The Forestry Forum

I would be interested in the Forum's opinions on the best method(s) to dry firewood for OWB use.  Stacked? Piled? Under cover or exposed?  Is the method used different for larger diameter pieces versus split?  Have any of these variables really been shown to speed the process of seasoning wood?  Given, say, six months of drying time, do any of these things matter?

Doctorb

Ideally I like to have my wood all split and stacked a year before I use it.  That's the ideal and rarely happens so I burn a lot of wood that is six months or less.  I do not cover the stacks.
There is a noticeable difference in burn characteristics and btu output.  The drier stuff definately works better.

OWW-

We are all in the same boat.  I'd love to have all next winter's fuel up before May, but it just doesn't seem to completely happen (Bass season!).  Has anyone tried to stack it (shed covered) and then use fans to better ventilate it?  I just wanted to know if any members take any action to influence the water content, other than letting time do its thing.  I see long outdoor stacks of wood with just the top covered to protect from the weather.  I see  stacks and piles completely covered with tarps (love the look of the blue tarps covering large wood piles with old tires to hold them down!).  I see piles of split and unsplit logs awaiting some signal that tells the owner that they are ready.  It would be nice if someone has studied this to determine the best method to get the maximum drying out of the minimum of time.

doctorb

lean-to open to the south. I have built a round tower in the past (has a name) and put a tarp on the top. I try to stay a season or two ahead but  ::)
The road to hell.

sawdust.

I stay a year or two ahead and cover it with the heavier duty silver tarps tied down good with rope and 2"-3"x6' branches on the tops. 24'x18'x5' stack on oak pallets with a foot spacing every 3 ranks. It works nice with the tarp tied down and the branches because the wind doesn't lift it like a parachute. The only thing that is a pain is the snow in the winter, would like to build a shed big enough to cure this, some day.  Tonto.

I began using firewood in 1976.  This is my first year to throw the tarps away and have a real woodshed.  Of course, I use only a fraction of what is needed further North, but I still lost some wood.  Tears happen and a percentage of wood always went to the beetles and rot.   :-\


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This is also my first year with a hydraulic splitter.   ;)

I palletize the split wood, and stack the pallets two high. Then toss a 5x5 tarp of rubber roofing over the top.
Not for outdoor boiler burning, but inside so I may split it finer than others with outdoors. But I have 2-3 years ahead now.

Used to stack the split wood under roof, but the racoon discovered it as their toilet dump, and what a mess. Only pest now are some mice, but a few packets of poison pellets take care of them at the appropriate time.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Firewood_18_pallets_ff.JPG)

If there was a best way, we wouldn't have all these variations on a theme.  Keep those wood seasoning examples coming.  They are informative and confirmative.  Pics are great and thanks to those before me.  I'll try to get a pic of my set-up and post.

Doctorb

this year on my outside piles I try to finish up on top on an angle sloping to the side of the side of the pile and put slabs cut side up on top as a roof. most of my wood is in a carport and an open polebarn

Quote from: beenthere on July 17, 2010, 07:52:17 PM
I palletize the split wood, and stack the pallets two high.

Wow, I was just trying to figure out how many years that would last me.   :o  At least three four !!!   :)

Magicman
That row is about 1/2 a winters worth. I use about 1 pallet a week to heat the house from early October through March, and some less the two months outside those 6.

when using only mother nature, always stack never pile and for quickest dry split all but the smallest and only stack 2 sticks wide and cover only the tops

BTW  the definition of seasoned wood up here is wood cut and split for at least 2 months between march and september, before being sold................no mention of stacking   that red oak cut in september and in a pile will still be nearly dead green 2 months later in early december the same red oak cut in march will be quite wet injune but the buyer would have june through sept to dry if well stacked and top covered

Three things for rapid seasoning: moving air, low relative humidity, lots of surface area.

My woodshed is basically a peaked roof with open sides all around. The roof is supported on 6x6 columns with a lattice of 1x4's on 16" centres for walls. The raised "floor" consists of 2x8's spaced 16" apart so air can move up from below. I always leave a foot of space between the top of the pile and the roof. This arrangement lets the air circulate easily and even a slight breeze has a tremendous drying effect.

Most of us can't do much about the local humidity. Moving air will at least counteract high humidity to some extent.

Lots of surface area = smaller pieces of wood. Every time you split a piece of wood, you increase the surface area. Kindling dries real fast ... it also burns up real fast. So it's a trade-off: dryer wood or longer burn. I tend to stack my bigger pieces first so they'll have more time to dry.

One thing about tarps -- they limit air movement and most of them will trap water vapour. The trapped vapour will increase the relative humidity under the tarp to nearly 100%. Whether you use a tarp or a roof, the key is "covered", not "wrapped".

I get mine delivered in May from fall harvests the previous year. I stack most of it right away in the basement and in the shop and leave a cord or so outside stacked and untarped. That wood is more seasoned and drives any excess moister from the basement stored wood, so by the time I get to it it's real dry for the furnace. My basement also has air flow on that wood with a window and basement door open. Storing your wood undercover keeps the bugs out. Was always bad for ground beetles now hardly see one. You will always have spiders, they cling to sticks of wood like a calf to a teat. Our spiders are harmless in these parts. One of the bennies of the north. :D

I spoke to a firewood delivery guy who's been doing this for years.  He does not believe that a full tarp is the best way to dry the wood.  While it protects it from rain, insects, and critters, he thinks that it slows the drying process considerably.  He recounted that one of his yearly customers went to a fancy rack to stack his firewood on a porch near his front door.  This rack came with a full length cover that extended to the ground.  The customer complained that his wood was wet when he went to burn it 4-5 months later, which had never been the case before.  (I have purchased wood from this gentleman on several occasions and it has uniformly been well-seasoned at delivery.  His wood is the most fire-ready wood I have ever purchased)  The only explanation he could give his customer was that the cover prevented further seasoning and perhaps made it worse.  Anyone have a similar inclination?

Doctorb

A full cover stops any air flow and could create some condensate.  In areas of steady snow accumulation a cover on top of the stacks will help remove the snow.  I leave my stacks open to the elements because I do not think the split wood absorbs enough water to justify any covering.  It does not take a lot of sunlight to evaporate the surface water.

Fall and cut live tree into 10' lengths, haul with forwarder to processor, processor cuts and loads into truck, haul home dump in shed in front of boiler and burn.  Repeat when the pile runs low  ;D ;D  Typical seasoning time a few hours to close to two weeks for the last of the pile  :) :)

You must know someone in the Biz. :D

I built a bunch of firewood caddies out old old pallets and scrap wood.  Basically, you take a pallet and set it on the ground use other pallets or scrap wood to make 2 sides and a roof an attach an old piece of metal roofing or ply wood or car hood or whatever on top.  If you got nice pallets for the base and bought the lumber for the sides and roof, they could look halfway decent if you needed them to.

I can then set these caddys out in a field with one side getting morning sun on one side and afternoon sun on the other.  The wind and sun do a decent job drying and come winter I will move these in close with my tractor.

I could see doing something similar with a truck frame and just wheel it to where you want it.  I even have a few junk TOyotas I plan to do this with, but have yet to get around to it.

If you want to dry wood faster, you can watch craigs list for free sliding glass door sets (or French doors if you can get them)and build upright boxes for your wood and use the door on the front to make a cheap solar kiln.

I just happen to know a guy  ;D ;D

I have a couple of firewood oaks that I will fell next week.  I don't have time, plus it's too darn hot to buck it up and split, so I'll just let it lay for a couple of weeks with the limbs/leaves on it.  Maybe the leaves will pull some moisture out of them?

Corley5

Do you use salt and pepper on that or just burn it plain?

Doctorb

Salt and pepper to taste  ;D ;D

I knocked those couple of oaks down.  They were both encroaching on a very productive pecan tree.  I'll just let them  lay for a while before bucking and splitting.   The one on the right was a stump growth tree.  That stump has fence wire in it, but I can get below the wire and saw it off a little above ground level.


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These trees will be the start on next year's firewood.

Used to have greenhouses. They would be ideal for drying. You could make a small hoop structure and cover with clear plastic. (Plastic would have to be sunlight resistant. Regular Visqueen will not last a year. ) Leave the sides open a few feet up and both ends open. Would be a cheap thing to build.

I try to get it split as soon as possible, and I stack it into a south facing lean-to. This is a steel roofed addition to my garage, very airy, and I stack the wood on boards, to keep it off the ground. I used to stack it and tarp it but this was a real pain, especially when a load of snow was on top of the tarp. The tarp also seemed to trap a lot of moisture. A friend of mine had a degree in forestry, he often talked of a solar kiln, where you stacked the wood then covered it with black plastic, leaving a couple of foot gap around the bottom for air flow. Apparently the black plastic absorbed heat from the sun and airgap let breezes dissapate moisture.

Just a few pointers that I have found from old timers.

1.  Never stack on the ground.  A pallet or parrel logs can be used as a base.
2.  Stack bark up if not protected from rain.
3.  Leave exposed to sun and wind.
4.  Stack should allow a mouse to run through the stack but not the cat chasing it.
5.  I use an open sided wood shed, but a trap suspened a couple of feet above the pile also works well.
6.  Trees felled and left with limbs on for a week will season quicker the those limbed imediately.
7.  Log length wood does not season, but does make a good home for bugs and fungus.
8.  Split wood seasons faster then unsplit.

I heard one firewood guy once say that it takes a month of drying time for every inch of wood thickness.  Anyone else heard that or is it an ol' wive's tale?
Despite my best intentions, I just now finnished stacking my wood for this coming winter. Hope I am not too late for the E-2300 to work well.

Doctorb

Ideal is to burn two year old wood,cut and split green, stack outside for a year.Next year move it into the woodshead for a year.Sometimes really dry wood will burn too hot and fast,like pallets.Myself I get wood when I can, split when I can, and burn when I need to,let the wood chips fall where they may.My outside wood burner has a masonry firebox, burns vicous hot, and cares little if I feed it greenish wood. Frank C.

How many FF members use a moisture meter to test their firewood?  I do, only because I have found it interesting.  Does anyone know a reference for the moisture content of wood as it progresses from green to seasoned?

doctorb

Drb
The moisture meter will measure the surface mc.  As far as the center being "seasoned", that will only follow after the outside is dry.

What does your moisture meter read depth-wise.  And what has been "interesting" from your data collection?

Drying rate will depend on temperature, air movement, and relative humidity of the air surrounding each surface of a piece of firewood. The exposure of the surface will depend on how the wood is stacked.

Just a general rule of thumb, the firewood is green if it still has an MC of 30 % or more. Moisture tables in the wood handbook and wood technology text use it as the fibre saturation point. A guess on my part, as I don't use those meters, would be that the meters use this MC % for a "gauge" as well. Maybe that's the cutoff for the meters.

Beenthere-

I agree, the meter only reads surface moisture percentage.  That's why I was told to split the wood before measuring, and then measure on the inside (split) surface.  That way you get an idea what the moisture content is inside the wood, not just on the surface.

What I have found is that the difference in content where you measure can be profound.  I have recorded, over a period of months, the change in moisture content of my delivered wood.  You can often see the "drying" line, as the wood with the higher H2O content is a little darker. (I am talking about oak now).  In my covered shed, with the wood stacked 6 feet high and three rows of 18" - 20" long logs deep, you can detect the slow advancement of the drying if you measure every month.  It's pretty cool (sounds like I have nothing else to do, doesn't it?). 

For example, 10" round delivered 2 months ago, inside moisture content 30%.  Same wood delivery, (undoubtedly the same tree) 12" round split into quarters 6 weeks ago, moisture content 23%.  Oak delivered last March, same quartered size, moisture content 17%.

I am anxious to see how fast the split versus the unsplit wood drys under the same enviromental condiditions.  It may help me to decide which to burn first this winter, and which to let sit for later in the year, and possibly next year.  It may also help me to decide if I should split the 10" and 12 " rounds just once, to speed the process.

By the way, I had one experienced guy tell me wood does not dry in the winter.  I don't beleive this is true, as the relative humidity in the winter is much lower than in the summer here.  Maybe I am just thinking about this whole thing too much.  My wife once said that she was going to become a "fishing widow".  Now she says that she's become a "wood widow".

Doctorb

Quote from: doctorb on August 26, 2010, 04:38:00 PM
.......By the way, I had one experienced guy tell me wood does not dry in the winter.  I don't beleive this is true, as the relative humidity in the winter is much lower than in the summer here.  Maybe I am just thinking about this whole thing too much.  ......
Doctorb

Outdoors, cooler weather will have higher relative humidity. The air temp is the key. Indoors, relative humidity is lower due to heating systems.
So, the "experienced" guy probably was close, in that little drying takes place in the winter (outdoors).
And you are right, splitting the wood and checking the split face is a good way to learn what the mc is. And remember, the mc meters usually don't read accurately above 30% mc.

beenthere-

I am no meteorologist, but warm air can nold more water vapor than cold air.  We have relative humidities in the 90% range here in th Mid-Atlantic during the summer, sometimes for weeks on end.  Why is the relative humidity higher in colder times?  Am I nuts or do those cold, clear dry days of winter have very low humidity?  Confused

Doctorb

Cold air is dryer. Relative humidity lets you know how close precipitation (saturation) is about to take place at a a given air temperature and pressure, when dew point and air temp converge (your actually looking at vapor pressures). Dew point temperature gives a much better indication of water vapour, but not how much. But, dew point of 20° is a lot dryer than at 60°. The higher the dew point the more water vapor, more sticky feel to the air. Cold air cannot hold as much water vapour as warmer air. Sure cold air can feel damp, because your air temp is near a colder dew point temp. -20 dew point and -20 actual gives 100%, just as 80 dew point and 80 actual are 100 % at a specific pressure. There is no way -20 dew point has the same water vapor capacity as 80 dew point. It might be snowing but it's a mighty dry powder and would require about a foot to make an inch of water.

In drying of wood, that water has to be vapourized, requiring heat, to pass through cell walls. Thus, in winter mostly the surface of wood in the direct sunlight gets dried and not very deep. Wood is a poor conductor of heat.

DrB
Did SD clear that up for you?  :)

QuoteI am no meteorologist, but warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air.

What you said is true. And cold air therefore can't easily get more of the water vapor from the wood to help it dry during the winter.

Keep in mind it is the Relative humidity that is key to wood drying. Outside in the winter at 0° F, the RH is normally very high. That same air inside a house at 70° F is a much lower RH.   We always hear about how dry the air is in a house in the winter time, but it is just inside the heated house that it happens.

This is our 36th heating season using only wood for heat.  I have tried for years to find the "perfect" wood drying method that was also less labor intensive.  Wood sheds are nice if you fill them with fairly dry wood.  I would start to fill mine in the spring and finish by the middle of the summer.  The problem was the wood the was the dryest was in the back of the shed.  The solution would be to have a shed that you could load from the front to back.

I have found out that a pile of spit green wood covered with plastic does not dry well.  The moisture from the wood condenses on the insdie of the tarp and drips back on the wood under cover.  Wood piled on the ground picks up moisture from the ground and doesn't dry well.

I have tried to round wood piles, very labor intensive to build and a pain in the neck to take wood from without it tumbling down in a heap.  Single rows of wood piled bark up not too tight facing south with a sheet metal cover to keep the rain off works well if you have the room.  As the wood dries it shrinks and the piles will start to lean and may even fall over without a little straigthening now and then.  Putting all your wood in cribbed piles is very effective for drying but takes a lot more room and time to construct.

The method I have been happiest with so far is a 20 foot long row of pallets.  I cut all my wood 18" long, piling random length wood is a pain.  I start out making cribed ends at the four corners on my 20 foot row.  Then I plie the wood in between starting the pile on the outside edge of the pallets leaving about a foot air space in between the two rows.  Once I have made the pile about 4 feet high I make a 8"-10" high pile right down the middle of on top of the two rows tying them together.  On the outside edge of each row I lay a line of pieces of wood end to end perpendicular to the piled row.  This outside row is about 4" lower than the inside stack holding the tops of the rows together.  Then I construct a shingle type roof with a couple of rows of wood down the whole length of the pile.  Just before snow I cover with plastic.

Being on pallets there is plenty of air flow from the ground up and the air space in between the rows alow air to get to boths sides of each pile.  The "roof" top keeps the rain out and also ties the piles together making it a stable mass. 

For the last 2 years I have managed to keep two years wood ahead.  Burning wood that has dried for 2 years makes a huge difference.  I try to have 8 full cords of wood ready for each year.  This amount of wood takes up some space.  Once the winter starts I put about 2 cord of wood on the back porch, this is very close to thhe stove, and I refill the pile as needed.  I keep my main wood piles a couple of hundred feet from the house.  This works for me, every bodies situation is a little different.

Randy

What has made the biggest improvement in drying firewood for me is this. I cut live trees, usually red oak. After felling, leave the entire tree lay where it falls for a week or so or until the leaves turn brown. By then, the trunk will be nearly dry. Old timer says the leaves will suck the moisture out of the trunk first, then the limbs. Then cut, split and stack in the barn. 2 or 3 months in the barn and it's dry enough to burn in a gasifier stove.

pineywoods
Hate to be the one to break the news to you, but it is a myth.  :)
The old timer didn't really know.
But if one believes it works, then it at least feels good.

Similar beliefs were (are) about/regards curing logs before sawing lumber.


Randy
I'm about the same number of years (started in '74) of burning wood full time. And have gone through the similar route of the open shed first (raccoon wouldn't leave the wood alone) to now splitting and stacking on pallets and keep two years ahead for the best dry wood. It is "seasoned" the first year but dry for burning the second.  Stack it green on the pallets and it stays there until off-loading at the wood burner (inside water boiler/heater).

Thanks beenthere and Swamp-

Yep - this old dog can learn new tricks.  Maybe I should separate some of my wood from an identical tree and follow the inside moisture content through the winter months, just for fun.  thanks again for the info.  enlightening.

Doctorb

Quote from: beenthere on August 27, 2010, 10:06:26 AM
pineywoods
Hate to be the one to break the news to you, but it is a myth.  :)
The old timer didn't really know.
But if one believes it works, then it at least feels good.

That may be the truth, but it gives me a plausible excuse to put off bucking and splitting for a couple of weeks  ;D

Plus the leaves fall off and handling the limbs is easier.  I just hook the JD to the tree and drag it whole to the bucking and splitting place.    ;)

Quote from: beenthere on August 27, 2010, 10:06:26 AM
pineywoods
Hate to be the one to break the news to you, but it is a myth.  :)
The old timer didn't really know.
But if one believes it works, then it at least feels good.

I'm curious how you know this. I've been tempted to do a trial with some beech, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I was going to drop one tree and leave the limbs and leaves on, another of the same size and limb it, then come back and buck and split it a month later (should be plenty of time for the leaves to dry out), and measure the MC at some of the fresh splits. I was also thinking of bucking a few rounds off the butt of these at the time they were dropped, then splitting and stacking them single row, in the sun, cut ends aimed into the wind (which is my current preferred method for fastest drying). My bet is that the stuff that is cut and split right away will beat both of the tree-length ones easily, but I'm curious how the "leaves on" versus limbed trees will compare.

John Mc - right on target.

I agree that a little scientific investigation would help us decide whether the myth can hold water or not.  (bad reference on this topic).  Unfortunately, it may not be a simple comparison.  Do you think that the mc of the entire tree is affected by leaving the limbs and leaves on, or will it only effect the upper limbs?

I agree with J Mc.  I think that anything cut, split and stacked will dry out faster than wood (tree) that sits for a month, intact, only to then go through the same process.  It is a reasonable question.  If John Mc and I are wrong, there's going to be felled trees lying all over this country waiting to be cut and split at a later time.

I am going to take down several black locust trees that are arching over my neighbors driveway.  I may perform the same type of experiment.  Makes things interesting.

Doctorb

My knowledge on the subject is purely un-scientific, from 2 sources. I have a neighbor who is well up in the 90's, bod all worn out, but his mind is sharper than mine, plus he has a few years experience. He swears that the leaves will suck most of the moisture from the trunk. Second is my experience with bug killed pine. Pine beetles eat the cambium layer starting at the stump level, effective girdling the tree just as surely as a chain saw. Magicman will probably back me on this, you ain't sawed a dry log until you saw a bug killed pine. I don't have a moisture meter, using one to test the idea would be interesting.

Not wanting to argue , this is what I have been told from an old logger. He was logging an island and they had to float the logs out. The logs kept sinking so to eliminate the loss of logs they dropped the trees with leaves on and left them lay for several weeks and no more sinking logs. I would assume that meant the logs lost considerable more moisture from this method.

What may be an ideal experiment is to take down a green tree that forks fairly close to the ground.  Measure the moisture content of the trunk of both of the forks.  Assuming they are identical, cut, split, and stack one side, leaving the other half untouched for a month.  Cut, split and stack the second "delayed" half.  Take measurements of the mc from each of the 2 halves at the time the "delayed" half is cut (one month from felling the tree), and then monthly for a few months.

This should allow wood from the same tree, treated with 2 different methods, to have the mc tested and compard fairly.  sounds like a project for doctorb.  I gotta go find the right tree.


doctorb

It's possible some species could sink when green or sit in the water for a period that they got denser than water (62.4 lbs/ft³ @40-70°F). Some of the oaks, locust, osage, shagbark, persimmon, eastern hophornbeam.

I would not be surprised if the "leaves on" method does pull a bit of moisture out of the trunk as compared to limbing the tree but otherwise leaving the trunk intact. If for some reason I know I'm going to have time to drop them, but not have time to buck and split, sometimes I leave the limbs & leaves on. I figure it can't hurt. But often I take them off anyway -- especially if I have a bunch of trees to drop in one area. The tangled mess they leave if I don't limb more or less as I go is just not worth the hassle of dealing with later.

I would also not be surprised if limbs & leaves on vs limbed drying effectiveness varies considerably with species.

Well, I dropped these trees July 29th.  This is what they look like exactly one month later.  Sure, the leaves are dead, and I have no idea what effect that had on the wood.  I knew that I wanted them down for firewood and I did not have time to buck them up (and still don't) but at least they are not still sucking moisture out of the ground.  I would think that the leaves continue to draw some moisture, at least for a few days, but who knows ???  I don't, and really don't care.  It's just easier when the leaves fall off.  I'll just run over the small limbs with the bushhog and grind them up.   ;D


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July 29, 2010


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August 29, 2010

I have also heard that "story" about leaving the tree lay with the leaves on will dry the wood faster.  I have no emperical evidence that it made a "big" difference in the length of time it takes to dry out the wood.  I think that after the leaves begin to wilt they are not sucking up any more moisture, which takes only a few days.

One thing I have noticed is that trees cut in the dead of winter don't have as much moisture in the wood as trees cut in the spring and summer months.  I try to cut most of my firewood then.  I have also noticed that wood left tree length does not dry much at all.  I at least try to buck every thing to stove length and pile it until I can get it out of the woods and split it as soon as possible.

Randy

Does one of our sponsors sell one of these moisture meters you guys are talking about?  I'd like to pick one up if it isn't too expensive.

As for drying in the winter...  maybe it's just because it gets so dry here during the frigidly cold winters, but my firewood seems to dry just fine during winter.  Clothes that aren't sopping wet also dry out quickly in frigid temperatures.  However, if you were to put a soaking wet rag in a pile out on the porch, it would simply turn to ice.  Perhaps surface area and level of saturation plays into whether things will dry or simply freeze during winter?

How does freeze drying work, anyway?

Warbird-
I looked through the list of FF sponsors and I did not see any any manufacturer of moisture meters.  I could be wrong as I was comparing it to a googled list of available devices.

Mine is made by Extech.  There are many different models and manufacturers from which to choose.  As in many things, you can spend just about as much money as you would like.  Seem to run from $35 up to several hundred.

I am always amazed in winter when snow melt turns to a thin sheen of water on the black tarmack during a sunny day, and the water on the road generally evaporates off,  leaving a dry road.  Certainly temperature has something to do with this.  If water could not be absorbed into the air in winter, then we'd have black ice everywhere every winter's night!

Doctorb

Quote from: RSteiner on August 30, 2010, 06:35:43 AM


One thing I have noticed is that trees cut in the dead of winter don't have as much moisture in the wood as trees cut in the spring and summer months.

If that were the case, than every pulp mill buying on tonnage in the country, would be dropping the price of wood purchased in summer. Paying for all the extra water they can't use. ;)

Quote from: doctorb on August 30, 2010, 05:13:29 PM
Warbird-
I am always amazed in winter when snow melt turns to a thin sheen of water on the black tarmack during a sunny day, and the water on the road generally evaporates off,  leaving a dry road.  Certainly temperature has something to do with this.  If water could not be absorbed into the air in winter, then we'd have black ice everywhere every winter's night!

Doctorb

Salt on the road acts as a catalyst to melt snow in freezing temps, but that only works down to a certain degree, any colder and the salt is useless unless the sun is warm enough to raise the temp.


When wood takes on moisture in the cell wall, it makes a hydrogen bond and gives off energy doing it. This is called "heat of wetting". So, to reverse it energy has to be applied to remove the hydrogen bonding. This applies to "bound water" and not the free water within cell lumins. I think free water can become bound and taken up by the cell wall if the energy being applied to dry the wood is lost or reduced as the atmosphere around the wood equalizes with the wood structure. Also, drying is not a uniform process because wood structure is not perfect and lots of other variables like thickness of the material and so on. Wood is hygroscopic, so it wants to take on water if it has extra capacity to do so. It can naturally loose water to equalize with the atmosphere. Call this equilibrium moisture content, which varies by climate. The trouble with relative humidity by itself, is it gives no indication of how much water vapour is in the air for wood to equalize with. A figure of say 80 % with an air temperature of 40 has a lot less vapour than at a temp of 100 degrees at 80 % RH.

"A figure of say 80 % with an air temperature of 40 has a lot less vapour than at a temp of 100 degrees at 80 % RH"   This fact is what makes a cold front a likely time for some rain to fall.   I think the best gauge of drying potential from day to day is the difference in day max temps and night low temps.  If you have ever done any sandblasting this will be a critical part of planning whether to blast or wait till later. Less than20 degrees swing spells trouble. Stan

Quote from: doctorb on August 30, 2010, 05:13:29 PM

I looked through the list of FF sponsors and I did not see any any manufacturer of moisture meters.  I could be wrong as I was comparing it to a googled list of available devices.

Doctorb

Bailey's sells a couple of them and they're a long time sponsor.  :)

Mooseherder - thanks for the correction.  I was looking at manufacturers, not retailers, and missed that.  Happy to promote FF sponsors.

Good stuff on the temp / relative humidity gradient.  Very instructive.

Doctorb

One of the reasons wood does not dry as well in the winter (at least in climates that have a "real" winter) is that the moisture does not move very well through the wood when it is below freezing. So any drying tends to be surface drying, and not as much gets drawn out from the interior of the wood.

The occasional warm day, or a sunny day may warm up the wood a bit and let the moisture flow, but this does not go too much below the surface unless it stays sunny and warmer for an extended period.

I have used a pin type meter made by lignomat.  It is their cheapest model, mini-ligno, (http://www.lignomat.com/MoistureMeter/moisture_pin_meter_mini.htm) but does a good job for me. The factory prices are $110+ , but if you look around the internet,or look in the woodworking magazines, you will find this meter for $80 and sometimes as little as $60. 

It is plenty accurate enough for firewood and most air-drying situations.   It also impresses customers and gives you the excuse to return to a job and renew the contact.  "HI!  I just thought I'd stop by and see how your lumber was drying.  How have you been doing?"

Sun and wind have great effect on drying wood.For years a friend and I cut all winter and stacked it under an overhanging roof south facing side of his stable, block painted dark brown.The winter sun and dry air would suck the moisture out in one week you could see the differance.In a couple of months the wood was so dry and hard it would ring when struck togather. Frank C.

Saturday, a church group came over and helped me get the last 5 cord stacked.  The majority was already split to size.  Here are a few pics:

We have just over 2 cord of wood on the front porch:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01136.JPG)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01137.JPG)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01138.JPG)

We have about 5.5 cord of wood under the canopy:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01139.JPG)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01140.JPG)

And this is where the pile of split firewood sat for a few months.  You can see some birch, spruce, and cottonwood logs that I gathered a while ago.  Those are about ready to be bucked, split, and stacked.  Not sure if I'll get to this before the snow flies or not.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01141.JPG)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01142.JPG)

And here's the porch, shop, and canopy all in one shot:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/2983/DSC01143.JPG)

Once the rain clears up, I'll be taking the back wall off that canopy and setting up a few fans to run all day, moving air across the stacks.  This wood is already fairly seasoned but I figure I may as well help it a long a bit more.  ;)

What kind of heater do you have?  More than one?

We have a large wood stove inside the house.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16196/DSC05225_%28Custom%29.JPG)

We also have an oil boiler in the shop that provides baseboard water heat for the shop and the house.  The only thing we heat in the house with it is the crawl space (usually 40 - 45° F), and the master bathroom (it is the farthest away from the wood stove).

I'm looking to redesign the whole boiler system.  Maybe pull it inside the house and put a small monitor heater in the shop or just a small wood stove.

I'm cold already just looking at that stacked softwood and tiny stove. :D I've got 9 cords of hard maple and beech stashed away and big old force air wood fired furnace beside an oil burner furnace. I'd rather open a window then be cold. :D :D

Haha.  If you want to ship some of that hard maple over here, I'd surely love to burn it.  With hardwood like that, plus my wood stove, I could probably get 20 - 24 hour burn times.  We already get 12 - 14 burn times just with spruce.

Those forced air furnaces are nice but it is already so dry here, and I'm allergic to dist, so forced air can be hard on me.  Plus, the EPA came to town with their 'fine particulate regulations' and everyone with an outdoor furnace/boiler is getting the evil eye from the Federal government.   >:(

I feel sorry for anyone with allergies to smoke and dust, no laughing matter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_furnacesmoke-001.jpg)

Wonder how this would fair under the EPA regs? :D :D

Warbird

You are the first person on this thread to mention the use of fans to assist in outdoor wood drying.  Have you ever done any tests to see how much difference it makes?  I have considered it for my wood shed, which is about 50% open sided, and 50% walled with open windows.  Unfortnately, I have to stack row after row after row, like under your canopy, because of space constraints.  I try to leave some space between the rows, but it's not always possible.  I don't know how much air gets to the stacks against the walls, and I don't know if fans would help it much.  I have not, however, had a problem with this wood drying, as long as I give it at least 6 months.  Anybody else help move the air over their fuel?

Doctorb

Hey doc.  I do not have any scientific numbers that prove air movement dries wood faster.  It just does.  As long as the the wood is split and you can get air to the ends of the wood, it will dry faster with air movement.

The best would be to have space between your stacks and just let the normal air movement assist the drying.  The wood you see under the white canopy in the pics above is from April of this year.  It has had quite a few months of seasoning but isn't as dry as I want.  Winter is close here, so I had to go ahead and get it under the canopy.  I removed the other side wall and set 2 oscillating fans (they are on stands) on high, blowing air into the stack.  Obviously, the front stack will dry the quickest but there are enough gaps in the stack that I can still feel a slight breeze at the back of the stack.

Another thing to consider with forcing air movement is the relative humidity.  In my experience, this method will be most efficient on relatively dry days.  If you are moving 98% RH air over the wood, it isn't going to be able to absorb much more moisture.  I'm sure it'll still help but dry air movement is the best.

The wood you see stacked on the porch is from last year and is super dry.  It's got ~1.5 years of seasoning and should see us through about a quarter of this winter.  So the wood under the canopy has more time.  :)

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 07, 2010, 03:26:53 AM
I feel sorry for anyone with allergies to smoke and dust, no laughing matter.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_furnacesmoke-001.jpg)

Wonder how this would fair under the EPA regs? :D :D

Thankfully, I'm not allergic to smoke, just dust.  As for the smoke in the above pic, they'd have a field day with you!  They have this whole system where they will sit outside watching your smoke stack and taking pictures.  They have to be there for something like 15 - 30 minutes, at least.  They are measuring the opacity of the smoke and have to measure it a few times, to compensate for a fireshly stoked fire and such.

It's mostly a bunch of hogwash, IMO.  They recently got rid of the automobile I/M program here and the way I figure it, they needed to somehow replace that revenue.  Really ticks me off if I think about it too much.  Just more gov't control.

That being said, we do have a few folks who make a bad name for everyone else.  Those are the guys who will burn anything in an outdoor boiler.  Waste oil, junky wood, super green wood, etc.  Some guys are burning some truly noxious stuff and have generated many complaints.  And now we all get to deal with it, as neighbors can call and complain, sick the gov't on them, make life difficult, etc.

I'm all for the really bad folks being taken to task and made to burn somewhat responsibly, especially if their exhaust is choking their neighbors.  But the method they've chosen to take care of a small problem is just plain stupid because Fairbanks is in a bowl shaped valley and we have something called an 'inversion'.  What they've done will not fix the overall problem.   >:( >:(

I believe that my concern, with firewood stacked on the porch of my house, would be insects getting into the structure of the house.  It might be prudent to consider an application of insecticide to keep the egg-laying adults down.  Powder post beetles and termites would be a concern around here.

Not too much concern of that, Tom.  We do have quite a few small spiders but they are mostly non-invasive and don't destroy anything.  Besides, they'll all be dead here real soon.  ;D

 I had not read through this thread until tonight , but feel compelled to give you guys a little background info that may hep you understand we have a fellow here that really really does have a lot of experience and information in that shiny head of his. He's not about to say anything about that but I will because I'm proud as all get out to have him first as a friend and second as a member of the Forestry Forum.

Who?  Well the guy has really beenthere.  :) (LINK) (http://www.google.com/search?q=kent+mcdonald+forest+products+lab&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

Just a quick google link

Yesterday, here in Colorado it was 90 degrees with the relative humidity at 6% and winds at 10 plus mph all day.  On days like that, it doesn't take long for the pine I have stacked to dry out.  Of course that is the low humidity reading for the week, but it is much dryer here than in some parts of the county, so my splits and rounds do dry out pretty fast.

I get my rounds stacked this year for next year's wood.  So, the rounds set for almost a year and then split late spring.  The splits set over the summer and then burnt for our winter's heat.

I will get some photos to post.

I, too, have rounds that I plan to use next winter, not this.  Why not split them, if even just once,  rather than wait until the spring?  My measurements of mc have been showing me that splitting green wood in rounds leads to much quicker drying.  The exposed surface area of a 12" round (18" long) is significantly less than if that round is split down the middle just once.  I posted the mc's on the various wood I have put up for this winter earlier on this thread.  I will try and update in about a month.  If this fuel doesn't dry well under my current set-up, I think that I may have to change my storage system to allow more air flow between stacks.

Jeff- I looked through beenthere's link.  pretty cool.  He must be like Smith Barney....when beenthere talks, people listen!

Doctorb

Ken certainly is a knowledgeable fellow. I have known of his affiliation with Madison Wood Products Lab for some time. Never knew a whole lot about his back ground or any publishings, just things I've picked up on in the forum over the years. Ken doesn't like some of my math, but that's Ok. Blame it on that old cigar chomp'in codger from Hungary. :D :D

"Dr. L. P. Sebastian Prize
conditions: Awarded annually based on the recommendation of the Faculty of Forestry and Environmental Management to an outstanding full-time student in the Faculty of Forestry and Environmental Management on the Fredericton campus who displays excellence in wood technology, wood products or wood engineering upon entering the final year of the Forestry program (approximately 140 ch completed) or the Forest Engineering degree program (approximately 163 ch completed). The prize has been funded by G. and M. Daugharty with matching funds from Northern Telecom, and friends of L.P. Sebastian."

Rest in peace "Woody" :)

beenthere

I noticed (in your pic early in this thread) that you take the time to cross stack each level of your paletted wood.  I am sure that you do this to maximize surface area - air contact to enhance drying.  When I am putting up 10 cords in my shed, it might take twice as long and may fill up twice the space to be that exacting.  Now that winter's a'comin', I wish my wood was further seasoned, and that method would surely have helped.  The wood does dry when its stacked parallel, but it must take longer.  I try not to stack it tight, and purposely try to avoid placing the flat surfaces of adjacent pieces from lying up against on another.  It's the best I can do!

Doctorb

i just got a e classic in the spring,  i cut my wood in the winter, most of the wood is cotton wood maple and mulberry.  i just split it in the end of july the cottonwood still had moisture in it. they were about 2 feet around 18 inches long.  do u think it will be dry for my e classic to burn

jason-

I have learned from the people on the FF that wood does not really dry unless it's split.  Rounds with a diameter of 2 feet are pretty large.  The smaller you split them, the faster they dry.  Unfortunately, the smaller you split, the faster they burn.

The e-classic likes to have fuel of different diameters.  the smaller pieces fill the "dead" space between larger ones, and they burn quicker replenishing the coal bed.  I would suggest that you have a variety of sizes of your split pieces.  You could save more of your larger pieces until after Jan 1 to give them a little more drying time.

As you have read, some of the FF members are very diligent and compulsive about the preparation of next winter's wood.  Dependent upon where you live and how you have your wood stacked, you will probably be fine.  I had only 6 months max drying time last year, my first with an eclassic, and I had no problem.  It's been so dry here that you could season wood overnight, it seems.  Central Boiler and others on this thread repeatedly mention that wood should be "cured" for at least a year for optimnal performance.  For most of us humans, it's the best laid plans......
Doctorb

First fire of the season in the furnace. It got down to 62 degrees in the house and with the dampness associated with fall weather it was time to give this place some heat. It soon rose to 85 degrees and dropped the humidity to 60 %.  ;D

Sure felt nice.  :)

Donk,  looking at the time you posted made me start wondering about time zones and how times appear on posts.  I assume that you are in the Atlantic Time Zone.  Your posting time shows 02:34:19 am.  So I guess that mean that you were building your fire 4:34 am, your time which would be 2:34 am, my time.  I had never really thought about times that much, but then again, this is a worldwide forum.

Anyway, it was 58° outside this morning, which was very nice.

I was up then yes, but I build by fall fires in the evenings. ;) I go to work a couple hours before daylight, so I get up at around 3:30 am to make breakfast first. ;)

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 14, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
...I get up at around 3:30 am...

I suspected you were a bit strange.  This confirms it.  ;D :)

Quote from: Warbird on September 15, 2010, 01:50:20 PM

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 14, 2010, 04:52:33 PM
...I get up at around 3:30 am...

I suspected you were a bit strange.  This confirms it.  ;D :)

What if he stayed in bed until 4:00 am would he still be a bit strange?  ::)   

Some of us like the early morning hours.  :)  Of course I also like to go looking for my pillow in the early evening hours.  ;D

Randy

When I was up to Jeff's cabin, I was up for my morning walk up the road bright an early before there was stir in the back room of the cabin. :D :D :D

My father gets up at 4:30 or 5:00 and he has nothing to get up for. :D My uncle gets up early to, and he doesn't have to make any appointments either. :D

I am a morning person, too.  Usually up at 5:30am.  3:30 just seems re-donk-ulous.  ;D

Well I gotta have breakfast before I leave at 5:00 am to be ready to cut brush at daylight, which now is 7:00 am. I gotta have protein in my belly, so a quick bowl of cereal don't make the grade. :D

Man, it's been DanG wet this week!! We're getting our summer's rain now. To top it off, the sun is usually shining after supper. ::) Need another stick on the fire to dry the gear out. :/

Over here, we've had an unusually long string of sunny days.  Daytime temps have been 60 - 70 degrees F, which is pretty warm for this time of year.  There is a large, very high pressure system that has been sitting over most of Alaska.

Good weather for pc to get the "house" built out west of you.  8)

Who is "pc" and how far west is he?

More rain tonight and tomorrow, but I have a little over a cord I'm tucking away on Saturday when it is supposed to be sunny and looks like rain again after that.  :-\

So SD, getting up at 3:30am, how much sleep do you generally get a night?

Quote from: Warbird on September 16, 2010, 02:24:48 PM
Who is "pc" and how far west is he?

Not sure why beenthere has resorted to code unless he's afraid of some imminent takeover, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to plinkitycat

OK -  I've been splitting some black locust that I took down this week, (2 dead and 4 live) and I have found a few areas that are infested with what I assume are termites.  What do you guys do with the wood that's infested?  Usually it just involves just the core of the round and the rest of the wood seems OK (not too punky).  Do I just chuck this stuff down the hill?  Do I stack it with the rest to be burned next winter?  Can I stack it in the shed? Do I shake them out of the split pieces and stomp the little buggers?   I am sure that I sound like a nicky new guy....'cause I guess I am!  Suggestions?

Doctorb

 :D :D
If there is a ring of good wood, I go ahead and split it. When it dries some in the stack, the critters will bail out and go elsewhere. Be they black carpenter ants or whatever. Stay alert to some wayward ones crawling up inside your pant leg. Stomp them.  ;D ;D

Truly punky pieces I don't stack. Just keep the solid wood.

Quote from: Jeff on September 16, 2010, 04:18:57 PM

Quote from: Warbird on September 16, 2010, 02:24:48 PM
Who is "pc" and how far west is he?

Not sure why beenthere has resorted to code unless he's afraid of some imminent takeover, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to plinkitycat

Ah, right.  I should contact them sometime and get out to their place.  Sounds very interesting.

Quote from: Jeff on September 16, 2010, 04:18:57 PM

Quote from: Warbird on September 16, 2010, 02:24:48 PM
Who is "pc" and how far west is he?

Not sure why beenthere has resorted to code unless he's afraid of some imminent takeover, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to plinkitycat

Yup, and I thought warbird would know his neighbors out near Manley ;D ;D

That's like saying: Hey, you know Jim Wasisname? I just met him down in Moncton when I was traveling through NB this summer. He said he knew of a swampdonkey down there by the beaver pond. :D

Quote from: Warbird on September 16, 2010, 04:09:07 PM
So SD, getting up at 3:30am, how much sleep do you generally get a night?

6 to 8 hours, usually about 6, the other two are spent waking up and looking at the clock. :D :D :D

Years ago when I was selling a good little bit of firewood, flying insects found my wood and came and literally sucked all of the water and sap straight out of the rounds.  I mean, I would have a 3' diameter round with thousands of honey bees, a few wasps, myriads of flies, and even a spattering of butterflies.  I was amazed as they took wood that was literally dripping wet and sucked those rounds bone dry in a weeks time.  Has anyone else had this happen?

Surely you jest.... ::) ::)

 :D :D :D

They will come to the weeping sap for the sugar, but I doubt they sucked the wood dry. I see the insect action mostly on stumps in the spring after a winter cut. ;)

Nope, not jesting.  And, while I did not take a moisture meter to it, they cut the weight of the wood by probably at least half and the wood rounds checked and cracked right up like crazy.

Then I'm curious as what "bone dry" means to you.  ;D

And what species of wood might it have been?

Quote from: beenthere on September 20, 2010, 07:56:02 PM
Then I'm curious as what "bone dry" means to you.  ;D

And what species of wood might it have been?

My "bone dry" = similar to wood properly air dried for a year or two.  Great to burn in most stoves or furnaces, but not sure if dry enough for those outdoor wood stove / boilers.  The rounds were all cracked and checked pretty well.

The wood was mixed with everything from some soft willow to black walnut to cherry to a lot of white and red oak.  The majority was mature red oak from the VA facility grounds in Grand Rapids, MI.

I suppose when you felled the trees, the instant they hit the ground, they shattered into properly sized firewood logs?  ;)  Just kidding, Stephen.  I've never heard of insects speeding up wood drying, though.  Scientifically, it sounds pretty far fetched.

Sorry.  At this point I wish that I had not even said anything.  I was not trying to put forth any far-fetched or exaggerated story.  I was amazed when I saw it, but I just assumed that a bunch of you guys had also seen the same thing since so many people here have a lot more experience with firewood than I do.  I am not going to comment on the part about the wood busting up into perfect sized pieces when the logs hit the ground other than to say that the vast majority of this wood that I had then was storm damaged trees that were already down for the most part.

Stephen -

I didn't get the impression Warbird meant any offense with is remark about breaking into firewood sized pieces, it just read like a good natured poke in the ribs to me.

I've never heard of bugs speeding the drying process, but then I've never looked for that either. Heck, I never even thought of it.

You mentioned it was storm-damaged wood. Usually, it's the weak links that come down in a storm anyway. Any chance it was already bug infested and/or partially dead before it came down?

I didn't intend to insult ya, Stephen, and was just joking around.  Please disregard it.  I'm glad you mentioned what you saw with the insects and when I have some time, look forward to searching out more information about it.  Prior to your mentioning it, it was the first I'd ever heard of such a thing.

John Mc,

Now, this storm damaged wood was actually some of the best wood that I have ever had.  There was a big storm that came through back in 1990 or 1991 that topped out some huge oaks on the property of a VA facility in Grand Rapids, MI.  Some of these oaks were the largest that I have ever seen.  I am sure that some of our members in the GR area may be able to confirm some of this.  In fact, I would like to have someone swing by to let me know how these trees are doing since I have not been back there in nearly 20 years.

Anyways, it looked like a small twister or a group of them went through the area during the storm to top out these very tall oaks.  The facility paid a tree company to drop the trunks of the worst ones and trim up the rest.  Needless to say, there was a LOT of big wood on the ground.  The VA facility divided their property up into 14 plots to auction off the rights to cut and remove the wood.  I won 12 of those plots, but I still was not able to get all of the wood even though I was hauling several cord a day out of there.

Anyways, like I said, this was some of the healthiest oak I think I ever cut.  Out of dozens of trees, I don't remember the first bit of rot or bug damage on any of them.  Anywhere else I cut large oaks or maples or whatever of any size, I very often would have to deal with hollow trunks, termites, and carpenter ants.  Not so on this VA wood.

I really would like to hear from somebody how the remaining trees are doing.  A lot of the tallest trees were taken out back then, but there were many left.  I had limbs on some of these trees that were 24" or better.  Most of the trunks were 30"+ at the smallest.  Many dwarfed that. The broadest base was on a short trunked monster up close to the building that had probably around a 7'-8' base.  Needless to say, I never got many of those trunks.  I was already cutting from both sides to get through the limbs and smaller trunks alone.

If someone in GR can check on these trees, there is one particular monster I am curious about.  It is the tallest and largest oak I personally have ever seen.  It is not on the main open grounds of the VA, but rather in a wooded area of the VA that was not fenced in.  The tree sits about a hundred feet maybe (if my memory serves me correctly) off of one of the side roads bordering the property, but, because of it's size, it can easily be spotted while driving down the road. The huge trunk (48"-60"+?) is straight as an arrow and it's first branches are probably at least 35-40' high.  If it is not cracked or hollow by now, I bet that it would make one of the best veneer logs.  I salivated over that tree, but because it was not damaged from the storm, I could not touch it.  On the other hand, I probably would not want to anymore anyways.  The money would soon be gone, but a tree like that takes well more than a century to grow.

To give an idea of how old this VA facility is, they have a VA cemetery on-site there with 2,413 Civil War veterans interred.  I think a lot of these trees were at least that old. 

Hey guys, cut ole Stephen some slack here.  He just may be on to something big.  Just think about it.  If those Sap Suckers can do that to a log, just think what they could to to sawn lumber.  They can get to the entire board.  No more kilns.

And what about Maple trees.  No more sap buckets or pipes.  Just tap the tree and let the Sap Suckers take the drip to their hives.  Then just go empty the sap cones and cook the syrup at your leisure.

There may be a problem around Lynchburg, Tn.  Since Stephen said they could suck White Oak, and Jack Daniels uses White Oak for their barrels.  They'll suck them barrels dry and then fly straight maybe wobbly to their hives and deposit their night's suck into the cones.  Nobody will know how the barrels got empty, and ole Stephen will get rich selling Sap Sucker Dew. ;)  :)  :D

Pretty funny, MM.

I will start burning (E-2300) in the first week of November, assuming we don't have a prolonged warming trend.  I went out today and checked the moisture content of my fuel, and I now have a bit of concern.  I have read that seasoned wood should be at a MC of 20% or lower.

I have 4 cords that are over a year seasoned registering about 12% MC on the inside of a split log.

I have 2.5 cords that have been split and stacked since June, MC 22%.

I have 2.5 cords split and stacked since July, MC 24%.

I have 3 cords split and stacked since August, MC 25%.

I have an additional 7 cords stacked and split which is planned for use next winter.

While I can't do anything about the MC, I was hoping against hope that the prolonged time for seasoning I have read here so often was an exageration.  One part of me says, "See, you should've taken care of that early in the spring."  The other part of me says, "Throw away the moisture meter and light the DanG fire".  If you measure this wood on the unsplit end, they all read about 12-13%.  You are fooling yourself about the MC if you don't split it just before measuring.  Anybody else in my shoes?

Doctorb

Take the batteries out of the moisture meter, put it on a shelf, and just burn the wood.  ;) 

If it don't burn to suit you, just open the draft a little more.

What is the difference in drying time for slabs coming off my mill (sawn) and wood split to the same size and both cut to the same lenght?

I think it should dry faster but it depends on how the slabs are you have them stacked.  BT or someone else can probably provide a more solid answer.

25 % MC is fine. Heck the wood I stashed this May in the barn is split 1/3 the way down on the ends from checking. If I dropped it from 100 feet up it would probably fly apart. I built a fire in the shop a couple times this weekend and it lit like lighting cedar kindling, just used a few planer shavings as starter. Roasting marsh mellows and boiling coffee within 20 minutes if you wanted. I don't leave the damper and draft wide open either, as it's not air tight and she roars in there otherwise. :D I checked the old pipes and hardly anything in them from all last winter and maybe a pint of soot in the flu. Before I checked the condition of the old pipes, I had bought some new sections of 24 mil, so I stuck the new ones on. Cheap insurance. ;D The old ones were actually just fine. I did put a new thimble in and mortar, so that was the main reason for the fire the first time to dry the mortar. Also to cure the paint they stick on the pipes. That stuff smokes a room up until it's heated. Then your next fire you don't have a smoke filled room from new pipes. ::) The second fire was when I was tinkering on my planer, but it wasn't cold to begin with. My shop never freezes in winter when the fire goes out and for a couple days afterward if I wanted to leave a pale of water in there.

In the house I open my draft up this time of year. By Christmas I have a steady fire going and it never goes out. just lay a couple stabs in on the coals in the morning and she's roaring in 10 minutes. :D

And yes, you have to take the reading on a "fresh" cut end or split edge. But how is your damper set up. Mine is in the door on the front and guess which part of your stick fires up first? The end of the stick, as the draft sucks air and flame in on the stick end where it is also checked toward the middle of the stick. ;)

Doctorb

The most efficient burn is at somewhere between 15 and 20% MC. That doesn't mean you can't burn things outside that range. Higher MC means tougher starting, and wasting BTUs warming up and then vaporizing the moisture in the log (that vaporization part takes a huge amount of energy - burning green wood can waste up to 40% of the BTUs as compared to properly seasoned wood). It can also mean more creosote formation. And finally, burning wet wood greatly increases the pollution generated by wood burning. Burning a good hot fire, rather than a slow smoldering one with the air choked off can help cut down on the creosote formation and pollution. It may be harder to get that hot fire with wetter wood, though once you get it going, it's a bit easier to keep it going.

Too low a MC can also effect efficiency, but I'd have to get my wood combustion guru friend to explain the science behind that one.

Generally, it's the average moisture content of the wood in the combustion chamber that matters. If you are 12 or 13% on the ends, and 22% (and probably even 24%) in the middle, you are probably in pretty good shape. If you need to stretch the supply, try mixing some of your 24 and 25% stuff in with the 12% stuff. It wouldn't take much of your 12% wood to bring the average for the load down into the prime burning range

John Mc

Doctorb -

I'd think you still have some time for good drying weather down in MD. Drying slows considerably when things are below freezing: the surface moisture can still dry, but the moisture doesn't move much within the interior of the wood.

It's possible to get wood dried below 20% if you are cutting and splitting in June or July, even up here in Vermont. A lot depends on the species: White Ash is famous for being almost ready to burn the day you cut it (OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration). Oak is at the other end of the spectrum - it seems to take forever to dry... I usually count on a full year for that (and preferably two summers), unless I've split it very small.

Heat and wind are your two greatest friends in drying wood.

You can help yourself for quicker drying by stacking up off the ground on pallets or poles. This helps stop the wood from wicking up moisture out of the ground, and helps promote good air flow around and through the stack. Stacking in single rows or spacing the rows apart a bit also helps. The idea is to promote air flow around and through the wood stacks... this carries the moisture away as it is released from the wood. The less air flow, the higher the relative humidity around and in the stack of wood, which slows the drying process dramatically.

I've found that when stacking single rows, it dries best if I stack with the cut ends aimed into the sun and wind (fortunately, that's more or less the same thing here). If I'm doing multiple rows, I leave space between them... I also may orient them so the wind blows down between the rows -- though I don't always do that. I don't worry too much about covering the stack at first - mostly I want the sun beating down on it, and the wind blowing over it. As it gets drier, I cover the top only, letting the air still blow through the sides of the stack.

Only after it's almost all the way dry do I consider restacking in my woodshed. If it's dry enough to burn, I'll stack the rows tightly together to conserve space. If I'm hoping for a bit more drying, I'll leave a bit of space between the rows. (My wood shed is open on 3 sides, so I still get some air flow through it, just not as good as stacking out in the open.)

A good website for info on firewood burning is: www.woodheat.org (http://www.woodheat.org)  (Hopefully I'm not running afoul of Forestry Forum rules by posting this website. I don't really consider it a competitor of FF...)

John Mc

Thanks everyone-

My problem, I'll bet also shared by others, is space.  While I can put 13 cords into my shed, which sounds like a lot, it's stacked row against row.  Without airflow between stacks, I am sure that I do not have an optimal drying situation despite being under cover and exposed to the elements.

Some of the recent comments are very applicable for wood burning indoor stoves with their inherent variable draft controls.  Unless I am missing something, downdraft outdoor wood gasiffication burners have no such options, and seasoned wood does help their performance.

I plan to mix the seasoned wood with the "seasoning" wood to have the good stuff last longer and give the remaining fuel more time to dry.  I will remeasure the MC around Dec. 1 to follow the trend and report back.  I like John Mc's suggestion to season the wood outdoors and move it under cover, and stack tightly, when the seasoning process is well advanced.  If I don't have a problem this winter (burning more wood because of high MC, poor longevity of the fire with the need to reload more often), then I'll take Warbird's suggestion and darken the moisture meter.

Doctorb

The downside to my suggestion of seasoning out in the open first is all the extra handling. But since I haven't been able to stay enough ahead of the game to get in longer drying times, it's been working for me.

One thing I've also tried is to make stacks in the forest right near where the tree fell. I cut, split and stack it right there, then pick it up much later, when it's ready to go right into my woodshed. It does let me bring it straight from the woods to my woodshed, which eliminates a bit of handling (and makes my wife a bit happier without all the stacks of wood all over the place near the house). I find it doesn't dry nearly as quickly in the woods. Not so surprising, probably hgher relative humidity in under the canopy, less sun, less wind... It dries, just not nearly as fast as the "single stack out in the open" method.

John Mc

Quote from: Warbird on October 18, 2010, 01:18:55 AM
I think it should dry faster but it depends on how the slabs are you have them stacked.

Wow.  Brain wasn't working last night.  The above should have read:

I think it should dry faster but it depends on how thick the slabs are and how you have them stacked.

Well, John Mc, it's the handling issue that led me to stack the wood the way I do, so I only move it once before using it in the E-2300.  I just need to figure how long it takes for this oak to get to about 20% MC when stacked that way, then I will have the best of both worlds .... plenty of seasoned wood real close to the outdoor furnace.

Doctorb

With white and red oak, I don't burn it in less than two years time stored under shed roof.
Three years if I can get that far ahead.
So many variables involved, including the type of fire someone is trying to "hold" for a period of time, and considering that any moisture in the wood is going to subtract from the btu potential. 
What is most efficient for extracting the most btu's is prolly not the most efficient for the ways and methods many people are caught up in as far as harvesting and storing wood, and keeping a fire for a long period of time.

Bottom line...you will get fewer btu's in heat from wood that has to use some of those btu's to boil off water first. If the woodburner is heating water, then those btu's from dry wood can be stored in the water. If the woodburner is heating air, then it is hard to store the heat. It will raise the temp in the room which might not be desirable for comfort.

Juggling all the different variables isn't a science, but is a lot of trial and error to arrive at what works for each of us.

WOW!  3 years!  At 9-10 cords per winter my wife would (wood!) kill me!

Fresh cut oak carries a lot more water than rock maple, beech and yellow birch. It's quite a bit heavier green than these three. The most I've ever seen anyone ahead on their wood in these parts was 18 months. Most folks are only 12 months, some 6 months. I've even seen some people cut it fresh, throw it in the basement and start burning. The neighbor was in this category and probably had at leas 4 flu fires that I can remember. My wood is around 10 months old, I inspect my pipes every month in the house and clean the flu once a year. My uncle will have kitchen stove wood sometimes 3 years ahead, that's because the older is in behind and if he cuts some newer it's in the front of the old. He actually doesn't like wood stored that long. It seems to burn up too quick. It's usually lower btu wood like white birch and red maple for the kitchen stove. But, also limb wood from rock maple and beech, which comes in handy for heating the oven if you want to get a 400-450 degree oven in a cook stove. ;) Same with my boiler for the steam chest, you need beech and rock maple as a minimum to get the temperature. ;D

Quote from: doctorb on October 17, 2010, 06:45:08 PM
I have 4 cords that are over a year seasoned registering about 12% MC on the inside of a split log.

I have 2.5 cords that have been split and stacked since June, MC 22%.

I have 2.5 cords split and stacked since July, MC 24%.

I have 3 cords split and stacked since August, MC 25%.

I have an additional 7 cords stacked and split which is planned for use next winter.

Anybody else in my shoes?

DoctorB,

I have found this thread to be very interesting and have especially enjoyed the MC numbers you have been providing.  The moisture content on your various stacks of firewood has prompted me to search out a moisture meter and do some testing of my own.

When a person owns a high efficiency wood burning furnace it makes sense to maximize its potential.  I have spent a lot of time this year building up my reserve.  At the start of this season I will have this winters split and stacked, all of next winters wood split and stacked and most of our wood needs for  the winter after that is currently in rounds stacked as single rows.  My goal is to cut a winters worth per year, but doing it in the spring/summer/fall 2 ½ years before it is needed.  I will post some photos this week.

PS  It would be nice to be in your shoes - looks like you are much more ahead of the wood burning game than the average home owner.

Dean186-

If you are regimented enough to be that far ahead, you don't need a moisture meter!  The key for me is to get the wood in while spring is still cool.  I envision that, while I am still burning in March and April, the next winter's wood needs to be split and stacked.  One ol' guy told me that next year's wood needs to be up by Easter.  Not a bad benchmark for most us, unless Easter comes real early.

What I meant by "Anybody else in my shoes?" was that, while I have a more than adequate volume of wood, I don't have a surplus of fully seasoned wood.  I agree it is optimal to maximize the efficiency of our efforts.  I see no reason to split, stack, move and burn extra wood because I can't get my act together in early spring!

Let us know your MC readings.   Doctorb

Quote from: Warbird on October 17, 2010, 08:01:10 PM
Take the batteries out of the moisture meter, put it on a shelf, and just burn the wood.  ;) 

ha ha, not to many folks out there checking there firewood with moisture meters is there?  :D  Ash makes real nice firewood seasoning is unnecessary just cut, split and throw in woodstove  :)
I'll look for beech, ironwood, cherry, hard maple, birch, or oak in about that order. I'm finally to the point where I'm a few years ahead worth of firewood so I don't have to pay to much attention I just know its all dry. I keep it all stacked up real neat under a cedar pole/ tin roofed shed. I'll burn a lesser species like poplar, birch, or slabwood this time of year until it starts staying below freezing save the best wood for middle of winter or coldest months. I think leaving trees treelength can be a good way to cut firewood and it isn't an old wifes tale that it is a good way to dry wood out for firewood use. Of course its gonna dry faster if cut up and split. I've bunched tens of thousands of cords tree length wood on high production pulpwood operations and you can watch just how quickly most species will dry out it is amazing, you can tell just how dry the tree is by if its still holding leaves or if they have fallen off , it doesn't take long, or by looking at condition of bark or limbs. If its up off the ground it will dry out nice like how some species will become if they are standing dead. Some species like box elder even if up off the ground can actually keep growing for many weeks, I've seen that specially if it rains a little. When I'm working in the woods and have access to lots of firewood I always look for standing dead, nice stuff with the bark off clean its so nice to have the woodshed filled up with that stuff 8). If you need your firewood to dry faster or are worried about having enough ready to burn this winter just split it up a little finer it won't take long.

I agree that it takes a bit of craziness to use the moisture meter.  It's more of a scientific toy than something I use to change the way my firewood is drying.  Maybe it's just a verification of all that work we do to get ready for the heating season.

Undoubtedly, splitting the wood into smaller pieces speeds the drying greatly.  Unfortunatley, placing all those smaller pieces into the wood furnace takes more time, and they burn faster, making you refill the firebox more often.  In the end, Warbird is right, "...just burn the wood."

I am going to try to assess how the E-2300 behaves with real dry wood, acceptably dry wood, and unseasoned wood this winter.  It will be difficult to objectively determine the changes in performance of the furnace between these different fuels (all oak).  I may only see minor differences in burn duration, moisture (steam) out of the chimney, and the amount of wood burned.  These are not easy to quanitate as heating demands change from day to day.   Doctorb

Quote from: doctorb on October 18, 2010, 03:10:10 PM
Well, John Mc, it's the handling issue that led me to stack the wood the way I do, so I only move it once before using it in the E-2300.

All that descriptions of stacking and restacking weren't meant to be the most labor efficient way of getting dry wood. It was just tips on what to do if you get behind and need to get wood dried as quickly as possible.

Regardless, I do try to let things sit a bit before I put them in the wood shed, even if it's just bucking it up and leaving it in the woods for a while. Stacking close rows in the woodshed while it's still freshly cut is a recipe for moldy wood around here. Doesn't bug me much, but drives my wife crazy (she has a mild allergy to it)

John Mc

Quote from: doctorb on October 17, 2010, 06:45:08 PM
I have 4 cords that are over a year seasoned registering about 12% MC on the inside of a split log.

I have 2.5 cords that have been split and stacked since June, MC 22%.

I have 2.5 cords split and stacked since July, MC 24%.

I have 3 cords split and stacked since August, MC 25%.

Those MC measurements are about 4 weeks old now.  Follow-up measurements:

Split and stacked since June:  MC 20 - 21%

Split and stacked since July:   MC  23.5%

Split and stacked since August:  MC 24.5%

I know for most of you this info is barely worth registering.  Understand, it's just something I have to do until I figure it all out.  Forgive me!  Doctorb

I did a bit of the same thing one fall a year after I got in to burning wood for serious heating (as opposed to scenic fires and supplemental heat). It was useful to answer some questions I had about what it took to dry wood in my area, and to calibrate my estimates on whether the wood I had was dry enough to burn properly in my wood stove. There are so many conflicting pieces of wood burning tips and and "old wives tales" floating around that I wanted to check some of them myself.

Now that I have my routine down, I don't check MC% anymore. If I ever did get in to some comparative trials of various methods for drying wood, I might get back into it again.

John Mc

No forgiveness required, doc.  It is cool to see your scientific approach to this, and to see the numbers.  When I said you should take out the batteries and just burn the wood, I as trying to set your mind at ease.  You'll be fine burning any of that wood, even if it is not what the experts say is "perfect".

Now that the heating season is here, suprisingly enough, that wood burns!  I have been mixing the good (dryer) with the great (driest) as the stove in these fall days does not run as often as it will in the dead of winter.  I think that wetter wood might let the fire go out easier, or be tougher to bring back from the embers when the system calls for more heat.  I will remeasure around the first week of December and see how late into the winter I can still get some drying here in Maryland.  We have had a frost or two, but not sustained enough to freeze inside that wood (high temps in the 50's and low 60's).  I hope that I can continue to get drying until January.  We'll see.   Doctorb

If you are regularly getting highs in the 50's or more, you'll still be drying your wood... just not as quickly as in the summer. You've got to be down below freezing and "cold soak" the wood pile for things to really slow down.

As Warbird said, any of what you have will burn OK. The wetter stuff will not burn as efficiently as the dryer, but it will burn. If you are worried, just save some of the dryer stuff for starting fires. Once it's going and up to heat, the slightly wetter stuff you have will still burn OK.

I can tell when I'm burning 25% MC wood vs the 15-18% I normally burn. The wetter takes a bit more to get going, and I notice that I go through a bit more wood. The difference in how much I use can easily be lost in the difference between what species I'm burning. (I burned almost all Beech one winter, which was interesting to see, since it took the species variation out of the picture.)

John Mc

I do tree removal as a side job (less than 60 hours per week!) and sell the wood later. I cut to length (16" to 20"), split it, haul it home and stack it against the fence. The only thing I do is elevate it off the ground with landscaping timbers on top of cinder blocks. I never cover it. Once split, I let it season for varying lengths of time. Oak is a year; Maple 9 months; Gum 18 months to 2 years; Ash and Poplar 6 months.

One final time to show the progression of seasoning of my firewood.

Quote from: doctorb on October 17, 2010, 06:45:08 PM
I have 4 cords that are over a year seasoned registering about 12% MC on the inside of a split log.

I have 2.5 cords that have been split and stacked since June, MC 22%.

I have 2.5 cords split and stacked since July, MC 24%.

I have 3 cords split and stacked since August, MC 25%.

November 4, 2010
Those above MC measurements are about 4 weeks old now.  Follow-up measurements:

Split and stacked since June:  MC 20 - 21%

Split and stacked since July:   MC  23.5%

Split and stacked since August:  MC 24.5%
[/quote]

Measurements taken today, December 10, 2010

Split and stacked (shed) in June:   MC 19-20%

Split and stacked (shed) since July:   MC 21 - 22%

Split and stacked (shed) since August:   MC 23.5%

Standing dead oak - split and stacked outside (no cover):  MC 21%


So, many of you are right about many things!.
1.  Split and stack outside in the elements of wind and sun.  Does better than row by row in a shed.
2.  Drying does continue here in Maryland up into December.
3.  Oak put up by the end of spring will be OK, but not optimal, for burning.
4.  Be diligent and stay a year ahead and you can bury the moisture meter.

Thanks for putting up with all of this!  Doctorb

Nice info, doctorb.

I did something similar a year or two after I first started doing a significant part of my heating with wood. I just wanted to verify that what I thought I had was what I really had, so I borrowed a friend's moisture meter and did some tests.

Some questions for you: When you tested the MC%, did you cut the log in two and test in the middle, or did you test the end or side of the log? (Or maybe you had one of those pin-less moisture meters that can read to some depth under the surface of the log?) What kind of temperatures have you been running in your area since your previous test?

You mentioned that "Oak put up by the end of spring will be OK, but not optimal, for burning." Was this the "standing dead oak" (which presumably had lost at least some of it's moisture from it's live green state before you even started)?  I've cut some red oak and some white oak in the spring, and it was not so great for burning by that fall -- despite stacking in single rows exposed to the sun and wind. Most of this was a white oak blow-down that I cut up within a couple weeks of when it came down, so it was still pretty green. The red oak was tops and some large odds & ends left over from a logging job on some land a few miles from me. It had been cut in the fall, and left on in contact with the ground till I cut and stacked it late in the following spring... that stuff took forever to dry. Your drying season is a lot longer and warmer that what I have hear in Vermont, so that may account for some of the difference we're seeing.

Getting any of that oak to burn was a real pain in the behind that first winter. If I threw a couple of pieces on a good hot fire, it would eventually burn, but it must have still had a lot of moisture, since it seemed to suck a good bit of the heat right out of the fire.

Glad to hear your firewood supply is working out for you. If you do end up having to stack partially dry wood in your shed, you can help matters a bit by leaving some space between the rows. It's not as good as leaving it directly exposed to sun and wind, but better than stacking butt-to-butt. Opening up doors/walls/windows in the shed to improve airflow around these spaced stacks will also make a difference.

If you stack some of that less seasoned wood behind the seasoned in a dry warm basement of the house it dries as the good stuff is burned. That's if you heat the house that way. But, I guess you guys are outside boiler fellas. I've got about 6 cords of wood that don't get touched for about 4 months after the heating begins. It's all cut the same time, but 1.5 cords is dried further outside (maple, beech) in sun and wind during 5 months of summer, while the other 6 is in the basement since May. It's all good and dry and takes no time to burn and throw heat, not smoldering and sizzling either, just a puff of smoke out the flu.

John Mc and SD:

1.  All of the MC readings listed above were made after splitting the log and measuring the middle of the log right then.  None of the readings were obtained from the end of the logs.  Certainly the geometry, diameter, bark on or off, and distance from the surface are all variables when trying to compare MC readings.  I attempted to find logs of similar sizes and shapes from each separate pile to attempt to make the measurments as consistent as possible.
2.  None of the June, July, or August readings were on the standing dead oak.  I was saving the latter for next winter, and did not measure it until now.  I do not know how long it was standing dead.  The three consecutive monthly readings listed were on delivered wood, recently split, to my knowledge.  I don't know how long those tress had been down before spliting and delivery to me, but, from what I've learned here, logs really don't season much until they're split.
3.  We had a nice fall, but have been real cold December so far.  Temps have not risen into the 40's around here since the start of the month.  Average high here for that period is 48F.  Nights have been in the 20's, with a few in the high teens.  My pond is frozen over, and it's not even winter yet!   I am assuming that, once the wood is frozen through, not much drying can take place.
4.  Yes, SD, I am burning outdoors.  I still occasionally use my indoor wood stove.  I have some nice split 2 year old oak for that.  It puts out a lot of heat and never sizzles.

Doctorb

This is 15 minutes after I reloaded the shop stove with two small slivers and a big slab of beech on some coals. Same wood as in the house.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_wood_smoke-001.jpg)

What kind of indoor stove is it?  Catalytic?  I should get a video of my e-2300 when she's rollin', just a waft of heat!  Doctorb

Just an old cast iron stove made in Georgia, eons ago. Everything is manual, even carrying the firewood. ;D :D  No such thing as air tight back then. Sure throws the heat though. Usually leave the door open when working in there. ;)

Quote from: doctorb on December 10, 2010, 02:07:10 PM
What kind of indoor stove is it?  Catalytic?  I should get a video of my e-2300 when she's rollin', just a waft of heat!  Doctorb

It doesn't take a catalytic stove to get those results. I've got a Hearthstone Phoenix woodstove - non-catalytic. I get little or no visible smoke once it's up and running -- as long as I use properly seasoned wood, and operate the stove correctly.

John Mc

Here is 6 1/2 cords of wood that was prepped this summer.  It will not be used until the winter after this one.  

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics%3Cbr%20/%3E/20112/Wood_Gathering_2010_013_DS.jpg)

Nice neat stack of wood. So it sits there next to the wood burner through this winter?
What's it look like around the woodburner today?

Why is that pic so small?  Yet it is full size in your gallery.  ??  ??

[img width=80 height=53]https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums
/userpics/20112/thumb_Wood_Gathering_2010_013_DS.jpg[/img]


Fat fingered a thumbnail instead of clicking the image for the posting code below it. Right clicking a thumbnail for the image code isn't the same. It adds a prefix "thumb_" to the code. It was scaled to 80px × 53px.

Should be this:

[IMG] https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics
/20112/Wood_Gathering_2010_013_DS.jpg [/IMG]

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20112/Wood_Gathering_2010_013_DS.jpg)

It will also scale if width= and height= tags are used in the code

doctorb that is a lot of 'cipherin' for firewood production!  I got tired out reading all the measurments you took.  I am glad that there is someone to do the heavy lifting so I don't have to ;)  I cut my future firewood trees, if I have to separate them from the stump, in late winter, early spring, then cut them up and split them while the sun is hot and leave them setting in the sun for about a week or 2, then they are ready to stack in the shed and burn come the cold season.  Have'nt had a creosote problem doing it this way, and getting good heat and easy starts with my wood( mostly Doug fir, big leaf maple, and alder, once in a while some madrone).  Things seem to dry out quick out here, probably because the humidity drops off to almost nil during the summer while the sun is hot.  When rains come in fall, humidity index cranks right up there, till the next summer.

Quote from: beenthere on December 16, 2010, 12:18:35 PM

Nice neat stack of wood. So it sits there next to the wood burner through this winter?
What's it look like around the woodburner today?

Why is that pic so small?  Yet it is full size in your gallery.  ??  ??

The above photo has been fixed, thanks SwampDonkey for the correction.  

Beenthere, yes that pile will set there this winter.  It has been covered and I'm working from some other piles.  The whole area can be seen in the photo below and the stacks of wood totals over 20 full cords.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20112/Split_Wood_Piles_2010b_DS.jpg)

Wow, that is nice neatly piled fire wood. But, I also take notice of how neat and tidy the whole Dang yard is.  :)

Dean186
Neat looking wood yard. Where is the snow?

Full or face cords?

This is about as neat as my piles get. This is 7.5 cords. About 8 feet from the front end and on down the far end those ranks are about 8 feet high. There are 4 ranks of wood there. Seems to me somewhere near 23 feet long. 20 inch wood.


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Woodpile.jpg)

Nice looking lot Dean.  :) ;)

Dean- quite impressive!  I may have to get a photo or two of my stuff, but it's not gonna compare with that! 

Mad Murdock - I think most people got tired of those readings.  I won't really have to gothrough that again because I understand better now.

Nice looking piles Dean, now show us the equipment you move and stack them with. :)

Swamp, is that wood still there since 2006?  :)

Quote from: MudBud on December 16, 2010, 08:44:46 PM
Nice looking piles Dean, now show us the equipment you move and stack them with. :)

The photo below shows most of the equipment used.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20112/Work_Gloves_used_just_for_installation_of_Furnace.jpg)

And the photo below you can see three wheel barrows that proved most useful.  I know all you big equipment operators are saying, but not everyone can afford three wheel barrows.  ;D  And one of them even has a solid tire.  ;D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20112/Ready_for_Winter.jpg)

Seriously, I did all of it myself with a good Husky 346xp chainsaw, a cant, a lawn tractor with pull cart, my truck and a splitting maul.  After splitting half of it by hand a good splitter was purchased.  I will do a write up on my splitter with photos in another post.

Quote from: beenthere on December 16, 2010, 05:35:41 PM
Dean186
Neat looking wood yard. Where is the snow?

Full or face cords?

There are 20 full cords stacked up at the house.  And for the snow, that is what we have been wondering.  Here in Denver we are at our 4th driest winter and soon to be driest winter if it doesn't snow by end of December.  We have had a total of 3 1/2 inches in two snow storms all year at the house and less in Denver.

Thanks for the compliments everyone.

Quote from: MudBud on December 16, 2010, 08:44:46 PM
Nice looking piles Dean, now show us the equipment you move and stack them with. :)

Swamp, is that wood still there since 2006?  :)

In a sense yes, in ash form on the old garden. ;D

A wheel barrel is my favorite piece of equipment around the yard. It's twice as fast for me to move wood from the dumped piles, and then use to cart wood to stack in the basement, than any method I know. A trailer is twice the work when confined to a yard.   8)

Swamp-

I noticed on Dean's pics that his three wheelbarrows are models with single front wheels.  I use a model with dual front wheels.  It hurts maneuverability a bit, but never tips over!  I've lost my share of wheelbarrow loads of wood!  Dean, when any of those three wear out :D :D, give the two-wheel type a try. (I think they have a name, like a construction wheelbarrow or something).

Doctorb

Yessiree, that is one tidy looking yard!  nice job.  Reminds me of a sick friend of mine who has his wood piles all stacked so straight and square, you almost hate to dismantle them to bring in the wood.  He stacks the wood criss-crossing every layer so that you start with 3 or 4 pieces, then go up and rotate the next 3-4 pieces 90 deg. and keep going vertically stacking individual columns.  You could ad a bit of mortar and have a solid bulwark, the way he does it :D
It does make for some nice neat stacks though.

Quote from: doctorb on December 17, 2010, 07:56:28 AM
Swamp-

I noticed on Dean's pics that his three wheelbarrows are models with single front wheels.  I use a model with dual front wheels.  It hurts maneuverability a bit, but never tips over!  I've lost my share of wheelbarrow loads of wood!  Dean, when any of those three wear out :D :D, give the two-wheel type a try. (I think they have a name, like a construction wheelbarrow or something).

Doctorb

Doc,
I agree the 2 wheeled ones work great! I bought one for a ex girlfriend as a birthday present once. She said she liked it. 8) 8)

Is that the reason of "EX"? :o

Yeah, but part of the purpose of the wheel barrel is to work on your balance. :D

I've rarely ditched a load, but often the top slab likes to roll off and in front of the wheel for an abrupt halt, then a bit of a stumble to save the load, followed up by a resounding curse or two. :D

I switched from a wheelbarrow to one of the carts with the 2 bike tires on the sides from HD.   I think rubbermaid makes it and its the best, never tipped it yet and dumps great!  The only problem is I use it as a stand to cut wood with a circular saw and cut through the top sides...its got character!  I also pull an old cart behind my atv along with the wood splitter.  I somewhat inherited an original late 70's Super Split wood splitter that is all rack-n-pinion and no hydraulics.  I would never switch back, its cycle is about 6 seconds.  Average cord of wood split is about 60 minutes by myself.  I converted it to an electric motor from the original gas engine.  The new models are in the 4-5k range.

Quote from: WH_Conley on December 17, 2010, 02:22:11 PM
Is that the reason of "EX"? :o

Not entirely :D :D :D :D

Quote from: doctorb on December 17, 2010, 07:56:28 AMDean, when any of those three wear out :D :D, give the two-wheel type a try. (I think they have a name, like a construction wheelbarrow or something).

Okay, I will - however, I doubt I will every wear them out.  I have owned one of them for 30 years now and it has gone through a couple sets of tires. 

Nice set up Dean.

Beautiful part of the country out there.  Been out that way many times as I had grandparents that lived in Boulder and Aunt and Uncle that used to live in Denver city limits and now currenly reside in Englewood.  Always enjoy reading and learning from your posts and comments.

Firechief

Wood should be cut and put under cover as soon as possible.4 foot or sawed to length  fire wood left in the woods does not dry well.Wood left in the open gets rained on and  never drys.I hauled home some ash that I had sawed up in the woods last year. Deep snow kept me from hauling it out.When i handle a piece in the wood shed it feels heavy, more so the fresh cut green ash. Covering the pile with a tarp  keeps the moisture locked up in the wood.Ive been cutting wood for some 63 years,a lot was cut with a bow saw and axe  . 4 foot wood should be cut to stove length  as soon as possible and put under cover.   

Wood dries out doors just fine. It's not like a sponge that absorbs water sopping wet in rain. I like my wood inside as soon as i get it because of the bugs that make home outside and hornets nests.  Also the bark will stay tight if stored right a way inside. Left out the bark falls off by the time it's seasoned. ::)

I've got seasoned white ash in my lumber, and it's not light. It's been drying for 12 years. A cubic foot of it weights 46-48 lbs as seasoned firewood around 16-20% MC. Take a seasoned piece 16" diameter 20" long and you got about 50 lbs in your hands. And white ash isn't full of water like oak when fresh cut. If you've got a bunch of red ash in the mix it's lighter when dry and black ash is a whole lot lighter.

Swamp-

Why is it bad to have the bark fall off?  I realize that I am commenting a little out of my element here compared to you, but, if the bark is off, I would think drying would be hastened.  Does the BTU output of wood get increased or decreased by burning the bark.  When its dry, doesn't seem to have much mass to it and therefore would not necessarily have much fuel value.  Others have commented that wood stored outside should have the top layer arranged so that the bark is facing up, I presume to try to lessen the water contact with the wood.  Does this matter?  Does barkless wood dry slower when stacked uncovered outside than wood with bark?  Doctorb

The only bad part is the mess to clean up.  ::) I like bark to start the morning fire actually. Bark on or off isn't going to make a significant difference in drying, all wood. It's not like the meat of the wood is being encased by plastic. ;) Bark side up may help to shed the water so it doesn't pool on the rough side of the stick. Still be water in the bark crevasses. I don't see much gained by being that particular. ;)

Quotealso the bark will stay tight if stored right away inside

I split, stack, cover, and let dry outdoors for two years and the bark doesn't come off my white ash firewood.    ::)   What am I missing here?

It falls off mine, quite easily in fact. Hard maple and beech. I don't burn ash, unless it's cutoff scraps in the shop. Our climate must be different I'm guessing, but also I'm talking not being covered. My stored away firewood that I received and put away that day is all tight to the wood.

Quote from: beenthere on December 28, 2010, 11:11:18 AM

Quotealso the bark will stay tight if stored right away inside

I split, stack, cover, and let dry outdoors for two years and the bark doesn't come off my white ash firewood.    ::)   What am I missing here?

It can vary by species. On my Beech, usually it flakes off after it's thoroughly seasoned, but sometimes it sticks on. On Oak, I'll often get slabs of bark coming off in good-sized chunks.

I wonder if it sticks so well on ash (particularly white ash) because it's already fairly dry when you first cut it? Maybe it doesn't shrink as much, so the bark doesn't shed?

Tarping a stack with the tarp down all the way to the ground is a big mistake... it holds the moisture in. When I do cover it, I cover the top only (sheet of plastic, scrap of plywood, or an old piece of metal roofing). However, I've found that covering the top gains me very little in drying early on in the drying process... leaving it open for better air flow and exposure to sun actually seems to help the drying. As the wood gets mostly dry, that's when I cover it to protect it from the rain or snow.

I agree with S.D. that once it's dry, it doesn't tend to soak up water like a sponge. If it's just getting rained on, you can get some surface moisture in the wood, but it's not like you go back to the moisture content of green wood (this assumes the wood is not in contact with the ground... I've seen it wick up an awful lot of moisture when in ground contact -- that's a recipe for rot).

John, while I am sure you are right, I think you are missing the point.  Everything wants to get away from SwampDonkey, even bark. :D

The bark coming off depends more on the season when it was cut than anything else. Trees cut in spring and sometimes even during the summer will have loose bark. By fall and thru the winter the bark is held much tighter.

But even winter cut wood will shed it's bark but it may take two or three years of drying.

I know your right on that Gary, depends a lot on season. But in the last 10 years my wood was cut in dormancy, and most of the time we cut our own in winter except the last few years when dad was still farming and he sold most of his timber for stumpage. Still we always had lots of bark to clean up if it seasoned out doors uncovered. Anyway, we always had good dry wood and never no flu troubles here.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 28, 2010, 01:09:16 PM
Anyway, we always had good dry wood and never no flu troubles here.

You must have all your flu shots up to date.  ;D

Some years the bark sticks to the tree very well and there's some years you can't pickup a stick of wood in a grapple without the stick come shooting out the end leaving the bark behind. I don't know if it's weather related or not.

Quote from: doctorb on December 28, 2010, 09:24:39 AM
Does the BTU output of wood get increased or decreased by burning the bark.  When its dry, doesn't seem to have much mass to it and therefore would not necessarily have much fuel value. 

DoctorB,

In my opinion, the BTU per cord of wood would decrease if the bark is left on it.  Like you stated, the mass of bark is less than the mass of the wood it is covering.  However, it's not worth intentionally removing the bark.  The question I have is;  When one has lots of bark left on the ground after blocking and splitting, do you burn the bark or ...  ?

Mine gets burned, if it's on the ground it goes to my outside fire pot and in the basement it's kindling. ;D

I save the castoffs of wood and bark for kindling.  I pile it into a trashcan and keep it in my shed, with the trash can lid off.  I tend select the "splinters" of wood over the bark, but a good study bark piece certainly can make it in.  The rest gets raked into a pile, put in the cart, and over the hill into my "long-term" compost pile. ;D  When bark comes off in the shed while loading the furnace, I just chuck it into the fire to save having to move it anywhere else.  I agree, it's not for heat or energy value, just the easiest way to discard it safely.  Doctorb

We have a pile of Doug fir bark that we stacked by the woodshed, and we throw a piece or two in the stove with the wood from time to time.  Man that stuff puts off some heat, and it burns long as well.  On some of the larger diam. trees the bark can be several inches thick. It can pile up to alot of fuel.

I save the bark from white pine for starting fires I have a bin in the woodshed that gets filled with that and any small stuff. For fire starting I go out in the woods where there is a lot of paper birch and find logs that are on the ground that are completely rotten. The bark is just like the when the tree was growing though. I take the poll of an axe and just smash the rotten wood apart and pick up all that paper birch bark I can and fill sacks with it that I use to start the woodstove and my forge in the blacksmith shop. Paper birch bark burns like nothing else. You could soak it under water, take it right out and put a math to it and it will still burn like crazy.

being a boy scout in Northern Wisc. birch bark was the fire starter of choice, aside from a good piece of char-cloth.  The birch bark was always a welcome part of the mix.  Always could get a good quick fire going with its help. Out here there is a light greenish moss, that grows in the branches of the big timber, known as "old man's beard", which if collected when dry, and kept that way, will light up almost like a piece of steel wool, great at catching a spark, and blowing into a flame.  When we cut a stand of Doug Fir, we go back a little while later, say a few weeks to a few months, and cut off the stumps, as the roots will do a great job of pumping the stump wood with pitch, that stump wood when split up in smaller pieces makes exellent "fat" wood, that is some of the best fire accelerator going.  Still need a little heat to get it started, but once the fat wood catches, you can really pile the wood on, "flame on".

I tend to use yellow birch here, if I get in in the firewood. Yellow birch is as good as hard maple and beech for warmth. White birch tends to be a kitchen stove wood here, and even at that it's not a 'cooking' wood. You always had to have a good supply of the denser woods to get an oven hot for baking. I know this as my grandmother cooked over an old wood stove and my uncle still does in the cold of winter, not the summer though. I also know this from steaming wood, if you just feed white birch into my setup you will never get the heat required for steam to travel in enough volume to fill the chest.

Here you can see the bark separating from my seasoned firewood. The wood was cut in fall/winter 2009, delivered May 2010. There are slabs deep in the stacks with bark separation as well, not just the more exposed stacks. I don't know how it couldn't, drying wood shrinks Watson. ;)  By February it will be falling clean off.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Bark_Separation.jpg)

One Man's firewood is another man's bowl. ;D

I know what your saying Glen, but 99.99% of the sticks are checked from one end to the other.  :-\

They'll burn better that way. :)

Won't feel so bad about it anyway. ;D

Hey doc.  A friend let me borrow an MC meter.  Spruce that had been split and stacked in a 3-sided shed for almost a year was 10 - 12%.  A log/round from the same wood measured 20% (freshly split just to measure it).

I haven't tested the spruce delivered this year yet but I'm sure it won't be a surprise that it's high.  It weighs a LOT more than the stuff we're about to burn this winter.

Quote from: doctorb on July 16, 2010, 09:39:33 AM
I would be interested in the Forum's opinions on the best method(s) to dry firewood for OWB use.  Stacked? Piled? Under cover or exposed?  Is the method used different for larger diameter pieces versus split?  Have any of these variables really been shown to speed the process of seasoning wood?  Given, say, six months of drying time, do any of these things matter?

Doctorb

I have a spot I stack my wood (preferably split but doesn't have to be) that I get a grate constant cross wind from two large open fields. This spot is also a gravel base so it doesn't hold moisture and it really gets a lot of very hot sun. I discovered this by accident (simply stacked there vs other locations and noticed the diff), but anyway it does a great job of drying wood fast... I stack mostly bark side up... but occasionally not just as long as the top layer or so is bark side up to deflect the elements.

SD-

10-12% is really dry, so I am not surprised it's so much lighter.  I have not been out to the shed to measure the MC of this year's fuel supply, and some would say, "why bother?" as I am still going to burn it no matter what the meter says.

I have been working on finishing next winter's wood stacking, which I like to complete before the end of this summer for use in 18 months.  While I may be skirting the "2 year" rule for oak, the MC on wood treated this way is < 20% by the time I need it.  I think I have a few more months of drying in the temperate Mid-Atlantic region than some of my fellow burners along the northern tier of states.

Yes, pretty dry. But some softwoods hold a lot less water when green. Balsam fir (green) here is a fair bit heavier than spruce wood. Yet, when you push a brush saw into a red spruce, it's harder stuff.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on August 23, 2013, 06:08:47 PM
Balsam fir (green) here is a fair bit heavier than spruce wood. Yet, when you push a brush saw into a red spruce, it's harder stuff.

SD if you are having to push your brush saw into the spruce it may be time to file. ;)
I shouldn't say anything as I haven't strapped my saw on in quite some time.  Cheers

Blade's lots sharp, the one thing I do know is sharp. ;D We are cutting on Crabbe's and some of the spruce (and fir) is 30 feet tall. So, push works better than whack. :D :D Big big stuff, not meant for thinning. Whacking big wood breaks stuff. Seven year old Styhl you know. ;)

My experience with seasoning firewood began with a small pole woodshed that had a fiberglass roof sloped to the south. The summer sun would shine down on the wood and some days you could see steam rising. The next place I lived, I moved the woodshed, but now it was open toward the south and partially shaded. I never saw any steam.
Now I live much further north, so I tried my hand at a passive solar woodshed. It has windows in front, screened vent slots in the floor, and open soffit in front. If I did it over, I think I would make a steep slope roof with glass toward the south and vents in both gable ends. It holds ten cords of split wood.
I dry the wood initially in two rows stacked in the yard on old pallets. My feeling is that rainwater is irrelevant to drying the internal moisture, but I could be wrong. I try to have three years worth of wood, about 30 cords, on hand. Each Spring I cut up and split a truck load of logs and try to get it stacked before May 30. I cut 24" wood, split it and stack it two deep. I tried stacking in a big square, but the wood did not dry as well.
If I had some old metal roofing, I might lay it on top of the stack, but I have not had good luck with tarps, as they blow off, rip, leak, etc. I first put tarps over the top of the stack. I agree with the people who say covering the whole stack would hold in more moisture. The key is to get more air through the pile, so mine is stacked north to south so the prevailing west wind blows through it.
I took a couple of pictures but am not smart enough to load them.
Ed Hill
The Ed Hill New England Rock Farm

Ed-

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  From the detail of your post, looks like you'll fit right in.

Doctorb

Ed Hill,welcome to the forum. The Ed Hill New England Rock Farm? Have animals,wood lot,maple syrup, ect? We don't have any animals now besides 2 cats and one dog.

QuoteI took a couple of pictures but am not smart enough to load them.
Ed Hill

Sure you are!  And welcome to the Forestry Forum.
If the pics are on your computer in .jpg format, then go to the Home page, and down to the "Behind The Forum" and read the primer in the first thread there. You can do it. You just need to set up your own gallery in your profile, and follow the "Click here to add Photos to post" blue hilighted line below this posting window.

Would like to see your wood drying shed.
I split and stack for 2-3 years on pallets and throw a sheet of used rubber roofing on top with a couple split sticks to hold them from blowing off. Pallets stacked two high and not moved until brought near the house during the heating season.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/1591/100_1655.JPG)

Gave up stacking my firewood in a pole shed when the raccoon's used it for their latrine. But it held a good number of cords under that shed roof (24 x 24).

I would have screened that shed, no more coon troubles. Not window screen, but pen screen, like used in box traps. Make panels if you have to. ;D

QuoteI would have screened that shed, no more coon troubles.

It would not have been practical to screen it.
Much better outside to dry, to move around on pallets (handle once off the splitter onto the pallet), and the shed now has walls, windows, doors and concrete floor.  ;D ;D

Well, I guess you wasn't looking for help. But I'd still be using that shed. :D

Quote from: doctorb on August 23, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
I have been working on finishing next winter's wood stacking, which I like to complete before the end of this summer for use in 18 months.  While I may be skirting the "2 year" rule for oak, the MC on wood treated this way is < 20% by the time I need it.

Regarding the "2 year rule":  The Cold Climate Housing Research folks at the university here did a study a couple of years ago.  They found that freshly cut and split local spruce took all of about 6 weeks to dry to below 20% MC.

Funny that this study doesn't get much attention.

Here's the published info on their web site, if yer curious.  :)

http://www.cchrc.org/wood-storage-best-practices

Don't burn spruce, but I do burn oak.
And as doctorb pointed out, the 2 yr rule was for oak.

Good to know about the AK spruce, but didn't see the species mentioned in the link posted.

Appeared from the brief note that it was comparing ground storage of logs vs bucked, split and stacked for drying. Maybe I just missed it.

Spruce has a lower moisture content than a lot of other species. If you looked at cedar, you could practically burn it fresh off the stump if you were in a pinch.

Quote from: Corley5 on July 20, 2010, 04:56:51 PM
Fall and cut live tree into 10' lengths, haul with forwarder to processor, processor cuts and loads into truck, haul home dump in shed in front of boiler and burn.  Repeat when the pile runs low  ;D ;D  Typical seasoning time a few hours to close to two weeks for the last of the pile  :) :)

lol me to

   Got to drop some wood off in one of my favorite places.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/Rustico_1.jpg)
   The winds are strong.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/Rustico_2.jpg)
    The folks are great.


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/Rustico_3.jpg)
    I put the box up real slow that gives the wood a chance to dry.   :D

Stephen, my younger daughter drove around PEI for a few days this summer and she was very impressed. Looks like a nice load of wood too.

   Hey r.man, that is good to hear. Things can get pretty hectic here in the summer as the head count goes from 133 thousand to over 1.25 million,at least that is what I have heard. September-October is the nicest if it is not raining to much. You seem to be a bit of a firewood enthusiast , are you thinking of getting into wood sales or just for personal use ?   Enthusiast good  :D


 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/woodheat%7E0.jpg)

Great picture!  Flames are so hard to capture.

I have had several experiences with cutting trees in the middle of the summer and leave them lay for a couple months with leaves and limbs on.  The leaves pull a lot of the moisture out of the wood.  Then when I cut to 24 inch length and split they get down to about 20% in just a couple months.  This was green ash and poplar.  Oak did change quit a bit but not as much as the ash and poplar.  Split and stored under a roof is always best if there is good air flow.  The greenhouse idea was a great one.  Hot with good air flow is the ultimate drying condtions.

Stephen, I got sidetracked when I read your response the first time, spent a bit of time tracking down pictures of your cutting set up and forgot to answer your question. Sorry for the delay, I am interested in a processor for personal use, I have older friends so it might get used for a few loads a year. I want to spend as little as possible on it and don't expect it to save time or money, just effort. I am 52 and have had physical jobs and hobbies all my life and my body is starting to complain. While I can still do what I want it sometimes has repercussions later in the day or week. I have managed to find a cheap conveyor that needs to be cut down in length but the free bar set up that I was hoping to use is just too heavy to convert. I do like the look of your rig though and it makes me wonder if that would be the way to go.

r.man
This is my "processor", and a conveyer would be nice to get the bigger pieces up onto the splitting level.

 (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Splitter_ff.jpg)

Actually it was one featured in the Earth Day video showing the Logrite firewoodinator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trkLUhcC79I

I'm 20+ yrs your senior and find it fairly easy to split about a cord in 4 hours, including bucking logs, splitting, and stacking on pallets.  I don't split steady for four hours but I also don't fumble the wood around like those shown in the video operating the orange splitter.
A blue Firewoodinator would be just the ideal ticket, IMO.
:)

   Thanks OneWithWood, I like your open minded approach to forestry.

   Rman I am not sure how many cds/yr you would like to do. I guess my initial response would be anything over 20cds/yr I would be looking for a small log loader or a boomtruck that is no longer road worthy. Eliminate handling wood below the waist.  With the increased regs there seems to be some good buys on loaders that just happen to be attached to trucks not up to spec.  Bear in mind my customer base and wood source is quite broad  and sorting is a big part of the firewood market I deal with. Wood processing is in the middle between wood source/species and customer preference/wood burning unit. 
   I think looking at electrical driven hydraulics would be the way to go ,personally I do not find there is much that is inexpensive these days. Research and development (trial and error) is the worst.  Going mobile brings its own set of challenges. The  wood inventory, gear , processed wood, access, site conditions are all on land that does not belong to you.
   As for shearing it works for green smaller diameter (under 8 inch) dirty wood.  One time had a desperate customer who requested a load of the fastest drying wood I could deliver.  So he got an entire load of sheared wood .  A few weeks later he paid and thanked me said his house was warm.  He referred to the load as "shovel wood"  :D :D

QuoteI guess my initial response would be anything over 20cds/yr I would be looking for a small log loader or a boomtruck that is no longer road worthy. Eliminate handling wood below the waist.

That there is solid advice.  Resolve the infeed and outfeed and you'll enhance productivity even with a craptastic splitter.

If a loader is out of the question, at least get a set of log tongs from Husqvarna, et al.
 
Maximize your ergonomic relationship to the work and the day will go by with less effort.

Stacking firewood in a circle.

http://gowood.blogspot.com/2016/07/stacking-firewood-proper-way.html

Penn State Extension

I pile mine in an open wall shed.  Works fine for me.

However, an expert in wood products with 40 plus years experience, recommends piled on a pallet, only one row, exposed to the wind and sun, but protected from the rain with a tarp suspected above the pile.  Stacked such that " a mouse can run through the pile but not the cat chasing it".

Quote from: stumper on July 19, 2016, 07:45:35 PM
... an expert in wood products with 40 plus years experience, recommends piled on a pallet, only one row, exposed to the wind and sun, but protected from the rain with a tarp suspected above the pile.  Stacked such that " a mouse can run through the pile but not the cat chasing it".

Mine goes on pallets (or in a pinch, up on poles laid parallel to keep the wood up off the ground). Single row stacking definitely accelerates the drying process. If you need to get it dried quickly, that's the way to go. Generally, I end up stacking in a double row, because that fits on my pallet well. As long as I'm not getting really late in the season, that dries it just fine.

I've always stored near to my heat appliance. The wood continuously dries so much that the pieces bust apart from checking. As long as I have a real dry cord to start the rest is even drier when used.

I store mine as close to the sun as I can get it.   :o

We've used this system for the last 3 years. Our primary wood is sitka spruce from a nearby, semimature plantation. Once split, it will season in these crates in less than six months over the summer. Nine or more months if over the winter. Winters here are quite wet but also very windy. The drying shed is SE facing so gets a fair amount of air without stormy (wet) southwesterlies.
The crates are from the local garden centre, potted trees come in them from the nurseries and are not cost effective for them to return so they sell them off. I have a pallet truck to shunt the crates around. We bring the timber in in 4 foot lengths from the plantation in a Hilux pickup. One truckload fills about a crate and half.
When required, I hoist a crate into the pickup for delivery to the house (unfortunately we're spread over three locations; plantation, out-farm, home place)
We go through about 15 to 18 crates in a year. 95% of our home heating is from this wood burned in a Irish made Boru boiler stove. I try to have about 20+ crates ready by late summer so we have some spare to share.
If photos don't appear, let me know. If they are duplicated... sorry!