Just saw a news report about really bad flooding in the midwest. They specifically talked about the North Dakota area. Any members around there? You guys doing okay? It looked pretty bad. Hope and prayers that everyone involved is prepared, will be safe, and the damage will be as minor as possible.
We're right in the middle of the Missouri and we hardly got enough rain to settle the dust. Lots of high winds though. After the front went through, the stream below our house got up some but not bank full indicating they got some rain north of us. I think the most problems were local flash floods.
I am in southern Wisconsin which is a ways from North Dakota. We had some really bad rain yesterday and days before. The Rock river is only a few miles from where I live and it is flooded real bad again. Just like last year and the year before that. Last year was the worst it has ever been Jefferson and other towns on the Rock river got it real bad, they even had to close the interstate for a while. I hope it does not get that bad again. I will try to get some pics for you guys.
Woodcutter,
I saw on the news this morning that you's guy's was gittin' close to last year again ::) ::)
I see Gays Mills is gonna be under water again. Most ain't cleaned up from last year yet. Still waitin' for FEMA to decide whether they're gonna move the town or not :-\ :-\
The news report this morning listed the Red River, I believe, as possibly getting to 41 feet, which is more than double the flood stage. That sounds like a whole lotta water to me.
That Red River is the one flowing North into Canada, I believe.
One report this morning says the dikes have been built to hold to 60 ft around Fargo, but they are still sand bagging while fighting 30 mph winds and 8" of new snow. Sounds like dirty work to me. ::) ::)
What little I read, this morning, talked about Ice Dams, blocking waterways, and backing up the flow. THIS sounds REALLY bad to me ???
I am going to try to go down to Jefferson tonight. I'll try to get some pics, I have some from last year. I sure hope it isn't that bad again.
Im 100 miles east of the red river which is on the north dakota-minnesota border, yes it flows north. Yes its a bad deal, fargos dike and sandbagged to 42 ft , guess what people, its happend before and will happen again. I cant feel sorry for people that know it floods and chose to live there or build there. the biggest reason it floods is its flat fertile ground and has been ditched and tiled to small rivers that lead to the red, nothing holding that water back, blame it on the farmers, long and short of it.
I live about 75 miles west of Bibby and we had water every where. Creeks all out of banks, water standing all over.
I can't feel sorry for these people either. The areas of the Red River flooded bad in 1997 and you would think they would learn that they are in a danger zone. Ice jams in Manitoba are currently backing water up bad enough that they are now claiming that it could be worse than in 1997. In '97 there was no ice jams and just flooding.
Many of the smaller creeks and rivers in the east central part of Saskatchewan feed into the Red River system. The snow melt here has barely begun. Even with our below average snowfall there is still plenty of water to come. Colder weather and snow has slowed the melting process in the last few days creating extra time for the sand baggers. Temperatures are forcasted just around the freezing mark for the next couple of days then is expected to reach 4-5 degrees Celcius.
People are talking about using dynamite to blow the ice jams before the melting speeds up too but guess we will have to wait and see.
Brad.
I saw on the news this morning they were going out in airboats and setting charges on the ice.
Stonebroke
Wow! Some of you are being pretty harsh on those tough hard working people of North Dakota that really ask for little help because they are too proud to do so. Well I guess they did ask the Army Corps of Engineers to cut down the flow of water from the Garrisson Dam and forgo generating electricity at their expense. ::)
They have my complete admiration and support as they don't need or want sympathy in their sometimes annual struggle to save their homes and land from the ravages of very harsh weather. In fact they have been sandbagging steadily for the past few days in the middle of a blizzard that dropped as much as 30 inches of snow on parts of North and South Dakota. There were bus loads of volunteer sandbaggers that had to turn back because of the storm.
Those are some tough people there and I know they will get through this flood just like they survived the past ones. And I haven't seen a single story about anyone sitting waiting for FEMA to come and get them. :)
I struggled with similar feelings when Katrina hit New Orleans. I think there is a major difference here that Gary hit upon. That being, these folks are actively working and doing something to try and save themselves. Yeah, you might could make a case that they ought to not live in such a risky area but you know what? What happens if a major earthquake hits in my area? Are you guys going to say the same thing about me and everyone who lives here? "Well, they shoulda known they were living in a dangerous area".
I suppose it is a bit different in this case, if there really is an argument that these folks may have helped cause the situation. If that is the case, then they basically took a gamble and are now dealing with the consequences. This still shows what Gary brought up. That being, at least they aren't just sitting on their arses crying for someone to come save them.
[steps off soapbox]
All that being said, no matter if they brought it on themselves or not, I do hope no one gets hurt and still pray for them all and for minimal damages.
These floods in the Red River Watershed are now and have been for all time caused by topography and natural events. Specifically those people live in a very large and very flat area that sometimes sees very high snow and rain fall and when put together with rapid warming and snowmelt in the spring they can see very severe floods.
There is little that farmers or anyone else can do to cause or prevent these floods from happening. Those pathetic little man made drainage ditches that are being blamed for these floods are now far below the surface of the water over the land that was once the flat bottom of a large prehistoric lake bed.
Those people that choose to live there are more victims of the forces of nature than to blame for them. And you should not criticize them while you have bread in your food shelves as the wheat the bread is made from probably came from there just as it probably will again this year.
And it is hard to imagine just how flat that land is, until driving across it.
And the fact that it flows north to Winnipeg, where the weather is colder, adds to the ice blockage problems. It is a large lake, until the river opens up north of Winnipeg.
Hope the people make it through this ok.
Hey people, don't get me wrong, I do hope noone gets hurt or loses too much of their possessions and such. I wouldn't want to be in their situation to say the least. I give my praise for all those who showed up to help with a natural disaster. It is not every day that this happens to these people. I totally understand that these people are not asking for any handouts. My largest beef with the whole situation is that people are still living in areas that are known to flood. The lands are very fertile and grow alot of products in these flood plains, but do these people really need to live there??? Live on higher land and travel.... These are just my own opinions so take them how you will.
Brad.
People started living in these floodplains long before they realized the danger. In a valley near me the only way you can build now is to put it on pilings. Looks kind of funny until it does flood. I am sure they have some kind of similar program up there but it takes a while before you can flood proof whole communties.
Stonebroke
Yep, they all need airplanes or helicopters to get to their land from their homes.
Good idea, to not live there. But I don't think it is an option. They are now building higher dikes.
Pretty elaborate dike and flood control system around Winnipeg. But the mileage of flat, productible land is larger than one imagines. :)
I think this land flooded loooonnnggg before people were there. :)
Maybe build the home in an ark, and once in 10-25 years, it will just float. :)
Here is the latest from the Fargo area:
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090326/D975UJVO0.html (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090326/D975UJVO0.html)
FARGO, N.D. (AP) - North Dakota's largest city moved to the brink of potentially disastrous flooding Thursday, with earlier optimism fading as officials predicted the Red River would reach a record-high crest of 41 feet by the weekend.
Thousands of volunteers who have been piling sandbags for days scrambled to add another foot to Fargo's dike protection, and official briefings lost the jokes and quips that had broken the tension earlier in the week. Instead, Thursday's meeting opened with a prayer.
"We need all the help we can get," Mayor Dennis Walaker said.
The city of 92,000 unveiled a contingency evacuation plan Thursday afternoon, but at least four nursing homes already had begun moving residents by then.
"A few of them said they didn't want to go. I said I'm going where the crowd goes," said 98-year-old Margaret "Dolly" Beaucage, who clasped rosary beads as she waited to leave Elim Care Center.
"I'm a swimmer," she said, smiling, "but not that good a swimmer."
The sandbag-making operation at the Fargodome churned as furiously as ever, sending fresh bags out to volunteers who endured temperatures below 20 degrees in the race to sandbag to 43 feet. Leon Schlafmann, Fargo's emergency management director, said he was confident they would succeed by the end of Thursday.
"I was skeptical as far as volunteers coming out today, but they're like mailmen," Schlafmann said. "They come out rain, sleet or shine."
Then for those that don't know here is the status from just across the river in Moorhead, MN.
Similar sandbagging was under way across the river in Moorhead, Minn., where some homes in a low-lying northern township had already flooded. The city was setting up a shelter at its high school after calling for voluntary evacuations in a southern section.
And then from the other side of the state on the Missouri River where the dynamiting of ice jams was located.
As the struggle continued in Fargo, the threat in the state capital of Bismarck was receding. A day after explosives were used to attack an ice jam on the Missouri River south of the city of 59,000, the river had fallen by 2 1/2 feet. At least 1,700 people had been evacuated from low-lying areas of town before the river began to fall.
Then on the Canadian side of the border.
On the Canadian side of the Red River, in Manitoba, ice-clogged culverts, ice jams and the rising river also threatened residents. At least 40 homes were evacuated in communities north of Winnipeg and several dozen houses were flooded as water spilled onto the flat landscape.
"We're in for probably the worst two weeks that this community has ever seen in its entire existence," said St. Clements Mayor Steve Strang.
The region's emergency services coordinator, Paul Guyader, said water levels in the area were dropping but residents are not letting their guard down: The Red River crest threatening North Dakota isn't expected to arrive in Manitoba for another week.
This flooding is not in some isolated area that should not be inhabited. ::)
Yeah, it's quite interesting when you drive toward Winnipeg on Route 2 from the east and see the outline of the city diked. There are two rivers running by Winnipeg, actually 3, one flows south but a ways to the east and heads the Mississippi. In fact, that's the name on the sign. We have a new member from that area, but have not noticed him online lately. Member Paul K out of Anola. Last Active: March 09, 2009.
well river crest now expected to be 42' time to raise the sandbags higher. fargo didnt get 30" of snow and a blizzard, 4" of of snow and ome wind, the 30" was out in the blackhills.
The field draining is not little ditches, its pretty wide spread, everyone of the farmers wants in there fields sooner so its drained its a big time effect, all the grass , weeds, brush, swamps, that held the water flow back and slowed it is gone, if u havent been in that country, u cant understand the difference it makes. Im not bad mouthing the farmers but thats the way it is.
If the water goes over the dikes, the people will be whining to FEMA, U cant compare this to earthquakes, they dont happen evey year at the same place same time.
Just like living in New Orleans, live in a bowl with water above your head, come on man, not to smart, then your warned a week ahead of time the hurricane is coming and stay there, U need to help yourself before i feel for u or help ya, if u help yourself then i will help ya
SwampDonkey, just a question. Did you make a typo on the river from Winnipeg that heads the Mississippi, or am I misunderstanding what you wrote? Cause the Mississippi River I know starts at Lake Itasca, near Park Rapids MN, flows north for a ways, then east for a ways, then in a southerly direction to the Gulf of Mexico.
Quote from: gunman63 on March 26, 2009, 07:40:01 PM
U need to help yourself before i feel for u or help ya, if u help yourself then i will help ya
I am sure the people of the Fargo/Moorhead area will be grateful for your words of wisdom and most generous offer of assistance.
If this spring floods do top the previous record of 40.5 feet that was set back in 1897, I suppose that previous flood that occured 112 years ago was also caused by those farmers drainage practices too. ::)
guess what Gary, flood of 1897 was caused ice jams and rains, guess what grand forks to the north will crest over 50', and they wont flood, flood walls along the river, something fargo should have followed suit with, U have to help yourself, ::) see i can make the pretty little green faces too ;D
Quote from: badpenny on March 26, 2009, 08:48:02 PM
SwampDonkey, just a question. Did you make a typo on the river from Winnipeg that heads the Mississippi, or am I misunderstanding what you wrote? Cause the Mississippi River I know starts at Lake Itasca, near Park Rapids MN, flows north for a ways, then east for a ways, then in a southerly direction to the Gulf of Mexico.
Head of Mississippi could be a lot of places, just depends what source you follow. ;D Mississippi I know begins in Lake of the Woods region near Kenora, Ontario and meanders it's way to the Gulf of Mexico to. ;D Mississippi is east of Winnipeg when you travel route 2, the sign is right there in plane sight on the bridge. It's about 30 feet wide there.
But, when Don Starkell and his two sons paddled 12,000 miles from Winnipeg to the Amazon, he started up the Red River then down the Mississippi.
Hey swampdonkey, I live 20 miles away from the source of the mississippi, it is Lake Itasca,MN. 100 miles south of the canada border, well really its elk lake which flows in to Itasca, but is a smaller lake so they dont claim it is the headwaters. red flows north no way water will flow uphill over the contenental divide, I do beleive that lake of the woods flows east to the great lakes and between our 2 great countrys
I never said the Red flows up hill, I said the Starkell's began paddling up the red river, then they went down the Mississippi. There is a bit of a portage between. As far as the Lake of the Woods, I said the region. There happens to be a divide in there among all those lakes and streams. There is also a portage you make if you travel Lake of The Woods to get into the great lakes, it's a short one. That's why it's called the "Grand Portage". But it is fact. That was an old fur trade route for about 300 years. Too bad I can't get a decent map of rivers and streams and roads off internet. Google and such lack a lot of information at large scale so no way to show anyone much from that. Scale is too small for those darn travel maps. But, regardless it all depends on where your standing as to what is the source. I know if you travel on Route 2 from Kenora to Winnipeg you cross the Mississippi River, it's marked plane as day on the bridge sign. Unless there is some Twilight Zone magic on route 2 highway. ;D
Here is a good explanation of what went wrong this year, also from the AP News.
Several unusual factors sent the Red River surging to historic heights this year. The winter was unusually cold and snowy, which left a large snowpack sitting on top of frozen ground that couldn't absorb it. Then a warm snap and heavy rain quickly melted the snow and sent it into toward the river.
And it all happened to a river that flows north. When most rivers in the United States melt, they send the extra water south toward warmer, open water. When the Red breaks up, it sends hunks of ice north into colder water that is often still frozen.
Yup, and there is a mighty scope of land to the north, that is under water to. Just look at the northern part of Manitoba, two huge lakes and many more you can't even count. ;D
Must be a twilight zone on hwy 2, as I can find hwy 17, 17A and 1 between Kenora and Winnipeg, but no hwy 2
Mississippi River Fact Sheet
· The Mississippi is the longest river in North America
· The Mississippi River winds its way 2,552 miles as it travels from the headwaters in northern Minnesota to the Gulf of Mexico in Louisiana.
· The river begins 1,475 feet above sea level.
· The Mississippi passes through ten states: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi and Louisiana.
· The Mississippi--Missouri River system is the world's fourth longest. Only the Nile, Amazon and Yangtze Rivers are longer.
· The Mississippi River drains approximately 40% of the continental United States-all or part of 31 states, and two Canadian provinces, Ontario and Manitoba.
· The total drainage area of the Mississippi River is approximately 1.25 million square miles.
I also found a Mississippi River and a Mississippi Lake southwest of Ottawa
Yeah the Trans-Canada Highway begins here in the east as Route 2, each province gives it a different route number, I forgot. The road signs have a green maple leaf with the route number inset. It's the inter-provincial highway.
Never been south of Ottawa, other then flying in and out of Toronto, so I never drove over the other Mississippi you suggest.
Remains a mystery to me. ::) I hope no one thinks that I think the Mississippi goes to Brazil. :D
There is another Mississippi River, that is a tributary of the Ottawa River. Quite far east of the US Mississippi River. So me thinks SD is playing with our minds...or maybe his ;D ;D ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_River_(Ontario)
Well you know what might possibly be the trouble here is "The Great River Road". You suppose the sign by that stream was an upcoming exit or something? Just found this out on Wikipedia.
"The Great River Road is a collection of state, provincial, federal, and local roads which follow the course of the Mississippi River.
Divided into three main sections, the road consists of the Great River Road, the National Scenic Byway Route, and the Canadian Extensions. The eponymous segment runs on both sides of the river from Louisiana through the state borders of Kentucky/Illinois and Missouri/Iowa, excepting the full length of the road in Arkansas. A five-state section of the road has been designated a National Scenic Byway, running through Arkansas, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The Canadian Extensions begin in Lake Itasca and Bemidji, Minnesota and branch out to Winnipeg, Manitoba and Minaki and Dryden, Ontario.
The over-all logo reads 'Canada to Gulf' "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_River_Road
Possibly ah, Beenthere? Heck man in that area there is water going everywhere, especially right now. :D
So, what you guys think? I guess I can't read signs, even when they are posted by streams. ;)
Further study of road maps,google earth and terraserver lead me to believe that a canoe trip from Winnipeg north to Lake Winnipeg, then south to Lake of The Woods(with a portage or two) then east by way of the Rainy River (with a portage or two) to Lake Superior,south to Duluth and the St. Croix river, which feeds into the Mississippi is indeed very possible.
My apologies for taking this thread off topic. My thoughts and prayers are with the people of North Dakota and western Minnesota faced with a daunting task, and specifically both of my cousins living in Moorhead, across the river(now a lake?) from Fargo.
My apologies to, to anyone suffering out there. That ain't a fun piece of business. We got flooded along our river last spring (not me personally), but it looks bad again this spring. Ice is very thick, thicker than last spring.
badpenny, they never went down the Red River, they went up and went overland to the Mississippi, then down as far as I recall. It's all documented in "Paddle to the Amazon". I think one boy quit and they almost got killed in Central America.