I searched a bit on the forum and there are a few topics about the LT-15 diesel but I was wondering if anyone has one that they have put considerable use on?
Do they seem hard to start in the colder weather? I know some diesels are a bear to start in the winter but I don't know if the smaller ones are the same?
I know they are 10hp yanmars now for the diesel and i want to compare it to the 25hp gas that WM is offering, they are pretty much the same price and I'm a fan of diesel engines over gas, but being such a small engine I'm wondering which would go better for the LT-15?
Even though the diesel has more torque, do you think that the extra 15hp of the gas would make up for that?
I'm interested in the difference between the two as far as which would saw larger logs quicker and bog down less?
I'm not really interested in the fuel difference or price difference between fuels, I wouldn't be doing enough sawing on a LT-15 for that to make enough of a difference anyways.
Hope someone with some experience with both will be able to comment but any experience is appreciated. I think I will be buying one hopefully before winter and have done quite a bit of homework on them, just don't know too much about the different engines.
Thanks in advance. ;D
I've got the G-15, and am quite happy with it...I have been told by a couple of people that the diesel is the bees knees...said it sips fuel, and cuts steady all day with no issues...
If I ever repower this mill I'll probably go with a diesel....
On my B20 TK I switched from a 27 hp Kohler to a 28 hp Isuzu diesel which cuts way faster and uses 1/2 the fuel. I think I'd have to give the edge to a 25hp gas over a 10 hp diesel, I'd think a 18 to 20 hp diesel should compare well. Steve
I'm surprised they don't offer a bit larger diesel? I wonder if its because of weight on the smaller frame? I'd be interested to know what the production estimates are for the two, I don't think its listed on the website but even if it was I know there are too many variables to take into account to use that as a great estimate.....I'll try emailing WM and see what info I get in return.
they do..there should be a 20hp watercooled diesel avail for the LT15. I used one last year at Indi. Buckets of torque.
DTR
There is a 19 hp Diesel on the LT15 but it will not meet US emission standards. They are sold international.
The Authorized sales center in Maine sells many LT15 Diesel maybe give them a call. We have a few units sold here and never had a complaint on cold starts etc. They are easy on fuel. A little noise a little vibration but not a big deal. Lots of variables on production.
Fuel rating per hour G15 .5 G25 .9 D 10 .2
The Diesel is 19 lbs lighter than the G25
The 25 hp also has a 5 gal fuel tank external mounted with water bottle.
The Deisel has a small tank on the engine
Marty
Sawmill and Woodlot magazine did a review of the LT 15 with the 10hp yanmar back in 2007 I think. A fella that teaches a forestry type training program for school students did extensive cutting with it and wrote a fine review. I hear it is the cat's meow. I bet it will outcut my 10 hp gas all day. Click on the sponsor link at left and email them and they may possibly have a back issue.
Don
Don K, good suggestion, I did a search on the S & W mag website and up came a link to a pdf of that article. Should be here;
http://sawmillmag.com/results.php?cx=partner-pub-5872599457555391%3A3hnit1-5sml&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=LT15+diesel&sa=Search#1040
I just read the sawmill and woodlot article on the LT-15 and it sounded good, seems like it doesn't bog down too much and only needs slow feeding on the really large logs. I'm wondering how it compares to the 25hp gas in that respect. Too bad they didn't have a chance to run it in the cold....
I emailed WM and asked them as well, hopefully I'll hear from them Monday.
Too bad that 19hp diesel isn't available in the U.S......I bet that wouldn't bog down on anything you could fit on the mill with a sharp blade....
Wish I was planning on keeping it in one place, the electric motor sounds like a nice option too....
The only thing I'm half way qualified to comment on is the starting
a yanmar in cold weather... Our "Yan" deere tractor starts first try
at around 15 and above.... Colder than that I don't start so that's
been a non issue.... It has a intake heater but it's not really required.
Do you think this engine would have a heater/glow plugs? I was thinking it wouldn't. and yes, i would be stupid enough to be out there in 15 degrees.... :D :D
My 28 hp Isuze pops right off at 10 above with glow plugs, if they don't work it won't start at 70 above. It saws twice as fast as the Kohler 27 hp I had before but I can still bog it if pushed hard enough. Steve
I talked to Ross,on the other side of town,the WM dealer in Maine and he sells very few gas motors with that sawmill.I could not remember what size he mentioned until Marty confirmed it.Must come with glow plugs.
With the torque a diesel puts out, I wouldn't be afraid to guess that the diesel would cut as good or even better than the 25 gas. Cheaper to run too. I can use a coupla tanks on a heavy day of big logs on my 15 gas. The diesel would probably use half that. Wish I could say from experience.
Don
Thanks for all the posts guys, I'll also give the dealer in Maine a call and see if I could find some people who run a diesel from them when I get around to it.
For now I'm leaning towards the diesel...
MartyParsons, thanks for those specs on the fuel and weight, I know I said the fuel difference would be insignificant but that really is a huge difference, more than I thought!
Also guys thanks for the links and all the other info everyone has posted, I certainly take into account all your opinions knowing you all have plenty of experience! Hopefully I'll end up getting the diesel LT-15 before winter and I'll be able to post what I think about it.
I heard back from WM today and here is what they had to say.....
Matt,
Thank you for your interest in Wood-Mizer Products. Since the LT15 is not a production mill, we do not have any information concerning production. However, our catalog states it will saw 'up to' 175 board feet per hour, depending on size and length of log, species, and operator efficiency among others. The 10 hp Yanmar diesel is $1,082.00 more ($6,982.00 total) than the 15 hp Kohler gas, and the same price as the 25 hp Kohler gas. It would be equivalant to a 20 hp gas. Our website: www.woodmizer.com lists a specification sheet on our sawmills, which includes information on most of our engines. When you have an opportunity, please call me for more detailed information.
In case your interested in my email to him, this is what I wrote (it's rather long)
Hello,
I have been researching as much as I can over the last year or so trying to make a decision on which mill to buy. I am planning on buying a mill before winter time and my final decisions came down to either your LT-15 or the Timberking 1220. I am planning on using the mill for simple hobby work and small timberframing projects, and if I catch the "bug" would possibly upgrade, but that is too far down the road!
I have some questions about the diesel engine available for the LT-15. I have decided that whichever mill I go with I will want the largest power option available. I prefer diesel engines to gas for they're reliability, longevity, ease of maintenance and repair (more comfortable working on diesel engines than gas) as well as fuel efficiency, although on an engine as small as these I am not concerned with fuel efficiency as I do not believe it will be enough of a difference to choose one over the other.
Could you tell me some more about the 10hp diesel versus the 25hp gas engines you offer? I have looked for hours online and on forums and can't seem to find much on the diesel as far as production goes. Everyone who has the 25hp gas engine is happy with it and glad they bought the larger engine, as I'm sure I would be. I know diesels typically put out more torque than gas however, I can't see a 10hp diesel putting out more torque than a 25hp gas? I am looking for the pro's and con's of each, which engine would outperform the other in larger wood of the same species? Which one would tend to bog down more and give less consistent sawing rates? Has the diesel had problems starting in the cold like many do? I have never had a small diesel like that. I want to know which engine would be better for me, I live in New England and will be sawing through the winter. I understand the price is the same so that makes the decision even harder! I would love the diesel engine over the gas however, if the gas will outperform it and start easier then I would definately go that route. Do you have any production rates to compare the two? Like I said I would like to know which would be better for the larger logs as far as bogging down (obviously I expect to have to slow down with either on large cuts)
Thank you so much for your info, I look forward to seeing what you have to say about all my questions. Please let me know if you need any more info from me as far as which would fit my needs better. I have read a lot about your customer service and that is why I'm leaning towards WM.
Sorry for the long email, I prefer to call but am out to sea at this time with work.
I still welcome anyone else's comments!!!!!!! ;D
I do not this there is a heater on the D10. Or Glow plugs.
Rosss in Maine can tell you anything you need to know about the D 10 he sells many of these units.
This just threw a wrench in the decision....I emailed Timberking just for the heck of it to see if they offered a diesel with the 1220 (didn't think they did) and this is what he said...
...Yes it would be a Ruggerini 19HP motor and a $1,000 upgrade charge.
I have never heard of "Ruggerini", have any of you? I didn't find much info on google but just did a quick search....
I think a 19hp diesel would be considerably different than a 10hp diesel.
Never heard of it...
Have heard of Yanmar.... OEM on Deere,Takeuchi, Komatsu, and of
course Woodmizer products. Well respected in the Marine world
as reliable, fuel sipping engines...
Suppose you could swap something else on there if it died but
I hate working on things that are supposed to work for me...
I found this tidbit of info on Ruggerini
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_11_65/ai_58062890/
Says they are distributed by Deutz Corp. in North America. I know several folks that swear by air cooled diesel deutz generator engines. I wouldn't think Deutz would tarnish a good reputation with a poorly made product.
well i thought i would chime in on this since i'm in the process of designing my own mill based on an 18hp yanmar diesel. at the current time the diesel engine is in use on a small ym180 yanmar tractor with 810 hrs on it. in my experience with the engine it has plenty of power to run a 60" 3 bladed mower cutting 8 to 10" tall grass along with a 60" roto-tiller 4" in the ground i know this doesnt compare to cutting logs but i'm sold on yanmar diesels engines the only trouble i've had with this engine in 3 years of use has been with the return fuel lines causing the engine to starve loss of power and seemed to over heat. cost me $2.54 for new fuel line at napa.
we also use 8N ford which is rated 21 hp and the yanmar uses 1/4 of the fuel doing the same jobs. far cold starting since i've owned the yanmar it hasnt been that cold but it starts right off at around 20 degs. thou i do use fuel stabilizer below 40 degs
blame
Piston,
Some info on productivity of a LT-15. Mine is 15 HP Kohler gas. I have sawn over 30,000 BF on the little mill, and I have averaged 108 BF/hour to date. I have kept very good records on everything that I have sawn. This production is 95% 4/4 hardwood, primarily black walnut, red oak, and yellow poplar. Of course, cutting 8/4 will yield much better production in board feet.
The 108 BF/hour is a combo of me working alone and sometimes with a helper, but predominately me working alone. This production is actual hours running the mill and does not include logging, skidding, log prep (cleaning/washing, etc), stacking/stickering, etc. It is board foot production divided by actual sawmill run hours. Clearly, with all the associated tasks involved with sawing, it is very unusual (and exhausting) to actually run the mill for a full 8 hours in a day without a helper (off-bearer).
My best day ever was with Dodgyloner and his Dad (2 off-bearers!!) cutting large pine logs for siding and flooring. The pine was cut to 7/8" rough and most of it was 12" wide by 10 feet long. That record was 1550 board feet in a day. Cutting 4/4 (7/8" actually) makes this an outstanding day on such a non-production mill.
Alone, and with the logs skidded up and ready to saw, I can saw and sticker about 500 - 600 board feet of 4/4 in a day. At the end of the day, my butt log is dragging :).
I believe with the 25 HP gas, or a diesel, you can expect to exceed this production, but I would not expect that production to be more that 15% to 20% higher max since the blade is in the wood probably only half the time when you are sawing alone. The rest of the time you are humping either logs or boards or moving sawdust.
Remember these figures are for a 15 HP gas generally sawing 4/4 hardwood (95% of the time). With 8/4 pine, you can do a good bit better.
Also let me say that this is a LT-15 without a bed extension, so I can only cut 10.5 foot logs (I focus on hardwood for furniture). With a bed extentsion cutting 16' logs (or longer with more bed extentsions), you could do better than what I have experienced. DonK might be able to give you some better data cutting 16' logs and also productivity on 8/4 pine on the 15 HP gas. Dodgyloner has the 25 HP gas, so maybe he can chime in as well.
Quote from: fishpharmer on May 21, 2009, 03:22:55 AM
I found this tidbit of info on Ruggerini
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_11_65/ai_58062890/
Says they are distributed by Deutz Corp. in North America. I know several folks that swear by air cooled diesel deutz generator engines. I wouldn't think Deutz would tarnish a good reputation with a poorly made product.
And that being 1999, found this since.
http://www.powertechengines.com/Lombardini.html
Indicates Mark IV bought out Lombardini, and Mark IV was bought by Kohler (Ruggerini engines are referenced as 'older' engines).
..and the beat goes on... :) :)
Danny has some pretty accurate numbers. I don't keep detailed records but I remember a few days sawing fresh SYP 16' into 1X 12's getting over 1000 bdft mostly by myself with some help from my stepson after he got home from school. Butt was dragging. All depends on the quality of the logs on the mill.
Don
Thought I would ask in this thread instead of starting a new one. I'm considering the gas/diesel option as well. My big question is not how much power or fuel is used. The big question is reliability. With today's lousy gas, and the diesel emision standards, which one is more reliable?
Diesel is the way to go with a lt15 . No complaints with mine. Cold weather has not been an issue. It always starts. Super easy on fuel.
I'm a new saw owner. I have an LT-15 wide with the 18 hp diesel. The power is just fine and so far never been an issue. The engine really sips the fuel too. 2 gallons of diesel lasts about 5 hours of run time. I have no hydraulics so almost everything is done manually other than loading (most of the time) so the engine has some idle time. It started in single digit temps as well.
Typically diesels will out last their gasoline counterparts due to the lower rpms. That said I believe that the gas and Diesel engines run at 3600 rpms. I can't tell you about the longevity.
I have the 3 phase electric you can't even slow the thing even if you tried even using the whole blade in a giant log.thankful to have 3 phase at our location,isn't option forum most I know.
Matt, I would stick with the diesel option as a mill in intermittent use will eventually have problems with the poor gasoline that has been thrust upon us. As mentioned theirs nothing that can touch electric if its possible to take that option. I have a three phase Baldor 15 hp. on my bandmill it runs the band and hydraulic pump and barely gets warm to the touch. Have you considered stepping up to a hydraulic mill with creature comforts, their a spoiler ?? Frank C.