I'm in the planning stages of having a well drilled on my property. I have a general question I want opinions on, how far away from your house, shed, barn, or whatever would you locate the well? We have to have a minimum 50 feet between a well and septic, but that is not a problem (the septic isn't installed yet). What is the maximum distance you would have the well from your house? Based on the driller's comments, I'm looking at a 175 to 200 foot deep, with a 4 inch submergable pump. A pressure tank will be supplied at the well location.
So, max distance from house or other structures?
Pumping water across flat ground is no big deal, so I wouldn't worry about that unless it's on a hill. Are you going to have a meter dedicated at the well, or is it off your house box? running a lot of wire is probably the biggest concern. Actually the biggest concern is getting water in the well. ;) Sounds like you want it as far away as practical? I would have it far enough to be out of the yard, driveway area at least.
I'd suggest considering the future, to get back to the well head for pulling the pump whenever that is needed. So wherever it's close to get a pump winch truck to, or over firm ground that won't get torn up with ruts.
I have two sites in mind, the first site will be next to a firm road/drive and about 100 feet from the house site. Other water needs will be down hill at 300 and 900 feet. The second site would also be near a road/drive and be downhill of the house site by 300 feet (elevation difference of maybe 30 feet) and 600 feet from the other location. Electric will go right by the second location.
It's not necessarily getting the well as far away as practical as it is getting a practical location to feed eveything I want to feed. I'm looking at a spigot at the tractor barn/saw shed, the house, a wood shop, and maybe a couple of guest houses. In the future, there will be two more houses if the daughters elect to build on the land.
The first consideration is to get a good "witch" to find the water...especially if your planing three houses. Your driller is probably right on depth but make him drill the hole where you will have the most water...the witch can find the veins and they will run together.
I've already witched/twitched the locations...that's the reason they were selected. ;)
At sight #2 you may have to get a surface pump to get enough pressure up the hill, exspecially if you have a 2 story house up there. With that said, you may need a bigger pump at sight #1 if the well has to be drilled deeper due to elevation.
My neighbors well is down 160, my site is about 50 feet higher, so the 200 feet counts for the deeper well. I've also about decided that which ever way I decide to go, a pressure booster will be placed at each location, and maybe a holding tank.
Can your witch tell you how deep, I have heard some can get fairly close? If both are about the same depth I would place it closer to the "main house" and then distribute to the others, with boosters if needed. If the lower is significantly less drilling I would go with that because of the per foot cost. Many times you will find that a well does not need to be deeper just because you go up in elevation. Underground strata defining the aquafer determine that. Try to find a witch who gives an indication of depth needed as well as vein strength.
Well it wasn't hard here to tell the new neighbors where to drill. It was coming out of the base of a small knoll in the field. It was artesian. They drilled and water was gushing out that like old faithful. The neighbors sold about 4 years later and the new owner thought there was something wrong with his well until my brother explained what was going on. He's got more water than he can handle. :D
Down by the old barn site, not far away from this new house we had a trough there that was always running water from the ground. Came from a spring across the road actually, about 800 feet away. Grandfather's house was on the same spring. Also fed a second house about 200 feet away. No pump needed it had all kinds of pressure. Water!! No end to it. I used to try and hold back the pressure with my hand over the pipe at the trough as a kid, never could do it. Came in handy to spray water on an unsuspecting younger brother or a cat. :D :D
The next farm down was the same, there was all kinds of water and the old man made 3 fish ponds besides got his water from a spring as well. Seems that dark earth is what you look for around here for easy water. Not mucky earth because these spots can be worked by tractor. But can be soft ground early and late in the growing season.
At 200 feet, my well will run $3200, that includes the pump, pressure tank, and all the wire to hook it up. When they get through, all I have to do is build a shed around it.
Stew
Can you get by without any well casing? In WI, we have to put down at least 50' of casing. More if there are any cave-ins or signs of surface water getting into the well.
Wells here get a casing all the way down. We have very little rock. From a conversation with the driller, he hit rock on my neighbor's well at 20 feet, said it was a few feet thick then no more.
I would recomend against open hole completion. If your pipe gets a leak, you will wash out the side walls,detroy your pump and likely ruin the well. Then you will have the cost of drilling a new one plus pump.
LeeB
What is "open hole completion" ? Is that casing part way down?
I have 70 feet of casing, and then limestone rock. The well is drilled 320' deep. Was having some supply problems, and thought was that maybe some filling had occurred from uncased drilled hole.
Camera was lowered down, and after 41 years since drilling in 1968, we could see the rotary drilling tool marks at the bottom. Zero silting. I was quite surprised, as was the well driller.
But alas, I may be punching that well down lower this coming winter. Decision is yet to be made.
Sorry, oilfield term. Yes, it means only partially cased with the lower section being 'open'. Our first well was like that at the place in Texas. Got a hole in the production pipe and washed out the side wall. The cuttings/grit ate up the pump and trashed the well. It would have cost me as much to fix as to drill new so new well it was. The new one was much better, ie no oil in the water and a whole lot less sand although it did have to be drilled about 300' deeper than the first one. It was interesting for me actually because the old feller drilled it with a cable tool rig (spud rig) instead of a more modern rotary rig.
This well was one of the very first in this southern WI area drilled with a rotary rig. Others were being "pounded" down with cable rig and dropping the bit for a hole. Sometimes would take weeks to get a pounded well finished (hadn't heard it referred to as a "spud" rig, but suspect it is similar). So I was surprised that this well was done in 2 days.
We don't have that problem of hitting oil instead of water. Bummer 8) 8)
Quote from: Radar67 on August 20, 2009, 07:35:58 PM
At 200 feet, my well will run $3200, that includes the pump, pressure tank, and all the wire to hook it up. When they get through, all I have to do is build a shed around it.
Jeez louise! "Only" $3,200??
A 200 foot well here would be about $8,000! I just got a estimate for a 300 foot well, all told it was about $13,500...
I wonder what the difference is?
-Norm.
Quote from: StorminN on August 21, 2009, 03:51:05 PM
I wonder what the difference is?
-Norm.
Most likely bed rock.
A rotory rig in grave/sand can fly. Takes longer to set up than drill the well.
When drilling rock it takes power and wears the drill head. Also some places all of the tailings from a rock well have to be hauled away as hazard waste because of heavy metals.
Lack of rock is the biggest reason. My neighbors 160 foot well took a day and a half from start to finish. They probably could have done it faster, but they had to talk and cut up some.
Most likely it also has to do with Sequim, WA :) :)
I asked about drilling a new well vs. punching this one down further, and it was $8k for new, and about $1.5k to set up and push this one down. That is to 350' or so.
They get what the going rates are, and different parts of the country can run quite differently. Just like the cost of housing. Same house one place isn't the same price everywhere.
Up in this area, there are only a couple well drillers they drill in a 50 mile radius, Connors and Simonson. They come from town here. All the other towns, even our biggest town, doesn't have a well driller. Don't know, maybe that's all the market will stand. But, hope they both don't retire the same time. :D We have lots of people into the cement business and the gravel business, every town has those.
Radar67,
Being a new sawmill owner, and an old well driller there are some points to consider.
1. I would tell my customers to put the well out of the way.
2. Close to a hard surface.
3. Look up, don't put it close to any powerlines, or under the edge of a tree canopy which will get bigger with time.
4.If possible locate it uphill from point of usage as water will lose .43 PSI per verticle foot of height ( 30 ft. vert. = 13 psi loss). Booster pumps add to overall investment and operating cost that is not usually necessary. A properly sized submersible pump and properly sized pressure tank should meet all of your requirements.
5. Use the next size larger service wire that the cable selection chart calls for from house to well, and this with a proper sized press. tank will increase the life of the system greatly.
Bury service wire because overhead lines tend to attract lightning strikes.
I hope this info helps some, I hold a State of Texas Master Water Well Driller/Pump Installer Lic.
Toby Miller
Thanks and welcome to the forum. Most of the points you covered I have already considered, except for the bigger wire. I don't have to worry about power lines as everything will be underground. The power company is suppose to do the build in the next couple of weeks. The spot I want to put the well is uphill from the house, but I will have to do some cutting to get it out of the tree line. I suppose that is to keep the area clear if the pump has to be pulled later? As for the hard surface, it will be next to a gravel road, the same surface as everything else around the house.
I'll be calling the driller in the next few weeks.
Radar67, I appreciate the welcome.
Junkhound
In this part of the world the well cost is on a per foot basis, plus setup charges. I have a family friend who is a well driller, and he mentioned that a lot of drillers determine the depth based on how much of a pain in the rear end the customer is. Difficult customer gets deeper well, more $. :)
Locating the well up-hill from the house is the best thing to do, but also with the least amount of pipe to the house also. I grew up in a house that had the well downhill with about 30' of lift to the house. It took a fair sized pressure tank under the house to keep the pressure up so we could take showers.
At my grandmothers house, the well had over 75' of lift to push it up, and it was a good 1000' of distance to push it. We were glad that they installed 1 1/4" thin-wall PVC because when it cracked, we couldn't always find where it was leaking from but we could easily push 1" PVC through the other pipe to re-seal the pipe, just reduced the flow- glad she now has Rural Water- no more chasing down breaks in the pipe.
Another factor- build the building around the well a minimum of 8'x8' with a "sump pit"- 4' road culvert works good on it- then when you add more buildings to the well, it is much easier to tie in the pipes- you just have to punch a hole in the block wall to put the pipe in, instead of digging up the well head and running the risk of pushing dirt into the well or hitting it with the backhoe. You can also put shutoffs on each line so one building can have the water shut off, but not all the other buildings.
Another point- try to minimize the amount of traffic over your supply line- if it has to go across the driveway, try to put a sleeve over it to minimize the damage to the pipe if you have heavy traffic- ie semi-trucks or large tractors.
Charles
Quote from: Radar67 on August 18, 2009, 11:44:35 AM
... the first site will be next to a firm road/drive and about 100 feet from the house site. Other water needs will be down hill at 300 and 900 feet. .... Electric will go right by the second location.
Getting water to flow downhill is usually not a problem, and if there is significant fall you might not even much of a pressure system lower down (in fact, you might get too much pressure down at the end of the run depending on what you're supplying).
Another option, if you're really worried about the downhill sites is to have a small horizontal drilled into the main vertical well and put a separate pump at location 2 since you've go electrics there. I don't know if that's an approved well configuration in your area, but that's what my grandfather had to do to get water to the barn on his lower 40 (about 200' elevation change) because he couldn't run enough water up to the house, across the field, and then down... burned out 3 pumps before deciding it was cheaper to drill sideways.
I see several remarks about water witching/dowsing in this thread. There have been several well documented controlled tests of this technique and it every case the dowsers failed.
"Typical is what happened when James Randi tested some dowsers using a protocol they all agreed upon. If they could locate water in underground pipes at an 80% success rate they would get $10,000 (now the prize is over $1,000,000). All the dowsers failed the test, though each claimed to be highly successful in finding water using a variety of non-scientific instruments, including a pendulum. Says Randi, "the sad fact is that dowsers are no better at finding water than anyone else. Drill a well almost anywhere in an area where water is geologically possible, and you will find it."
I'm a firm believer in the "scientific method"
I (on purpose) planted my half of the garden on all the wrong days according to the Almanac and my wife planted hers on the "right days". Our yields were exactly the same. Why do people believe in this junk??
I agree with ya. I've seen many TV documentary programs dowse their claims using them themselves as participants.
Only thing I go by on the planting is the temperature and frost free days, and that is a crap shoot because we can't predict the future weather too well beyond a couple or three days and not precise enough off the TV for your back yard when risk of frost is still in the air in spring time. Can be 2 or 3 degree difference either side of the freezing mark, depending where the garden is.
I'm one that has dowsed and have had the bark from the willow twist off in my hands.I found the water line in our yard even though it was contrary to where we thought it was(EW instead of NS)
I won't even try to convince the scoffers but I just wanted to be counted as one that has seen it first hand.
So, go get that $1,000,000.
Like I said Lee..