Anybody run an older 440 deere cable skidder with powershift? Was wondering how they done on steep ground, have heard they would turn over pretty easy. I need a small cable skidder to work some rough ground and was going to get a timberjack 230 or 240,but run up on a good deal on a 440. Thanks
ran a 440 for most of my forest work. here in the flat/hilly lands of centeral minn. and on smaller inclines of the pnw. wider ,full floatation tires work best for stability on inclines!!! as well as its lower belly...... power to handle as much as 11/2 cords of jack pine 60 feet long using 7 chokers/9ft. if you have a good deal on one ! go for it easy to operate and dependable!!!
I've never run a Deere with a powershift, every one I've ever owned or run has been a synchroshift. I've been told the powershifts are nice until they break, then they're more money to fix. I have run alot of different brands of skidders and the easiest one to roll is John Deere. The Timberjacks and Franklins hold a hillside better. Even so, I still think that the little 440 series is the best skidder ever built for all around use in a smaller logging outfit. They are very maneuverable and operator friendly. But they're a bear to work on and the parts are pricey.
The straight 440 model, before they made the 440A, is a good little machine. It's getting hard though to find some parts for it, especially transmission parts. The motor is no big deal, you can always upgrade to a newer series engine. The hydraulics parts are easy to get still. It's just the transmission, rear end, and axle parts that are getting hard to find.
I found out its a b series, havn't looked at it yet . supposed to be in good shape with 90% 18.4 26 tires. motor has been built with about 1000 hrs on it. Would it be worth $7000?
if its newer then 1980,s like an 87 or so? then if your looking for spending that much ? its not a bad price... good used equipment is hard to find without puting extra into it right off the get go!haveit checked out by someone that knows the ropes... obtw, 26" tires are ground huggers!!!!
Would it be worth $7000? Yes.
I had one here (Thanks Frickman), worked great, it is a little tippy. But like Frick said great manuverability. Several other local guys run them. Much nicer on a "near" town site as they are a TON quieter than something running a Detroit. I would get really tired of running a Detroit, I am sure they are a great engine, but WOW they are loud.
Here is Frick's skidder before a fresh coat of paint.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11262/Ofrickmanskidder1.jpg)
I had a 540a that I run for several years , would this 440b be any less stable on steep ground than the 540a.
I put the old 540 in some rough places and never did roll it, but it was pretty light in the rear and I learned to have my hand on the blade lever a good bit of the time. It had 23.1 tires and I ran fluid in them ,this 440 has the 18.4 tires, I appreciate the replys.
WOW!! 18.4 !! thats getting low to mother earth.the 540 and the 440 were not much differant. cept heavier and wider with any next step up on equipment..tires were more of the 26"/ 28" if i remember right ? someone please check my thoughts.....the only 540/544 that i was using had a grapple and cable combo. cable over grapple is easier to drop and run in the right case.
Old Timbercutter,
It's good you have practice pushing yourself back down onto four wheels with the blade. You'll be doing it alot on a 440B. At least in certain situations.
On the first tract I cut with the skidder you see above my skid trail angled about 45 degrees down a very steep hill to the landing. I had to have three decent sized logs hooked to it on every trip to keep the back end on the ground and even then I was up on three wheels quite a bit. The landowner's wife would watch me from her kitchen window and I would scare her to death when I got it up on three wheels. Just stop and push the blade down, no big deal, I've been doing it all my life.
Just a thought, perhaps SHE was the "landowner" :D ;D
Ironwood
Ironwood,
He was the landowner, but she was the boss.
I've said this before on the Forum, and I'll say it again. The John Deere 440B is the best all around machine ever put in the woods in eastern hardwood timber. Will it pull cypress from deep out of a muddy, mucky swamp? No. Can you make a living skidding pulp behind a feller buncher on a pine plantation down south? No. Is it the fastest machine on a nice, level two hundred acre clearcut? No. But you go cut two, five, ten, fifty acre tracts like I do, and include alot of select cutting and varied terrain, and you won't find anything better. It is quiet, mauveurable, and very operator friendly. Plus, John Deere still supports it with parst and service. If I found a 440B in my area in good condition for $7000 it would be on a trailer heading for home the very next day. I don't really need another skidder right now, but I wouldn't pass one up at that price.
What year is this 440 anyhow? I almost bought a 440 made in 1970, but was told that parts are hard to come buy too. Pretty interesting reading the post's on the tippiness of the smaller JD skidders. I own a small JD and run it on uneven terrain which being a "green horn" operator have found out you gotta be on your toes. Lowering the blade definately works, backing up on steep terrain makes me nervous though.
I looked at buying one a few years ago and even the owner told me that the parts are very expensive. the price sounds good so long as everything checks out. as far as skidders being user friendly my timberjack 208 is great. its easy to get in and out and if your working alone you will really apreaciate that everyday. it quite easy to fix so far, and yes it is lowd. i have never had any issue will hills seems quite stable.
I have a 440B/powershift and I would have to say that much of what I have read here is true, both good and bad.
I can't say that I would put much weight behind the "I've never had one but I've heard..." kind of comments. Just about any machine can be tipped and sometimes in the most innocent of circumstances. There are no substitutes for experience, common sense and maybe a little luck. I would say if it's a B it will more likely be '70s vintage rather than '80s. Can't remember the years of change but if it has hydraulic controls for the winch that are powered by the skidder system then I think it is newer than a B. Parts for B's are still available but may take some looking. They can be expensive but the basic machine is well engineered for the task and if it has been looked after you may have less to repair than some others. Personally, just not having to listen to the jimmy is enough for me! JD's can be a hassle to work on, but they are also pretty reliable. I have had to do a few majors on mine but it is an old machine and skidders are not used 'just for the occasional Sunday drive'. If you bought a highway tractor of similar vintage would you expect it to work for another 30 or so years with no problems?
If I had it to do again I would absolutely consider another 440B.
arojay,
Parts are expensive but they don't require looking. I don't know how things work in the Yukon but around here all I have to do is call the local John Deere dealer and they get me what I need if it's not on stock. I have a complete parts manual for the 440 series and I just order what I need by part number which makes the dealer's life alot easier.
My B has hydraulic controls for the winch but I think it is one of the newer B's. You can contact Deere with the serial number of your machine and they will tell you when and where it was built. I have done that with other machines I've owned but haven't gotten around to it with my current one.
Frickman, I live in a fairly remote part of the world, my nearest JD dealer with reasonable parts resources is about 1200 miles away. I have several used part suppliers that I deal with who are also many miles to the south. Oddly enough, The dealer often has to bring parts up from dealers much closer to you than to me. A lot of the parts availability thing is because old line skidders are not used so much in western and Northern Canada now as buncher/grapple skidder logging is the most common. I use Deere's online parts site and have no trouble identifying what I need, it just takes time to get it. New tires, ordered from a franchise dealer will come from N.Y. state, for instance. I'm not complaining, although it is minus 11 Celsius this morning!
Arojay,
Guess you stock up when you run out to the store, ay?.
Those of us who think we live in the country REALLY have no idea what it must be like to live where you do. This always reminds me of running into an oldtimer in the Adirondacks who after an ice/ snow storm a tree fell across the road stopping all of us. He promptly open the trunk on his Caddy and pulls out a Stihl, saying up here, you gotta be ready for most anything. For you, multiply by a factor of......?
Ironwood
Yes, while we do have to plan ahead a little more than folks in more populated areas, we don't exactly live in the bush either. Just surrounded by it.
7k is a good price.I had one working on my job a few weeks ago.the owner is asking 9.5k it pulled 45mbf in 6 weekends.seemed very stable on a very steep down slope on our site,altho i saw it on one left rear tire on the landing trying to turn towards the pile ;D . For 9.5 you get a 69 440a with new tires, engine @ 1k hrs and i was tempted to buy it ;) . and yes i am very sick of running a detroit :o.
I ran one for years and just sold it awhile back a 1978 440c had a standard transmission for $14000. There good little skidders and are stout pullin but are tippy but as long as you keep the backend of the skidder inline with where your winchin from its fine. If you gotta heavy load on just drop turn then winch back up. The thing is you always wanna keep your hand on the winch lever at all times so you can drop them trees incase she starts to get tippy . Get a steering knob so you can steer with one hand best thing ever. But I never would skid sideways on a hill either skid strait up or down the hill then at the top or bottom turn around if you have too.
The 440 is great for lighter trees like cedar but if your gonna do mostly pine or hardwood your better off getting a bigger machine.
I used mine for eastern cedar whole trees limbs and all and it did fine 4- 5 good sized trees at a time or 3 tree length pine logs. The good thing is the 440 skidder is light and stays on top of the ground and turns in tight places plus you can hual it behind a 1 ton on a 8 1/2 wide trailer.
I used to skid cedar with mine and settem in a line with a backhoe the delimbem with my husky. I now have a John Deere 548g grapple/winch skidder with air/heat along with a loader air/heat and delimber now I cant hardly wait to go loggin. Its like I dont even work anymore. :D ;D
Oh if you get a small skidder put about 2/3rds antifreeze in all 4 of the tires the extra weight helps keep the little rig on all 4's
its too bad that other small skidders are so hard to get parts for. my mid 70's massey ferguson is i think just a shade bigger than the 440, but is a very stable machine. the entire chassis oscillates, not just the front axle. i have used it on some relatively steep ground, and have only rarely puckered, like when the uphill tire runs over a log or a stump that i didnt see. i have never run a 440, but i would think that a set of 23.1x26 would help them out alot. my little skidder weighs right at 15,000, and is just barely over 8'6" wide. i think it is a great machine, but with only 500 or so ever made, parts are not the easiest thing to find. but in the 8 years i have had it all i have had to do besides change oils and filters is replace a steering cylinder. 4th gear wont pull a load, but then i dont ever have a need for 4th. high 1st is about the same as low 4th, and high 4th is for roading only. i keep thinking it will die one day, but it just keeps going.
I've got a 1978 440b and I sure wouldn't take $7000 for it. It dosen't have the power shift transmission though. When I got it the blade had been widened out to the width of the machine. I thought that would be the first thing I'd change, but had to put it to work before I had a chance to cut the extensions off. Boy has that wide blade saved my tail more than once.
I've had it for 3 years and have only had one job with less than 40% slope. It is tippy, but as said earlier, loading the tires helps a lot. They are good stout little machines, and if I had a chance to buy one for 7k I'd probably own two of them.
Andy
Garrett made some nice smaller machines, but are seen on the used market mostly in the NW US. Mountain Logger is another nice smaller machine, though I think usage was mostly in western US also. I paid $3,000 for my Garrett 15A, though the winch still needs a bit of work, it does pull real nice, and parts are really reasonable. JD 440's were a popular machine when I logged full time in N. Wisc, and Upper Mich. Good machine, always seemed to hold a decent resale value as long as it was looked after well.
Had a 440 long time ago it was the sencromesh it will pull lot more than you think it will . Now i have a 225D T J i like it better some ways as the T J is easer for a old man to get on and off it also has positive track four wheel drive . Yes my hearing is shot . Yes they will flip over i got experience .
J D is harder for me to get on and fall off and have seen the time if that other front tire would hold i wouldn't got stuck but i should not been where i was to start with .
Seven grand is a good price though
my dad had a 440c and my pap had 2 440 c and rented a 440 b.. dad never had trouble with his .. my pap had a very high production crew and couldnt keep the b together and the first 440c either. kept blowin head gaskets.. the second one had a 540 d motor and worked liek a top. my dad had the back tires fully loaded and the front half full.. that helps but they still are fairly tipsy machine but like mentioned earlier strate up or strate down now side hill skiddin or youll be sorry ;D .. speakin from expeirance they dont run as good on there side.. even though im a timberjack man i woulda gave 7 for it .. look s to be in good shape and has good tires. work good in tight woodlots and john deeres wiggle through nething .. and in developments it eeps residents happy people tend to frown upon detriots at 630 in the mornin echoing thru there house :D id say you made a good buy thojsut lookin at the pic
lol id much rather drive a detroit any day than a cummins or a duetz u cant kill them if u get the custom molded ear plugs the sound isnt even that bad
The short frame 440s will out perform any other older skidder in the tight stuff.
The ability to lock and unlock the front axle, the short wheel base, and smooth low end power makes it the best machine if the goal it to thin the stand with minimal trail width.
I love old Detroit's but they only have power in a 500 rpm range. If you lug a 53 series Detroit much you will melt a liner seal.
Two stroke Detroit's are best for long pulls when you do not need to change speed much. They will run at 2500 rpm for weeks at a time. They are better run in a skidder with an auto trans and torque converter so you can better control when the power hits.
i was always told detroits are all or nothin :D .. to be honest when a detroit is luggin it hurts my ears worse than when its screamin i hate hearin them lug i cant tune that out . i ran john deere and cummins the smae way i did detroit only i didnt kno you could lug them a little more.. they work pretty good at peak haha :D and you can hear yourself think . as for unlocking axles.. im used to them old timberjcks i run anyhting else thats unlocked i get stuck ???
Somebody on the other side of the hill where I have been cutting has been running a Timberjack with a screamin demon in it, and from the sound I heard today he got stuck big time. I could tell by the sound during the quiet spells that he was stuck or something and later in the day I heard a new sound, probably a dozer. Yep he was stuck. Luv dem old detroits.....from a distance.
You can always tell where they're working and what they are doing, but contribute to noise pollution. ;)
I have a '69 440 with a Syncro Range Transmission, Mid '90s 4045T Engine I love the little beast.. I swear i'll never part with it. Got all four tires loaded, new tires on the front and Ring Chains for all four when needed.. She can get a little tipsy on hills but not too bad.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20739/2610/006.JPG)
Had another 440 for about 2 years.. '71 I believe, ran great but the tranny was gettin hard to shift, New clutch and it didn't help so I sold it.. Got an amazing $3500 for it 3 years ago