Got my copy of Consumers Report yesterday on the best and worst of 2009 cars, almost without exception all the best cars were made by Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai. Here's the question I have, even though these three companies are making cars in the US, why is the quality still way superior to GM, Ford, and Chrysler? I understand quality control, but why would it be better for the former and not the latter? The US companies have known for years that their quality was inferior, why not look at how the better companies make cars and make adjustments? I personally think it was more attitude of executives, we know what you need, not what you what.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Chevrolet truck, and probably will never buy anything else. It just aggravates the crap out of me that when you look at why people aren't buying US companies cars the the first thing mentioned, NOT RELIABLE, poor fit and finish, fuel mileage. My personal opinion is throw all the top people out, take away all bonuses, including stock options, and tie all their pay to how well the company is doing. That includes bankers as well.
i personally think the big 3 stragity was make them cheep and they would sell more of them it worked for a long time until people like me got sick at the sight of them i owned several of them over the years and i serously doubt i will ever get over the remberance of some of the crap they pulled on me :( :( ::) ::)
Part of the problem you're seeing is that they are looking at car companies as a whole. There are several American made cars that are getting good reviews and seem to be up to the standards of the Japanese. I think the new Chevrolet Malibu and Ford Focus rank up there but when the rest (or most) of the brand isn't so hot, they get buried with them.
If you like more accurate ratings on vehicles, down to the year, make and model of each car, check out http://www.truedelta.com/. If you become a member you can get much more up-to-date reports of reliability (actual reports of trips to the shop). Being a member only requires replying to four emails a year and reporting when your vehicle goes into the shop. Takes about five minutes a month.
Clark
I am asking. Don't shoot.
How do the unions of the foreign-based companies stack up against the UAW?
And if that is not the big issue, are the pensions being collected by so many retired UAW members causing their former employers to cut costs elsewhere in order to meet contractual obligations to the retirees?
the fixed costs of the big 3 are pretty high.
You're probably pretty close to the causes, Kevin.
Quote from: CLL on March 03, 2009, 07:39:50 PM
Got my copy of Consumers Report yesterday on the best and worst of 2009 cars, almost without exception all the best cars were made by Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai. ...............
IMO, this country would be wise to not pay much attention to Consumers Report. It is a paid-for group that has since its beginning, picked foreign built cars. One of the first eggs it layed, were the bad rap the GM X cars received. I ran three of them (Citations) and they all went nearly flawlessly for 150,000 miles each (except for the CV joints >:( ). There are other examples too of great US products that CR would run into the ground. If one looks at their financing and mode of operation, it is not the unbiased group of data collectors that they try to act like. But, many consumers think they are the bible. I think they are a good source for getting ideas, not the best or the poorest products. My 2 cents.
I bought a Toyota pickup after running several S-10 pickups. I had a choice of getting a truck made in the US or one made in Mexico, so I bought a Toyota. Many of the foreign cars are made in the US. Where do the parts come from on most of the cars, American or foreign?
I think it comes down to company philosophy. Buy American has pulled many of the Big 3 along, but that crowd is now a dying breed. The new generations don't have that loyalty, so the American cars have to compete even more than in the past. The cheaper cars just don't stand up to the foreign made cars. Where's today's market, cheap or expensive?
Here in Ontario Honda and Toyota workers are not union. Their wages are somewhat lower than the unionized GM, Ford, and Chrysler workers, but efforts by the unions to sign them up have failed. I guess when you are happy with how your company treats you there is no motivation to pay monthly fees to a union.
I'm not convinced that the foreign makes are any better than the cars the "Big Three" are putting out. There have always been certain models of every make that turned out to be "a good'un", and every make has turned out some dogs. Our "good" car is a 2000 Plymouth Grand Voyager with about 130k on it and it runs and drives like a brand new one. I haven't owned a foreign make in a long time, so all I can go by is what I see settin' beside the road with the hood up, or who is laying down a smokescreen. Proportionate to their total numbers, I seem to notice an awful lot of Mercedes and Volvos in that group. ::)
I readily concede that the Big Three have been less than responsible, but there are also some strong mitigating circumstances. Actually, I'm pretty amazed that they even still exist with the way the Unions have bled them. I also don't completely blame their current CEOs, since none of them have been there more than a few years. The suggestion that they don't build what people want is pure hogwash. What people want is easy financing, and the ability to buy more than they can pay for, and that's what they've been doing. The current problems they're having have nothing to do with cars. It's all about the money, and the fact that the financial world has cut off the easy bucks, IMHO.
I agree about Consumer Reports.
They are neither objective nor impartial - contrary to their claims (based on not accepting advertising).
My truck is a 2000 F250 diesel. It has 225,000 on it, and I haven't spent more than 3000 on repairs. I got it new, and have done the maintenence, but I tow heavy trailers a lot and drive on logging and ranch roads all the time. It still looks great and drives like always. This truck barely gets mentioned in consumer reports though. My wife has had 2 VW cars, a 2003 and 2006, love them both, they got bad reviews in Consumer Reports. We don't pay a lot of attention to them anymore.
I know CR isn't the bible of things, I take everything with a grain of salt. DanG your right too, Mercedes and Volvo both got bad ratings on MOST of their cars. I've had good cars and bad cars of most brands as I drive over 100,000 miles a year, and it don't take long for the flaws to start showing up,usually after the warranty has run out :D. I think the biggest trick is keeping up with proper maintence. Pay me now or pay me later is right, better a little at a time than a lot later.
Not sure how this fits in with best and worst, but as for vehicles, I've been all over the map, and anymore it comes down to dealership support. I learned from a VW dealer back in 1975 what a difference a truely good dealership makes. Happened just last year too; never owned a Ford, but the dealership I found made a huge difference in my opinion, so now I own a Ford, and the support has been excellent. At least as long as I am still in this area I live in, GM and Dodge will not see anymore of my money, dealership support is just not there, too many fights and arguments.
As for the best and worst of 09, I don't see things changing until prices of necessities stableize; trying to live within a budget when such necessities as energy are priced as commodities just cannot work. Most people can handle moderate, yearly inflation, but not sudden deal busters as what we saw happen to fuel, electricity, and gas. In this context I am speaking of people who do try to live within their means. It's tough when they keep messin with my "means."
Many of the auto factories in the southern US aren't union, either. The pay at BMW in SC isn't all that great, but they must treat people well, because there's a line to get in. I've noticed that although Japanese cars seem to be more reliable during their 'normal' lifespan, you never see any old ones around. After about 10 years, they seem to disappear, while the older Detroit iron is still chugging. I don't know if the Detroit iron is built heavier, or if the price of Japanese parts is too high for your average shade-tree.
I'm simply amazed at all the Toyota cars and trucks around here. We "used to have" tiny Toyota dealerships compared to GM/FORD/Chrysler. Now you don't even have to get out of the car when you go for an inspection in the Toyota dealership. The garage door raises like going into the grocery and all you do is sign in for your appointment and sit in the lounge. Just 3 years ago the Toyota dealers where really tiny and hardly any selection on the lot. I go to a store and there is a Toyota in front of me and on both sides now pretty much every time. The domestics are selling to as the dealers are not closed up at all, but used to not hardly see a Toyota back in the 80's. Most road engineering firms drive all Ford and GM pickups and the forestry companies are driving Ford and GM, the contractors are driving Toyota Tacomas. I would have bought one, but at the time they only had V6 in Canada, now last year they brought 4 cyl. back, but i had already gotten my RAV4 by then. I can go anywhere, even across beaver ponds. ;D
The Marketing board purchased a 2000 model Tacoma and there was some thing the company issued a recall on and they gave them $15,000 for the truck last year. It was $30,000 back in 2000 including tax. It had over 200,000 km. Quite difference yes, between Km and miles as we know. But still. They said mileage did not matter on the recall. Now that's standing behind your product. The best you'll here from GM around here is, "can I sell you a new model, would you like to see what we offer this year?" They certainly would never buy it back.
scargoyle you make some good points for thought. I been thinking about it since I read your post. I've come to the conclusion that it is demand. Lack of it.
Think about how the foreign imports looked from the 70s, 80s and even into the early 90s most of them were pretty bland or even ugly. Those old Datsun trucks are butt-ugly but I'd love to have one and prolly you would too. But you and me aren't going to affect the market much.
Most Amricans want slick-looking cars. The imports of the last 15ish years look pretty good. But the ones before that are ugly. This theory might be all wrong but that's all I can come up with. I know when you go to a auction whether a blue-collar auction or a high-end auction, you see American almost exclusively. Why? Demand. If dealers could sell old imports you can bet they'd be in those auctions.
I couldn't help but zero in on Ron's comment about "where the parts came from".
Just about all the problems I've had in the last 15 years on my Blazers was with parts that were made by an after-market vendor, not the mainframe automoblie. It has had me wandering about where the problems originated for a long time.
We have a quite large extended family. At any one time I would guess a dozen or more Saturns are owned by family members...mostly by the female side cause they are a bit small. Most have more than 150,000 miles when sold or traded with little or no repairs. I sold Kathy's with something north of 130,000 miles and we made friends with the buyer...they have more than 200,000 miles on it and they can't believe how much money they saved because of it.
So when GM is asking for bailout money why are they talking about selling off Saturn? Because they can't make money on a cheap car?
When I bought my F350 it was used and had like 160K on it but it looked new. He used to to run from Kansas City to Dallas twice a month hauling vinyl fence I think it was.
Before I got in the truck to drive off he said "My wife prayed last night that you would get many trouble free miles from her." I thanked him sincerely and drove off.
Now that the odometer reads north of 280,000 (I have not driven it much at all this past or current year ~ just for logging) I am starting to wonder if they asked the good Lord to give me a certain number of miles or just "many" trouble free miles. I hope they asked Him for a million+.
My wife and I sold a car we never drove any longer not long ago and so we returned the favor. I can't remember if we asked for a certain amount of miles but next time I am going to ask for unlimited mileage. ;D
First I will say I believe that American cars are catching up in quality.
The difference is in management. The Japanese management philosophy is called kaizen which means continuous improvement. The Japanese have shared the knowledge with American companies because they are not afraid of them being able to copy it. There are many parts to this process. American companies seem to try and take a part of the process and implement it but struggle with the whole kaizen philosophy.
The Japanese try and improve every little process they can. A part of the process that most Americans can identify with is just in time ordering where parts get to you as you need them. The Japanese also gain alot of insight into improvements from the people who are doing the process along with the engineers. Another part of the process in some of the factories is any employee on the line can shut the line down if a problem is found (or at least used to be able to). In an american plant processes are not improved unless they make a big difference. Some of the machinery in American plants is old and does not work well with just in time situations. Another factor is the moral of employees in most Japanese plants is better than in the American plants. If an employee feels better about thier job they will work harder and take more pride in the output. What is odd is the employee in the American plant is paid more than those in the Japanese plants so great pay does not neccesarily make for a happier worker. There is much more to Kaizen and it is interesting. Try doing a google search on the subject.
The big three build cheap and sell for big dollars.
Dad had a ford he is a ford man to the day he dies.
Had a f150 with the 300 inline six had over 200,000 some miles.
The problem he had were things that would brake should have been made out of somthing better.
The spring brackets on the back of the truck broke i dont remember how many times. He is not hard on this trucks and the mantaims is done like clock work.
My friend worked for a dealership and ever year they would get a book the size of a bible of recalls on cars that just came out.
Thanks Alot Mr Mom
Quote from: TexasTimbers on March 04, 2009, 06:59:51 PM
Most Amricans want slick-looking cars. The imports of the last 15ish years look pretty good. But the ones before that are ugly. This theory might be all wrong but that's all I can come up with. I know when you go to a auction whether a blue-collar auction or a high-end auction, you see American almost exclusively. Why? Demand. If dealers could sell old imports you can bet they'd be in those auctions.
I think that is part of it, but a bigger part of it is Americans wanted big vehicles. Not compact vehicles with smaller engines that later became small, strong and more fuel efficient engines.
Around here you can hardly place an offer on a used foreign car because someone else has already got dibs on it. Plain and simple. American cars are like the throw away wash machine and depreciate a lot faster in value. :D Now you can argue whether it's just hype, euphoria or whatever around foreign cars, but it's also a reality. ;) Today just for the heck of it, I took notice of the traffic and who was driving domestic versus Toyota cars. I also looked in drive ways. Out of 10 cars I passed coming from 30 minutes from home I saw 8 Toyota's. Out of 10 residences I counted 18 cars, most had single vehicles. Those with more than one car had either FORD or GM products, any with one car had a Toyota. I tallied up 6 Toyota vehicles, so in 4 out of 10 residences domestic cars had more than half of the total. Today in the grocery parking lot the car in front was Toyota and two directly behind me in the next parking row were Toyota and the car on either side of me were GM cars. However I would say in the lot as a whole, there were more domestic cars, but I also saw many other brands of foreign cars as well: Honda, Hyundi, VW, Nissan.
I think a lot has to do with who has the best representation in an area. We rarely see that many Fords. There are only a few dealers in the area. But, every little town around used to have a Chevy dealer. So, GM is heavy in the area.
But, who is building new dealerships in our area? Hyundai, Honda, Nissan, and Toyota. Chevy closed the local dealership last year. And most dealers deal with more than one company. The place I bought my Toyota is the same place that I've been buying Chevys.
In Woodstock there are two GM dealers, one Ford, one Dodge, one Honda and one Toyota. Everything else has to be bought from 100 miles away. Grand Falls has the same ratio (except only one GM dealer) and brands, I'm half way in between. Small local villages have used cars only, mostly domestic. Seems to be a lot of Toyota cars verses all the other numbers of brands for local sales. ;D No town around here has 10,000 residents, most our population is rural. Farmers tend to buy GM and Ford.
i blame epa for part of the problem , every time they tighten up the spec supposedly for cleaner air that year model car will have a lot of problems example 1997 ,2002, 2007 , 2010 ,i have decided best thing to do is stay away from them year models , i found this out the hard way ::) ::) :-[ :-[
I would love to see 100% American cars come back and be the best sellers.
As a young fellow, I bought my new wife a 2 year old Buick Century with about 23,000 miles on it. Quite fancy, but she's a fancy gal!
Within a year, we'd replaced the radiator, rotors (due to warp, not pads worn out), intake manifold gasket and finally transmission at about 38K. GM didn't stand behind it. The 3 yr, 36K warrantee was gone.
I sold that thing and bought a '68 f-bird for her. At least I could work on the thing!
Then, I got her a new Honda Accord. It only had a 3/36 warrantee also. She ran it for 206K and never replaced anything but wear items. Not even a carberator, alternator or starter went bad! Sold it for $2000.
Bought another new Accord in 2000. Again, just a 3/36 warranty. At 99,500, the tranny went out. Honda had sent us a letter saying they were having problems with the trannys, and they would stand behind them up until 7 years/100K miles. They took the car in and two days later we had it back. No charge.
Until GM, Ford, Chrysler, or Joe (whoever buys whatever's left of the one(s) that fail) step up to the plate and treat buyers like Honda has treated us, I can't see me buying their product.
If anyone wants to buy a nice used Accord, we'll be ready to sell it in about 4 more years - when it is near 200K.
I need to add something here. They're not all great. I've been real displeased with the service department for general service. Let me just say that it is my belief that they were trying to steal from us by saying there were problems with the car that didn't exist, and did it while the car was in for a major (timing belt) service. I smelled something was wrong and directed them to button it bacl up once they'd replaced the timing belt. Good thing I did. They were off by 100% on their measurement of brake pad wear. Several other "problems" were more in their imagination than reality. I bought a manual and started doing all the maintenance myself.
Bottom line - a fine car, but each dealer stands on its own for good work and integrity.
i went the same route , 2or 3 chev 1 buick 1 or 2 chryliser prod 1 honda accord that we gave to one in the family with over 100,000 miles on it we got a crv now that has done passed a 100,000 miles and a honda odssey with around 80,000 miles no problems with any of them i do the mainteance all 3 cars were back at the dealer 3 times for recall work again no problem , ito would like to buy american but with the trouble in the past , it is going to be hard to do :( :( 8)
American cars have been good to me. Nearly no complaints.
'51 Rambler (hot rodded it in HS)
'52 Ford mainline V-8 2 dr in HS. It got beat up pretty bad. ::) ::)
'54 Mercury (was a tank and used and a good college kids ride)
'57 Chevy 4dr hardtop, robins egg 2-tone..rusted through at 160,000, and had rebuilt engine. But wish I had it now.
'64 Rambler Classic station wagon (V-8, hard to start in winter but 120,000 miles)
'68 Ambassador wagon (used, V-8 with mucho power, but block was rusty and had lots of water cooling problems)
'71 Ford Maverick ( straight 6, great car, but eventually rusted through the uni-body at 140,000 miles)
'75 Mercury Marquis Sta Wagon (a real big boat but room for family of 6) used, with 75,000, and added 50k.
'77 Mercury Monarch (lots of problems with catalytic converter...worst car of all, but still not a headache)
'81 Chevy Citation (great car, and never had a recall or a complaint..150,000)
'85 Chevy Citation (used, but added 100,000 miles...no problems other than CV joints).
'83 Pontiac Phoenix (wife drove, 4 cyl, and no major complaints..kids said it lacked power ;D )
'89 Chevy Celebrity (new and a great running car, with 145,000 and then some rust)
'95 Buick Century (new and a great running car, with 135,000 - - traded but wished I'd kept it)
'90 Cavalier Z24 (Wife's sport car, that had a lot of get up and go...not good in snow. About 60k and trade)
'98 Pontiac Montana Van (no major problems, and don't recall miles when wife didn't want to drive it anymore)
'01 Chevy pickup (too small and no guts...so traded after 6 months)
'02 Chevy Trailblazer (super ride and NO mechanical problems, no rust, only tires, and filters and sold at 149,950k) Best of all of them
'07 Chevy Mailibu (Wife's car, too small for my taste, but she likes it)
'09 Chevy Trailblazer (one of the last off the assembly line. Hope it is as good as the '02)
Toss in a used VW bug in there, and a '63 Ford 3/4 ton but not much to say about them. :)
Absolutely have not had a bad American-made car. Just my experience. Others have theirs. ::) ::)
Drove a '77 gas Ford f-250 for over 300K miles, and it had 56K on it when I bought it. Yeah, it was about worn to the nub when I got rid of it. I figure it had close to 400K on it when I sent it to the scrap heap. But other than replacing the clutch 3 times maintenance was nothing to be worth mentioning.
I've had many different cars, and a lot of 'em were imports. (Mostly European.) By and large reliability was great but maintenance was pretty stout.
My current vehicle is a bought new '04 Dodge Ram 1500. I've got about75K on it. The fit and finish are not particularly good. The power and gas mileage are less than impressive, IMHO, especially when towing. I will, however, say that the dealer support has been outstanding, no matter where the DanG thing decided to break down.
If I buy another Dodge Pickup, it'll be a diesel. But Dodge Diesels are built in Mexico. Great trucks, but they only got American names, not American construction.
A few years ago I wanted to buy a new grill. I was looking for a stainless steel grill, with brass or bronze burners. Didn't want anything particularly big, but I knew what I wanted and that's what I wanted. I ended up buying a grill made in China. It was bigger than I wanted, but it had all the criteria I was looking for. Cost me right at $1000. The closest American made grill I could find was OVER $5000!!! And it didn't have all the features I wanted, either. Yeah, I'd prefer to buy American. But do a reality check.
I guess what I'm trying to say in my roundabout way is that I'd much rather buy American, but I can't do that if I'm not given a viable opportunity.
Another point. (I'd like to hear from our Canadian friends about this) the last time I was in northern Ontario the local WalMart was bragging how 90% of their product was made in either the US or Canada. If that's true, why (and how) is WalMart doing that there and not here?
Walmart does have a lot of made in Canada/USA products, just depends what your buying. There is also a pile of China made stuff to. I never looked at it close enough for percentages. I bought 3 items yesterday and they were one each from China, Belgium, Canada. One thing I don't notice is stuff made in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, and Guatemala like I do in Walmart USA. Walmart prices here are not even competing with the local stores. They can't even match grocery prices at Atlantic Super Store grocery. Paper products such as printing papers are all Canadian made and cheaper to buy in Canada than in the US, surprisingly.
With GM on its death bed one has to wonder why a small car company called KIA is having spectacular sales and growth? They are scheduled to open a brand new manufacturing plant in Georgia later this year. What did GM do wrong and what did KIA do right? Me thinks Ford, Honda, and Toyota are asking those questions right now.
Full disclosure...I do not own either brand. In fact I wouldn't recognize a KIA if one bit me. I must admit there 10 year/100,000 warranty has tweaked my curiosity on occasion.
http://www.kia.com/#/about/
They aren't popular here at all although are often in sweepstakes giveaways. I see one once in awhile, but we have no local dealers.
This area is literally crawling with Kias. There is a dealer in Tallahassee, and has been for several years. They're doing the same thing Toyota and Datsun did when they first started in this Country. They're selling cheap and offering easy financing. For a long time they advertised, "If you have a job making $300 per week, you can buy a new car." It obviously worked.
It's pretty easy for them to do this. They have exactly zero retirees on their rolls. They are locating their plant in an area where $13/hr is considered a good job, and whatever Union contract they come up with will be according to Georgia law instead of Michigan law.
For some strange, odd ball, reason I'm reminded of the music video of the song "Mr. Roboto" by the band Styx. :D
$13 an hr here is executive pay. :D
Personally, I've not had what I would consider a 'bad' any vehicle. Unfortunately, there have been occassions I have bought a few previously abused vehicles that had physical trauma.
The '72 Ford Pinto was a tough little car for us and was relatively trouble free, once I learned to remove all that factory breathing equipment which caused a broken carbuerator.
'49 Dodge Pickup...wish I still had it
'51 Chevy Pickup...liked the Dodge better
'53 Chevy...should have kept the '51
'55 Chevy Apache...still rather have the Dodge
'57 long bed Chevy....rode way hard and put up wet...once too often
'62 Ford short bed...big V8, lots of power...terrible brakes....
all those were hog working vehicles
'56 Bel Air sedan
'57 Bel Air sedan...283...nice car...weak front ends
'57 Bel Air sedan...327...fast, ugly, pieced together ringer :D
'62 Studebaker...tempermental
'65 Olds Delmont 88.....425....good, solid, comfortable cruiser...
'66 Toyota sedan...column shift...tough little bugger
The Pinto
'74 Comet...nice ride, but tempermental
'66 GMC pickup...really abused
'74 Dodge pickup...really good truck
'86 Dodge D-50 (first new truck)(Mitsubishi)...Worked very...traded at 245,000 miles for a Mercedes project car (mistake)
'79 Dodge Adventurer pickup...abused, beat up, shot, but like Timex...
'90 Geo Metro...3 cyl, 50 mpg w/air running, got traded in w/over 250,000 miles...just maintenance andnew timing belts, etc.
'96 Cavalier sedan...traded it at about 90,000 shortly after air went out...it did drive about 2 miles through fairly swift water almost up to the windows...thankfully...wonder anything worked on it after that
'98 Ford Ranger XLT ext cab....good little truck, but had to trade it in on a Dodge with more room (grandchildren)
'01 Dakota Quad cab...really good truck...only 'problem' was poor fuel mileage in town (not one of consumer reports favorites)
'01 Dodge Neon....lot of fun (manual trans), economical, dependable (regardless of consumer reports)
'03 PT Cruiser....Manual trans., bad front brake caliper, power steering problem, expensive to work on...Chrysler and dealership always did the right thing
'05 Dakota Quad....even better than the '01...same fuel
'07 Dodge Caliber...bought in early '06 well built, economical utilitarian...letting the last two one children of the house use as they learn, prepare, etc.
'07 Dodge Nitro...A surprising vehicle...good fuel, ride, power, features....voted most pleased by my wife. ;D
'07 Dodge 1500 Quad SLT....so far, so good
What I have noticed in consumer reports (have been online subscriber several years), is that they generally 'test' the 'have the mostest stuff' type of particular vehicle. I also find, that their obsession with features of a less than utilitarian nature annoy me.
I'm not interested in the "Oooooo and Ahhhhhh" capability. I like to go from point A to B with no worries, whether it''s 5 miles or 5,000, loaded, unloaded, etc.
I'm not planning to take them out on the track or contest speed and agility in other places. (well, admittedly, when we took the Nitro to the Black Hills, Spearfish Canyon begged me take it on. I did. Decreasing my time each run. :D I was very impressed. So were all the bikers (Sturgis time of year). :D
I do find that a good, solid, down to earth dealership can make worlds of difference in vehicle impression. But then, so can the owner themselves.
I must be weird.
Since I turnt 16 and started driving I have had only 4 vehicles. I'm 3 months shy of turning 45.
The last 2 listed are the only 2 I have owned at the same time (which is currently).
'78 Chevy truck (dad still uses on the farm)
'84 Olds Cutlass (got about 180,000 out of it)
'89 Acura Legend (just turned 291,000)
'96 Ford F-250 (has about 165,000 on it)
Of course, all of these were bought used.
I don't know how you guys can remember your vehicles like that. I don't know how many I have owned several dozen, but ask me to list them and I will say okay give me a pen and paper while you cook the steaks, and after we eat the steaks I will give you my list.
You'd get a page of a few cars and trucks and maybe some stickmen drawings but I would have belly full of grilled cow. ;D
chrysler lebaren bade head , chev one tun truck lifters rattled chev p up cam shaft went out ,buick car camshaft went out ,chev pick up steering problems trans went out idler on fan belt fell off middle of road their was more thats all i rember in all above cases had to call district reps to get problem resolved under warrentee ,their will be no more :( :(
The last new vehicle I bought was a '75 Pontiac Catalina. I had to get it towed to the dealer with a bad oil pump, within the 12,000 mile/1 year warranty period. While they had it, the dealer stole my gas and my sunglasses. Since then, I've bought cheap, fixed them myself, and sold them cheap when they weren't working out. I always seem to get where I want to go. ;D
One good thing about DanG's method is, there is no reason not to just walk away from the thing when it gets to deserving it. They are all just pieces of junk in the making anyway. ::)
closes thing i got to being new has got 88,000 miles oldest has 240,000 miles , not planning on trading soon ::) ::)
My festiva has 199,000 and the wife's Altima has about 175,000, both running strong. My idea is buy them right, change oil and lube on schedule and drive them till they die or close. Thats the only way I can see to come out on them.
Not a vehicle on the place less than 12 years old. I buy them for little. run them till I can't fix them any more, then they get used for parts. I try to keep a parts car for all my favorites.
Joe
all things considered that is the way to go , also you have a good hobby taking care of them , ::) ::) :)
I have a KIA Spectra- an 07 model bought late spring 08. I now have 29000 miles on it a year later. The only problem that I have with it is the evap filter is plugging up and turning the check engine light on. The dealership will not cover it under warranty- they call it a maintenance item- bs in my opinion- and they want $250 to replace it- a $20 filter. Other than that, I get 31+ mpg and no other problems.
The 00 Ford Excort ZX2 that I had before this was not bad, but nickel and dimed me to death. I bought it with 80,000, and just after the 30 day warranty expired, the timing belt broke, which busted the camshafts and warped the head. I rebuilt it, and nursed it along for about 3 years and traded it in with 198,000 miles- and still got $1000 for it.
Had a bunch of trucks- no major problems with any of them, and too many to list
Charles
I've bought and drove 4 vehicles in 22 years.
S15 from 1987-1998 (under powered but good working engine, couldn't keep ball joints on it, best warrantee ever)
Dodge Ram 1500 from 1998 - 2006 (POS made in Mexico, bad electrical, bad transmission, bad just about everything, nice cup holder though ;D )
Olds Avero 2002-2006 (fine car, no complaints, trade-in)
RAV4 from 2006 to present (fine car, strong motor, go anywhere)