Now that I've puchased a WM super hydraulic instead of a mobile dimension mill, the need for an edger becomes a topic to be explored. Those of you with WM experience please share your thoughts.
The Miser is a rather good edger once you learn how to handle your unedged flitches. There's also an obnoxious oppurtunty to saw into your dogs while edging on the mill. Don't ask how I know.
You have to get the bark off or you will have a bug panacea. Bark attracts beetles because of the sugars in the inner bark, at least down here in the sunny South. I will not leave any bark on any of my lumber. So, edging to remove bark is a must.
Diggs,to start off edge on the mill especially if you work alone.What we do is put the lift arms horizontal put the boards that need edging on the arms when we complete cutting the cant throw them up and edge.Sometimes it helps with one or two boards to have a clamper like a four foot 3x3 to put between the clamp and boards.Frank C.
Now I'm not saying that an edger wouldn't be nice. I'm just saying that you can edge on your mill!
Like bandmiller2 said, put all of your unedged boards on the lift arms and when your cant gets down to 4-6 inches, use the cant to back your boards. Put them all up on edge between the clamp and the cant.
I have found that putting the narrowest board next to the cant and the widest one out at the clamp. Then, as the edge of a board cleans up, turn it over and when you get down to the width that you want, remove and stack the board. Continue on like that until your narrowest board is edged.
Chuck
If you know you are going to have a lot of edging to do stack them to the side and do a large batch at a time, once you get the hang of it edging on the mill it is fast and painless if you keep your fingers out of the way. After each cut pull out the finished boards and flip those that need flipped, and when you get down to the last few boards lay one or two down flat and clamp it to the boards to hold them tight and straight. No real need for an edger unless you are going for a stationary production setup. The added cost of towing a second trailer to the work site would not justify the amount of use that it would get.
I think Backwoods hit the nail on the head there. If you're gonna saw for production you need an edger. Sawing for yourself or mobile you don't
When edging on a WM as above (less the cant) with an assortment of widths, do you take precautions to keep the edge square? With the dogs? set below the narrowest board I get deflection on the top of the widest boards which leaves a none square edge. Since I trim them to exact final width on a table saw before planeing it doesn't matter much but it bothers me to put a square on the board and see a none square edge. Thoughs anyone? (I think this is on topic)
Thanks,
BAR
I try to keep things square, but I don't loose sleep over things not being square.
I figure for woodworking, the boards will all need cleaned up, and if it's for siding, then it's "good enough" as is.
Framing material, I fuss with it a bit more, but the thicker flitches make it slightly easier.
What he said. Your manufacturing rough lumber. Do as best you can and it will be fine. For me, I've found that turning the bark side toward the dogs makes it easyer to stand it up and stack more flitches. I then close the clamp and push every thing up tight, open back up a little and give it a quick shift by hand to straighten it up a little more, reclamp and saw.
I don't know if i can make this clear or not , but here goes...On my mill the dogs have a little tooth that sticks out to bite the cant, this tends to push the boards that are being edged out of square...so i have been putting a 2x3 next to it and let the tooth stick over the top of that then squeeze the daylights out of it ....seems to keep the boards to be edged from getting pushed out of plumb as bad.....But truth be know I HATE edging on the mill....I went to an auction Saterday where there were suposed to be a woodmizer edger......It sold before the auction started. :( I didn't stay long...Tim
I hate edging on the mill too. I sure wish I could put edger blades that could somehow lift out of my saw frame for edging! :-) (btw, it would have to be auto feed too)
I have a Woodmizer edger and it is a work horse! If I am cutting a big order I will saw for a day and edge the flitches the next morning. I sometimes edge on the mill,the lumber comes out looking really good on the mill too.If cash is not an issue and you cut for production........get the edger. I make as much with my edger ....if not more than my sawmill. Good luck ....and good sawing!
My guess is... about the second or third time you try to edge on your WM... clamp the flitches, get the square out, check, unclamp and try and make them square, walk back and forth... you're going to wish you bought a MD instead... so now it's time to buy a separate edger.
-N.
after watching a MD run at Sawlex, I don't think i'll ever wish I had one: very, very, slow
Dan_shade...The MD was being run by a tech and not a sawyer and didnt have much saw time. The guy tailing was Frank Pender and that is what he said. Frank Didnt want to run the saw beacuse he wasnt going to be a every show and wanted to let the new guy do it.
Thanks Alot Mr Mom
Quote from: Dan_Shade on July 13, 2009, 05:52:45 AM
after watching a MD run at Sawlex, I don't think i'll ever wish I had one: very, very, slow
There must have been something weird going on... because with one decent operator, an MD will beat the pants off even an LT70... the bigger the logs, the better... thousands of board feet in a day.
-N.
all I know is what I saw. they finished dead last.
Quote from: Dan_Shade on July 13, 2009, 12:56:17 PMall I know is what I saw. they finished dead last.
I'm curious, Dan - because I wasn't at Sawlex... did you watch the MD run, and saw it running "very, very slow"... or did you just see that the MD mill was there, and then saw the posted results later?
I, too heard that they had a non-sawyer operator... what I heard was that he didn't know how to calibrate the horizontal scale on the saw with the 12-tooth blade (it's a thinner kerf), so every board he cut was the wrong thickness, which made every board get scaled wrong, which effected their results. It's a shame they didn't have a trained team to compete there.
For an example of what a MD can do, here's a video below of my 38-year old MD127 mill, cutting and edging 1x8 cedar in one pass at 43fpm. I've yet to find a band mill (used or otherwise) that can mill boards at this speed, with one operator, for $6k (what I paid for my used MD). If you know of one, let me know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4gsbrrkCy4
-Norm.
I was there, they finished dead last.
It sure didn't put on a very good show. The company should have trained the operator elsewhere if that was the problem. I didn't leave the show with a good impression.
Quote from: Dan_Shade on July 13, 2009, 08:04:38 PMThe company should have trained the operator elsewhere if that was the problem.
Agreed.
I guess we're getting pretty off-thread here, but I experienced the same sort of thing at a logging show here this past spring... there were two WM's there... the official one with the orange WM tent was being run by a guy that had never run one before, and the other WM was run by a local sawyer. I've got zero experience on a WM, but know I definitely could have done better than the newbie, and maybe better than the other guy, too. Same thing, I left not impressed at all.
Makes you wonder why companies bother to do demos and shows, if they're going to have newbies running their machines and leaving people with bad impressions...
-N.
Thanks for the video....esp thanks for it being short enough for me to down load on dial up. Most of the time I just pass on taking the time because they are too long. Tim
Quote from: Chuck White on July 12, 2009, 06:56:19 AM
Like bandmiller2 said, put all of your unedged boards on the lift arms and when your cant gets down to 4-6 inches, use the cant to back your boards. Put them all up on edge between the clamp and the cant.
Chuck
Using a cant that is shorter then your narrowest board will be helps to stiffen the boards to be edged by giving the saw something solid to pull against the full length of the cut, keeping the cut square. I keep my clamp and dogs just below the cut line when not using a cant for support, and always double clamp, close up tight release and clamp again. Another thing to keep in mind is remove the edgings before you unclamp to remove and flip boards, this will keep the little pieces from getting between the boards that are being clamped up, as well as make removing the edgings by the handful much easier.
I will be mostly sawing alone. The WM was a local find at a fair price which included a DH 4000 kiln, sharpening equipment, 100+ bands, and spare parts. I don't plan on moving the mill from my own property. The edger thought was to simplify board handling and reduce waste if the expense would have a decent ROI. Most of the logs will be 20" to 24" SYP, with hardwood thinnings of oak, maple, and sweet gum. I have found a WM edger and with that I would still only have $20K invested.
Gday
Good news on the edger Get it you wont look back Mate ;) ;D 8) 8)
With the demo debate ;) :D total geenhorns are not a good option but also having a gun sawyer going flat stick and pushing himself and the gear to the limmit (unless your in a comp) can also give newbys to the game a false sence of of what a machine can do in average conditions When ive done demos i just cruse along as it gives ppl a better feel for what they can expect to see production wise for themselfs and just tell them that you can do better than that with experiance but that takes years to master ;) ;D 8)
Reguards Chris
I've decided to buy the edger, it was to good a deal to pass up. Now to design a saw shed and a work flow diagram to minimize board handling.
Good deal, glgdiggs! You won't regret it!
Tom has some diagrams on here somewhere, for optimal setup / workflow...
-Norm.
Ive had a WM edger since 2001. I would be lost without it. That said,before I had an edger, I used to sort all my flitches in same lengths and widths onto some pilebottoms. Id be careful to center each flitch on the pile in relation to the rest of them. After a pile got about 14-16 inches high, I would tale a couple of large "C" clamps and clamp each end of the pile making sure the "C" clamps were centered at each end of the pile. Then me and the grunt(helper) would lift the pile onto the mill with the c clamps and two cuts later we had a nice pile of boards. Did cut the little metal twist thing on one clamp..heh.... ;D