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This is a technique which I have used with great success in suburban arboriculture.. may have benefits in the woods as well... I call it the plunged vertical snap cut.
I talk about it in this second video. It is all ad-lib, so I didn't cover all the bases, but you get the idea.
Many have seen it and been afraid that the falling butt will get the faller. It will fall straight down and slightly forward away from the faller reliably, except in cases where the piece is tip heavy. The real dangers are from overhead falling debris (see the slow motion in first vid at 3:42).. or after the piece gets straight when on the final cut the tree can drop in any direction 360ยบ.
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the following is a bit I wrote about the first video on the arb forums:
I put this video together on a rainy morning to show some more examples of the benefits and use of the plunged vertical snap cut. The 3 trees here are large, 26-33" DBH, with the first ash being well over 100' tall. Also note the very first short clip is a slow motion replay of the still camera shot of the "tripping a widowmaker" video on the hung tulip spar. Many viewers thought the drop caught me as unanticipated. That is a misinterpretation. It was really the cameraman who was not ready for the drop. His camera motion was quite sudden and jerky. However the still camera reveals the calm, cool, and collected look on my face as the piece drops and I step back and look up.
Also note at 3:42, on the slow motion replay of the second cut on the big ash drop, you can see a large hanger falling just after the piece drops. It is these and other overhead hazards that pose the greatest threat to the faller, and NOT the "spear cut" butt of the dropping tree. As long as the piece is not tip heavy, the butt will fall reliably straight down, and slightly forward, away from the faller.
Also note that leaving a top strap does little to slow the piece down when it is attached to the stump. It is only after the tree is off the stump that both sides of the cut can move and allow the tree to rip down in a slower movement. There it is a judgment call as to how much top strap to leave, depending on the forces affecting the drop and the characteristics of the wood fibers. I was forced to release all the trips on the ash and beech, by cutting the top straps, as I had left too much wood on the top straps in those cuts. Note however, that this is still acceptable and puts the faller in no more danger that tripping it from the bottom. On the second cut of the large ash, you can clearly see I was able to actually take a step back from the tree when I reached up to release the top strap with a high cut. Releasing the top strap by making top cut from one side, then the other, rather than reaching from one side, allows the faller to stand just a little farther back from the tree.
Also notice that one of the best benefits of this technique is that it prevents the bar from getting pinched, no matter how the forces are causing tension and compression in the wood fibers. And it is just faster and easier than using many other suggested methods. I'd love to see a video demonstration of a face and backcut with wedges, or key cut on trees this big and heavy (or any other recommended method). Words are cheap. Put up some video and show your recommended methods in action.
The only down side I can see to this technique is the tendency of the saw to kick back a bit during the plunge, especially as the tree gets straighter. That is why it is important to get used to plunging on simple bucking and falling cuts. This is not the time to learn to use the plunge. Also note, I have refined my cutting technique a bit since some of these cuts were made, and would not cut them quite the same today, though the basic merits of the technique are still well demonstrated.
I guess there will be a time when I can't get my dozer or backhoe to a log, but not so far. So I just pull on the base of the log with a chain or long cable. I'd hate to waste what could be the best part of the log to get it un-hung. It looks like this could take several cuts to get the log to fall. Felling the tree that it's hung in seems like "not a good idea". :D
What happens when you are performing this so called "technique" and the remaining stem above you doesn't fall straight down but pushes back towards the stump because of the tension in the trees it is laying on top of. Or when that stem pushes back towards the stump and rolls in a direction that is almost impossible to anticipate landing on you? Or when you are sawing over your head like that and the tree breaks early and you eat tree and chainsaw for lunch?
You couldn't pay me enough to try that method.
Sorry to rain on your demo Mr. Murphy, but statistics and Murphy's law says that one of those trees will get you eventually. And odds are fairly high because you are violating so many safety rules like cutting over your head and working under a tree and hoping that it will not fall your way. It does no good to have an escape route planned as you will never be able to move fast enough to use it. The tree will always win that race and you can only hope that it does not come at you.
Sorry, but no thanks to that method.
What chevytaHOE said: ditto
I have been cutting wood for 25+ years and I never cut above shoulder level. How will this technique work on a tree that has some unseen rot in it? Seems to me it may go in a direction you don't anticipate.
:-X nothing like the blind, leading thoses that cant think ahead..... lol
That would not take place on my job. I would be highly irritated to see a cutter performing that in the timber.
No kidding- I wouldn't want anyone that would pull stunts like that working anywhere around me. Sorry dude, I don't think you are on top of your game as much as you think you are, you're going to kill yourself.
I thought it was very interesting. Your method may come in handy some day . Holmes
Sorry, I'm to impressed. Nothing in that video looked safe to me.
Didn't watch the video, but by the looks of those pics you must be having fun. Don't forget to wear steel toe boots though. Where did you get that fancy hard hat? Having a machine take care of danger trees is probably the best idea. Cable skidders are a pretty handy thing.
I just had to take a few minutes to watch this video. I think it really exemplifies the differences between suburban arboriculture and just plain old logging. Funny how the guy logging when faced with this situation might probably be first thinking of how to do it without wrecking the butt of the tree. Like not making a farmer cut on the tree and having it spear into the ground and remain standing there anyway. Not trying to be disrespectful at all just making an observation. I know you consider yourself a tree cutting professional as I do but I wouldn't have cut those trees the way you did in the video. With all those ropes and pulleys you got rigged up why not just pull the tree off the stump somehow instead of reaching up and trying to saw it off? Even a tiny piece of equipment that would be suitable for suburban tree removal could have been used. And there is a much better notch to use when dealing with a tree that is under pressure that you have to cut, one in which you can cut the tree off square and there is zero danger of the tree splitting up like the one in you video did. There really is no safe method when doing that kind of stuff best to not get oneself into a dangerous situation at all because the law of odds will catch up with a person eventually.
I certainly concur with the other assessments that this is not safe AT ALL. Tension is a very dangerous thing and we're dealing with massive amounts of weight here. Solutions for this type of problem would be: 1) Prevention. Don't get yourself in this situation to begin with. Now I know that we can't predict where each tree is going to go each time with 100% accuracy, but with the improvements made with directional felling techniques, the woodcutter should be able to bore cut the tree (if that's the style they use, which I am very fond of), and use wedges or heavy equipment to safely guide the tree completely to the ground. Everyone gets a tree hung up now and again, your safest bet is to use all your training and techniques to minimize the chances of that happening. 2) Should it happen, use heavy equipment to safely get it down. Some times it can be as simple as driving the skidder up to the log and lowering the stacking blade to push it to the ground. Other times you may need to use a choker and pull the tree out of the other(s). But all the while you're doing this, you should be safely inside the cab of a machine. While cabs aren't bulletproof, you stand a better chance in there than simply standing on the ground.
Safety should be everyone's number one goal in the woods. If you're not familiar with with directional felling (this isn't a shot at you Murphy, I've seen other videos you've posted and you're very competent with directional felling), then you should take a course or seek out training to get familiar with it. It can save your life. I'd also go as far as to say you shouldn't cut a tree that you can't mechanically move. What I mean by that statement is only cut to your machine's limitations. If you have a farm tractor that wouldn't be able to safely dislodge a hanging tree of that size, don't cut trees of that size. Once you release that tree from its stump, you have every and any liability that goes along with it, so it is your duty to safely have it on the ground.
I'm wondering what the best way to deal with a tree like this would be? And let's assume you do not have access to heavy equipment, just you and your chainsaw maybe some simply tools.
Clark
Flag the area to keep people away from it and go get the tools you need to do the job with minimal risk. You could use a winch, come along or even chain falls to help pull the tree down from a safe location.
Ditto to what Jeff has suggested. Also your first cut should be as close to the ground as you can so the tree has less distance to move. When you cut it high like that you don't know if there is any side tension to make the tree come sideways back at you.
If you are familiar with the Game of Logging I would suggest the tongue and groove method. Then pulling the tree sideways off the stump with a winch. That way the tree doesn't "Trip" accidently and you can "Trip" it mechanically from a safe distance.
Quote from: craigc on October 10, 2010, 08:35:04 AM
If you are familiar with the Game of Logging I would suggest the tongue and groove method. Then pulling the tree sideways off the stump with a winch. That way the tree doesn't "Trip" accidently and you can "Trip" it mechanically from a safe distance.
If the "tongue and groove method" you mention is what I'm thinking of, they teach that as a method for bringing down smaller-diameter trees with back lean... it's designed to make a space to drive a wedge that would otherwise bottom out on the back of the hinge.
I do recall something like the tongue and groove for prepping logs that are on the ground... it would keep the two pieces from separating and rolling until you were ready to skid them away. I'm not sure I'd rely on that to hold the tree in this instance.
John Mc
I only watched the "Widowmaker vid" and it seemed to be preceded by many warnings of "don't do this unless you know what you are doing". Also, hadn't he limbed and topped the tree already? It sure looked like it. If so, the tension concerns would have been lessened. Don't condone this, have done it, rather use equipment. However, he was wearing chainsaw chaps, hardhat with ear and eye protection, and using the right saw <grin>.
Interesting demonstration for soliciting conversation, eh?
i can think of a lot more reasons NOT to do this the way it is in the video. my favorite way to fix the problem tree is a chain to the tractor i am loading with if i cant push it down with the forks on the loader.
i get that some folks dont have this option, but look at the video again there is a 2 ton truck that probably is a good enough puller to fix this hung tree. a couple of chains strung out and there is a safe fix. nothing more unpredictable than guessing which way the thing will roll as it is cut loose. thats why they are called widow makers.
i have been known to make a log cut on one that isnt completely fallen and break it loose with the loader. that keeps a person a little farther from harms way.
this guy is not a logger. since loggers get paid for logs and he is not cutting long enough sticks to be sold here anyway. most mills here want hardwoods in 10' 6'' pieces. and yes with straight cuts on the ends. pc
rather than "only do this if you know what youre doing" i see it as "only those who dont know what they're doing would do this."
Maybe ok to use 1 foot off the ground to separate the stem from the roots but 1 foot above your head? I can personally testify that much smaller root sprung trees than what he was cutting can put a bad hurt on you in a big hurry. If you give a tree like that room to move it can be on you before you can pick your foot off the ground to take your first step.
Guys in a couple days we will be laying a feller to rest that was doing that on logging job 5 miles down road :-\ :-\ His luck ran out vesterday. Here in Oregon it is big time fine not to have danger tree flagging tape on jobsite
Jeff, You wrote: You could use a winch, come along or even chain falls ,
What are chain falls?
Jim
If you google chain fall, you will see pics. Some call them a chain hoist.