Hello all, trying to save a few bucks and sharpen my chain by hand.Still learning, very frustrating when not done right, but ya'll know that.
Anyway my question ??? is it better to sharpen from the front or the back of the cutter? I hope that makes sense ;D ;D
Tony 8)
I've always sharpened from the back to the front. I find it easier, but I would say that what ever does a good job, is easiest on the file and works consistently well for you is the right way for you.
I know ... not much help eh?
cheers
I'm a "back to the front" filer too. Not smooth when going against the point of the tooth (front to back) ..
Perhaps a better way to put it would be to say to file the teeth from the inside out. I like to use the Oregon file guide, it has angle lines on it for reference, and it keeps me from undercutting the top of the tooth. I think it's faster than using the Husqvarna roller guide, but that works too. And every once in a while, when things look like they are getting a bit too inconsistent, I use a filing jig to true up everything the way it should.
Do you have Gerry Beranek's Fundamentals of General Tree Work? (http://www.atreestory.com) Wide variety of information, and a good chapter on chain filing.
Dave
Always toward the tip from the "inside out". Otherwise you're destroying files.
File guides are a great way to start getting used to angles, especially when the chain has been sharpened inappropriately in pervious events.
Captain
Speaking of files, how long do they typically last? I use one of those file guides, and regularly turn the file in the guide. I never really paid too much attention to how long the files last, but I'm just guessing @ at least 16-20 sharpenings (typically two strokes per tooth, 36 teeth per chain), but it seems that after a little while, the file just doesn't have the "bite" it should. I love using a new file.
So what's the life expectancy of a file ??? (BTW these are the round files....)
I looked on YOU TUBE and loads of videos on chain filing, one fellow was even using a 4 inch grinder on his...
Here is a nice one showing a king size cutter that explains all the angles envolved .. neat.
Some are using all sorts of jigs etc.
After you destroy about 20 chains by learning to file you wont need anything, just sit the saw on a stump, truck tailgate or tractor tire and take a minute to file it up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD88rZ5FF04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD88rZ5FF04)
Filing well by hand takes a long long time to perfect. Even among professionals I've only worked wirh a handfull that were really good at it. Save yourself the trouble and get a filing guide, and a raker gauge. Proper raker height is critcal for a chain that cuts well. I use the carlton fil-o-plate, which is also a filing guide. And they are not expensive. How long does a file last? Depends a lot on how you treat it. Make sure your chain is clean and dry [no chain oil] and you'll get a lot more life out of them. I often make a small cut length ways along the tree to clean the chain just before I file.
I love files. I like to sharpen... almost anything. I file axes, chainsaws, my mill's band and use a stone on knives etc. I doubt I've ever worn out a file. What gets my files is a forgetfulness. I'll leave it on the back of the truck or laying on the stump and condensation or rain will cause it to rust. It doesn't take much rust to destroy those little sharp edges on the file. I started keeping my chainsaw files and pertinent tools in a small ammunition container. That helped a lot, but, condensation would still get the files. I even went so far as to wrap them in an oily rag. That was even better. Still, I would get stupid and leave one out and it would get ruined.
I had a bunch of mill files that were given to me by machinist at the pulp mill. He hated files. I was in seventh heaven and kept them under the truck seat, wrapped in an oily rag. They got legs. Before they did, I found that it was a pretty good place to keep a file as long as I kept the windows rolled up.
Tom is rite. A file will last a very long time. They will dull to a point but will always cut. I will use one of my old files as a finishing file.
Yes, always file from the inside out.
I'm one of the few who file outside to in. Inside to out leaves a burr on the cutter. Yes, it's harder to file into the cutter and possibly the files don't last as long but I get very good results. I use a flat file guide for the chain that doesn't require the 10 degree up/down handle (Stihl chain (and probably others)) and a roller guide on the ones that do (Oregon 95vp and most Husqvarna). That roller guide makes one look like a pro. VERY easy. In fact, as soon as I use up my Stihl chain I'm switching to Oregon so I can use the roller guide for 3/8s chain.
BIGGEST point to be made in hand filing and that is NEVER let the chain get dull. Performance starts to fall off, take the time to file it. I touch mine chain up every day. Patience, take your time, read, read, read (there are tons of posts on filing chain, here and elsewhere), pay attention to detail, and trial and error plays a big part.
Now this is coming from someone who used to say that if my life depended on hand filing a chain, well, just shoot me. I have a MAXX grinder on the work bench that I have not touched in months (since starting to hand file).
Happy filing.
Quote from: ENTS on June 04, 2008, 01:28:46 PM
I use a flat file guide for the chain that doesn't require the 10 degree up/down handle (Stihl chain (and probably others)) and a roller guide on the ones that do (Oregon 95vp and most Husqvarna). That roller guide makes one look like a pro. VERY easy. In fact, as soon as I use up my Stihl chain I'm switching to Oregon so I can use the roller guide for 3/8s chain.
Happy filing.
The 10 degree angle isn't necessary. Just sharpen at your preferred tooth angle and forgetaboutit. ;) You will never notice a difference.
FYI: the 10 degree angle on Stihl was recommended for frozen timber (at one time)
IMHO: Chain compaines like to change filing angles like most people change their shorts (quite often), pick an angle and stick with it.
Ed
Is it important to file the same amount of strokes on each cutter? or if some links take an additional stroke or two is that ok? Never had luck with a file until I got a guide , worth every penny.
Quote from: bck on June 04, 2008, 02:07:02 PM
Is it important to file the same amount of strokes on each cutter? or if some links take an additional stroke or two is that ok? Never had luck with a file until I got a guide , worth every penny.
You are correct, try to keep the amount of strokes the same. If you have to go a couple extra no big deal.
Ed
I always free hand file my brush saw blades. There is an angle marked on the file gage though. I always give each tooth a couple rubs when I refill the gas. Beech and cherry will dull up a blade, I suspect oaks would be the same. I always free hand my chainsaw blades to.
Thanks fellas for all the info.
Speaking of rust. I read one time about a cabinet maker who used to rub chalk on his pattern maker rasps to keep out rust and debris, reckon that would work on chainsaw files? ??? ??? ??? ??? :o :o
Tony 8)
I can not free hand file worth a DANg. I use the Grandberg File & Joint and I file from the outside to inside. It is important to keep your chain tight so that there is no movement of the chain while you are sharpening it. Frequently rotate the file in the guide so the wear is evenly spread over the whole surface of the file. Files are cheap. Once they seem to slow down and when cleaning them doesn't help much just use a new one. Lubricate the sliding bar portion of the guide so you don't prematurely wear out the guide bushings. Wear leather gloves or keep some Band Aids© handy too.
To ENTS's point, the burr on the cutter when filing "inside out" is the chrome plating. The chrome plating is very hard; that is what destroys the file when filing "outside in". The burr disappears in the first few seconds of operation.
Captain
Quote from: Captain on June 05, 2008, 03:50:37 PM
To ENTS's point, the burr on the cutter when filing "inside out" is the chrome plating. The chrome plating is very hard; that is what destroys the file when filing "outside in". The burr disappears in the first few seconds of operation.
Captain
I'll check it out tomorrow. Didn't get a chance to file today, (it's in the 90's and my little shop does not have air (unless you count an open door)). What you're saying is the first cut will strop that burr off and it will be as sharp (sharper) as filing into the tooth. Hope so.
later,
It's not worth the cost or effort for chainsaw files, but for those of you who have some large mill files, auto body files or unusual shapes that you think might have a second life, there's a company called Boggs Tool in California that runs the files through some sort of high-pressure acid-etching process, it will bring an old rusty file back to life. My grandfather had a whole box of really nasty old files, some really odd shapes, a whole bunch of Vixen files that cost $25-30 to buy new, and I sent most of them off, they came back better than new, there were some that they "rejected" but they were still clean and sharp, the rejected ones are files that they can't get completely clean or are otherwise damaged. I've now got a box of old Nicholsen files that would cost me several hundred bucks to buy new, if I could even find half the shapes or styles.
Not trying to be an advertisement for these folks, just a very satisfied customer.
Quote from: ENTS on June 05, 2008, 05:39:11 PM
Quote from: Captain on June 05, 2008, 03:50:37 PM
To ENTS's point, the burr on the cutter when filing "inside out" is the chrome plating. The chrome plating is very hard; that is what destroys the file when filing "outside in". The burr disappears in the first few seconds of operation.
Captain
I'll check it out tomorrow. Didn't get a chance to file today, (it's in the 90's and my little shop does not have air (unless you count an open door)). What you're saying is the first cut will strop that burr off and it will be as sharp (sharper) as filing into the tooth. Hope so.
later,
I filed my two saws inside to out this morning just to check this out. There was a burr on the 3/8, and barely one on the 95vp. Both cut just as well as filing the other way. After three 20" pine (felling and trimming) there was no burr left. So, I guess I can say I
used to be one of the few who filed outside to inside. It certainly is easier and I can see where the files will last longer.