As my first post I'd just like to thank you to everyone who has posted anything in this forum. I have been lurking in the background for about four months now gaining a wealth of knowledge from sawmill modifications to milling tricks. I am at the crossroad where I need to join the forum to get some advice.
I am in the process of building my sawmill shed and need some advice on beams. I currently have the pad poured for the good old Baker to sit on. I plan on building a modest 14 x 30 shed to keep it dry and snow free for our cold Canadian winters. I will be using cedar logs for the posts and just have a simple slant roof.
My question is regarding what type of wood to use for the beams. I was thinking of just making a 30 foot laminated beam, or at least an 18 foot laminated beam for the log opening. I was wondering if I could get away with making one out of poplar or even beech? I seem to have a lot of that in the bush.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the forum. Is your poplar yellow poplar or something else?
Of the two , take the poplar. make some lumber with the beech ! :) As long as you can keep it out of the weather it will be a good building material. I used poplar and helmlock for the trusses on my garage.
welcome to the forum.
i cant help you on the wood choice except i have never been sorry i overbuilt something. pc
First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum. I have sawed for complete building/sheds that were built entirely out of Poplar. Studs, joist, rafters, flooring, and siding. If you need to build a beam, just sandwich plywood or OSB between the Poplar.
There are 100+ year old barns and homes scattered throughout the country built entirely of Poplar. Just keep it out of contact with the ground.
Thanks for the warm welcome and the quick responses.
After googling the different types of poplar leaves I can definitely say its not yellow poplar. The leaves are shaped like spades and toothed around the edges similar to an aspen leaf. I had intended to close in a couple of the sides of the shed with board and batten made of poplar. Our 100 year old barn was done with poplar on the outside and it has stood the test of time, along with many local barns. I'll just mill up the poplar to and keep it off the ground. I have lots of thick plywood to sandwich in between the boards to strengthen the beam.
Thanks again for the input and I look forward to more posts in the future.
The poplar in Virginia is called tulip poplar. Its very blond and light after drying. I would say lighter than yellow pine but just as strong. The poplar you describe in your neck of the woods,Canada, maybe quite different in characteristics than our tulip poplar. I will echo the forum. Tulip poplar was very common framing material in older homes in my area. It makes good dimensional lumber. I think it is a bit more prone to warp and bow than yellow pine. But you can avoid that by keeping your framing lumber a full 2" thick. Go with 2x6 over a 2x4/ and welcome to the forum. We need more Canadians posting!
88Mustang,really the only place you need a wide unsupported opening is where you roll the logs on the mill.Like you said 18' should be OK you can cross brace the corners and get down to a 14' span very doable.If heavy snows are coming you could always prop a temp. brace in the middle to sleep better. If you have oak it would be nice for the span. Frank C.
Gday
And welcome to the Forum 88Mustang ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) With the beams i have never worked with poplar in a structural situation but like Paul said it dosn't hurt to over build ;) :D ;D 8) What type of baker do you have Mate ???
Regards Chris
Tulip poplar is commonly used in outside construction, just keep it dry. Part of my shed is being built from red oak that was sawed for a customer (doctor) who never showed. Now it's good for me and bad for him. The posts and band will be oak but I will use poplar for joists and rafters. Lots of poplar in WV and customers order it for the price and availability.
Meadows Miller:
My Baker is an 18L model which pretty much is identical to the 18M model which they currently sell.
I have a tendency to over build everything. I'll probably do a laminated beam 32 feet long now using a row of the follow:
8 foot 16 foot 8 foot
16 foot 16 foot
8 foot 16 foot 8 foot
All 2x12 with plywood in between. Then have two 2x12 headers at the back. 2x6 rafters 16 feet long spaced every two feet to give approx a foot overhang on each end of the shed. The posts will be of cedar with a 10" top, unless I decide to square them up. The whole thing will be built green, so it might just be better to go with log posts.
I will have to look back on previous posts to figure what the best way to secure the beam together. However that is just a little reading on my part.
The only thing I really haven't decided on yet though is the height of the posts. I was thinking maybe 10 feet from the ground at the front then have it slope back to 8 feet at the rear of the shed.
If anyone has any comments or suggestions please feel free to speak up, as I am here to learn from the wealth of knowledge floating around in this forum. Plus I only want to build this thing once :D with room to add on of course.
Thanks.
Scott
Quote from: 1988mustang on September 21, 2010, 11:01:22 AM
I will have to look back on previous posts to figure what the best way to secure the beam together.
Just nail the dog out of it. Here is a 24' beam that we built in a church. Three 2X12's and OSB.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0230_%28Small%29.JPG)
Quote from: 1988mustang on September 21, 2010, 11:01:22 AM
The only thing I really haven't decided on yet though is the height of the posts. I was thinking maybe 10 feet from the ground at the front then have it slope back to 8 feet at the rear of the shed.
Scott
I would think you would do pretty good with those heights...Mine is 17 ft. to the eaves with no sides and it lets in too much sun in the morning and evening and rain blows in pretty bad if the wind is blowing.when its raining...But the shed came before the mill and I am just glad to have it..Tim
A common trick in my neck of the woods is to wrap 10# roofing felt & staple it to the posts to the depth they go in the ground. Prevents rot.
nail that thing together good . not a suggestion . just how we did it. we had a neat way to fasten the rafters of dads barn to the posts that might work good on your header. we drilled the rafters and put 3/8 inch lag screws in them. used a impact wrench to put them in. pc
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20540/2859/079.JPG)
cant see them in the pic very well but there are 2 lag screws in the end of each rafter.
pc
How long has that shed been up? Seems a little light in the drawers for much wind or racking load. Just curious, as it may do just fine. Apparently no snow load to be worried about.
Sure has a lot of room to use out of the weather.
we put it up this spring. we have serveral around here built on the same plans that have been up for 20 years or more.
we do have some snow here. some winters we will have 18'' snows that seem to stay for a month. those are 2x6 rafters and 2x4 purlins all made out of oak. oak for the posts too. 14' openings. posts are on 8' centers. pc
Paul: you nailed the oak together? Didn't have to pre-drill to make that work? And were those full inch lumber or typical dimension lumber sizes? Thanks.
Lj
1988,what I like to do is notch the top of the posts drill for say 5/8 bolts or all thread through the timber.The bigger the posts the longer they'll last.Frank C.
Sounds like 1988Mustang is dealing with bigtooth aspen to me, same strength as quaking aspen.
Quote from: ljmathias on September 22, 2010, 10:00:51 AM
Paul: you nailed the oak together? Didn't have to pre-drill to make that work? And were those full inch lumber or typical dimension lumber sizes? Thanks.
Lj
yup big old nails with ring shanks and we put m in with a hammer! i know, i know nobody does that anymore, but we did. i sawed all the lumber 1-5/8 thick . drill the first board and nail into the second. same way we did it on my house.
when you got oak and a way to mill it you use what ya got. pc
More "popple" than poplar. Names get picked up for woods in different parts of the country. Can be confusing.
I'd agree with barbender that aspen is likely the wood in question. Not yellow poplar.
Quote from: beenthere on September 22, 2010, 11:00:13 PM
More "popple" than poplar. Names get picked up for woods in different parts of the country. Can be confusing.
I'd agree with barbender that aspen is likely the wood in question. Not yellow poplar.
He could be talking about Balsam Poplar, balm of Gilead, etc.
It's important when we talk about our pines, oaks, poplars, etc. on here that everybody should be careful to look at the region the poster hails from for a clue as to what type of tree they may be talking about. Tulip tree (aka yellow poplar or tulip poplar, or just poplar in many parts of the south) may grow in some parts of extreme southern Ontario, but the true poplars are going to be much more prevalent up there. In Maine the terms poplar and popple are somewhat interchangeable and usually refer to quaking aspen. Balsam poplars, Cottonwoods, and Big tooth aspen are also in the true poplar family, and then there is the Lombardy Poplar, introduced from Europe. My grandparents had one in their yard in Junction City, Oregon, and it grew to be over 100 feet tall and at least 6' dbh. Everything grows bigger out west. . . . .
Poor Balsam Poplar gets no respect around here. :) It has a greenish tint, the wood stinks when cut. Otherwise, I think it should be similar to aspen in its strength and working characteristics. BTW, around here it is called Balmy or Balm of Gilead, the aspen species are usually called Popple.
Quote from: barbender on September 23, 2010, 07:26:31 AM
Poor Balsam Poplar gets no respect around here. :) It has a greenish tint, the wood stinks when cut. Otherwise, I think it should be similar to aspen in its strength and working characteristics. BTW, around here it is called Balmy or Balm of Gilead, the aspen species are usually called Popple.
Yes it seems to go by both names at least from where you live over to Maine. My cousin has a huge one at her house, unless they finally got it cut down.
The Balmy I have hauled in the winter went to the Sappi paper mill, they run right in with the Aspen products. This stuff had nice form, it loaded on the truck like saw logs, the aspen off of that site was horrible, you could barely fit enough on the truck to get close on weight limits. On another note, I was just looking at the MN Big Tree Registry, champion Bigtooth Aspen is 120' tall!
Oh these DanG'ed names again. It's all about what it not. Tulip Poplar is not aspen or popple. Balm is popple and is balsam poplar not balsam. Balsam fir is balsam and not popple or aspen.
There, is that clear? ;D ;D
I had my kids out in the woods the other day, doing some tree identification for a homeschool project. I found myself explaining all the different names of the trees, and thinking it was rediculous. "Here, girls, this is a Red Pine. I think it's called that because the bark is reddish, or maybe cause the wood is reddish. It's also called Norway Pine, but it didn't come from Norway. That over there is a Red Maple, also called Soft Maple. But it's not really soft, more hard and brittle." "Daddy, why is it called Red Maple then? We're confused." ::) ::)
And according to the pulp mills, Red Pine is Norway, Jack, and Scotch but not White Pine. ::)
Quote from: barbender on September 23, 2010, 08:28:48 PM
I had my kids out in the woods the other day, doing some tree identification for a homeschool project. I found myself explaining all the different names of the trees, and thinking it was rediculous. "Here, girls, this is a Red Pine. I think it's called that because the bark is reddish, or maybe cause the wood is reddish. It's also called Norway Pine, but it didn't come from Norway. That over there is a Red Maple, also called Soft Maple. But it's not really soft, more hard and brittle." "Daddy, why is it called Red Maple then? We're confused." ::) ::)
And of course red pine is in the yellow pine family, and black oak is in the red oak family. It's kind of like aircraft carriers-- you know, carriers of the Yorktown Class, but only one is THE Yorktown.
Yes, we did the oaks too- Bur oak is a white oak, northern pin is a red oak, No, it's not Red Oak but it is a Red Oak ::) ::)
sounds like you guys need to give a tractor lesson you know,
its green but its not a john deere, its red but its not a international, its blue but its not a ford, its orange but its not a allis. :Dpc
I was home-schooled too, BB!
Quote from: paul case on September 23, 2010, 10:28:03 PM
sounds like you guys need to give a tractor lesson you know,
its green but its not a john deere, its red but its not a international, its blue but its not a ford, its orange but its not a allis. :Dpc
My boss has a Massey Harris Ferguson 50 that somebody hog-slop-painted royal blue.