How many times have you left a job site Friday, knowing that you would finish up in a couple of days. Then when you get back Monday morning.....the pile grew.
This job started out with 12-15 SYP logs and about that many ERC and I knew that the customer was staging logs in two other locations. I finished the first one this afternoon and drove down to look at the second. What a surprise. Fifty-one 16', 18' and 20' logs scattered out for 150 yards. And this is just the second staging area. He said that the biggest logs are at the third.
One thing for sure.....I'll be here for a few days..... :) Looks like money to me..... smiley_thumbsup
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0808%7E0.JPG)
First whack of SYP & ERC logs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0815.JPG)
Finished the SYP and this stack of ERC.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0812.JPG)
51 logs stretched out along a skid road
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0814.JPG)
51 logs looking back toward the truck.
why don't people pile their wood on trailers right off the saw? if they arnt stickering right on site. way to much wasted energy, touch it once and be done with it ...
Now that is a whack of logs.
"Saw, saw, saw, catch me if you can. You can't catch me, I'm the Magicman!" :D.
I had one like that a couple of years ago.
I went in expecting to saw around 2,500-3,000 bf and (mother nature interfered with this one) we ended up sawing well over 12,000 bf.
The only way that it really bothers me is when I have plans to be somewhere else on a specific date.
There's good money in it though!
Cheers.
Quote from: Chuck White on May 14, 2010, 09:24:15 PM
The only way that it really bothers me is when I have plans to be somewhere else on a specific date.
Cheers.
That's why I never give appointments any more past the job that I am sawing. When I finish here, I'll call the next customer and set up a date. When I get there, I'll stay as long as he has logs. I have not lost any jobs scheduling this way.
Quote from: red oaks lumber on May 14, 2010, 09:13:14 PM
why don't people pile their wood on trailers right off the saw?
Someone has his trailer borrowed hauling hay. He is really not happy about the double handling..... >:(
MM, that is a big job. What does he plan to do with all the boards?
Quote from: brdmkr on May 14, 2010, 10:23:00 PM
MM, that is a big job. What does he plan to do with all the boards?
A two story addition on his home.
Man, I would love to have some of that action. That's alot of wood.
Quote from: red oaks lumber on May 14, 2010, 09:13:14 PM
why don't people pile their wood on trailers right off the saw? if they arnt stickering right on site. way to much wasted energy, touch it once and be done with it ...
Most of my customers will have a truck, trailer or hay wagon running gear on site, ready to stack with lumber.
You're right it cuts out a lot of handling!
I have two similar jobs that are being bunched now. Matter of fact, one of the customers stopped by here yesterday to see how this saw job was progressing. They are trying to work the "old man" down..... :o :) :D
Were those dead trees or does the bark come off that easy?
Stonebroke
Quote from: stonebroke on May 15, 2010, 08:34:00 AM
Were those dead trees or does the bark come off that easy? Stonebroke
They are all beetle killed SYP. No commercial sawmill will buy these logs. These type jobs are generally large, because the customer saws all of the trees that he has rather than how much lumber that he needs. Many times, they will sell the excess lumber to neighbors to recover sawing cost.
The bark may shed while standing and surely while skidding. That makes it nice for sawing. Very little dirt to worry about. Also, this lumber is very stable because it has partially dried while standing. Stress is generally minimal.
That will keep you out of trouble for a day or two, keep the sawdust flying & play safe!
8) 8)
Dave
we're doing one of those grow jobs, started out to be 13,000 b.f. once they got done trucking logs in we're at just over 35,000 b.f., the only complaint i have is i'm looking at just over 100,000 b.f. pine sitting in my mill yard and the summer heat season is nippin at my heals..
Thankfully I don't have to saw your logs. 10K-12K bf per month is about my normal. I'll get my 1 million bf fairly soon, but I don't want to reach it "next week"...... :)
How come commercial mills won't buy it? Doesn't it make good lumber.
Stonebroke
Beetle killed SYP usually will exhibit blue stain caused by the excretions of the beetles. Also, commercial mills have no way of knowing how long the trees have been dead and whether the lumber will meet strength/grade requirements.
I have to closely watch the lumber for that telltale "orange color tint", and discard any lumber/logs that have gone too far. Sawdust is an indicator also.
Notice the "sawyer" holes in the third log pictured below. I will slab 2"-3" to get below them. You just have to watch and read each log to produce quality lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0808.JPG)
These logs above were not the best quality.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0812.JPG)
These are good solid logs and will produce quality lumber.
m.m i just hate when spring time comes and everyone hauls pine in for sawying, i'm with you 10-12k/mo is more managable.this year most all of the logs are 8'. so for 2 guys cutting 1" lumber getting 2200- 2500 b.f / day isn't to bad.
Sawing dimensional framing lumber really increases daily bf numbers. Thankfully, that is what the greatest majority of my sawing business is.
Yes the 2x makes the numbers go up. But you are busy, nice doesn't matter the numbers but no old guys die before their time :D
That is a nice bunch of logs and should make some great lumber. It is always amazing how some customers only want a little bit of wood, then as you start sawing they get to thinking about all the other things they want to build and head out to get more logs. I have even loaned my chain saw once so the customer wouldn't have to go back to his house to get his.
I've left a saw job many times on Friday evening, only to return Monday morning and find more logs than the customer had at the beginning of the job. That's another reason why I don't give/make appointments beyond the job that I am sawing. Many times, I just have no way of knowing when I will finish..... :)
Looks like a whole whack of job security.Frank C.
Yeah, well, whack of this, whack of that, and pretty soon we got a whicky-whack, paddy whack, dig your dog a bone (or some such). ;D
Lj
I've sawed 7007 bf on this job so far. Looks like about 4 more days of sawing to finish.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0841.JPG)
1794 bf of mostly 20' framing lumber sawed in 6 hours today.
Great looking lumber Magicman.
What degree blades are you using?
Thanks, Papa. Since probably over 75% of my sawing is SYP, I use only 10° bands. That's what WM recommended when I bought the mill, and that's what I'm still using.
I really do need a box of something else for when I have to saw White Oak. Especially dry White Oak..... :-\
I just got some 4* blades and they cut the hardest oak I have and make a smooth straight cut!
Guess I need to try the 4* blades- cut some really dense pecan and no matter what we tried, got waves...
Magic: why 20' lengths on the framing lumber? Are they doing a balloon frame or is it just easier to cut 20' logs rather than bucking them. I certainly like handling shorter studs, although joists I like long and wide...
Lj
Quote from: ljmathias on May 21, 2010, 01:16:46 AM
Magic: why 20' lengths on the framing lumber? Are they doing a balloon frame or is it just easier to cut 20' logs rather than bucking them. I certainly like handling shorter studs, although joists I like long and wide...Lj
:) Lon, In the custom sawing business I never know what I will saw next. Sometimes (this one included) I wonder, but I never ask questions. I just saw it. I have to remove my seat to saw this 20' stuff, but that's just the way it is. Most of these logs are running 12"-16" little end. I have 6 more 20's to saw, and then I'll be sawing short stuff.
Probably 4 more days on this job and then I'll move to an ERC job. That will be "hourly rate".
I finished up the 51 logs plus the additional ones that he brought in to the second saw site on this job this afternoon. I'll move to the third site tomorrow. I've sawed 10,776 bf so far on this job.
His brother looked at the sawed lumber this weekend and decided to cut some trees and have me saw him some lumber. I might finish this job this week, and then again, I might not. :)
Saw jobs get bigger.
beetle kill,51 logs, 20'logs,more potential sawimg jobs,pay by the hour on an erc job. its all good sounds to me like anyhow. pc
I moved to the 3rd saw site today and managed to saw 2493 bf before quitting time.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0852.JPG)
Last load leaving the 2nd saw site, slab pile, and empty skid trail
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0854.JPG)
2493 sawed today at the 3rd saw site. There were 29, 2X6-16's that would not fit on the trailer.
nice save looks dandy. pc
That beetle killed timber looks nice to me. Proabably dry too.
Stonebroke
Quote from: stonebroke on May 27, 2010, 08:11:30 AM
That beetle killed timber looks nice to me. Proabably dry too. Stonebroke
Yes, very dry, but he got it out before the worms (sawyers) got to it too badly.
Squaring up the first log this morning and, guess what? No forward at times. That's strange. Flick the forward/reverse forward and backward. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. :-\
Remove the covers from the control box. Gotta remove the up/down solenoid panel before I can see the forward/reverse module with the LED's. Everything looks good. Increasing brightness as I turn the potentiometer. Call "Otto" at WM. He walks me through all of the tests. Intermittent contacts in the forward solenoid seems to be the problem. Well, after over 5300 hours, I would be intermittent also. ;)
Anyway, with the holiday, Tuesday should be delivery day. The solenoids are pricey, but I ordered a spare. That plus a set of motor brushed and a new brake band, I spent some change. I've sawed over 14K bf so far on this job, so it's OK. The customer really was pleased because he how has time to cut and skid up some more logs. ;D
I drove out and removed the old operator's seat from the mill and noticed Wednesday's lumber stacked in the hay barn
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0856.JPG). :)
Thats a nice saw job Magicman. What is a good fair charge per bf. on a project like that? I didn't plan on sawing for others, but a lot of people ar requesting me to saw some lumber for them. Leon
I just totaled up 13,980 bf so far on this job. I have 5 more pine logs left to saw, and he is considering bringing in some oak. I'll try to get a picture of the 10,776 bf stack if I catch it uncovered before I leave.
I regularly check our local newspaper as well as a statewide Market Bulletin. Advertised saw prices range from $160 to $300 per thousand. Some folks charge more for 1" and less for thicker. My saw price is about mid-point between these prices, and I charge the same, no matter what thickness. It averages out and is a lot simpler. ERC is sawed by the hour.
My business is virtually 100% portable sawing. I buy no logs and only sell lumber from free logs that are given to me. I usually price that lumber at only slightly above my saw price.
Every sawyer needs to develop the market that suits him and his sawing style. Determine what the majority of your customers want, and then make a reputation for yourself.
Do you have to still sticker beetle killed pine?
Stonebroke
I do. There is still enough moisture in most of it to cause mildew/mold problems.
Sawing beetle killed SYP is really a tricky business. They will skid some in that are too far gone. It will have that telltale "orange color tint" in the lumber as well as the sawdust. I continually watch the sawdust color. Sometimes, I'll discard a whole log after partially sawing it. I don't charge for this. The customer knows and appreciates it. When sawing thousands of bf of logs/lumber, that's just part of doing business. This "too far gone" lumber really dries fast and makes good stickers.
MM, it sounds like your experience with beetle killed pine is the same as mine. The only sure way to tell if it's still good is to put a sawblade to it. I've burned my share of logs. Between my neighbor and I, we just finished sawing over 5000 bd ft of it into stickers. Otherwise, most of it would have gone to the burn pile. Harvesting beetle killed pine is a bit different also. It can be rather un-predictable when it comes to felling. The but cut is usually brittle, and the hinge wood is prone to snap off early, allowing the tree to fall in just about any direction. I never use a wedge, it puts too much stress on the hinge. For cases where I absolutely need to drop one precisely, I have a 200 ft cable and a big tractor.
Probably surprisingly to most folks, that butt cut is generally the worst log. The bark will hang to it holding moisture and also termites will do their most damage there. Lopping off that bottom 6'-8' produces a better "first cut" log.
Also, termites carry dirt up their trails under the bark. Dirt dulls blades. >:(
The trees don't all die at the same time, so you have varying degrees of problems. Just part of doing business. ;)
that bad butt log is backwards to what i would expect from a dead or dying tree. just when you think you have it all figured out ??
some folks have gotten upset with me over the junk log thing. i have one guy that said he would just take his logs somewhere else.it was a red oak that had heart rot on both ends that covered 2/3 of the log. i told him i was saving him some money by not cutting it. i even offered to load it back up for him since he had dumped it out of a dump trailer. he changed his mind and gave me the log which was cut up for firewood.
that made a repeat customer out of him. he hasnt brought a bad one since.pc
Do the beetles kill a whole woods or is it just a tree here and there?
Stonebroke
Quote from: Magicman on May 29, 2010, 10:36:58 AM
Probably surprisingly to most folks, that butt cut is generally the worst log. The bark will hang to it holding moisture and also termites will do their most damage there. Lopping off that bottom 6'-8' produces a better "first cut" log.
I had a guy tell me that awhile back. I told myself, that he was crazy. Well...........turns out he was right and I was the crazy one.
Quote from: stonebroke on May 29, 2010, 02:38:54 PM
Do the beetles kill a whole woods or is it just a tree here and there?
Stonebroke
It depends on the species of beetle. The Ips and the Black Turpentine beetle usually only kill a few trees at a time in a cluster. The clusters may contain 3 to 5 trees. On the other hand, the Southern Pine Beetle tends to swarm like locusts when their population peaks, and they can kill many acres at a time in a moving swath of pine death. I have seen 80 acres killed. Fortunately, the Southern Pine Beetle population does not peak to this level very often. So, it is not uncommon to see a quarter of an acre killed in one spot, and there can be several spots in close proximity.
The isolated bug kills where there is the scattered tree or a small cluster of a few trees is usually Ips, and they attack trees that are weakened due to drought, fire damage, logging scars from equipment knocking off the bark, lightening strikes, excessive compaction, etc. They are just doing a job. The Southern Pine Beetle can be a real scourge and do thousands of dollars of damage on a property in short order when the population is at the peak of their cycle.
Also, the beetles attack different portions of the tree. The Ips bettle usually attacked the upper 1/3 of the crown. Black Turpentine only attacks at the base of the tree. Southern Pine Beetle attacks diameter breast high and on up. Many times you can identify the species of beetle attacking a tree by where the attack is occurring.
Quote from: paul case on May 29, 2010, 02:29:00 PM
that bad butt log is backwards to what i would expect from a dead or dying tree. just when you think you have it all figured out ??
Paul, What I was referring to is when a tree stands for an extended period of time, and termites start doing their job. If the bark hasn't slipped, they travel between the log and bark. Also the bark holds moisture which will start the rot process.
Trees may die over a period of many months, and the landowner may be delayed in removing them. By then, the first to die may be too far gone. If the tree breaks when it is felled, then it is too far gone for sure. :-\
On this job that I am now sawing, the landowner had the tract thinned. He then decided to burn it. There was too much fuel on the ground, and he got many of his trees too hot. He now had logging scars plus fire damage.
mm,
that sounds like adding insult to injury!
the old oak trees that we deal with here very seldom are killed by bugs. carpenter ants are the worst and they will attack the red oaks. the ones that are left standing when dead from say a lightening strike, the top dies and limbs fall out first and they may be rotten . the butt log will still be ok. not great but ok. so thats kinda backwards from what im used to. pc
There were 20 logs on the saw site when I set up this morning. Three Cherrybark Oak logs and the rest SYP. I started sawing and a helper was skidding more logs. I sawed a dozen oaks, and there were 2 left when we got rained out. There were over 50 logs on the site when I left.
Yup, saw jobs still get bigger. :o
wow! nice
But, not all logs are good. I have to really watch that beetle killed SYP and reject/cull logs that won't make lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0948.JPG)
Only the bottom left quarter is good. The rest is rotten. I did not saw this log.
I finished up yesterday, and since I figured that I had sweated enough, I decided to take off today. I was visiting around when a guy walked in. "Hey, I've been looking for you. I've got some logs to saw". This will be a new customer that I have never sawed for. Looks like I can't even take off a day without getting more work. :-\
Awe thats too bad, did he ruin your 1 day staycation by asking if he could line your wallet with his money?
im not trying to be a smart alleck but to us guys that havent had nearly as much work as you it sounds like a blessing when bussiness is good. pc
Oh, it was strictly "tongue in cheek".
I am very aware that I stay busy when two other sawyers in my county are advertising and still are scrapping for work. One even approached me saying that if I had more work than I could handle, he could help me. This guy was sawing 5 years before I was. My last two customers were his former customers. I never reveal to him or to anyone else who my customers are.
I'm a happy sawyer.
I started that Cherry job this morning. 51 mile drive, but I should easily finish tomorrow.
There were twenty-five 8' logs with the largest being 25" big end and the smallest was 14" on the small end. It's turning out some very nice 4/4 X 4, 6, 8, 10, & 12's.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0986.JPG)
It was shady this morning, but something happened this afternoon.
What happened? Did you perform some more of your Magic? :D
Was at Grand Lake , Co recently and the Pine Bettles have done some major damage. Out snowmobiling you could see thousands and thousands of lodgepole pine that were dead. It was disheartning to see so many dead trees. Most will go to waste. No way to harvest that many. If you watched the winter olympics the big building they were skating in to, the roof was built from 5 acres of Pine Beatle kill pine. They have the same problem in Vancover area. What a waste they are making.
That is some awful big cherry for your part of the country.
You are correct Danny. I finished that Cherry job this afternoon. These were the most consistent Cherries that I have ever sawed. Many logs were the same diameter on both ends. I imagine that those trees were 150+ years old. Some of them had some pith check, but not the first one had any sign of rot.
Today we got into the 22"+ logs, and sawed some 4/4 & 8/4 X 14" & 16", plus a couple of 16/4 mantels.
here on ne ok 10 miles can make a lot of difference in the size and quality of the timber. we are in oak and hardwood country. pines are kinda scarce. pc
I went and checked a job this afternoon for a repeat customer. I saw 10-20 thousand BF for him each year, and this will not be an exception. He still has to buck and stack them, but he has a trackhoe with a thumb on site. His logs are always clean.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0144.JPG)
8) 8) 8)
wow those are nice. what are they? what are you cutting out of them? pc
Oppps, I forgot to say that it is ERC and Cypress. It's always sawed 4/4 X whatever even width lumber that it will make up to 12". It usually is bucked 8' 6" lengths.
Those two whacks in the background will be sawed also, and he is not through hauling.
we dont have cypress here in ne ok . is that what the first pile is? pc
Looks like a sweaty job instore for you. bg
Quote from: paul case on August 06, 2010, 11:07:36 PM
is that what the first pile is? pc
Yes, Paul, the closest and the distant left pile are Cypress. The distant one has the largest logs. The two piles on the right are ERC. He still has to haul the remainder of his Cypress.
This is the way his logs will look when I get there.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0201.JPG)
Whack of ERC logs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0206.JPG)
Making them disappear
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0205.JPG)
Whacks of Cypress logs
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0207.JPG)
Making them disappear.
The largest that I have sawed for him was over 30 MBF. The above saw job was 8539 BF, and this next one will be larger. I love$ to saw for this customer.
A customer like that can sure spoil you. NICE!
They dont get any better then that ;D
thats purdy good mm. pc
Hey Magic,
Whats a guy like that use those for? Does he sell them or is he the type is always building barns, house, etc.? Not trying to pry, more curious than anything...
He uses some, but he also has a market and sells most of it. The Cypress will go to a kiln before using/selling. I've never asked, but I do know that it's loaded into a large enclosed trailer for transport.
He has a source for logs and a market for lumber. I'm just his sawyer. ;) :)
that aint all bad is it mm?
one or two more questions. do you cut off the sides and then just saw thru and thru or do you turn the cant on that job to try to get the best grade boards?
does he always set you up so nice as in the pics? looks like all of those may get in the afternoon shade. that with everything else you said i bet he is a prefered customer.pc
Quote from: paul case on August 07, 2010, 11:55:07 PM
do you cut off the sides and then just saw thru and thru
I generally turn 90° and saw through. (The ERC "Making them disappear" picture in reply #67 shows this.)
Quote from: paul case on August 07, 2010, 11:55:07 PM
do you turn the cant on that job to try to get the best grade boards?
He is looking for maximum width lumber. Turning generally reduces width. Grade lumber is not an issue with ERC. With Cypress, sawing through gives grade lumber with a few QS boards in the center, all maximum width.
Quote from: paul case on August 07, 2010, 11:55:07 PMdoes he always set you up so nice as in the pics?
Yes. :)
gotchya,
that makes things go a little faster when you can just saw boards and not have to stop andturn.this is generally the way its done at the case sawmill.pc
so when your on one of these larger sites with stacks of logs like this
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0206.JPG)
how do you do log handling? does the customer supply a small tractor with grapple or do you bring a skidsteer or something?
do they supply an offbearer to stack on there trailer or do you have help?
how do you manage slabs? or do you just make a pile and let the owner worry bout it?
On this site, the logs are simply rolled off of the stack to the mill. In the above picture, I only have a few logs to saw before moving the mill. I just move the mill up or back a bit to the next stack. No tractor/loader necessary. The slabs are piled and burned. The off bearer "Gabby" handles everything. I only step off of the mill during log setup.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0202.JPG)
Stacks of ERC logs ready for sawing. I left stack should be sawed first and then move the saw forward to the next.
A repeat customer and more beetle killed SYP. He's still pulling up logs, so I don't know how long this job will last. So far the logs are 24" to 31" diameter 16 footers. He wants all of the 1X12's that it will make. I haven't asked if it's for siding or paneling. I sawed over 5MBF of dimension framing lumber for him a couple of months ago.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1062_%28Medium%29.JPG)
I sawed over 2600BF of 16 foot 1X12's and I finished up what he had, BUT. Yup, I left the mill on site. He's skidding up more logs this weekend, so I'll just be back next week. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1071.JPG)
Over 2600 BF of stickered 16 foot 1X12's
Only 2 SYP logs to saw this morning before I move to the oak job, when the landowner asks about sawing some Sycamore. He has never seen any Sycamore lumber. OK, so he skids up 7 logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1092.JPG)
He takes a look at the 1X8's coming off of the mill and decides that he knows where some more Sycamore trees are.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1094.JPG)
Maybe I can get to the oak job next week. :-\
those look like some pretty good sycamore logs an lumber.more logs is a good thing huh? pc
I love to saw sycamore, but I hate trying to dry it without twist, cup and warp. If there is any appreciable sweep in sycamore, you are doomed from the start. Those logs look nice and straight.
Those logs were relatively straight. It was bucked into 8' logs and I sawed mostly 1X8's and they were stickered at 2'. Those trees had been down 3-4 months, but the wood was still really wet. We sawed out 1028 bf.
He is moving the lumber to an unenclosed shed which will provide easy air movement with no direct sunlight.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1096.JPG)
1028 bf of Sycamore.
Magicman, did you attempt to quartersaw as much of the lumber as possible?
No. He wanted as many 1X8's as possible and QS would have reduced this. There were about 4 QS boards per log. We could have flipped it and gotten 8 QS 1X4's, but that would have drastically reduced his 1X8's. There were a few knots and irregularities that made some very interesting figures.
This lumber will be planned and used for inside paneling.