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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: bandmiller2 on November 29, 2009, 07:32:20 AM

Title: Outlaw buildings
Post by: bandmiller2 on November 29, 2009, 07:32:20 AM
If I was a building inspector I'd sure keep an eye on you mill owning rascals,seems where ever you go outlaw buildings pop up.Frank C.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Sawyerfortyish on November 29, 2009, 08:02:54 AM
I always tell people I have a permit if you want to see it i'll go get it I keep it where it's dry in my gun cabinet. Stay right here i'll be right back ;) :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on November 29, 2009, 08:04:25 AM
Unforunate sign of the times. Gov't get out of my life.

Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: timberfaller390 on November 29, 2009, 08:50:13 AM
AS I have said before "It's my property, I own it Hell deep and Heaven high and I will do with it what I *DanG well please" And the gooberment can go to the blazes.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Magicman on November 29, 2009, 09:03:43 AM
And, it's not even law, (or outlaw).....it's "regulations".

Grade it and stamp it baby......grade it and stamp it.

ISOA      (Independent Sawmill Owners Association)
SYP #2  (Southern Yellow Pine #2 grade)
KSLLC    (Knothole Sawmill LLC)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Chuck White on November 29, 2009, 05:37:59 PM
I've had building inspectors ask me "where are you sawing next" !
My reply is always "down the road a ways" !

If the building inspectors started following sawmills around, they'd put 'em out of business!

I saw, and the customer can do what he/she wants to with his/her lumber!
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Magicman on November 29, 2009, 05:49:37 PM
One of the largest building contractors in my county just finished a 2800+sq.ft. home here in Brookhaven.  He used 100% Magicman sawed lumber.  The City Building Inspector and the Lender both approved the lumber before he started.

The carpenters commented that it was the best lumber that they had worked with.  Virtually all of it would have graded #1.  Not the first board used in the framing was "store bought".

Makes me happy..... :)  and keeps me sawing...... 8)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: fishpharmer on November 29, 2009, 06:14:22 PM
Hush Magicman, everyone will want to move to MS. ;D

I wonder how much money was saved using magicman lumber?
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Larry on November 29, 2009, 06:22:47 PM
Quote from: fishpharmer on November 29, 2009, 06:14:22 PM
I wonder how much money was saved using magicman lumber?

This might be an interesting answer.

Our county has started using spy planes.  I don't know how to combat that.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: shinnlinger on November 29, 2009, 06:31:15 PM
Spy planes???  If I was a county taxpayer I would tell them to use google earth....

As for the grade in stamp deal, I like magicman's stamp and the fact that he was able to get around the requirement.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: campy on November 29, 2009, 09:49:36 PM
I agree this is all slavery and tyranny.

How hard would it be to become a certified lumber grader in the USA?
Does anybody know?

The wood I see at monopolistic Lows and Home Despot (spellings intentional) is absolute crap.
I see the pith in way too many boards and it is soft, light, weak and toxic.
But a nail gun will go through it.
The oak boards I cut laugh at a nail gun.
Maybe if there was a way to shoot nails into our hardwood we could compete better?
If there was a special nail or by using higher pressure.
Any ideas?


Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 29, 2009, 10:05:28 PM
There are nailguns that will do the job. They are either very expensive, or require a special $1500 compressor. There's got to be someone to contact in each state about native lumber laws. I'll have to research who you contact in Mass.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jason.weir on November 29, 2009, 10:09:55 PM
I've got the native lumber law book for NH - simple enough to be able to "grade" your lumber for use in construction. I'll scan what I have and post it but from what I've read the building inspector "must" accept the lumber as "graded" if the sawyer follows the set procedures..

-J
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on November 29, 2009, 10:10:32 PM
They use helicopters around here, about once every year or so. @#$%^.

       Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Dave Shepard on November 29, 2009, 10:14:56 PM
They use crop copters around here. Other violations are enforced via satellite.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Kcwoodbutcher on November 29, 2009, 10:17:37 PM
I've built a couple of those outlaw buildings. The inspector came out to inspect a subsequent build and noticed them. All I said was "Don't worry they're already on the tax rolls" . That's all it took and all he cared about.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: paul case on November 29, 2009, 10:35:57 PM
tax evasion aside, truly A MAN ARMED WITH COMMON SENSE IS ... hard to find in goverment beurecrap!  pc
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: sprucebunny on November 29, 2009, 10:46:51 PM
There's not supposed to be a tax on "temporary" buildings.

In the past, on sandy ground, I just use a PT bottom plate and just put it on the ground. (That 'tent' is 10 years old  ;D )

Someone in Minnesota told me that 'pole-barn' style is temporary... I just built one of them to cover a travel trailer ;D

All depends on the definition of 'temporary' I guess
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Puffergas on November 29, 2009, 10:53:11 PM
I'll have you know; I resemble that remark........


Jeff



Quote from: bandmiller2 on November 29, 2009, 07:32:20 AM
If I was a building inspector I'd sure keep an eye on you mill owning rascals,seems where ever you go outlaw buildings pop up.Frank C.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: backwoods sawyer on November 29, 2009, 10:59:08 PM
When I saw the "Outlaw buildings", I just figured you folks were just building a line shack or poker room. Out here, 14' x 14' with no foundation is considered portable. (Tax exempt) The helicopters and planes are looking for "other outlaw crops".
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: zopi on November 30, 2009, 07:55:40 AM
Usually the building code exempts farm buildings...does in VA anyway...they'll still tax you on them, though.

Organized crime. 
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: James P. on November 30, 2009, 09:04:46 AM
if you plan on building something without permits its best to use the don't ask ,don't tell code. I have come to the conclusion that none of it makes fair sense. Every step cost money which unless you saved a good chunk of change requires you to get a loan. Basically this is a problem I have with our culture. I don't want a loan and I don't want to buy into someone elses idea of how my home should be built. I think a person should be able to build themselves a shelter without going thru a mess of codes as long as the structure is not for sale. It could be classified as non inspected. Buyer beware , also uninsureable. if our ancestors had to build by code  we would be a lot different country. We would have lost the Revolutionary War. While we are all living our lives the county councils are making laws that hinder us from trying to live a simple life that doesn't require debt. personally when I am gone I expect a bull dozier to remove my fabricated foot print.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: timberfaller390 on November 30, 2009, 09:08:43 AM
In Catoosa county no building over 100 square feet is exempt from a building permit and inspection. as zopi said organized crime. Let's see I have broken that law at least a dozen times.  The county is now trying to implement a new "fire tax" on all structures that have power. If that happens I'm screwed cause every building on my place has power, From the biggest barn to the two dog houses.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on November 30, 2009, 01:58:47 PM
They made a local farmer tear down a REALLY nice ranch house he had built. After about a  4 year fight he tore down the framed in structure (never got to drywall or utilities), it looks as though they let him rebuild on the exsisting one piece poured foundation. He tried to avoid the permiting process. Sorry #$% buracrats. At least it looks like he is headed in the right direction now.

                   I think they made an example out of him. Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Larry on November 30, 2009, 04:50:39 PM
A lot of rural counties in Missouri and Arkansas do not require any building permits.  The county judges would be committing political suicide if building permits were proposed. :)  Both states adhere to the UBC but again rural counties do not hire the inspectors to enforce the regulations. :)

Guess that's the reason counties are using spy planes and helicopters...they want to know about the outlaw buildings so the owner can pay his due share of property taxes. ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: moonhill on November 30, 2009, 05:31:17 PM
I should stay out of it.  But try not paying your property taxes and see who really owns "your" property.  Same with your car/truck registration with out paying that tax it looks fine sitting in the driveway, so do you really own it?   Thing are quite different than we all think they are.   I should stop before I have a wreck.   

I like my timber framed buildings, I will take them with me if in comes down to that.

Tim
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: sdunston on November 30, 2009, 08:20:52 PM
I agree with all and being on the local planning board I still feel if you buy the land and pay your taxes you should be able to do what you want. In our town ag bldg's are exempt from paying for a permit but still must get one if it is over 100 sqft. The main reason it has come to all this is because of contractors building sub code and most of there customers dont know they are getting riped off, So we hire a "CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER" to police it. We are all dealing with a broken system ::). Now for big brother watching, down load google earth and you will never leave any thing outside again. Makes ya wanna move under ground :D one more thing, If buildings were outlawed only us outlaws would build them and saw wood for the others 8)
Sam
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: zopi on December 01, 2009, 12:04:46 AM
if i had a hill big enough, i would move underground...
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Peakebrook on December 01, 2009, 06:56:27 AM
I just finished sawing a shed for a building inspector.  Lets just say an investment in the future.  :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on December 01, 2009, 08:28:53 AM
One of our local code folks goes to my church, he showed up one day at the shop to introduce me to one of his co-workers. Never hurts to keep those folks on yer side.

           Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Dodgy Loner on December 01, 2009, 08:47:56 AM
We've built two outlaw buildings on Dad's place. One small barn for the horses and a big pole barn for the sawmill. His county uses Google Earth or some other satellite technology to find the buildings and assess taxes on them. Never had an inspector show up at the property, though, unless he did it while we were away. My county? We're among the lucky few with no inspectors ;D.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: easymoney on December 01, 2009, 09:51:01 AM
the county where i live has no building codes. a neighbor is building a home to live in he could not believe there was no codes or inspections he went to the courthouse and asked to be sure. but we have yankees moving in that are building mansions and are pushing for building codes and do not want any homes being built that are valued at less than one hundred thousand dollars. the time is coming that you will not be allowed to build your own home. it will have to be built by a licensed contractor with lumber from lowes or home depot. and a mortguage will be required even if you have the money to pay for it. we have to support the banks and loan companies.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jdtuttle on December 01, 2009, 10:25:30 AM
I agree with most of what's been said about being able to build on your own land. However, my experience as a home inspector has shown me what some people build & then sell to unsuspecting buyers. 2x6 floor joists spanning 18 feet, undesized load bearing lumber, faulty & dangerous electrical & plumbing. We are a reactive society. After a few deaths from poor construction practices we passed laws. Now we are passing more laws & many are just plane old ridiculous. I know because I have to enforce some of them as a code officer.  ;)
jim
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: ohsoloco on December 01, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
Quote from: moonhill on November 30, 2009, 05:31:17 PM
I should stay out of it.  But try not paying your property taxes and see who really owns "your" property. 

Sad but true.  Even after I pay off my mortgage, I won't ever own my house.  Stop paying property taxes and the Sheriff will seize it and sell it to someone that will  :-\
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Tom on December 01, 2009, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: easymoney on December 01, 2009, 09:51:01 AM
but we have yankees moving in that are building mansions and are pushing for building codes and do not want any homes being built that are valued at less than one hundred thousand dollars.

Welcome to Florida's hospitality.  We have welcomed people for years who brought, what they were running away from, with them.  Now they have Disney and a State where you can't sneeze without some Gov. bureaucrat knocking on the door.  :)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on December 01, 2009, 11:59:05 AM
"Sad but true.  Even after I pay off my mortgage, I won't ever own my house.  Stop paying property taxes and the Sheriff will seize it and sell it to someone that will" 

Boy aint that the truth. My nieghbor built a BIG house, his tax bill is as much as my house payment, no end in site and will only go up up up. #$%^ shame.

Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: etkoehn on December 01, 2009, 01:13:34 PM
Those political bums do not keep to the constitution. They are the law breakers. The founding fathers would be on our side. For the most part politicians are crooks and in it for themselves. 
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Magicman on December 01, 2009, 05:45:57 PM
Quote from: etkoehn on December 01, 2009, 01:13:34 PM
For the most part politicians are crooks and in it for themselves. 

BUT, we keep re-electing them !!!
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: sprucebunny on December 01, 2009, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: ohsoloco on December 01, 2009, 10:34:02 AM

  Even after I pay off my mortgage, I won't ever own my house.  Stop paying property taxes and the Sheriff will seize it and sell it to someone that will  :-\

My real estate tax costs as much per month as I paid for rent when I was in my early twenties. It's pretty shocking !!!
Particularly when I consider what I get in return.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Fla._Deadheader on December 01, 2009, 06:01:59 PM

Now, Bunny, You get to hep all them unfortunate types what are on Welfare and Food Stamps, and just WISH they could get a REAL job, and pay them taxes, just like you do.  ::) ::) ;D ;D :D :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: etkoehn on December 01, 2009, 06:31:47 PM
Quote from: Magicman on December 01, 2009, 05:45:57 PM
Quote from: etkoehn on December 01, 2009, 01:13:34 PM
For the most part politicians are crooks and in it for themselves. 

BUT, we keep re-electing them !!!

well lets stop :D
I'm honestly real sick of politics and i'm only in my 20's. I don't know how you older guys put up with it.

Tax the Rich(or anyone who works) so the bums don't have to work
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on December 01, 2009, 06:42:38 PM
Hello all,
I live in central NY state where taxes are really reasonable.
I only pay about $600.00  per month in taxes on 129 acres and a house, shop a sawmill shed and an (outlaw) pole building.
I could rent cheaper for just a house to live in.
I see posts from two others in NY State, one in Carlisle near where I grew up (Delanson NY) and Candor near where I live now ( Sempronius, Cayuga Co.) .
I ask how their taxes are.
I first built a sawmill shelter of 12 X 28 just four poles and a roof which my good wife (who I love dearly) insisted I get a permit for.
No increase in assessment for that.
I then outlawed a pole building at my mill which is 32 X 36 two years ago.
Haven't been bothered so far, but I can se the roof from the nearest Town rd. so I am living on borrowed time.
Holy crap. can't they just leave us alone?
Regards to all
Pete


Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: paul case on December 01, 2009, 07:27:52 PM
pete,
in ok i pay about $1200 a year for 75000 sq ft of barns, 4 homes, and 364 acres. $600 per month sounds real high.the acessor has been here.how do i know? he called for directions,couldn't find us with his garman gps. thats hillarious!!! :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Radar67 on December 01, 2009, 07:43:40 PM
I'm not going to say how low my taxes are to keep the rush down, but I could pay my tax bill for over 7 years on what you spend a month pete.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 01, 2009, 07:56:44 PM
We pay about 17,000$ a year in warnerville NY about 11 miles from carlisle on 700 acres of hill ground two houses and three barns I don't use. This is with Ag exemption. Without it would be at least double. Our house has doubled in assesment in two years. I am just holding on and hope the gas companies get here soon

Stonebroke
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: ljmathias on December 01, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
Radar: you done it now!  Not only is the cat out of the bag, but probably all the way to NY where Stone will hear it and come moving south... what we don't need down here are more da*n Yankees (being one myself, I know how undesirable they are as neighbors).  BTW, in case you hadn't heard: a yankee is a visitor from the north that comes and spends lots of money and then goes home; the ones that come and stay, those are the da*ned kind...

Lj
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: paul case on December 01, 2009, 08:22:20 PM
i didnt know. i have trouble pickn up accents.  8) pc
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: fishpharmer on December 01, 2009, 08:27:06 PM
My taxes are outrageous.  Almost as high as our snow drifts. :D  Ag exemption helps.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Radar67 on December 01, 2009, 08:31:28 PM
LJ, the cat will jump back in. When they have to deal with the heat, they won't stay long. My main curiosity is this, just where does the money come from? High taxes, need lots of gas or wood for heat, snow blowers, etc... do the jobs up there pay that much higher? I just did some figuring and bare bones, just paying my bills and utilities, I could live a year on stonebroke's yearly tax money and still have a little left.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: fishpharmer on December 01, 2009, 08:42:27 PM
Radar, good questions.

Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jason.weir on December 01, 2009, 10:33:22 PM
you guys are bad luck - just this evening I had the local building inspector ask me about my lack of a building permit for a little shed I'm building

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,32937.0.html

Since you can't see it from the road - he's got some questions to answer before I get my permit..

-J
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: treecyclers on December 01, 2009, 10:39:58 PM
Quote from: Radar67 on December 01, 2009, 08:31:28 PM
just where does the money come from? High taxes, need lots of gas or wood for heat, snow blowers, etc... do the jobs up there pay that much higher?

Actually, they pay next to nothing in most cases, and you're still getting hammered on taxes at about 29% on payroll.
Simply put, it doesn't pay to work for anyone else, and it's tough to make a fair buck working for yourself.
NY is on a steady run into the chasm of socialism welfare state, and it's getting close to the hot stuff near the bottom.
Can't squeeze blood from a turnip, and the exodus has already begun.
I've only been back here in NY for about 2 months, and I already hate it.
Heck, I think that even the deer have run off. Only saw 2 does all season, and they were out of range!
I'm going back to Arizona. At least people there (for the most part) have their head and hiney wired together, taxes aren't stupid obnoxious, and firearms laws are near the easiest in the US.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: James P. on December 01, 2009, 10:42:13 PM
Jason , sorry to hear you've had company. I suspect your curious of his dropping in. was it random or reported. sorry to here about the f2. when I was a little kid I had nightmares about tornadoes on the horizon and or Godzilla. Always heading for my parents row house in the city. There were always several tornadoes or Godzilla miles away staring right at me.  :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Magicman on December 01, 2009, 10:49:54 PM
Tell him that since you aren't using a building contractor, you didn't know that you needed one..... ;D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 02, 2009, 05:54:59 AM
When we went through a government program to build a packing shed from wood, the only requirement was to have engineered plans. We cut our own framing timber (white spruce), hauled to local mill and brought it home green. Framed it all from our own lumber and nothing was said about it. I asked dad some time ago about using our own lumber in that building after reading about all the heart ache some of you guys go through using ungraded lumber in buildings. Dad told me "it was all grade 1 lumber".  :D 8) No one in government had any issues with it. It's been standing for 20 years, insured and sold when he retired, so it's definitely mortgaged as well.  ;D

All these old houses are built from local spruce, rough sawn. Seems like a waist of time and added cost for mills to plane spruce framing timber. You don't need a smooth timber hidden in a wall or under a floor. Hardwood isn't planed until it's used for furniture, moldings, trim and such. Seems ash backwards don't it?  ;D

Sometimes these inspector types aren't the best diplomats or pleasant people to be out there doing what they do. Others are pleasant and much nicer to communicate with, offer easy solutions or let you down easy if they have to turn you down. It's a thankless job in many instances I'm sure. ;)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jdtuttle on December 02, 2009, 06:16:39 AM
QuoteI see posts from two others in NY State, one in Carlisle near where I grew up (Delanson NY) and Candor near where I live now ( Sempronius, Cayuga Co.) .
I ask how their taxes are.
Pete, I pay 5,000 per year for 16 acres a house, garage, shop & mill building. There still going up :(
jim
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 02, 2009, 06:20:47 AM
Wow  :o I pay less than $500 for house, 4 acre lot, barn, and storing building. Power only to the house.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: breederman on December 02, 2009, 06:39:30 AM
If you guys don't stop telling us how cheap it is to live elsewhere, the only ones left to turn out the lights will be our blind governor and stupid legislators.  >:(
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jdtuttle on December 02, 2009, 06:48:42 AM
QuoteIf you guys don't stop telling us how cheap it is to live elsewhere, the only ones left to turn out the lights will be our blind governor and stupid legislators. 
ditto ;D
jim
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jason.weir on December 02, 2009, 07:57:50 AM
Quote from: Magicman on December 01, 2009, 10:49:54 PM
Tell him that since you aren't using a building contractor, you didn't know that you needed one..... ;D

Unfortunately he knows better - but I'll play the game..

-J
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Engineer on December 02, 2009, 08:19:26 AM
Hey my Noo Yawk neighbors,

My taxes are a hair over six grand annually for a house on 3.3 acres.  They haven't assessed my shed or woodshed yet, the woodshed is an outlaw building.  If the local code guy shows up (which he won't), I'll demonstrate that the woodshed is portable - four strong men can pick it up and move it around.

I'd love to move to a place that has lower taxes, but everyplace else seems to have other problems that I like even less.  Mississippi, you're safe from me, I couldn't easily live much south of PA without hating the heat.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on December 02, 2009, 08:25:35 AM
I am waiting for my five to six fold tax increase, we havent been reassessed in 20+ years. Liveing cheap for now. Not looking forward to that change.

Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: EmannVB on December 02, 2009, 08:40:33 AM
Taxes and government intervention were the reason I landed where I did.  Being from NY, I really wanted to go back there, but just couldn't stomach the taxes and regulation.

I have 53 acres, with a new 32X48 barn and a house- I pay $450 a year in taxes.  Oh, and we don't need a building permit (only required if you're living in the flood plain), so I can build what I want, where I want, when I want!  When the project is finished, I'm supposed to notify the tax assessor so I can be taxed appropriately.

Less government, more freedom.  I like it like that.  8)

Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Chris Burchfield on December 02, 2009, 09:27:04 AM
There is only one county in Tennessee that does not require a Building Permit. Obion County in the Northwest corner. You do have to have a permit for your septic system, which has to be approved on completion or the power company will not turn your power on. Shame not to have a light in the outhouse.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Magicman on December 02, 2009, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: Chris Burchfield on December 02, 2009, 09:27:04 AM
You do have to have a permit for your sepic system, which has to be approved on completion or the power company will not turn your power on. Shame not to have a light in the outhouse.  :D :D :D

Oh No.....a "DO DO" permit...... :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: sdunston on December 02, 2009, 08:56:02 PM
Quote from: jdtuttle on December 02, 2009, 06:48:42 AM
QuoteIf you guys don't stop telling us how cheap it is to live elsewhere, the only ones left to turn out the lights will be our blind governor and stupid legislators. 
ditto ;D
jim
double ditto
And if the price of electricity keeps going up around here there wont be the need to even turn out the lights 8)
Sam
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 06, 2009, 10:07:07 AM
Quote from: jdtuttle on December 01, 2009, 10:25:30 AM
I agree with most of what's been said about being able to build on your own land. However, my experience as a home inspector has shown me what some people build & then sell to unsuspecting buyers. 2x6 floor joists spanning 18 feet, undesized load bearing lumber, faulty & dangerous electrical & plumbing. We are a reactive society. After a few deaths from poor construction practices we passed laws. Now we are passing more laws & many are just plane old ridiculous. I know because I have to enforce some of them as a code officer.  ;)
jim

So Jim, does your office use satellite imagery for code enforcement?
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 06, 2009, 10:12:40 AM
Holy cow-

Everybody is always bashing California, but I almost choked over the numbers some of you guys are paying for property taxes.

California has the great Howard Jarvis Prop 13, and they cannot increase our taxes over 1 percent a year. Taxes are based on 1.1 percent of our properties purchase price.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 06, 2009, 10:41:37 AM
My 70 acres of woods is less than $30 a year.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: fishpharmer on December 06, 2009, 10:43:29 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 06, 2009, 10:41:37 AM
My 70 acres of woods is less than $30 a year.

But how much is fuel and income taxes? ;D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 06, 2009, 10:52:57 AM
What would it cost for major surgery, cancer treatments and a 2 week stay in the hospital? :D

I get tax credits back either income or HST or both at times. I think my income tax is around 15% and we have a basic exception before the tax kicks in.

Other than poultry and milk, food is just as cheap here as in Maine. Those items are artificially high here since marketing boards control it's pricing and that began in the late 70 or early eighties. We pay way more for cheese and milk than even in Europe, where their fuel is way higher than ours.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 06, 2009, 11:14:28 AM
I was just on a beef tour of a farm over in Columbia county NY where the owner pays just over 50,000$ on 960 acres. He rents it to a beef farmer.

Stonebroke
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 06, 2009, 11:29:35 AM
The heck with it. The next home I build is going to be underground earth berm, and no- I will NOT be pulling a permit...  ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 06, 2009, 11:50:26 AM
Farmland here under the Farmland Identification Program (FLIP) is maybe $250 per 100 acres. If you subdivide, than back taxes are owed, but not if your son builds a home and farms the land. The farmland has to be kept in production as well, so rented or leased if not farmed by you. Forest land is hardly worth the government to make out the tax papers.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: zopi on December 06, 2009, 10:06:09 PM
Heh..reading plicketycat's web links and reading about the low impact reciprocal roofs...line your roof over with pond liner, and put sod on it...when it gets too tall,
add geese as appropriate...spy planes have a tough time seeing that'specially if it's back in the woods a bit...

Shoulda been a bootlegger...
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 06, 2009, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: zopi on December 06, 2009, 10:06:09 PM
Heh..reading plicketycat's web links and reading about the low impact reciprocal roofs...line your roof over with pond liner, and put sod on it...when it gets too tall,
add geese as appropriate...spy planes have a tough time seeing that'specially if it's back in the woods a bit...

Shoulda been a bootlegger...

Where are "plicketycat's web links and reading about the low impact reciprocal roofs" links?

That's exactly what I would do- build a heavy post and beam stucture, into the hillside. Metal roof it, the water proof membrane the whole thing with proper drainage like Rob Roy's books show, then sod the roof.

I've got the perfect spot, with an awesome view, all bordered by national forest, totally private.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: fishpharmer on December 06, 2009, 10:55:55 PM
http://www.jenninewardle.com/
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 06, 2009, 11:43:54 PM
OK- those guys are positively nuts ... :D

Wall Tent?
I've got a friend of mine who keeps trying to talk me into moving to AK.  Forgetaboutit.

Wall Tent? ... :o ;D
I would have trailered in enough lumber and materials to build a one room cabin with 12" stud walls instead of the darn tent. Anything.

Wall Tent? ... :D
We live dead remote in the forest off grid, in a pretty darn small house, BUT I made sure we have hot and cold running water, heat, cooling, and a dry shelter. They owe it to their pets if nothing else to get it together...   ::)  ..:D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: zopi on December 07, 2009, 07:03:50 AM
If nothing else... http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

I wonder if they make them R-34+
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: ely on December 07, 2009, 10:26:10 AM
thankfully i do not deal with any of the issues talked about in this thread. taxes are cheep compared to those mentioned but still are taxes.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 07, 2009, 10:38:01 AM
Quote from: zopi on December 07, 2009, 07:03:50 AM
If nothing else... http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

I wonder if they make them R-34+


I see problems on so many levels- what if one of them or both got sic or real hurt? What if a bear came rippin' through there, and they lost the keys to their truck during the calamity and got hurt?

The potential for serious harm, and even death with no recourse is a hiccup away. You would be hypothermic by the time you figured something out.

Why not trailer in a bunch of 2x10's, insulation, sheathing and metal roofing, couple windows and a door- you could put up a tite 10x14 building with mud room entrance and sleeping loft in not much more time in it than the wall tent.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: zopi on December 07, 2009, 11:44:16 AM
Dunno..wasn't my problem to solve..it's interesting though..I'd probably start out much like you say...several hundred miles farther south...
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: ErikC on December 07, 2009, 01:06:55 PM
  Hey JP, hows it been going? We think alike it seems, I live on the other side of the valley though. I have a wall tent for hunting, with the woodstove it's pretty comfy. But If I was fixin to stay in one place over about a month I would build a shed or cabin of some sort for sure.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 07, 2009, 01:31:45 PM
Hi Eric,

Things are going very well with a lot of hard work this year. 9 dregrees on the porch this morning...  8)

We need to meet and grab a cup of coffee some day in town.

Take care,.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: ErikC on December 07, 2009, 08:55:51 PM
 Yeah, pretty cold here too. Have any frozen pipes? I had some. ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jeep534 on December 08, 2009, 07:32:03 AM
Quote from: campy on November 29, 2009, 09:49:36 PM
The oak boards I cut laugh at a nail gun.
Maybe if there was a way to shoot nails into our hardwood we could compete better?
If there was a special nail or by using higher pressure.
Any ideas?

I had to use real Porter Cable smooth nails in my FR350 to go through the seasoned Poplar  but they are not really long enough to go through full dimension lumber
archie =) =) =)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: spencerhenry on December 09, 2009, 06:54:14 PM
i built a 5700 sq ft shop for some neighbors last year. no permit, it is an agricultural building. here you can build all the buildings you want for agricultural purposes. a friend at planning and zoning, who used to be the building inspector, told me i didnt need a permit for my shop as long as it was used for " the storage and maintenance of machinery used to maintain my property". i told him it would have a slab, no problem he said, i said it would have a bathroom, no problem he said, i said it would be heated, no problem. only becomes a problem if i use it for storing personal items, cars, toys, for running a business, or the like. good thing i have no life and dont do anything but work in the woods.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 09, 2009, 07:26:49 PM
Quote from: spencerhenry on December 09, 2009, 06:54:14 PMgood thing i have no life and dont do anything but work in the woods.

Don't beat yourself up. It ain't that bad. :D
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: easymoney on December 09, 2009, 07:49:59 PM
someone earlier said that there is only one county in tennessee that does not require a building permit. i live in lewis county and there is no county building permit required. just a septic tank permit and an electric inspection. the city of hohenwald has codes and inspection tho. my home is a 14x70 mobil home i have a couple of shop buildings and my taxes are less than $50.00 per year. we have a solid waste fee that is about $80.00 per year. so living here can be very cheap if you do not require a fancy home.
if i had to pay the taxes that some of you pay i would have to sell my house and move to the projects.
my lot is approximately 1/2 acre and is in a decent neighborhood. all paid for. i am living on social security
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 09, 2009, 09:21:35 PM
Quote from: easymoney on December 09, 2009, 07:49:59 PM
someone earlier said that there is only one county in tennessee that does not require a building permit. i live in lewis county and there is no county building permit required. just a septic tank permit and an electric inspection. the city of hohenwald has codes and inspection tho. my home is a 14x70 mobil home i have a couple of shop buildings and my taxes are less than $50.00 per year. we have a solid waste fee that is about $80.00 per year. so living here can be very cheap if you do not require a fancy home.
if i had to pay the taxes that some of you pay i would have to sell my house and move to the projects.
my lot is approximately 1/2 acre and is in a decent neighborhood. all paid for. i am living on social security
That is how come a million and a  half people moved out of NY state.  We just cannot afford it any more.
stonebroke
Ston
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: submarinesailor on December 10, 2009, 07:25:05 AM
Quote from: stonebroke on December 09, 2009, 09:21:35 PM
That is how come a million and a  half people moved out of NY state.  We just cannot afford it any more.
stonebroke
Ston
[/quote]

Stoney,

I think most of them moved to northern Virginia - DamG such a bunch of people!!!!!!!!

Bruce
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 10, 2009, 09:22:32 AM
A lot of them kept going to the carolinas and florida.

Stonebroke

Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 10, 2009, 09:27:04 AM
Yea- and a lot of those same people move in and vote for the same idiotic laws and politicians that caused the problem they ran from in the first place, to start the same problem all over again...  ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: petefrom bearswamp on December 10, 2009, 07:14:46 PM
Hello All,
Been chasing the wily (and very scarce, only got 2 so far) whitetail deer here and haven't been on lately.
To my other long suffering New  Yorkers, I would move from here in a heartbeat except here in the Finger Lakes region I have everything i love.
Hunting, Fishing, great scenery, good wines and a lot of good friends, not to mention grandkids (9) and 1 great granddaughter that I couldn't get my wife away from.
I know I wouldn't want to have to bear the heat in the deep south in spite of the gracious and polite people who inhabit the land there and I mean that sincerely in spite of being a born and bred yankee.
The near south, Virginia, West (by God) Virginia, The old north state, Tennessee Kentucky etc are inviting tho.
I have put my mill to bed for the winter here as I can't keep warm enough with the computerized mill when I saw alone.
Regards to everyone and a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Pete
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Ironwood on December 10, 2009, 08:19:46 PM
Pete good to hear from you. You may want to mention that the DEEP snow makes milling and outdoor stuff somewhat difficult in your region also. My MIL lives a few miles up the lake from Pete. I have more than once shovelled out 3' snow banks to get my trucks into her driveway (usually in the middle of the night in a snow storm, coming back from the Adirondack winter outings). Things get seriously winter like near Pete's place.  ;).

            Ironwood
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: backwoods sawyer on December 11, 2009, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: jpgreen on December 10, 2009, 09:27:04 AM
Yea- and a lot of those same people move in and vote for the same idiotic laws and politicians that caused the problem they ran from in the first place, to start the same problem all over again...  ::)
Hmmm that sounds fermilure. California is in the crapper so they move north and vote for the same laws that put California in the crapper in the first place. You folks on the east coast should not feel alone as the west coast has its "New York" to. ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Raider Bill on December 11, 2009, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: easymoney on December 09, 2009, 07:49:59 PM
someone earlier said that there is only one county in tennessee that does not require a building permit. i live in lewis county and there is no county building permit required. just a septic tank permit and an electric inspection. the city of hohenwald has codes and inspection tho. my home is a 14x70 mobil home i have a couple of shop buildings and my taxes are less than $50.00 per year. we have a solid waste fee that is about $80.00 per year. so living here can be very cheap if you do not require a fancy home.
if i had to pay the taxes that some of you pay i would have to sell my house and move to the projects.
my lot is approximately 1/2 acre and is in a decent neighborhood. all paid for. i am living on social security

No permits needed in Mc Minn Co Tenn either other than Septic and Elec. You can't get elec without a septic. Actually if you put in a mobile home you need a state inspection in addition to the septic and elec. but you can build a complete house without. I did. This is not in a city though. I do know that City's and municpalities require building permits.

I
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: easymoney on December 11, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
here in middle tennessee we are getting more than our share of people from the north moving in running up property values and pushing for codes and regulations. some are very vocal about their contempt for mobile homes and such. they figure if you cant build a mansion you should live in the projects.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Raider Bill on December 11, 2009, 11:00:06 AM
Quote from: easymoney on December 11, 2009, 10:45:01 AM
here in middle tennessee we are getting more than our share of people from the north moving in running up property values and pushing for codes and regulations. some are very vocal about their contempt for mobile homes and such. they figure if you cant build a mansion you should live in the projects.

First let me say that I'm what you guys call a "part time half back" Oridinally from the North, moved to the south have built in Tenn. Half way back.

That said,

I see and hear what you said all the time. I built a bigger than I needed house in Tenn, live and learn but I also have 2 friends that moved from Fl to my Property one has built a 750 sqft log cabin the other brought in a singlewide. obviously I have no problem with mobiles.
I bought and built there to get away from the rules, live a quiet peaceful back to basics life style but I do understand what's going on.
I think the influx from Florida is over, theres no money here anymore to buy and build. I can't speak for the North.

Here in the great concrete and palm tree jungle you need a permit and inspection to change a light switch, swap out a window, pretty much to sneeze. I understand they want to collect more fees and limit sub par work but it's crazy what you can't do.
I have a rental that the wall A/C unit just went out on, Need a permit to swap it out........ Yeah sure I'll get right down there and apply. ;)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Larry on December 11, 2009, 01:02:02 PM
I think the Federal clean water act pretty much mandated the states to move on septic systems.  That's ok with me cause I sorta like clean water...but ya give em an inch.... 

When I put in my septic system a few years ago I had to hire a geologist to design it.  She came out and had a pit dug so she could record the soil types.  Than she made a fancy drawing of a septic system for a 3 bedroom house.  When I got the drawing I also got a $500 bill.  My licensed septic installer told me exactly how the geologist would design my system before she ever showed up. 

We already paid tax dollars for a nation wide soil's map.  A septic system design for a 3 bedroom house is child's play.  So what purpose did my $500 geologist serve?

Of course, since the plumbing is connected to the septic tank that opened the door for the county to do a plumbing inspection.  I'm waiting for the next shoe to drop at any time.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: DanG on December 11, 2009, 01:15:28 PM
I've noticed over the years that areas where there were no regs before, and new regs are put in place, they usually go overboard with strictness.  In areas where regs have existed all along tend to stick with the older, less severe rules.

I've had 2 septic systems approved for this place.  In both cases, a County Health Dept. inspector came out and bored a little hole.  When they located a little red stripe in the soil which indicates the "mean high water" level, they could tell if the drain field had to be in a mound(and how high), of could be in the ground.  In both cases, that service and all other inspections were included in the $250 permit fee.  I couldn't find much to complain about there. :) :)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Raider Bill on December 11, 2009, 01:25:00 PM
Same here, Lady came out, looked around asked me how many bedrooms signed a paper and left. No perk test no nothing. $250.00 Pretty much Painless.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: irishcountry on December 11, 2009, 01:39:37 PM
  I don't chime in much but in my book if you were sold property and bought it then you own it period you should be able to do what you want when you want thats my definition of "free country" so tired of people poking their noses in other peoples business and pockets its sick "free" is only a matter of perception and I think we as Americans still have it better than alot of countries in the world but I wouldn't go as far as to say we have freedom as our founding fathers seen it!!--- Now all that complaining aside where are some states/towns where you can afford a decent amount of acerage plus build pretty much what you want out of what you want including wood you mill yourself without jumping through hoops or selling body parts to pay the taxes???
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: jpgreen on December 11, 2009, 01:49:34 PM
It all comes down to people in government keeping their jobs at all costs plain and simple. They do this by taxing and regulating, and having control over us. The more they can take, the more their jobs are secure.

It it's going to get worse in every part of this country, as this is a self defeating monopoly. They will crash and burn each and every one of us in the process, and then ultimately they crash and burn as there will be nothing left to take.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: irishcountry on December 11, 2009, 02:15:08 PM
  Agreed Jpgreen the "fall of rome" so to speak been seeing it happen from the inside out for a long long time its very sad that greed and corruption have taken over and no one seems to even want to look at it seems most people  nowadays do not have time to look outside of their own lives because its so busy and they are trying to only work and hold onto what they still do have.  I think it will take a total collapse before we really get the "change" that everyone is looking for like you said won't be alot left to fight over when no one has anything~!~
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Raider Bill on December 11, 2009, 02:48:22 PM
Well............... I before I bought my property I looked at some places that didn't have a septic system just let it run out on the ground. Now I'm not a big brother fan but I do like to know my waters safe.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 11, 2009, 03:08:25 PM
On my hill in NYS (and most of the rest of the county) the only septic they will approve is a aboveground systems with special hauled in dirt. 20 to 30 grand. Keeps out the riff raff and most normal people.

Stonebroke
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: Raider Bill on December 11, 2009, 03:22:11 PM
Quote from: stonebroke on December 11, 2009, 03:08:25 PM
On my hill in NYS (and most of the rest of the county) the only septic they will approve is a aboveground systems with special hauled in dirt. 20 to 30 grand. Keeps out the riff raff and most normal people.

Stonebroke

Yikes! Dang glad I don't live in NYS anymore!

Is that because of rock and not being able to perk?
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: stonebroke on December 11, 2009, 03:34:23 PM
shallow to bedrock ,lotsa springs ,crappy soil you name it we have it. Course they don't take into account you may be draining into a 100 pasture and it might be 1/2 mile to a watercourse. Rules is Rules. Made all the old houses and fallen down shacks worth more because they don't want to know about present systems. Guess They can only abuse so many people at a time.

Stonebroke
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: pasbuild on December 11, 2009, 05:18:56 PM
A friend was building an equipment building at his sand pit, the health inspector told him he would need a mound system for his drain field, this was right in the same sand pit that he took sand from for 90% of all of the drain fields in the area. ::)
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: maple flats on December 11, 2009, 07:32:36 PM
In NYS we are allowed to use rough cut for code buildings. The sawyer must sign a statement that the codes inspector supplies that everything is #2 or better. There is no training or certification required for a sawyer to sign this. I have so far signed 3 of them. I use as a basis a comparison with the junk one buys at the big box stores. I cut up and burn anything that even comes close to the poorer of what I see labeled #2 in those stores. I use it to make maple syrup. That is why I have no problem selling my lumber even though it is about the same price as those stores. Quality sells.
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: irishcountry on December 11, 2009, 10:53:36 PM
  pasbuild   Now that is funny!!!!
Title: Re: Outlaw buildings
Post by: SwampDonkey on December 12, 2009, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: maple flats on December 11, 2009, 07:32:36 PM
I use as a basis a comparison with the junk one buys at the big box stores.

All they sell in the yards here is utility grade softwood. They try to price it as #1. I said there isn't a stick in these bundles number one, boys. Better drop the price.  ;) For some reason the yards buy on the cheap and try to make a killing.