Today I finally got back on my lathe. 8) It was alot of fun. I found a chunk of wood that someone sent to me a few years ago, and I regret I do not remember who. Anyway, the chunk has end grain that is giving me fits. I do not know how to proceed. You can see by the photos below, the trouble I am having. If anyone has helpful hints, I would really appreciate them.
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First off that's a Jet Lathe Where's that purdy Yellow Power-Matic?
That wood looks kinda punky. Is it?
I have trouble like that myself....I think it was firewood by the time I got done.
Sharp, sharp tools and small cuts and then sanding may be the only answer
On the udder hand what do I know? ::) ::) ::)
Patty, Steve sent me some wood just like that. I think it was burl yellow birch. The end grain was giving me fits too. I got it roughed down, then dipped it in polyurethane. The first coat soaked in really quick, so I dipped it again after it dried. I had it close to the finished size when I dipped it, so to finish it, I used 36 grit sand paper. I got it down fairly smooth, but there are still a few "pock" marks that will just have to be. I have smoothed the edges of them with sandpaper best I can. I will continue to add coats of poly until I get the finish built up like I want.
Is it basswood Patty? Light and soft? That'll be a hard turn. I have not experimented with soft woods while turning end grain on spindle mounts. Soft woods yes, but not with the grain direction you are. My end grain is usually on the mounted ends of face plate turnings or columns on spindle mounts. It might, I said might, be accomplished with a skew chisel but go slow and don't take big bites. It's got to be real sharp, hone your tool with compound on a felt wheel. It's not going to get done by a tool that has a wide bevel > 20 ° on the cutting edge. I think there is a rounded skew chisel by Henry Taylor that is easiest to handle. Here is a video of a skew chisel being used. I've not viewed it here on dial-up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-EnlcBY1M
Quote from: Radar67 on September 05, 2009, 08:27:14 PM
Patty, Steve sent me some wood just like that. I think it was burl yellow birch. The end grain was giving me fits too.
Probably those large pores, not as large as oak, but they are uniform across the early and late wood so harder to smooth up. You can see the pores easily by naked eye. Yellow birch is even a little finicky to get sanded smooth to. Darn butternut does the same, same deal with the pores, only it's softer so it's worst. :D
That bowl blank is a Yellow Birch burl from a standing dead tree with its top gone, the blanks are soft and need to be sanded down to the final finish. Here is a table made from the same burl.
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Thanks so much! I came to the conclusion too, that sanding was going to be the answer. However I may try the scew chisel Donk suggested. I will let you all know how it turns out.
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I got busy with the sand paper today.
I see you got some thinning on some of the edges too.
That looks pretty good Patty 8) 8) 8)
Skew chisels are really not meant for bowl turning. I rarely use them, and when I do, it's for spindles only. Bowl turnings call for a deep-fluted bowl gouge. You must make shearing cut, rather than scraping cuts, to get a good surface on end grain. I would highly recommend that you purchase a basic woodturning book or video. It will cut years off of your learning curve. Also, the wood looks very punky. Life's too short to spend it sanding difficult wood! Although the bowl did turn out nice :)
Yes Radar the edges are uneven for sure. The bowl started out askew, as it was cut unevenly to begin with. So the wobble was huge, and added to my difficulty. The only way I knew to correct the wobble was to whittle down the edges until the wobble went away....and ultimately led to the uneven edges. ::)
Dodgy you are right in that this is not the ideal chunk of wood. But it was a gift to me, and I felt I owed it, to try to make something from the gift. No the scew is not the ideal tool for this , but it worked better than the gouge, since it didn't catch in the end grain. I am an equal opportunity tool user! Yes I could do with lessons, of course I realize my ineptitude. But I have so much fun trying, that I really am oblivious to my less than stellar results. My hobbies are strictly for pleasure not financial reward.
A skew chisel is not really a scraper, it's very sharp edged. Now a square end scraper, is just that. Some people make them from old files. I've smoothed bowl surfaces with skew chisels a few times. It's delicate work though. ;) ;D
Spindle turning, as I've used the term here, refers to mounting both ends, as apposed to a face plate mount.
Quote from: Patty on September 08, 2009, 10:00:35 AM
No the scew is not the ideal tool for this , but it worked better than the gouge, since it didn't catch in the end grain.
If your gouge is catching worse than a skew chisel, you're either using a spindle gouge instead of a bowl gouge, or you're using a bowl gouge incorrectly ;). Skew chisels are known for their ability to catch when you least expect it. A bowl gouge, properly used, will usually only catch when you're trying to take a cut too deep or too far from the tool rest. I recommend Richard Raffan's book
Turning Wood as an excellent resource to get you started.
OK, so I didn't use what you are thinking of as a scew, I used a Skewchigouge. I was just too lazy to go look up the spelling. ::) It is an awesome tool that Charlie turned me onto, and for this bowl, it worked very well. The sandpaper then finished it nicely.
I do have the book you suggested, I just don't feel like reading it. (the pictures are pretty cool, though! ;D) Lessons are not available to me, and it is doubtful I would go anyway, even if they were. This turning for me is a pleasure, not a mission. I will learn new technique and maybe someday even get better, if not, that's ok too.
Someday, when you get a bit older, you might understand my nonchalant attitude, Dodger. This is just a hobby for me, no more, and no less.
It looks nice Patty.
Keep enjoying your hobby. :)
Thanks Red. :)
I think that bowl looks beautiful! I know how much work and love goes into your projects and there is no price tag on the sentimental value.
:)
you did a very nice job on that bowl. keep up the good work.
Quote from: Patty on September 08, 2009, 06:59:55 PM
Someday, when you get a bit older, you might understand my nonchalant attitude, Dodger. This is just a hobby for me, no more, and no less.
I take my hobbies more seriously than most folks ;D. It's a hereditary thing, far as I can tell :D
Patty your an inspiration smiley_sun tonight I dusted off the lathe through a rotten piece of Maple on it and spun a bowl, it isn't perfect has some soft spots got a little thin in a few spots but it was great therapy
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10524/466/spbowl_001.jpg)
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I gave it away after the pics were taken, that makes two happy people.
I give away a lot of bowls........everybody wins..........
Fine bowl there, Bob.
Don
Be great gifts around Thanksgiving or Christmas with a bowl of fruit, nuts and jams for a family.
Nice!
Thanks Bob. :)
Nice job Bob 8) 8) 8)
Pasbuild, your bowl was awesome!
I like the therapy as well, and you get to create something to boot. Bonus!
I put some Watson oil on the bowl and it brought out the interesting grain patterns. Thanks again for the wood, you guys, I really have been enjoying it. :)
Y'know Patty, It helps if you burn in some beeswax after the oil, right? And be sure to spin it both directions and hold your buffer rag tight so the heat helps the wax/oil soak in a bit. Then you'll have a nice , soft gloss. ;D ;D ;D
great job patty!..perseverance and lots of pointers from the members really pays off doesn't it?
Lud,
I wish I had read your tip about the wax before now. I was going to do just what you said, then changed my mind and went for the polyurethane instead. Now I kinda wish I had gone the wax route. :-\ Bummer
I guess we'll see how she turns out in the end.
Yes, TF, this place is awesome for good advice and kind words. :)
Patty...I kinda have the same dilemma in the bottom of this tiny box elder bowl i am working on,even with super sharp tools and light cuts ,you still get some tearout
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So 17" is tiny................hmmmmmmmm :D :D
I turned that one on the outboard set up..spooky at first..also turned thi
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(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14594/1144/071208043804.JPG)s monster hollow form this morning,had some figured ,but not too figured wood i had to use up. This one was 16" in diameter when completed..but bigger isnt always better,as you can see by this tiger maple bowl of 4"
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Patty, endgrain tearout can be a difficult problem. The wood fibers don't have any support. One trick that helps some is to brush on a heavy coat of sanding sealer and then take light cuts while the sealer is still wet. The sanding sealer helps support the fibers. Sometimes I have good luck by cutting the wood by pulling the the gouge and not pushing it. For endgrain turning, I use scrapers on the inside. On the outside you might try what is called sheer scraping with a regular skew (you use the skew like a scraper but lightly pull the skew over the wood), but do it lightly. Another trick with punky wood is to make up a solution of 50:50 glue and water and soak the wood in it. Then let it dry. The glue hardens the punky wood and helps support the fibers. I've never tried it before but Minwax makes a product called "Wood Hardner". It soaks into rotten wood and dries fairly quickly and making the punky wood hard.
Charlie, you say it so well.........you could be a commentator on the "Turning Channel" !! 8)
Great advice Charlie. Beats using sandpaper for sure.......but I was amazed at how well the sandpaper did work. I imagine because the wood was so soft, it allowed me to sand it down rather quickly.
Your bowls are beautiful, TF.
patty...if at all possible ,you should try to hold your bowl gouge handle really low too..it really helps those super light but very important cuts..ty charlie..will try the wet sanding sealer method,and show more pics of the end results
Sometimes I'll take a bowl gouge with a "fingernail" grind on the tip and turn it sort of upside down. Then I start in the middle of the inside of the bowl and lightly put the top edge against wood and pull it toward the rim of the bowl. So......you are not using the tip of the gouge for cutting, you are using the top edge of the "fingernail" grind. With a little practice, this technique can leave a very smooth surface.
Gosh I wish you all lived less than 2 states away. ::) Perhaps a video is in order here! Visual aid is so helpful in this type of discussion.
My method of trial & error pretty much sucks, but I sure do have a good time. ;D
Yesterday I worked on a bowl that Woodbowl sent up a few years ago. I believe he calls them "dough bowls" or something similar. I had never seen sweet gum wood before, much less worked with it. My goodness, after 2 hours of heavy sanding I am beginning to see some progress. The wood is very pretty, and some of the hardest wood I have worked with. Right up there with white oak and black locust. Today I intend to finish the sanding with some steelwool to smooth it out. I am anxious to see the results.
It is great to be back in a shop again. 8)
You should get something similar to this Patty.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12911/StewBSG003.jpg)
Patty, here is a pretty good article on the differnt ways to "Sheer Scrape". It would be well worth your time to practice this technique. Sure cuts the sanding time.
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/shear-scrapers.html
Here's another article from the same site concerning preventing end grain tear out. It prety much says the same thing I did but suggests using paste wax or lacquer.
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/torn-grain.html
Thanks Charlie, I appreciate your good advice.
Woodbowl's bowl is sanded.
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my little end grain bowl is finished also
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You are getting the hang of sanding, Patty. 8) 8)
Why thank you Harold. How nice of you to say so. :)
Looks real good from this angle. ;D Sanding can be a real chore. I know, try butternut. Sand, sand and sand some more. :D
What did you sand the dough bowl with? Now, if you'll had a nice piece of maple, you could turn out some nice butter trays. ;D
My grandmother and uncle made a lot of butter over the years from Jersey cows. :)
We made our own butter when I was little at one of the places we lived. We had two cows, one jersey for the cream & butter, and one holstein for the milk. With 5 kids to feed, we used up all the milk and cream every day. I wasn't old enough to do the actual milking, my brother & sister got that chore, I was the one who crawled up into the silo and threw down the silage for the cows and feeder calves we had. Then I had to go up into the hayloft and throw down bales of hay. Hmmmm...now that I think about it, I should've been doing the milking while the older ones did the heavy lifting! :D
My older brother had "allergies" to hay dust so I was always stuck in the top of the barn at the end of the elevator when we made hay.
I thought he was just allergic to work.......haven't changed my mind in 50 years. :D :D :D
My brother's accuse always was he had to go to the washroom. After about an hour you'd go looking and he was sitting watching TV eating cookies. Mom always said, his ass had the grabs. :D
Patty will get a kick outta that one. ;D