am in Hudson NH just over the border north of lowell Mass and east of Nashua NH send me a PM as I get lots of firewood during the year.
James
Boy do you do a neat job of stacking that wood. I am so tired of fire wood that I just kind of throw it in a stack. But you are pretty new to the game and your neatness will wear off. Hopefully, cause you make the rest of us firewood cutters look sloppy.
Stonebroke
Quote from: stonebroke on January 06, 2008, 08:45:53 AM
Boy do you do a neat job of stacking that wood. I am so tired of fire wood that I just kind of throw it in a stack. But you are pretty new to the game and your neatness will wear off. Hopefully, cause you make the rest of us firewood cutters look sloppy.
Stonebroke
Yeah, we stack it that neat because it gives us more room. IF we pile it we lose a lot and it has a tendency to get moldy on the bottom. We still need to figure out the best method for this, stacking is a huge pain in the butt.
Burnwood,
Have you checked with your DNR. Ours has a website to look up wood related businesses. It is quite large too.
Anyone have tips on stacking? We currently stack in rows(as you can see above) but it's so time consuming. We do this because it allows for the wood to try and it allows us to fix the most wood in our small storage area. We thought about just doing a pile but we're worried about mold and the bottom layer not drying. Also, piling would probably take up 30-40% more room than stacking in rows. Any thoughts, suggestions?
Why I'm at it...anyone have any tips on where to lease land? We would like to rent some land around us to store the wood, this will allow us to produce more and continue to grow the business. As it stands we can't afford to purchase land around us so we're thinking of leasing to start. Should we just visit some local farms and see what they would offer us?
Definetly nice stacks. I have been debating on doing the same thing. Do you move it again all by hand? The reason I wanted to do it like that, was to be able to drive the tractor over and pick it up and carry it close to the house or load it onto a trailer or back of the truck. I wanted to stack it away from the house for the summer and then have it close to the house for winter. I found a place that will give me all the pallets I want, and they are 4x6' ones.
I think you have the system down pretty good. I usually find some dead limbs or trees and lay them down, then stack the rows on top of that, but I only do 1 row. Stacking like what you have limits the air to the wood, nothing is getting at the center, maybe thats adding to your mold problem. Plus no sunshine can get to it.
I now stack the firewood on pallets, right off the splitter. After a year or two of drying, stage the pallets of wood near the house where they are easy to get to with the forks on the 3pt, and easily move them into the garage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Woodsplitting.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Firewood4300.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/PalletWooda.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Pallet_smallwooda.JPG)
What amazes us is we see HUGE(40+ ft) piles of firewood all the time and it makes us wonder how they don't get rot and moldy bottoms, could it be because it's on pavement? We currently stack on pallets but the issue we noticed was leaves were getting under and it's hard to get them out therefor the whole "air underneath" idea is kind of out the window. I was thinking of maybe putting the pallets up no cindar blocks to give it move room underneath and to keep it away from the dirt and bugs. If we went this route we might try building small sides and then just trying to pile it instead of stacking. It would save us a huge amount of time....I think we need a conveyor belt too...loading a cord into a truck by hand sure stinks!
Quote from: burnwood on January 07, 2008, 01:35:46 PM
..................... We currently stack on pallets but the issue we noticed was leaves were getting under and it's hard to get them out therefor the whole "air underneath" idea is kind of out the window. I was thinking of maybe putting the pallets up no cindar blocks to give it move room underneath and to keep it away from the dirt and bugs. ...................loading a cord into a truck by hand sure stinks!
Maybe stack the wood on a pallet, then set the pallet on another pallet for more air space. Then lift the pallets onto the truck with pallet forks and either send the pallet with the wood, or dump the wood off the pallet into the truck.
Currently, I'm mentally trying to come up with some handy covers to keep rain/snow off the wood. Thinking of a pallet with a rubber roofing material stapled to it. Have advantage of weight to keep it from blowing off, and maybe some overhang to better cover the wood below. At one time was considering making "umbrellas" using two ash saplings lashed to four corners of a tarp, spring loaded to get some slope for rain run-off. Thought they would blow away. :)
I have a friend who stacks in single rows so air gets all around, he sells after one season.
burnwood where are you, I ahve both firewood long and land close to mass
Do you burn wood ??? If so mold doesn't hurt wood a bit just makes it look less desirable. Keep the moldy stuff for yourself 8) The whole key to the firewood business is minimizing labor as much as possible. The more you handle it the less $$$$ you're making and the more Motrin you'll need to buy ;) ;D I don't stack a stick. It's wasted effort :) I let it season in the log which takes about two years for 8" maple. Smaller pieces will season in a year. I process it out of the pile into the dump truck or trailer for immediate delivery. I prefer to sell green wood for people to season themselves ;) ;D but do sell seasoned wood during the winter
Quote from: woodmills1 on January 07, 2008, 05:29:17 PM
I have a friend who stacks in single rows so air gets all around, he sells after one season.
burnwood where are you, I ahve both firewood long and land close to mass
Groveland Ma, Right next to Haverhill Ma...or about 20 minutes to Plaistow or Salem NH. Do you purchase log-lenghts from someone or get them youself?
Quote from: Corley5 on January 07, 2008, 07:20:46 PM
Do you burn wood ??? If so mold doesn't hurt wood a bit just makes it look less desirable. Keep the moldy stuff for yourself 8) The whole key to the firewood business is minimizing labor as much as possible. The more you handle it the less $$$$ you're making and the more Motrin you'll need to buy ;) ;D I don't stack a stick. It's wasted effort :) I let it season in the log which takes about two years for 8" maple. Smaller pieces will season in a year. I process it out of the pile into the dump truck or trailer for immediate delivery. I prefer to sell green wood for people to season themselves ;) ;D but do sell seasoned wood during the winter
One of the guys I work with burns wood so he takes it...it's still lost profit though. We can only leave it in log form for so long, it takes up a lot of space so we can maybe fit 16-20 cords in log form where can can fit 50-60 cut and split. There is also the fact we're working with a TW-5 so we can only process maybe a cord an hour or so..cutting and delivery would not work when the busy season hits.
What I would do.
Buy a large roll of vapor barrier (UV stab. is nice). Get pallets, stack them two high, but, rotate them 90 degrees on the top layer, better support. Then go along the edge and nail pallets standing up around three sides. Then a roll of cheap screening around the three sides to prevent animals and leaves. Then toss it into the bin. Cover the top with a tarp. This is far less labor intensive then stacking and will dry in a year.
The best thing is to have a cement pad above ground level, open on all sides with a black metal roof. Just toss it in, load up the dump trailer with a Bobcat in winter.
There use to be a huge firewood place on the right hand side of Rt 95/128 ? going towards NH. Been 5 years since I was there. Literally piles 60 feet high. I don't think he covered his stacks ... :D
Quote from: rebocardo on January 08, 2008, 02:33:12 AM
What I would do.
Buy a large roll of vapor barrier (UV stab. is nice). Get pallets, stack them two high, but, rotate them 90 degrees on the top layer, better support. Then go along the edge and nail pallets standing up around three sides. Then a roll of cheap screening around the three sides to prevent animals and leaves. Then toss it into the bin. Cover the top with a tarp. This is far less labor intensive then stacking and will dry in a year.
The best thing is to have a cement pad above ground level, open on all sides with a black metal roof. Just toss it in, load up the dump trailer with a Bobcat in winter.
There use to be a huge firewood place on the right hand side of Rt 95/128 ? going towards NH. Been 5 years since I was there. Literally piles 60 feet high. I don't think he covered his stacks ... :D
We don't have any machine to move pallets...we're small. :) It would be nice to have some of this equipment because I'm sure it would be easier but we need solutions for what we own currently(nothing)
I did fire wood for yrs, mine was cut+split 4'. We put two logs down and stacked the split wood on them. Cris cross the ends and stacked till we couldn't throw it up then used to truck to stand on. piles were 10'to14'high and 30'long.When we got an order we have a sawbuck 2'x2'x4' made out of 4x4pine with the floor off the ground 3' so I didn't have to bend over to much to pick up pieces. Had stakes set so I could cut the wood to 16" or 24" for odd sizes we cut the 4'ers at 36"instead to do 18" ect:
Knowing you don't have the equipment,how about buying it all done in bulk and just do the delivering? PM me if this sounds interesting,I have two sources selling in bulk.
I have many jobs arround your area. I'll be happy to supply you with logs.
Climber
603.508.1060
Victor Paliy
Happy Trees LLC
Pelham NH
I sent you guys both emails, I tried the PM but I couldn't get it to work. ???
didn't see an e-mail
woodmills1@aol.com
if you want to increase sales go bulk, quit wasting your time stacking... I just split and through into large heap. 30 to 50 cord in a heap doesn't take alot of space.
if you stack 30 4x4x8 cords you would need an area about 70 x 70... push that up with a loader or stack with an elevator you can fit more than 50 cord in that same space.
Continue cutting and spliting whatever you have been able to get a hold of and grow....
I move about thirty cord of bulk wood a year.....
Quote from: bull on January 10, 2008, 10:09:04 PM
if you want to increase sales go bulk, quit wasting your time stacking... I just split and through into large heap. 30 to 50 cord in a heap doesn't take alot of space.
if you stack 30 4x4x8 cords you would need an area about 70 x 70... push that up with a loader or stack with an elevator you can fit more than 50 cord in that same space.
Continue cutting and spliting whatever you have been able to get a hold of and grow....
I move about thirty cord of bulk wood a year.....
The issue we have is the bottom pieces not drying. As it is some of our wood gets mold and it's stacked, we can't imagine what would happen if we have a huge base on the ground and a huge pile on top.
There is a firewood operation at the concentration yard where i sell logs. They have a huge blower with about 6 large frlexible pipes coming off of it that they run into the bottem of their firewood pile. :D
My wood is right on the ground and I don't have much of a problem, remember the bottom ends up on the top of the outbound load and will more than likley dry before the customer uses them.
There is a reasonable grade where my wood is piled " gravel or stone" would also help,also plenty of sun....
Have been doing this for 30 years many of the same customer without complaints.
As you can see Im only 42 and the math shows I started selling wood at 12 which is correct, 30 years is not an exageration!
Wood rots and there will be mold, good sign that the wood is drying... when the wood drys so will the mold, you need to get your wood out of the shade, and into the sun. Give it a tan and the mold will go away..
A customer who complains is a customer no longer !!! >:(
Yes all those yard trees are slowing the drying process. Get it into the sun and there will be less problems. Wood is wood and no matter how you stack it, it gets mold. It's part of the decay process my friend. I stack my own personal firewood, I don't worry about mold. If you don't want mold then you have to invest in kilns, storage and fungicides. ;D
I'll bet the mold is on the black oak too :D .I had that problem with the stacks in the shade. I told customers mushrooms is proof its drying ;D and don't stack it in your garage if you don't like mold.
Quote from: burnwood on January 07, 2008, 01:35:46 PM
What amazes us is we see HUGE(40+ ft) piles of firewood all the time and it makes us wonder how they don't get rot and moldy bottoms, could it be because it's on pavement? We currently stack on pallets but the issue we noticed was leaves were getting under and it's hard to get them out therefor the whole "air underneath" idea is kind of out the window. I was thinking of maybe putting the pallets up no cindar blocks to give it move room underneath and to keep it away from the dirt and bugs. If we went this route we might try building small sides and then just trying to pile it instead of stacking. It would save us a huge amount of time....I think we need a conveyor belt too...loading a cord into a truck by hand sure stinks!
There is a company near me which produces 100's of cords of firewood a year. The huge piles are made from the conveyors form the processors they use and then pushed together with a big front end loader. The method they use is the logs are stacked neatly in a long row and let set 6 to 8 months then processed and then they sit in the big pile until sold. This didn't work out too well for them.
They used the front end loader to fill the truck so everybody got wood from the bottom of the pile which was mostly moldly and wet. Only the wood on the outer layer of the pile was nice and dry. To combat this problem they installed several drying kilns. Now they debark every log before the processor and the chunks get piled in baskets before going into the kiln. This adds a little more work and cost but the finished product is more consistant, about 20% moisture content, and clean without the bark and dirt from the ground. I think they can dry about 30 cords per week.
You need sun and wind to dry firewood. I tried stacking wood in a round pile once. The pile held over 4 cord in a ten foot diameter circleand was over ten feet high. The bottom was held off the ground by cement blocks spaced out so the air could come up through the bottom of the pile. The outer circle of wood was horizontaly placed and the inner part of the pile had the wood piled on end which created a chimney effect. It worked quite well except it was time consuming to pile and required working off a ladder and tractor bucket when it got above what you can reach from the ground.
I think a large carport type structure placed so the wind could blow through it with the wood piled on pallets might work best.
Randy
My experience buying logs for firewood was this. I bought the 1st batch to get started and went at it. I was making money, paying the fuel bills, repair bills etc and was putting money in the bank. Then I ran out of wood and to get more it took most of the money in the checking account. I started all over again and did this several times that winter. I did make money, the bills got paid and we had no shortage of food but there was no fortune made ;) That was just me as a sole proprietor. The addition of a couple partners would make the pickings pretty slim.
I know a lot of loggers that have become so frustrated with firewood over the years that they don't want anything to do with it.
Well, we started with 9 cords and purchased a TW-1 Splitter.
The next year we sold 35ish and traded the TW-1 for a TW-5 and purchased a dump trailer.
We have 8 cords in log lengths ready for this year already and all of our equipment(trailer, splitter) paid off. This year we're shooting for 60ish and hoping to roll that into a nice truck. After we have the basic equipment we will continue to roll each years 'profits' into better/more equipment. Since we all have full time jobs we don't need the money and since we only do this on the weekends now it's not that much work, plus it keeps us busy.
We've talked about expanding but we're not sure yet, it's pretty cool to think we already have a customer base after only selling for two years, we've already have around 20 cords sold for this year and we have not even cut it yet. ;D Like I said our biggest problem is space, in MA land is so expensive, it would be ideal to find a local farm to lease us land but we don't know how to get started asking that question. ???
Ah, the weekend beer money operators I've been hearing about. ;D
I am a farmer west of albany NY. I have a friend who does firewood part time. I also have 200 acres of woods that need to be thinned. I am going to give him the wood but the problem is that I need insurance and nobody wants to insure a part timer. I also have plenty of space. when you approach a farmer be nice to him and if he lets you do anything treat his land and property better than if it were your own. Most farmers are nice guys basically we sure aren't in it for the money. We understand that wood is a crop and needs to be harvested. We just don't want to get shafted. Also A mans word is his bond so if you promise to do something make sure you do it. Most deals in agriculture are handshake, Cus if you have to have a contract you can't trust the guy, so why are you dealing with him to start with. Just make it worthwhile for the farmer. This doesn't always mean money. You might want to cut back his hedgerows( a never ending job) or help him in the fields when he is real busy. Sometimes that is worth more than all the money in the world.
Stonebroke