Are the grinders worth the cost considering the price of a file and a new chain? I 've never used a grinder, only a file. How much does the grinder take off as compared to filing? Is a grinder any faster? What are the pro's and cons?
i dont know much but i do know from my experience having my repair man sharpen with the grinder does a much better and lasts longer then filing . As for amount taken off it seems to be alittle more but not much the only chain of mine i saw alot taken off was one that got beaten to death by nails that i didnt know were in the tree i was cutting up .
As for speed my service man has been doing it that long he makes quick work with the grinder once he has it set for my chain. Hope this helps you like i said i dont know much thats why i let the pro do the sharpening.
Lots of opinions on this. I use both. I file in the field when I did not spend time in the shop grinding chain to take spares. When you have a hundred chains to sharpen you will like become partial to a grinder.
Last month I took down a big Hackberry for my dad on one of his rental properties. I had not sharpened any loops for the saw I wanted to use on this monster and had to file it halfway through the job. I was glad I could hand file. I am not what a real logger would consider good but I can get passable results.
It's good to be able to file, and very nice to be able to grind in the shop.
Lee, you should try one of these filing guides that Husqvarna sells.
http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/products_product_specific_accessories_details.aspx?pid=5205
It looks simple, but it's the best 10 buck I ever spent - makes it very easy to file. A blade sharpened with one of these will last much longer than a blade sharpened on a grinder, and there's no chance you'll overheat the teeth and ruin the temper. I usually touch up after every other tank of gas, and it only takes a couple strokes on each tooth. A grinder is nice for speed, but for the price, versatility and performance, these little guides can't be beat. Even if you do end up getting a grinder, it's great to have one when you're in the field.
I have no problem filing freehand. As I said, I have never used a grinder, only a file. I suppose if I had a lot of chains to do I might have gotten a grinder.
I use the guide that Dodgy Loner mentioned, and I like it real well. By hand, without a guide, is what I did until about a year ago. Now I use the roller guide (although the pic at that link is not a good one, IMO).
here is mine..and think it is the same thing in the link.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/PferdFileJig_ff.JPG)
If I want a lot of tooth ground off, I take the chain to someone with a grinder... ;D ;D But am sure, not all with a grinder take a lot off.. :)
I also used to file freehand with no problems, but the great thing about the roller guide is that it prevents the file from filing downward, so you can direct all of the force laterally, towards the part of the tooth that you actually want to sharpen. I would never be without it again. Before I learned how to file, I took my chains to my local Stihl dealer to have them sharpened. I didn't realized until I started sharpening myself that I was supposed to be able to get more than four or five sharpenings out of a chain ::). If you take your chains to someone with a grinder, you have to be sure you know what they're doing.
I've got CBN wheels on my grinder and don't plan to hand file again unless it's an absolute necessity ;) Good wheels are the key to a good sharpening job with a grinder.
I bought one of the Husky roller file guides, and I have to say I went back to using the Oregon plate type file guide. It has angle lines scribed on it, and I think it's faster. It also keeps me from totally screwing up the hook angle, or undercutting the tooth.
I also have one of the Oregon file jigs (it's an older one made out of metal before they went to all the those plastic parts) that I use every so often to even everything out and restore a consistent angle. I file everything at 30/10/30.
I tried a round stone grinder once and it ate the stone up so quick that I went back to the file. That said, my brother has a pro model chain grinder that I'm going to be borrowing to grind a ripping chain. He says the sharpening shops here in NJ just don't have much call for, or experience, sharpening ripping chains, and he had a couple of chains for his 100" mill that were ruined by a sharpening shop. So he bought a grinder, because it takes a long time to touch up 20 feet of saw chain with a file...
Quote from: beenthere on May 05, 2008, 06:19:03 PM
I use the guide that Dodgy Loner mentioned, and I like it real well. By hand, without a guide, is what I did until about a year ago. Now I use the roller guide (although the pic at that link is not a good one, IMO).
here is mine..and think it is the same think in the link.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/PferdFileJig_ff.JPG)
If I want a lot of tooth ground off, I take the chain to someone with a grinder... ;D ;D But am sure, not all with a grinder take a lot off.. :)
I also like those combo guides, mostly for the excellent raker guide part of it, and when I need to file off some, not only sharpen.
Final sharpening is free-hand.
It's properly called a chain,not a blade .
I suppose those roller giudes are just fine but some chain sharpens at a 10 degree up angle .
A good filer can do just as well as a grinder,it just takes practice at it .Unless the chain has been dulled and banged up from hitting the dirt,rocks etc. it takes about 5 minutes to dress one out in the woods .[20 inch ]
The little Dremel type rotary grinders have their place.The are especially handy to repair a chain that has been rocked out .
Now as far as how many times can you resharpen a chain,a lot .They will cut and cut good as long as the entire cutting tooth is intact . Now a lot of dealers may only get about 6 -6 sharpenings when using a grinder .Keep in mind those folks sell chain also .
Never made much sense to me to pay a dealer 4 bucks to grind a chain when you can buy a new loop for around 12 . After about 3 -4 grindings you have the price of the chain invested . Then again I suppose an old dog like me after 40 some odd years of fooling with those noisey things might get a little set in ones ways,or so they say . ;D
I am with Beenthere and Dodgy Loner. Husky file guides are real easy to use. Have been using them for 4 years and pleased with the results. Does not mean you should not learn to sharpen freehand to fully understand the dynamics of the chain tooth ;)
If new to sharpening I suggest the learning to sharpen with a file before getting a "dremel" type grinder. IMO unless you sharpen for other people you do not need a wheel type bench grinder either. Point is to sharpen often in the field.
max
Quote from: Lurcherman on May 05, 2008, 11:56:03 PM
I bought one of the Husky roller file guides, and I have to say I went back to using the Oregon plate type file guide. It has angle lines scribed on it, and I think it's faster. It also keeps me from totally screwing up the hook angle, or undercutting the tooth.
I use Stihl chains, and they have the proper angle already scribed onto the tooth. I find it very helpful, and I never considered that other brands might not have this feature.
I've been using an Efco grinder for 10+ years, I use the lightest pass on a tooth that will get them all sharp. Some chains of mine I've done 50 times. Taking a heavy cut when grinding just wastes teeth, also turns them all blue. A lot like bandmill blades, lighter is better!
i have and use both , files in the field and the grinder at the shop , both have their place but would be hard to justify the price tag for home use .
i got lucky and found my techomec used but like new for 60.00$$ :)
Use both. I grind when a hand hits rocks with the chain. Since I have 10 or so chains for each saw and bar there are plenty in stock. I can put on a chain and touch it up when dull and wear it out most of the time and never take it off the saw. Hands can buck logs and go through 4 chains a days sometimes. Since they are hitting rocks it would take for ever to file them down. Just take them to the grinder and fix them.
Millers in town grinds them. They are pretty heavy when they do it so 4 or 5 trips is all a chain will take. They grind of Thursdays so you can drop off on Wednesday and pick up on Friday.
was cleaning a cottage lot on a steep incline yesterday , filed the chain while fueling up and during breaks , all was good till the hidden rocks popped out from under the moss :( now i have three chains for the grinder :).
Back in 1976 I bought a stihl 031 and a windsor grinder[many names made in Italy 5" stone] I still have boath and they have paid for themselves many times.When a feller learns to keep the chain out of the dirt a grinder can just kiss the tooth and remove very little.The big advantage for a bench grinder is you take the chain off and metal filings don't get in the bar and chain,also you can clean saw and bar and readjust chain.After grinding I wash and oil chain.I'am a cheap yankee but the best tools are cheaper in the long run.Couple of years ago bought a silvey square chain grinder [price of a good saw]it is pure pleasure to use and will outlast me.I do file sometimes and have no gripe with thems that do.Frank C.
I bought a grinder. It is made in Italy and it is a Jolly something. I can take off 1/64 inch and the chain is sharp as can be when I am done, and take a lot less time. It was $315 after tax and that was is a lot for my needs. However, I needed to take in 6 loops anyway and that would have been $55 so now I am only out about $260. I cant believe it has been 5 yrs since I have posted on this sight. Later guys.
Grinder only take off enough to get the chain sharp when used right, same as a file. Steve
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.
I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.
So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.
I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.
So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.
Quote from: Skeans1 on March 21, 2021, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.
I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.
So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.
Thank you for the information i should have used maybe the Oregon 410 at around $190 dollars, still it's money spent for a sharping system more then a simple hand filing of our chains.
I am open to looking at other ways to sharpen my chains, i have seen this Timberline sharping jig selling for around $110 dollars still a lot more then what i have in my 2&1 sharpner that has worked pretty well so far but i am guessing not as well as a real shop sharping or using the Oregon sharpner.
This is the really good thing about this forum, lots of people who have used many different sharping systems letting us know what they have found good and bad about them.
For round filing, the 2n1 sharpener works great👍
Quote from: barbender on March 21, 2021, 01:00:19 PM
For round filing, the 2n1 sharpener works great👍
Right now it's about all i can afford i am still waiting for the $1,400 everyone is already getting.
Use a stump vice or some other method for holding the bar firm, and it works great.
Quote from: barbender on March 21, 2021, 02:33:40 PM
Use a stump vice or some other method for holding the bar firm, and it works great.
At first i used my vice but after sticking my stump vice into a board, i am now using it on my small bench, it gives me all the support i need and is simple to pick it up installed on bar and turn it around for sharping the other side of the chain.
I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it. That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59686/IMG_0294.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1616357492)
Quote from: Greenhighlander on March 21, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it. That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59686/IMG_0294.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1616357492)
Could you tell me just what it is.
File for me, a file doesn't make much noise doesn't blow dust over everything in the shed, and I can relax with just my saw and my file.
And the chain gets way sharper than any grinder I've tested - and I can use all of every cutter.
And I enjoy filing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/18763/aDSCN3705.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1489871245)
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Quote from: Skeans1 on March 21, 2021, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 09:53:21 AM
Reading in another chainsaw forum this morning where someone paid $1,300+tax and shipping for a Simington 451 C Square Chise grinder with stand.
I read in this forum where a member was paying $4 bucks at his dealer for a machine sharpening, my dealer wanted $10 but after talking with him he said it's $10 if we have to remove chain from the saw you take it off i will do it for $4.
So since i don't have hundreds of chains to deal with and new chains run from $15 to $25 for my saws, and just getting into doing some hand filing, and reading what other forum members are posting about their take and results of hand filing think i will have to decide if i can get by with a few hand sharping and paying $4 dollars for my dealer to do it.
Remember a Simington or a Silvey are normally for square chisel chain that's different grinder completely from a round chisel chain grinder.
Thank you for the information i should have used maybe the Oregon 410 at around $190 dollars, still it's money spent for a sharping system more then a simple hand filing of our chains.
I am open to looking at other ways to sharpen my chains, i have seen this Timberline sharping jig selling for around $110 dollars still a lot more then what i have in my 2&1 sharpner that has worked pretty well so far but i am guessing not as well as a real shop sharping or using the Oregon sharpner.
This is the really good thing about this forum, lots of people who have used many different sharping systems letting us know what they have found good and bad about them.
What sort of cutters are on your chains? This will be the biggest factor in what kind of grinder you're looking into. Another factor is how many chains you're doing and what sort of quality you want from the grind.
Myself I have a Silvey Pro Sharp, a Tecomec Super Jolly, an Oregon 511A, and a Silvey 500. Each of these grinders fit a purpose for different tasks I'm also very picky on my chains.
After doing a search for the Timberline Carbide Sharping system. the lowest price found is at ACME Tool at $109.99, but what ACME does not tell buyers is they have to buy the size carbide cutter needed at $20 each it's not included.
Reading their reviews many buyers at ACME find this out only after their Timberline machine arrives and they find out they don't get a cutter, then they have to order one and pay the $20 and the shipping, not what i call honest dealing.
If you buy from Timbersharpner.com direct they include one carbide cutter at their $124.95 price.
Another item to keep in mind is with Stihls large 3/8 Pitch Chains, they differ from the industery standard in file sizing needed, they require a 13/64 file so you will need a 13/64 Cutter from Timberline.
My opinion only, the person doing the sharpening determines the quality. A good guy with a file will get a sharper chain than an average guy on a grinder while a good guy on the grinder will do better than the average guy with a file, I like and use a file.
Quote from: axeman2021 on March 21, 2021, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Greenhighlander on March 21, 2021, 04:11:52 PM
I have always been really bad for filing down one side more then the other . I have tried everything I could think of to even it out by hand but for whatever reason I couldn't fix it. That never really mattered doing trail cutting and firewood but I figured it did with milling so I bought one of these and have been really really happy with not only the job it does but how fast it is once I got use to using it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/59686/IMG_0294.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1616357492)
Could you tell me just what it is.
It is a Grandberg G-1012 XT precision grinder and it was worth every penny .
Keep on hand filing. I started with gadgets, and now do all of my filing freehand. You WILL trash a few chains, but that educates you on what NOT to do.
As has been said before, file at every fuel stop. 2-3 quick and light strokes.
I have a cheap version of the Grandberg G-1012 XT. I went to an auto parts store and replaced the clamps with a cigarette lighter plug. My tractor has a cigarette lighter socket that is much more accessible than the battery posts.
Doug in SW IA
Quote from: Corley5 on May 05, 2008, 11:20:51 PM
I've got CBN wheels on my grinder and don't plan to hand file again unless it's an absolute necessity ;) Good wheels are the key to a good sharpening job with a grinder.
I just don't care for hand filing. I bought a buddy a 2in1 about ten years ago for a house warming gift and he loves it and uses it all the time. I have a couple old 308 belsaw sharpener's with CBN wheels on them and that works great for me. When my FIL was still around that guy could free hand file like nobody.
I just bought the Oregon 520, and so far I'm impressed. I've been able to get pretty good at hand filing, but over the life of a chain I do tend to drift on one side, and end up out of balance. The set up of the grinder was really easy. I run mostly skip chains, full chisel. I'm not brave enough to try square chains yet, but after watching how easy @Skeans made it look, I might try one just for grins.
@JJinAK (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=35780)
Setting up square chains can take a while to train your eye for what you're looking for, if you do go this route don't be afraid to ask any questions.
When I worked at Bradford's Saw Service, we ground chains on one of two machines. One st up for chainsaws and one set up for harvester chain or bucksaw chain as we called it. All I can say is William worked the bucksaw chain himself as it was deadly boring and dirty since it was lubed with waste oil. The homeowner / firewood cutter's chains were always a mess, it seemed like they lost a lot of cutter length to even them up. I much preferred a pile of loggers' saws to fix than chain sharpening...
On my own chains I use an old Stihl FG 2, a jig I mount in the vise that uses a chain saw file.
Kind of slow, but so am I! I would like a grinder, but I like I like nice things so that moves me up from entry level,to a Stihl USG or the like. I like the round filed cutters personally.
Quote from: gspren on March 21, 2021, 08:35:44 PM
My opinion only, the person doing the sharpening determines the quality. A good guy with a file will get a sharper chain than an average guy on a grinder while a good guy on the grinder will do better than the average guy with a file, I like and use a file.
They may be out there, but I have yet to find a "good guy with a grinder" who can get better results on round-ground/round-filed chain than a person with a bit of training and practice using a hand file with one of the better guides out there.
I have found guys with grinders who can do better than the average person with just a bare file, but then I've only met a few people who actually get consistently really good results with just a bare round file (i.e. can hand file time-after-time without having to take it back to the grinder every few sharpenings to "true things up", and can get consistently good results in terms of performance and durability.)
I'll grant that I am sure there are a number of you on here who I would add to the list of those getting consistently good results with a bare file if I had a chance to use some of your chains. My own results with just a bare round file are just what I would call "acceptable" - not great. I've not bothered to practice it much, and my eyesight is not what it used to be, so I stick with the guide.
I don't have much experience with square ground/filed chain. I like it for performance and durability, but I enjoy hand-filing, and figure I don't have much hope at getting good at hand filing square chain in the woods.
I have 2 Oregon grinders set up with the CBN wheels. However I also hand file my personal chains in the woods or in my shop. I take off the bare minimum when I grind a chain, so I get many sharpenings out of a chain. My opinion is if you can hand file in the woods it saves time replacing the chain. I can do a touch up every tank in the woods and always have a very sharp chain that throws big chips, never sawdust. But, if I replace chains and later grind them in my shop, I keep using a chain until it is throwing about half chips, and half sawdust. I almost never hit the dirt with my chains and hardly ever find metal either, but, if I do, then it's to the grinder!! I also sharpen chains for all of our volunteer's in our church chainsaw team. All of those chains are sharpened on the grinder. Too many to do by hand. So to me both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.
Quote from: 421Altered on May 23, 2021, 11:59:55 PMI also sharpen chains for all of our volunteer's in our church chainsaw team. All of those chains are sharpened on the grinder. Too many to do by hand. So to me both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.
Much as I prefer hand filing, if I had a pile of chains to do like that on anything approaching a regular basis, I'd use a grinder.
I enjoy the break that comes with hand filing while cutting in the woods. It's a time to enjoy some quiet, and time to take stock of how I am doing. However, sharpening multiple chains in a row is no longer a break, it's a job. Definitely calls for some automation.
BTW - great idea sharpening for your church's chainsaw team. I'm one of the coordinators of our town's "WoodBank" firewood donation program. For safety reasons, we tend to limit the number of folks who do our cutting, and most of those are well-versed in chain sharpening as well. We also tend to keep that separate from our splitting and stacking efforts, where we have a larger crowd from the general community. Maybe I'll arrange for some sharpening services at out next volunteer day.
I also enjoy taking a break from chainsawing in the woods. Drink some water, cool down some, and a little rest doesn't hurt this old body!! Thanks for volunteering your time and saws to cut up firewood for your town's "WoodBank" donation program. That sounds like a good program. Our church is active in wind storm damage cleanup, tornado's, hurricane's, straight line winds, mostly within 100 miles, however sometimes we go further. I've found that volunteer's are among the hardest workers you will find anywhere. Sometimes they do things that I would not even consider doing. When I first joined, after a tornado, they were cutting 18" diameter pine trees into 12" long cylinders, and rolling them about 150 feet to the right of way! Another time, cutting 24" diameter oak into 24" long pieces, putting them onto a hand truck and rolling them to the curb! Man you talk about tough!! Since then, we have a skid steer that does the work!! We can do many more yards much quicker and easier now!!
Sounds like a great group, 421Altered. Our storm response here is not any organized group, but we do have a large contingent of folks who just make the rounds and help people dig out where needed.
People helping other people is what it's all about!