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General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: Warbird on April 29, 2009, 10:36:14 AM

Title: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Warbird on April 29, 2009, 10:36:14 AM
So, anybody around here actually had this flu or know someone who has?  How bad is it?  Seems to me like we aren't getting the entire story.  The news this morning said we have had the first flu related death in the US (in Texas). 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: beenthere on April 29, 2009, 10:55:48 AM
Seems they don't want to tell too much, but in WI they are looking closely at anyone who has returned from Mexico.
That is a clue to me.

Border hoppers and illegals come to mind as well as the Mexico vacationers. Those people can spread around this North America pretty fast.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: jeffreythree on April 29, 2009, 11:41:42 AM
They said for most it is milder than the normal flu, but it hits 25-40 year olds the hardest.  They have the strongest immune response and the body destroys its own throat and lungs.  I don't know anybody that has it, but I work all over TX, OK, and AR with customer facing people(ie lots of exposure); so I hope I am not the one bringing it home :-\.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Restoman on April 29, 2009, 02:13:04 PM
I just went to a Mexican taqueria here in Shreveport, all of 10 miles from Texas, okay.  I go in to order and he ask my "pork or steak" yeah right, STEAK.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: ADAMINMO on April 29, 2009, 02:24:21 PM
From my understanding , you can't get it from eating pork . Only from contact with a person that has it or from contact with a pig that is carring the virus. I dont know what the big uproar is all about.  About 36000 people in the US die each year from the regular flu and that dont seem to get the media attention??? Go figure. I guess it is because they dont have a vaccination for it.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Jeff on April 29, 2009, 03:13:47 PM
I think its another case of media hype. There has been no big story lately so they need to create one. Like Adam says, influenza kills thousands and thousands every year.  I had what I guess was the flu severely most of march.  There was days I wished I would die and didn't, so I ain't going to worry about the piggy version.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Modat22 on April 29, 2009, 03:22:50 PM
reason this one has the attention is because there is no natural human immunity to it yet, and it likes the 20 to 40 year old crowd. Probably this strain will cause less problem per infection but the potential number of infections go way up which means more problems.

Thats what I think anyway.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Ron Wenrich on April 29, 2009, 04:43:11 PM
Right now, the only ones that really should be concerned are those in government.  They're the ones that should be getting ready whatever they need as a preparation.  But, politicians love to attract attention and show everyone how good of job they're doing.   I think closing schools and the like is an overreaction for the amount of cases that have cropped up...91 at this time.  The only US death is a 23 month old boy who came is Mexican. 

We had a bout of swine flu back in the '70s.  Back then, the vaccine killed more people than the actual disease.

I think my byline says it all. 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Restoman on April 29, 2009, 04:48:59 PM
So eating pork is okay?  I trust you guys here better than any media outlet. 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: pigman on April 29, 2009, 04:55:20 PM
You cannot get swine flu from eating pork. Back in the eighties when I was in the pig business, it cost be thousands because of the lowered consumption of pork on the false rumor that people could get swine flu from eating pork. I am glad I am not in the business now.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: WH_Conley on April 29, 2009, 05:25:27 PM
Bob, I have an old overgrown field, reckon it would be a good time to buy some piggys and put in it?
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 29, 2009, 05:26:19 PM
Governments are working at making a name change. You can't get the disease from eating pork. I think China and the Philippines are banning NA pork imports and there is no basis. I agree with you guys on the hype. Here in Canada we have a handful of cases, many have fully recovered from very mild cases. None here in New Brunswick and I don't think Maine has any cases either. The NB health authority is giving daily updates.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: David Freed on April 29, 2009, 06:45:59 PM
In every news report I have heard they say you can't get it from eating pork. I don't understand why so many people think you can get it from eating pork. It's the flu, not food poisoning. Nobody has ever caught the flu from eating anything. I agree with Adam and Jeff. The government and media are blowing it way out of proportion.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Raider Bill on April 29, 2009, 06:51:12 PM
I'm putting it to the test, Just ate 2 big thick pork chops with drippin's  milk gravy. LAbel from store said product of mexico.

If you don't hear from me tomorrow Good luck guys ::)
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 29, 2009, 07:03:31 PM
I have a pork chop ready to cook up for tomorrow's dinner.  ;D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Slabs on April 29, 2009, 07:59:59 PM
I just wanna know what our new President/(cabinet) is doing with his "Other" hand.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: moonhill on April 29, 2009, 08:13:45 PM
The one death here in the States was a 2 year old Mexican boy who came here for medical attention. 

Yes, what is the other hand doing? 

Tim
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Ron Wenrich on April 29, 2009, 08:40:01 PM
I heard Neal Boortz say that since you can't call it swine flu, he's going to start to refer to it as the Mexican flu.   :D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Onthesauk on April 29, 2009, 09:59:58 PM
Get "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry.  Very good history of the pandamic  of 1918 and a pretty good history of medical care in the US.  Key thing in my mind is that no one knows how it's going to mutate or what it's going to do.  All speculation.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Brucer on April 30, 2009, 01:06:12 AM
Summarized from various items from CBC news:

It's a never-before-seen strain of influenza, a mix of pig, human and bird viruses — scientifically it's part of the Type A/H1N1 family of influenza viruses. The incubation period of this strain appears to be two to seven days (typical of influenza).

It's impossible to get pig strains of influenza from food.

Roughly 19,000 people travel between Canada and Mexico during an average week in April. There's 19 confirmed cases in Canada as of now, which puts this somewhat into perspective.

The first three cases in British Columbia were visiting Mexico. Two have recovered and the third is on the mend. No hospital stays required. Three new cases have surfaced in BC. Two were visitors to Mexico, the third was in contact with one of the other cases. All are on the mend.

The Texas death, as already mentioned here, was a Mexican young boy who was visiting in the US with his family. No other family members show symptoms as of today. Health officials in Texas have pointed out (quite rightly) that anyone in the US who becomes severely ill will likely be sent to a major hospital. This will give the incorrect impression that the worst cases are occurring in cities.

Finally, here's a couple of CBC links that you might find interesting. First, a regularly updated timeline, with the most recent information first.
  http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/04/29/f-flu-timeline.html (http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/04/29/f-flu-timeline.html)
Next, a world map that pinpoints the number of cases in each region.
 http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/27/f-swine-flu-map.html (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/04/27/f-swine-flu-map.html)

A few personal comments ...

The big concern is that there is no natural immunity in the population, so it could affect a lot of people in a very sort time. Real influenza (not one of those cold-like bugs we call the "flu") pretty much knocks you flat for a week to 10 days. If the disease spreads rapidly, you could have large segments of the population down and out for a week, which can disrupt business, schools, health care, transportation, etc.

People dumb enough to try to stay active in spite of being sick may find themselves hospitalized with pneumonia -- or dead.

Flu shots aren't going to do any good because there's no vaccine for this strain. You can't make a vaccine if you haven't encountered the virus before. Recent findings suggest that anti-viral drugs become ineffective very quickly if they are used too often (e.g., Tamiflu). So if this turns out to be a mild flu, best to save the high-powered drugs in case something really deadly comes along.

I think health and government authorities are being prudent right now. Keep a close watch on the situation, be prepared to take drastic measures in a hurry, but don't panic.

As for the media ... there's a fine line between keeping the public informed and creating a "story".
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: ely on April 30, 2009, 01:11:44 AM
so much for the pig roast.huh ;D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: StorminN on April 30, 2009, 03:52:36 AM
My girlfriend and I were just in southern Mexico for 16 days, and flew home last Tuesday... through the Mexico City airport, where we had a couple of hour layover. We were then on a plane for four hours, with 200 people from Mexico City, on a flight to Phoenix. So far, we have no symptoms. First incubation period I heard was 3-5 days, then yesterday someone said 5-10 days. We're on day eight.

Last Tuesday, no one in Mexico City airport was talking about flu... no signs, no one wearing masks, no nothing. I heard that all changed by Friday.

My Dad lives in southern Mexico (Chiapas), he retired down there 13 years ago or so. He is a ways (20+ hour bus ride?) from Mexico City, but I've been talking to him the past few days and he says where he is, all the schools are closed, all public and municipal buildings are closed, churches are closed, people are watching masses on TV instead... soccer games are just the teams playing, no fans in the stands at all. He says anyone that works with the public in his town... any sort of store or anything, they are all wearing masks. The closest reported cases to him are now four people in Tuxtla, a city about an hour away from him. He said in Mexico City, they have even closed all the restaurants, the streets are pretty deserted. This is in a city of 22 million+ people (New York City is about 8 million+, by comparison)... pretty crazy.

-N.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Faron on April 30, 2009, 06:41:46 AM
Quote from: ely on April 30, 2009, 01:11:44 AM
so much for the pig roast.huh ;D

Why?
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: DanG on April 30, 2009, 06:45:01 AM
I wonder how many of the cases have actually been determined to be swine flu, or are they just assuming that everybody who gets sick has it?  Maybe they have salmonella from eating Florida tomatoes or peanut butter. ::)
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Ironmower on April 30, 2009, 06:48:47 AM
Like pop used too say "what don't kill ya, will make you stronger" I have enough too worry about already ;)
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: John Woodworth on April 30, 2009, 10:45:51 AM
Just what are the general symtoms?
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: VT on April 30, 2009, 11:58:17 AM
http://www.narconews.com/Issue57/article3512.html
Small bit of info
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: pappy19 on April 30, 2009, 01:05:18 PM
My son, AJ, just got back to Idaho from being in Cabo, and he has the swine flu. He is in bed at home now and not feeling too good. Your prayers would be appreciated. Thanks-

Pappy
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Brucer on April 30, 2009, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: DanG on April 30, 2009, 06:45:01 AM
I wonder how many of the cases have actually been determined to be swine flu, or are they just assuming that everybody who gets sick has it?  Maybe they have salmonella from eating Florida tomatoes or peanut butter. ::)

The World Health Organization is only reporting numbers that have been confirmed, in the lab, to be H1N1-A. Their numbers for number of cases and number of deaths are considerably lower than the numbers reported by the Mexican government.

To balance this, their are a lot of samples from Mexico to be tested. I don't know if they are able to test for it themselves yet -- the first suspected cases were tested in a lab in Winnipeg (Canada).

Quote from: John Woodworth on April 30, 2009, 10:45:51 AM
Just what are the general symtoms?

Pretty much the same as for influenza in general. Some or all of the following ...
- comes on suddenly.
- high fever, lasting 3 to 4 days.
- shaking chills.
- body aches.
- muscle pain.
- headache.
- pain when you move your eyes.
- fatigue.
- weakness.
- runny nose.
- H1N1-A is reported to have a higher than usual incidence of diarrhea.
- typically lasts 7 to 10 days.

Conventional at-home treatment.
- Rest, as much as you can. Don't try to get active too soon.
- Plenty of extra fluids. Fever and diarrhea suck the moisture out of you.
- Avoid sugared drinks. Sugar depresses your immune system.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Adam_MA on April 30, 2009, 03:21:05 PM
Quote from: pappy19 on April 30, 2009, 01:05:18 PM
My son, AJ, just got back to Idaho from being in Cabo, and he has the swine flu. He is in bed at home now and not feeling too good. Your prayers would be appreciated. Thanks-

Pappy

You have my thoughts and prayers for a fast recovery!
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: isawlogs on April 30, 2009, 05:52:52 PM
   They have dropped calling it the swine flue here , they are now calling it simply the  A-H1N1 flue . Seams the porc market was taking a beating .


Why was it called the swine flueto begin with  ::) ??? ???
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: SwampDonkey on April 30, 2009, 06:41:28 PM
They confirmed today that the disease has never been found in pigs, only in humans. So wouldn't ya just wonder who started that name?
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: CLL on April 30, 2009, 07:01:06 PM
I don't understand the CHICKEN LITTLE affect, and if that isn't enough the Vice President goes on TV today and does his best to fuel it. DUMMY!!! Basically the white house said then he had bad information. If you don't have good information don't offer advice on national tv.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Part_Timer on April 30, 2009, 07:28:06 PM
I'm scared to death of it.  I think I'll take a 6 month vacation from work, go to the farm and build a cabin by myself so I can't get it.  ;) 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Ron Wenrich on April 30, 2009, 08:02:22 PM
I heard a doctor give the explanation of why you should be concerned.  It seems that the pandemic in 1918 started with a similar type of bacteria, and it began in early spring.  Then, in the summer it died down.  When it mutated and came back in the fall, it wiped out large amounts of the population. They're afraid this one might do the same.

Things to remember is that guys were coming back from trench warfare in Europe, and there were not nearly the amount of medical advances.  It was said that a guy would have a tickle in his throat in the morning and be dead by nightfall.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: StorminN on April 30, 2009, 08:40:33 PM
I think the name "swine flu" has to do with this... pig farm link (http://www.grist.org/article/2009-04-25-swine-flu-smithfield/)... authorities think H1N1 started with flies breeding in the pig crappola lagoons next to the factory pig farms (owned by Smithfield Foods) in Perote, Veracruz, Mexico.

From the link:
According to residents, the company denied responsibility for the outbreak and attributed the cases to "flu." However, a municipal health official stated that preliminary investigations indicated that the disease vector was a type of fly that reproduces in pig waste and that the outbreak was linked to the pig farms. It was unclear whether health officials had identified a suspected pathogen responsible for this outbreak.

-N.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: florida on April 30, 2009, 09:37:53 PM
36,000 people die every year in the USA from flu, 250,000 world wide. We need to keep some perspective on this. Every 12 seconds some dies from malaria, 2,700,000 a year. Remember Avian flu? No one in the USA died from it. Lawsuits put the flu vaccine manufacturers out of business in America so that now only one company is left to produce the annual vaccine.  They can only produce 25 million doses a year and have to start producing the vaccine the year before without knowing what strain of flu they need to protect against. The shot is probably better than nothing but you'd better get there early! 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Dana on May 01, 2009, 06:22:41 AM
Pappy19 If you haven't done so yet you should take him to the hospital to be looked at. At least that is what the media says the recommendation is. I hope he is doing better.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: donny hochstetler on May 01, 2009, 09:01:37 AM
quiet down guys ,our OBAMA can and will fix it . 8) 8) :D :D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Warbird on May 01, 2009, 10:42:11 AM
Given that there are no drugs that treat this and all they can do for you is make sure you don't get too dehydrated, I wonder if the reason they want folks to go to the hospitals is just so they can track numbers?
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: OneWithWood on May 01, 2009, 10:57:26 AM
Quote from: donny hochstetler on May 01, 2009, 09:01:37 AM
quiet down guys ,our OBAMA can and will fix it . 8) 8) :D :D

Let's keep the political pot shots in the restricted area.  These comments do nothing to further a discussion that could contain meaningful information.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: DanG on May 01, 2009, 01:20:06 PM
I agree, OWW!

WB, I'm sure that tracking has something to do with it, but people with severe dehydration frequently need IV fluids.  The flu can prevent you from taking enough fluids by mouth.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Warbird on May 01, 2009, 08:26:54 PM
Agreed, OWW.  DanG, I've only been that dehydrated once in my life and it wasn't any fun.  It is odd that this flu apparently hits 20 - 40 year olds harder than everyone else.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: pigman on May 01, 2009, 11:30:52 PM
Me thinks this strain of flu is similar enough to a flu that was around over 40 years ago that us Ol'farts have some immnuity. 8)   :-\
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: tcsmpsi on May 02, 2009, 08:13:58 AM
Perhaps even old swine raisers?   :D

Well, if years of being continually and intimately subjected to swine fecal matter helps, I'll be good to go.

On another note, I do not understand the full disclosure of the Swine Flue scare.  Tens of thousands, in this country, die every year of some type of flue virus.  I'm certain the numbers in other countries are similarly reflective. 

I can very easily imagine the numbers of deaths annually in a city and area as densely populated as Mexico City. 
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Warbird on May 02, 2009, 08:29:22 PM
I just got back from a church retreat.  While there, got to talking to the Elders about all of this.  One of them is 80 years old and another one has a doctorate in Biology.  Between all of us, we came to the conclusion that most of this is just hype.  We'll see...
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Paul_H on May 02, 2009, 11:47:42 PM
My eldest daughter called to tell us they dicovered a cure.It's an oinkment.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: DanG on May 03, 2009, 12:15:52 AM
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Warbird on May 03, 2009, 12:25:06 AM
LOL
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Brucer on May 03, 2009, 02:57:19 AM
The virus has genes from human, pig, and avian flu viruses. And it seems that pigs can get this version from humans.

A farm worker in Alberta returned from a trip to Mexico and came down with the virus. Subsequently 220 pigs (about 10% of the farm population) became ill. And yes, it's been confirmed that it's the same virus.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/02/swineflu-ns-cases789.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/05/02/swineflu-ns-cases789.html)

Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: OneWithWood on May 04, 2009, 01:22:12 PM
Pigman I think you are on to something.
On the way to work this morning I heard a piece on H1N1-A.  According to the reporter this is not a totally new strain of flu. H1N1-A was fairly prevalent in the 70s and 80s.  Hence many of us seasoned life-veterans carry some immunity or at least anti bodies against this strain.  WHO reported the strain contained and all but erradicated by the end of the 80s.  Unfortunately an accident in a chinese lab released the strain back into the environment.
I think it has been a bit over hyped but the exercise in mobilizing a response will bear fruit should something cut loose this fall. 
This is a good test of the mechanisms put in place late in 2008.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Bibbyman on May 07, 2009, 03:06:21 PM
Son Chris is an RN working in a KC hospital.  Just got an e-mail from him saying that they are treating everyone coming in with flu-like symptoms like it may be swine flu.  Unfortunately,  the government is preventing them from getting any more mask – saying they are using too many.  He say the masks are only good for 5 exposures so if you have to attend to a patent that requires that you use a mask, you can run through quite a few of them.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Gary_C on May 07, 2009, 03:08:49 PM
I just heard last night that the MN governor already has a bill on his desk that will allow the government to take anyone, by force if necessary to isolation if they feel your health is threatining the public health.

Hype indeed.  ::)
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: StorminN on May 08, 2009, 01:16:32 PM
Talked to my Dad yesterday... as I said earlier in this thread, he lives in southern Mexico, in the mountains of Chiapas. He said the country has been basically closed since April 29th or so... the government ordered all shops, businesses, everything closed except hospitals, doctors, and grocery stores... so everyone has been holed up at home. The government had said people could get back to work on May 6th, but some schools and such aren't open yet, so lots of people are at home until Monday, when all the schools will be open and things will get back to "normal".

Despite this quarantine, 10 people in my Dad's town have come down with the H1N1 flu... DURING the quarantine... one older woman is hospitalized, the other nine are non-life-threatening cases. My Dad thinks it's going to be interesting next week when everyone starts socializing again, going to work, school, etc. The weather is getting warmer down there, though... so it could turn out to be nothing.

He said the big panic was that Mexico initially thought they had more deaths... like 180... attributed to the H1N1, and that's what they reported to the WHO, which is what started the hype. With further testing, it's turned out that many of those initial deaths were actually cases with older strains of flu.

A doctor friend of mine here said the real test will be next winter, since this hit at the very end of flu season here. Someone else pointed out that it's been found in New Zealand, and they are just coming into winter down there, so we may see some spread in the southern hemisphere during their winter.

-Norm.
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 08, 2009, 06:57:36 PM
I was talking to the girls in the barber shop, and no swine flu is keeping them from Mexico they said.  ;D :D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: DanG on May 09, 2009, 12:29:33 AM
GIRLS in the barber shop?!?  ???
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Radar67 on May 09, 2009, 12:34:55 AM
He meant the salon DanG.  ;)  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: SwampDonkey on May 09, 2009, 04:14:29 AM
Yup, lady barbers, barber's post outside the door and all.  Call it a salon if you want, to me it's barbers. Even us baldies need a trim now and then. ;D
Title: Re: Swine flu (aka H1N1)
Post by: Bibbyman on May 09, 2009, 06:05:04 AM
It's the end of the school year and the yellow Blue Bird buses are all up and down the highway hauling kids to "field trips".  One popular place is the state capitol building.  But not this spring.  I hear they have closed it off to school children due to the swine flu deal.