I was told I should get my chainsaw license, what are some advantages of getting it I mean should I fork out $90 for nothing?
This is interesting, I never heard of such a thing in Michigan.
I haven`t heard of that either, could it be just a course in handling a chainsaw?
I live in Ontario Canada and up here you can get a license to operate a chain saw.
What is required to obtain it and what are the advantages of having it? Do you have to take a test and are only those hired that have a license?
Does the government require and regulate it or is it just a nice thing to have?
You have to go to a day long course and at the end you right a test. the government dose require and regulate it . I work for a large construction company and they want me to get mine. But I already use a chainsaw there so I don't know if it would be worth the $90 to go and get it.
I would be surprised that at 16 you would be even eligible to take the course. In Michigan you would not be allowed to work with that sort of equipment until you were 18.
Kevin is from Ontario also. And so is Bill Johnson. He will probably give us the low down on this if he gets on this week.
I just wrote the Ontario Ministry of Labour asking them about legislation regarding private and commercial use of chainsaws in the province of Ontario.
Should have something in a day or two.
It's amazing, the things a Gov. can come up with to help keep the coffers filled. Usually under the pretext of protecting you from yourself.
Amazing- do you have to be licensed to run a weedeater to. how about a cordless drill.. :D
Kevin
Marc might be talking about the training program that most fellers working for industry have to take before they can work in the bush.
I think it goes hand in hand with the skidder operator training.
I don't know if it is a legal requirement, I'll wait to see what MOL sends you
Hi Bill;
I spoke with my boss and he said there is some kind of certification for the commercial use of a saw , some of our guys have been certified but I think it`s primarily for workman compensation.
Here's a little blurb I found on the OFSWA website.
Cutter/Skidder Operator Certification Program
Designed for those persons in the forest industry engaged in logging operations.
According to the Ministry of Labour a logging operation is considered to exist where the principal activity is felling and skidding of trees for industrial and commercial purposes.
For more information check out the website at
www.ofswa.on.ca click on the information tab and scroll down to cut and skid, there are a bunch of frequently asked questions that should put a little light on the subject.
Subject:
RE: Chainsaws
Date:
Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:16:21 -0400
From:
"webohs (MOL)" <webohs@mol.gov.on.ca>
To:
"'kvn.rob@sympatico.ca'" <kvn.rob@sympatico.ca>
There is no licence rrequired to operate a chainsaw under the OHSA in
Ontario. If you are going to be using it in a Logging Operation you are
required to have training and certification of the training as per sections
104 & 105 of the Regulation for Industrial Establishments (below). If you
are using the saw in any other workplace enviroment you are requitred to be
trained in the safe use, handling and maintenance of the equipment as
required by the Act. More information can be found on the web at:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca
104. Every employer who undertakes logging operations shall establish and
maintain, as may be required to enable its workers to comply with section
105,
(a) the training program called "The Cutter Program" established
by the Ministry of Skills Development as program number P750010; and
(b) the training program called "The Skidder Operator Program"
established by the Ministry of Skills Development as program number P750020.
R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 851, s. 104.
105. (1) Every worker employed in a logging operation shall take
the program referred to in section 104 that is most appropriate for the
duties of the worker.
(2) A worker's training under this section shall be completed
within one year after the day the worker becomes employed in a logging
operation. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 851, s. 105.
Murray Baker
Occupational Health and Safety Branch
Ministry of Labour
webohs@mol.gov.on.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: webmin (MOL)
Sent: August 3, 2001 3:01 PM
To: webohs (MOL)
Subject: FW: Chainsaws
-----Original Message-----
From: nssweb8@govonca3.gov.on.ca [mailto:nssweb8@govonca3.gov.on.ca]
Sent: July 29, 2001 12:22 PM
To: webmin@mol.gov.on.ca
Subject: Chainsaws
Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by
() on Sunday, July 29, 2001 at 12:21:29
It is also going into such areas as general employment. A friend of mine had to pay $15 just to fill out an application to go to work for the local county government accounting office. :-/
i live in pa and i havent heard of this at all. i was fifteen when i started running a saw and im sixteen now. i hope i dont have to pay 90 bucks to get a permit to run a saw. really i dont see the piont in it because its a saw. sure they are dangerous but paying 90$ to run a saw when its your job.
Here it's a certification certificate for people using a saw and getting paid for it.
For home owners it's not a requirement.
Obtained my certificate as a "chainsaw & skidder operator" in 96 ;D MOL course required so employer can get Workman's Compensation for employees. Same price then + all the required PPE :o One Day of class room instruction,2 Days of field work ,no written test. Instuctor was a self employed saw filer that ran a small shop in Timmins. I don't think he ran a chainsaw much if at all himself. If you showed up you passed. :o Needless to say I was UNDERWHELMED ::) Bureaucracy at its finest ::)
ps. MOL loop holes ....If self employed with no employees you don't need it., or your job classification doesn't contain the words "chainsaw operator" you don't need a certificate. Now Imagine that :o
Hi Guys,
Sounds like the same thing we have here in NZ. If you are working for a company using chainsaws (or want to get work with one of these co's) then they like you to do the OSH (Occupational Health and Safety) approved chainsaw course. I dont think you get a licence as such, but for Accident levys waged on companies, I think it lowers that cost for them. Like where Im working now, I have the official Forkhoist licence on my drivers licence, but have to have a current OSH approved forkhoist safety licence too, or no one wants to know me! <<<to the strains of ABBA>>> Money, Money, Money.......! ;)
Cheers
Charlie.
Hi ya's
if it lowered the employers ACC rates then the employers should be paying for there workers to get it ..sounds like a desk boys idea to make more paper work .. as long as it's not a staged /steped program IE only you can use 40 cc and 12 inch bar for 6 months then up 72 cc 20 inch bar for another 6 months but no passengers and only during daylight hours ;) and must be overseen by a skilled chainsaw user with at least 10 years full license ;D it's a hard call if it was going to stop you from getting a job than it would be worth it ,if it had no efect on getting a job then maybe it could be part of the crews safety program
unless homeusers have to do the same course it will not lower the accidents that happen
catch ya
JD
i am anti govt controll,on most everything.. but i see homeowners doing some really dangerouse stuff.. i watched the progress of an homeowner felling a tree beside his mobile home.he left it up one nite in a state that looked like a strong wind would take it dn..
his reason i think was that he got tired of working on it that day..
he got lucky ,but he didnt have a clue as to where that tree was gonna fall..now that man didnt have any buisines operating a saw ,if he didnt have any better sense than that..the worst part is now he thinks he knows what hes doing.. next he will be doing his neighbors trees..
of course they got a splitlevel home..
think i ll stop an chat with the neighbor. mabe i can slip a warning into our conversing. otherwise ,its just a matter of time..jmo
ps i dont know none of these people or id get more involved.. just been watching as i drove by..
around here you stay outa folks buisiness,best u can..
but yes id support required training for beginners..
dang i hate to say that.. :(
Sounds like a standard OSHA type training. Basicly BS, but you gotta have. I have a forklift one, airal lift device (bucket truck). I even had some for tow tractors when I was in the military to drag planes around. It was a OSHA req even there if I remember right. (been a while) :) could have been a base req. but I think the card said OSHA.
If you can get one for 90 bucks and it makes you more valuble to your current employer or another employer, get it. You never know what job might be your next. If you have the cert. and the other guy doesnt, you probably will get the job. Same goes with a raise.
I personally would LIKE to go to a REAL felling course. I am not a pro and basicly only manage my woodlot. I fell pretty well, but I have never been taught the right way. It goes down but isnt always pretty :o I look at books and the internet and they are fine, but I have always been a hands on kind of guy. I like to do things right and as safe as I can. I was told that the tree farm program in PA runs some schools but have yet to locate them.
Hi Marc,
I think the official name is "chainsaw operator certificate". I'm a bit surprised you can get it in one day. As I understand it you should take this course if you use a saw occaisionally, the cutter/skidder course is for arborists and loggers.
When I took mine it was about 8 hrs in the classroom taking apart your saw, learning to hand file and learning basic felling theory and then 2 days in the woods practising with supervision. They make you buy all the gear and its the best thing I could do to learn how to saw safely. My partner also took it with me and although she doesn't cut much she can handfile the chain better than me ;D Happiness is when your girl hands you a gassed up sharp saw! 8)
I would take the course even just to brush up on your technique and I know my local townships require any of their guys using a saw to have this certificate. Take it through your local college as well if you have a choice. They should have good instructors.
Ian
When I first started cutting a chainsaw class was unheard of. That was considered on the job training.if you fell into the right crew of guys that knew what they were doing and willing to teach..Great. If you fell into another group that were less skilled and more macho.. Well... If you survived you would have some stories to tell. I think $ 90.00 is a lot cheaper than an emergency room visit. I began with a lot of bad, wrong and down right dangerous information. I was also lucky enough to run into a few experienced and caring people that were willing to enlighten me.
A class and certificate could be useful for people just starting out.Though I doubt it would be of much use to a seasoned veteran. The class needs to have a clear set of minimum standards and be universal so everyone that goes to class has the same general information. The class should be done through a community college and the govt should have little or nothing to do with it. I also do not think the class should be manditory.
It is only a matter of time befor laywers give up in the gun industry and look for something new to litigate..ie justify their existance and bloated saleries. It would be a dark day when a laywer goes to a chainsaw salesman, points to a saw and says, " How could you sell that dangerous and deadly weapon to an unsuspecting consumer? You are negligent and must be held accountable for the injuries and deaths caused by the saws you sold."
I hope this remains science fiction, but when laywers smell a buck they will circle the saw industry.
More knowledge...Less Darwin awards.
Unfortunately, this will or probably already is being discussed for additional revenue purposes and speared by the insurance industries.
Like many of their 'other' recent regulatory commissions. It will be managed to the basic knowledge and will not have the ability to enforce any safe practices. Thus the certificate will soon be a money grab and a manipulator to impose other government and insurance backed certificates for running portable sawmills in which 'goods' are sold for public use.
Volunteer classes taught at community colleges or through trade associations, would certainly be welcomed by employers. But I will make it clear a government/insurace backed mandatory course will do nothing to change character traits of an ill conscience operator >:(
I sell saws and this is a very real concern for me. The majority of my customers are first time users, does not take long to spot the BSers, and safety gear is a hard sell after they just laid down three or four hundred dollars. I simply can't take the time to give them more than a few safety tips as they hurry out the door to the office meeting.
There is some training available through workers comp but nothing for the consumer.
I don't want to be the fall guy when that lawyer shows up looking for victims so how do I protect myself.
I'm not a lawyer, so really don't know, but I would have a sales form signed by the buyer of the saw that has verbage in it that explains the safety equipment available, recommends materials to read for safety, and other resources for training (maybe even offer classes at your shop) just as 'boiler plate' if that lawyer shows up at your door. You can then show in writing the effort you made to help the customer.
There may be customers out there that a class by you would 'sell' them on buying a saw, but it may also let some potential customers become aware that they shouldn't buy the saw, but instead get professional help to saw their wood. Unfortunately, the latter may mean less business for you, if selling saws is the main objective. I suspect these same people that decide not to buy a saw may come back to you for more professional advice and sales, feeling good about your concern for their safety. Just a wild guess on my part. ???
Two things come to mind, put a note on the customers receipt and also the same in a verbal comment ...Be sure to read the owners manual and call me if you don't understand anything.
Safety training for operating a chain saw is not bs.
The reason for the training is too many people are getting killed and hurt with chain saws.
Common sense doesn't always work, that's why the construction regulations have to tell people not to hit blasting caps with a hammer...
somebody tried it and I'll bet they weren't the only one.
Ayone who thinks they know all about chain saws, take the course and you'll soon learn how much you didn't know.
I agree with Kevin on this. And I do think it's a requirement of logging contractors who work on crown lands in New Brunswick. I might be mistaken, but I think anyone operating heavy logging equipment on crown needs certification also. Our community college does the certification and the info can be found on my sight (there are courses sheduled for this spring, but places and dates not set).They have an add in Atlantic Forestry Review Magazine for anyone in the Maritimes. Also, some of the marketing boards put on chainsaw and thinning saw safety and maintenance courses put on my Sthil Canada (Micheal Papinau ?) in the spring when its not as busy in the woods. This fellow is good and is tied up full time putting on these courses, he's out of Quebec.
cheers
i hate govt regulations.. mabe it oughta start at the dealer..
if a man wants to pay the bucks for a quality saw..
mabe you could keep a log out side an on the pretexed of seeing how the saws is .. take him out there an see if he knows as much as he says..mabe a booklet or something ,on felling..
god helpum ,if they dont know what they doing..
but im alive and i sure didnt have any training..ive made my share of stupid moves..
i think these forums are a good educational tool ..
mabe the dealers can keep a sign ,with this site on the counter.. then give a strong recommendation that they look it up an do a search on safety in fellin an such..more needs to be done ,in any case.. if nothin else,, just to kinda look after you customer.
Have you ever wondered why we have to pay fees for permits and other paperwork to be done in local govenment offices?
When you think about it, our tax dollars go to support these offices, salaries, office expenditures, etc, so why do we have to pay again when we need their services?
I was surprised when my wife and I adopted our daughter how much you have to pay for "filing fees" and all the other nonsense.
It was explained to me that the fees cover the cost of state employees performing the work of transfering and mailing the proper documents to the other state involved, postage, and the other expenses related to our case.
Same with the courts, our taxes support the courts but if you have to go to court to sue someone, you have to pay again for "court costs"
Total nonsense to me.
Here's one for ya. Up until 2005 I could order aerial photos from Service New Brunswick, which is government, and the price was $9.00 per photo. The phots cost $5 to produce and the mailing of them is only 94 cents. Snce January first the price has been increased to $25 bucks a photo, an increase of over 150 %. Someone explain that one. ::)
Meantime, I can get decent color laser copies of photos from the Dept of Natural Resouces for $10 each delivered price. ;D
cheers
Swamp Donkey
It all makes perfect sense, it's the government!!!
We are notorious for taking something that works prefectly fine and is inexpensive and making it more efficient and cost effective. :D :D
I forgot to mention that the chainsaw maintenance and safety course that Sthil Canada hosts is typically 3 days in the classroom going over the saw and safe handling and one half day in the field for hands on with technique. Same with the thinning saw course. We tried going the WCB route after an accident that took place on a corporate landowners forest land, causing death. But, most the attendees did not care for the instructor. I don't see how one day could certify anyone.
Swamp,
Can't you download your aerial photos or topo maps cheaper from the internet?? I use www.mapcard.com. It costs $14.95/year for a subscription but I can download all photos and maps need.
There are also other such map and photo programs available for use.
Ron;
I think that's national coverage and not international.
This is the map service I use but it's CD... http://www.fedpubs.com/mpchrt/maps/qvont.htm#east
Ron,
I can get 1:50,000 DEM's from Natural Resources Canada for free on their GEO database, then generate my own topos in my GIS software. I can register online for property maps and assessment info with SNB at $10.00/month, but I get them free at my loca marketing board office. I can get the annotation layer , roads and streams for free from Service NB as shapefiles. I can also get a CD from DNR&E for free with the same info. In fact DNR&E generated the same shapefiles SNB provides. I have to order or go purchase the aerial photos from SNB at a premium or order them as laser copies at a reduced rate from DNR&E at timber management branch. I think SNB will offers aerials online through the National Air Photo Library ($24-40 a pop depends on DPI and color) which is totally unrealistic.
http://www.snb.ca/e/6000/6905e.asp
http://airphotos.nrcan.gc.ca/index_e.php
I've just been digging a little deeper in SNB's website and they do have Orthographic photos covering some of the provincial grid and they are free for now. The format is MrSID or TIFF. They were created to match the current map numbering system, which is great to save confusion. The SID files are around 2.8 megs covering 15 x 10 km. 1 meter resolution I think. 8)
The project won't be complete until sometime in 2006. It's great because they are all rectified and everything. I just downloaded one and it fits like a glove on my GIS property layer. For now, it seems to be free. :)
I'm not in favor of Big Brother throwing his weight around, but in some circumstances I think that training is worthwhile. I can't really comment on certifications for professional saw users because I'm not in the tree or lumber business.
I tinker with nonrunning chainsaws & try to bring them back to life, but I rarely do any real cutting. I''ve always treated chain saws as powerful & potentially dangerous tools, but after reading this forum & some others, I realize that there are many things that I don't know about saws & using them properly & safely. If I were to purchase some heavily wooded property I'd definately need some training.
An experienced sawyer might need training in felling. Someone who fells in the woods might need training doing residential removals. And so on.
Oh yeah-a healthy dose of common sense never hurt anyone.
Y'all be careful.
no offense jd but im not runnin a 40 cc saw cause i wont get anything done. not only that the little saws get get you just as quick if not quicker especailly with the short bars. i couldnt run a 40cc cause the smallest we have is a 71 and im not buyin one to run for six months. i prefer my 288 husky. its pretty safe if ya watch what yur doin. the idea of some one watchin you though i agree wtih because id be cut a lot of times if i wasnt watchedon ocassion
Here in Arkansas, you can get a permit that is like a hunting license. It allows you to cut in certain areas of the national forest . Usually it is illegal to cut in the national forest, at all.
Jackal
I think that the term "Civil Servant" is a misnomer. the ones that I have been forced to deal with are neither civil nor have any concept of servitude. Revenue gathering seem ot be their sole interest. Am I an Anarchist?