I've never had to advertise before. For 3 years my main customer let me set up on his property, bought logs by the truckload, and had me saw them up for his timber framing business. I got as much of his business as I could handle.
Last winter he got stiffed by two major clients and has no money to buy logs, so now I'm on my own. I've got logs and land, but no business. I have to advertise over a large area because my tiny city is too small to support me with local business.
I decided to become one of Jeff's "Shameless Commerce Links". All I can say is, I'm in awe.
I contacted Jeff 5 days ago to tell him I wanted to do this. He asked me for some information, which I fired back to him ASAP. After that we exchanged a few e-mails as he asked for more details.
Yesterday at noon I received an e-mail from Jeff, sent via my newly created web page, asking me to have a look at it. Awesome! There's not one thing I would want to change. It's simple, elegant, and says exactly what I want potential customers to see. Jeff suggested that in a couple of days we would see if it was showing up on Google.
Couple of days?? SIX HOURS LATER my site was showing up on Google's first page. I'm not talking about searching for my business by name, either. I typed in some keywords about my product, plus my general region.
I don't think people appreciate the power of the Forestry Forum website. Because there is so much daily traffic, with multiple visits from a great many users, it ranks very high on search engines. It doesn't matter that the link to my page is tucked away in the corner of main Forestry Forum page. What matters is that when someone searches for my products and services in my little corner of the world, they are going to find me.
How much? For $180 per year I get a web page, designed by Jeff (or a link to an existing webpage) (who in my opinion does a far better job than a lot of highly paid web developers). I get a separate contact page that keeps my e-mail address out of sight where the spammers can't find it. And I get a really high ranking on Google searches. This took 4 days!
I get first rate advertising when I need it most, and I get to help the Forestry Forum weather the tough times as well. Does it get better than that?
YES, YES, YES another satisfied forum member
woodmills1
I don't understand what you mean?
I do mean this is a great forum.
My son-in-law and I have been playing with Google to see what types of searches bring my page up near the top of the list. Some I'm a little surprised at, some are as I hoped.
One of the interesting ones is when I go looking for Timber-framers in my region. That's a useful search because I cater to timber-framers. Someone who wants a timber-frame built may come across my site and contact me. I can then refer them to one of the timber-framers in this area (who just happens to buy wood from me ;D ). Or they might well say, "Nope, he doesn't build timber-frames", and go on to find someone who does. But there's a chance they'll mention my service to the timber-framer they do select.
When I did this search, I found myself in #3 spot, ahead of a timber-framer that's been in business for years -- and who owns a sawmill. In other words, one of my competitors.
At the end of the day what matters, of course, is how much business I get from this web page. I have high hopes.
Do we get to checkout your site ?? :P
https://forestryforum.com/kootenaysawyer/
Nice looking site. Appealing to the eye and straight-forward, to the point. 8)
Quote from: TheWoodsman on April 26, 2009, 02:41:50 PM
Do we get to checkout your site ?? :P
I was kinda hoping people would use a few clues from my post and then use Google to look for it. ;)
In any case, beenthere's given us the link so I don't need to repeat it.
It's probably just me, but, I typed in Timber Frame British Colombia, and did not find your site in the first 10 pages of Google ???
My search skills are VERY lacking ::) ::) ::) ::) ??? ??? ???
Google is pretty fickle. Being in costa rica you might get total different results then in the states. In fact I would bet on it, but I'm not getting the site in a search right now either. Don't know whats up with that, but I've learned that when it comes to google and search returns, never think you have it figured out.
Tammy gets different results on her computer then I get on mine because she visits different sites then me. Plus, new sites on google will sometimes appear and disappear at random for the first few weeks. I think they call it the sandbox effect or something. You never know how something is going to list until it does.
OK. As a ferinstance, I did this same search earlier, and only got 10 pages to show. This time, it had 19 and maybe more pages to look under. ???
Just trying to understand the search stuff, IF that's possible.
Just for info, I didn't find it in the first 11 pages of Google.
Maybe didn't give it the right stimulus...ah, that must be it in today's world. ;D ;D ;D
When I checked this out, I got highly variable results, depending exactly what I typed in. "Timberframers Kootenays" got me right up near the top of the first page. "Timber framer Kootenays" had me on the second page. Now I'm pages and pages back. Even the name of the business doesn't get me near the front.
Strangely enough, I'm getting links directly to the forestry forum on some of my searches. I'm also starting to show up on Wood-Mizer's site.
My goal was to get hits from people searching in the Kootenay region of BC -- that's a practical area for me to supply.
In any event, it's early days and I'm not too worried.
Dead header broke it. :D
You cant ever get to concerned about what google does as you have no control over it. Time will tell.
Try to search with sawmilling timber frame BC ;)
Davide ;D
One of them google things we aint meant to understand. Now its back and better then it was. Kootenay sawmill brought it up number one for me.
I understand it's all discretionary.
What gets me is, on Craigslist, I can type in a specific word, and get a BUNCH of stuff that is not even remotely related to what I am searching for, and NOT get ANY of what I am searching for. ::) ::) ??? ???
And y'all wonder why I get lost on these computaters ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D
I really like the looks of your website! 8)
Nice site. I like it.
I like it, too :).
Credit for the design goes entirely to Jeff. I sent him some words and phrases that I wanted the search engine to hit on, plus my logo and 3 pictures (figuring he'd pick one of them). Quality of 2 of the pictures was not exactly terrific. I had no idea what he'd come up with, and I figured there'd be a little give and take before we got it "right".
What you see is what he did for me, straight out of the box, no alterations. Where Jeff got the panorama behind the business name, I don't know. Been meaning to ask him. He found a way to highlight my best photo and use the other two effectively.
Can you tell I'm pleased? ;D ;D ;D
PS. I managed to read part of a book on Google before my son-in-law had to return it to the library. It seems that instead of using a few mainframe computers, they use a whole heck-of-a-lot of PC based servers. In fact, they have so many computing centres and they keep adding them so fast, no one can give an accurate count of how many they actually own/lease. I suspect it takes a while for new site rankings to sift through the whole system.
I'm pretty well pleased with this one too
http://www.stonehillhardwoods.com/
Come on Brucer, tell us what you really think. :D :D
Brucer, I agree 100% with what you said. If you have a business, in todays world you are making a mistake if you don't have a website. One of the best ways to get you site up on the search engines is to put it on the Forum. It amazes me that more people arent on the shameless link program but I guess that is less competition for me.
For example, I'm selling cherry and maple to a cabinet shop in MO, Poplar to a company in IN, and I've sold hardwoods to BC. All by people that have found me through the internet.
It truly is a small world anymore.
I think Oakimac was one of the first member sites I built. I think the very first was Paul_H's for Halray Logging, but when Paul sold the company the website wasn't needed any longer.
I see we still have you number one for a hickory and oak search. :)
Quote from: WH_Conley on April 28, 2009, 12:35:12 AM
I'm pretty well pleased with this one too
http://www.stonehillhardwoods.com/
I sure like that one ;). That's one of the sites that convinced me that Jeff would be a good person to go to for this. I have some strong feelings about web design. As it happens, Jeff's designs meet all my personal criteria.
Stumpy's site convinced me that Jeff knew how to tweak google ratings.
Yep, still number one 8)
I sell a lot of Hickory because I think that anyone who searchs for Hickory I pop up because of the business name. I have been working on re-doing the site a little and will be contacting you Jeff in the near future.
Brucer-congradulations and good luck with the business.
I figured I'd bring this back to the top, because ...
Last month I received an e-mail via the web page Jeff built for me. Someone had specifically gone looking for timber-frame related sites in my region and found me :) :)!
Turns out the guy was a salesman for a business publication. He wanted me to buy advertising space in their magazine >:( >:(. They were doing a special on timber-framers.
But ya know, it doesn't matter who was looking. They found me right quick, because aside from some slightly erratic behaviour with Google the first week, my site's been right near the top of the first page whenever you go looking for timber or timber-frame suppliers in my region.
I wasn't expecting a whole lot of business from the site this year. We've been hit hard by the downturn and most of my work has been by word-of-mouth through the local contractor network. But there's been a shakeup in the timber-frame industry here-abouts and a lot of businesses are gone now. When things pick up people are going to have to start looking for new suppliers and my site will be sitting out there to grab them.
Guess who is number one for Tropical hardwood furniture ? And I definitely know that it is due to being linked with The Forestry Forum.
Without a doubt, the money we pay is the best bang for the buck we have.
Just reading and I checked out the website you made(had made), looks grate but there is one little spelling mistake that needs to be fixed, on the left column it says"On-line Conact Form" instead of "Contact". Other than that I was impressed with the site.
Also if your searching from out side the Country of origin, you may want to put the country in as well. British Columbia is a Country on it's own right and a province in Canada. Might make a difference in the search.
Cheers!
Smokey
Quote from: Smokey on February 19, 2010, 01:31:02 PM
Just reading and I checked out the website you made(had made), looks grate but there is one little spelling mistake that needs to be fixed, on the left column it says"On-line Conact Form" instead of "Contact".
It does? Well, if it did, Jeff went and fixed it between your post and this one.
Quote
British Columbia is a Country on it's own right ...
News to me ??? ???.
Quote from: oakiemac on April 29, 2009, 08:53:18 PM
Yep, still number one 8)
I sell a lot of Hickory because I think that anyone who searchs for Hickory I pop up because of the business name. I have been working on re-doing the site a little and will be contacting you Jeff in the near future.
Brucer-congradulations and good luck with the business.
Where and for what application do you sell lots of hickory?
We have a new member helping to support the forum by using the shameless commerce links on the front page of the Forestry Forum.
Thanks to pnyberg and CT Logs To Lumber, LLC (http://www.ctlogs2lumber.com/) :)
I tried to think what I might go looking for:
"portable sawmills connecticut" -- #2 from top on Google.
"lumber sawing services connecticut" -- #6 from top on Google.
Not bad at all. From experience, use the same search words over the next few weeks and see if it changes.
I wonder how many people get past 2 pages of Google when they're searching?
The 1st page is the place to be. :)
Mooseherder, I very often scroll through 2 or 3 pages on a search unless I am looking for a particular site. I also will jump a few pages or go to the last to see how the pages are changing if I haven't found the site I want. Tends to be a lot of crap on the first page as well with sites that take your keywords and incorporate them into their site name. That annoys me a lot. I have started to look at the title and then the address to see if they match, otherwise I end up on sites that just list business addresses and such. Some days google is my friend and some days it is my bane.
This is going off on a bit of a tangent, but there has been discussion about "pages".
I believe Google defaults to 10 items per page. This can be changed.
Click on Settings (upper right) then click on Search Settings. Go down to Google Instant and check the "Do not use Google Instant" radio button. Then go up to Number of Results | Display _____results per page and set the pull-down to 50.
You will now see 50 links instead of just 10 on each "page".
I'm just providing information--not trying to convince anyone they need to do this.
That's cool on the user end, but not of much use for the guy wanting his web link to be seen by as many people as possible. 99% of people are not going to adjust the number of returns per page on a browser. They just don't do it. I don't. I want to see what most everyone else sees.
You see the same thing, you just see more before you have to click on to page 2.
If I am trying to research where a website is listing on a page, I want to see exactly what most everyone else is seeing. I don't want to have to count the entries to figure out if it was on page one or page three of a default setting. :)
Good lookin' web page you done got yourself there, Brucer! What do the ads say-'a business with no sign is a sign of no business'? The trusty ol' World Wide Web is today's sign. When I get the pieces of my little wood milling orchestra assembled my plan is to do some advertising, and I think your post just showed me who to speak with about it. There is so much competition for the business that's out there that one can't afford to NOT advertise. If someone did invent a better mousetrap the world couldn't beat a path to their door because the world doesn't know where that door is located or what goes on behind it. I'm sure you've made the smart move and look forward to hearing news of business that comes your way as a result. Now, go out there and kill something and drag it back home!
The Power of the Forestry Forum's ability to get a member's business listed so fast in google still amazes. This week we did one for member Peter Drouin's Sanbornton Construction who did not have any presence on the web. We gave him an address under www.forestryforum.com and put a simple web page together. I uploaded the page, and listed it under our shameless commerce links. Not two hours later he was coming up on the first page of google for multiple searches.
I won't give you the link, but if you need to find a [lmgtfy]portable sawmill in New Hampshire[/lmgtfy], I bet you can find him. :)
Even a search like: [lmgtfy]wood mizer in nh[/lmgtfy] puts him at the front of the pack in this short of time.
Nice web page.
It's getting close to 3 years now, and my page still shows up near the top of Google with no tweaking. Jeff, I'll be in touch shortly about renewing for another year.
Quote from: Brucer on February 13, 2011, 03:04:37 PM
Nice web page.
It's getting close to 3 years now, and my page still shows up near the top of Google with no tweaking. Jeff, I'll be in touch shortly about renewing for another year.
How do you fair when you use Yahoo as the search engine?
Who uses Yahoo?
Just kidding. I use Yahoo as my homepage.
Basically same results as GOOOOOGle. ;)
In this current age of search engines it is a foolish use of time trying to please any other search engine. Yahoo included. If you do the things you should do to make google happy, then the others will fall in line. If they don't, SO WHAT? The trade off of your time and efforts is simply not worth the return.
Search Engine Market Shares
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2400/SE_MarketShare.jpg)
I recently investigated and discovered that Google in Canada does not give the same results as Google in US.
Whereas a search word in US puts my web site as number 1, in Canada I am number 17. 8)
Doug, Google on your computer will not give you the same return as google on your computer. ;) Same as other search engines. Delete all of your history, cookies, and temp internet files and you will get different results.
A way you can test on how different your returns are is with one of the little icons here in your forum posting box called our "Let be google that for you tags"
(https://forestryforum.com/board/Themes/default/images/bbc/lmgtfy.gif)
Search for something in google the way you usually do, then search for something on google using the the let me google that for you service and see what the difference is.
Google knows your zip code, so it will be biased to that area (which is prolly helpful if searching to have local hits).
Google probably does not know your zipcode, but it knows the I.P. address from which the call for data comes from and what the zipcode may be for that.
Thanks guys. As always in the ways of computers you guys amaze me. I learn something about the business of wood things and other neat stuff everyday. I now know a little more about web pages and who to call. Thanks again for all the info. I will be a calling.
Nice job on the webpage layout Jeff, and congrats Brucer on the site. I did a search on startpage.com (I like them over google, as they do not store personal search data like google does). Came up in the top 20.
Thanks to our newest shameless commerce member terrifictimbersllc!
http://www.terrifictimbers.com/
I really like your site. Well done and best of luck.
Welcome justusone, to the Forestry Forum. :) Tell us a bit about yourself and your interest.
Bump.
I just had a question from a fellow FF member about the web page Jeff built for me, so I figured it was time to bump this back up to the top.
Jeff upgraded the page this year so I could show several more photos of my product.
Here's part of a message I got from my contact page on January 7 this year: "I'm looking to purchase some 1x6 and 1x8 Douglas Fir. I would need it shipped to Vancouver for pickup."
That's a 400 mile trip and shipping would cost almost as much as the lumber. He was happy to pay me extra to dig out the lumber piles, which were under 3' of snow at the time. He wanted to run the wood through a planer and shaper to make mouldings for a new house.
Here's a followup message on March 30: "Just wanted to thank you for all your effort on that order. It turned out great."
The profit on that order alone paid for the web page fee this year :).
In the last few years quite a few people have found me via the web, even though they could have found someone closer just by going out and taking a drive.