The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: Dave Shepard on November 18, 2008, 09:51:19 PM

Title: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 18, 2008, 09:51:19 PM
What do you use? The framing nailer wouldn't do it, and the nails were too soft to finish with a hammer. Is there a stronger framing nail that can be used to hand nail them? They sure are nail resistant! :-\
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: farmerdoug on November 18, 2008, 10:01:04 PM
Are you talking about the ply lams?

I nailed many of those as a carpenter.  16Ds and the old fashioned framing hammer did the trick.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 18, 2008, 10:09:41 PM
We're using 16's in the framing gun, I think .130 diameter. Are the regular nails any stiffer? If the nails don't get bent over by the gun, you can sometimes get them finished with a hammer. Yes, they are the laminated ply beams, 1 3/4"x16"
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Grawulf on November 18, 2008, 10:22:08 PM
Dave,
What brand of framing nailer are you using? What psi? I've not had any problems using a Bostich at about 115# - also, using the tip trigger instead of the finger trigger will help.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: farmerdoug on November 18, 2008, 11:05:20 PM
Never used a nail gun as we always felt a major beam should use regular 16Ds.  I know at that time the nailgun nails were alot thinner. 

I told my crew that if hand nailing a support beam was to hard then I did not want to stay in a house they built. ;)
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: low_48 on November 18, 2008, 11:30:02 PM
We always had some ring shank pole barn nails on the farm. When I built my garage with recycled doug fir I had to get something better as the fir was so hard. Bent 16d's were getting too common. Bought the pole barn nails and had success. The are heat treated and are almost as good as a lag bolt. Pulling them out is almost impossible. Now this was a lot of years ago, bet they are expensive as the berries now.

http://www.nationalnail.com/Catalog.asp?s=1&c=88&f=397&dd=ON
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: jdtuttle on November 19, 2008, 07:04:44 AM
16 commons have a little larger diameter & will work.
Jim
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 19, 2008, 07:20:58 AM
Thanks, I was thinking pole barn nails might be the way to go. I think there is a box of 16's around, I'd rather hand nail than have a bunch of bent air nailer nails. ;) The gun is a Stanley/Bostich.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Meadows Miller on November 19, 2008, 10:22:53 AM
Gday

Ive  nailed glulam beams both ways work well for me .with the bostich gun most gun nails these days have glue on the shaft and will be pain to finish nailing with the hammer within a few seconds if you dont finish driving them strait away as the glue is still hot after the friction of the inital drive thats why i even have the nail bag on when  framing with a gun

Chris
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 19, 2008, 08:08:53 PM
I hand nailed them. It worked well, but a little awkward up amongst the old structure.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Victor on November 19, 2008, 11:36:37 PM
I'd use a 16D or 20D Maze PTL ring shank nail as shown in the link.

http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/catalog.php?page=PAGE15&group=PTL

Victor
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: scsmith42 on November 20, 2008, 10:32:39 AM
One of the local tool shops stocks a special nail gun/ compressor combination that they sell for laminated beams.  I think that the working pressure is 300psi, or thereabouts.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 20, 2008, 06:10:41 PM
Do you have a brand name? The hand nailing was no big deal, although if you had a ton of it to do, it would save time to have a power nailer. Building inspector visited today, all of our rafters need hangers, so it'll be even more nails, but they will be shorter, maybe that will help.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: scsmith42 on November 20, 2008, 09:07:54 PM
Dave, I'll check with my tool supplier and get back with you. 

If you want to call directly, it's J&W tools 919.303.4730, ask for Luis and tell him that  Scott Smith referred you.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: jdtuttle on November 21, 2008, 08:43:59 AM
all of our rafters need hangers

Dave, Hangers require special nails. Check with your supplier for the proper ones.
Jim
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: clif on November 21, 2008, 11:26:19 AM
There are hanger nail nail guns that work very good!
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: scsmith42 on November 21, 2008, 01:21:29 PM
Dave, according to my supplier a company called "Max Tools" makes a 400 psi system for Laminated lumber (works especially well on laminated hardwood lumber).

Their products include a Framing nailer, pin nailer (concrete), and joist hanger nailers.

Here is the link to their website:

http://www.maxusacorp.com/

Hope this helps.

Scott
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 21, 2008, 02:24:33 PM
Cool. Thanks everyone. I'll check out that link. :)
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 22, 2008, 09:11:40 PM
One of the local builders supply places carries Max tools. Compressors are $1500.  :-\ The guns themselves are comparable to regular standard pressure nailers, price-wise. Stanley makes a heavy duty standard pressure framer as well for engineered beams.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Reddog on November 22, 2008, 09:29:31 PM
400 psi is easy to get from a CO2 cylinder. 1500 would fill a lot of cylinders.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Hi-Country Orange on November 22, 2008, 10:36:16 PM
a palm nailier might help out on some of those appilcations
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: medic1289 on November 23, 2008, 02:29:25 AM
I second the palm nailer option. Not as quick as a nailer, but one heck of a lot cheaper. Great in tight spots. Does aggravate the dickens out of the carpal tunnel though!!
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Norm on November 23, 2008, 07:24:50 AM
I've used a palm nailer for years to put in hangers. Finally broke mine and decided to invest in a true joist nailer. Wow what a difference it made, takes me a fraction of the time the palm nailer did and it is a lot more accurate.
Title: Re: Nailing Laminated beams?
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 23, 2008, 09:55:17 AM
The palm nailers look pretty neat, a good value for what they are. I was watching some videos of them on the 'Tube last night.

I got to thinking about the JacPac air canisters last night. They are an 825psi CO2 can. I think it would work a lot better to use a PCP air rifle tank at ~200 bar (3000 psi) and charge it off of a SCUBA tank which is ~300 bar. It would last a lot longer. It would be even cooler if the tank was built into the gun.