I need some technical genius to convert the available HP in an electric trolling motor. Pounds of thrust would be approx. 45. Any takers??? ;D ;D
there aint no way to do the conversion with that info. Prop pitch has a lot to do with a thrust rating
O.K. What do you suggest??? NO prop required.
I think ya gotta convert it to seahorsepower then divide by 2,000 ;D
no stats on da motor? Manufacture? RPM's volts?
If'n it wuz that simple, I'd a done did it ::) ;D
Don't know what you need to do with it but my simple mind makes me just try it. :D
That way you find out if its too strong, too weak or jus-s-st right. :D :D
This is toooooo involved to just try it. Too much work
Maybe build a dynometer first...
You have a trolling motor that has no manufacturer?
Mercury------No size rating----------no torque rating-----------no nuttin else rating
I have a Mercury 28 lb thrust and in the manual it says equivalent to 3 hp.
EZ
See there??? Ask a question around here and SOMEONE has the answer. :D :D :D :D
EZ, you just won a free Monkey Blade. ;) :)
Yea but his was 28 lbs you said 45.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) I CAN multiply to get my answer. ::) ::) ::) ;D
How can you do that? I have a minn Kota that has 28 lbs thrust and its rated at less then 2. I Can add the weed gauard and lose thrust or I can get a different prop that has no weed cutter and gain thrust. I can take the prop off completely and have no thrust but I still have the same H.P. rating on the motor.
I can't see how thrust has any immediate relationship to the horsepower,
Jeff, We ain't on the same wavelength. The thrust rating I stated was a common number for comparison ONLY. That's the way they are in the store and on some labeling on the motor. That's all I had to go on.
Since I am not pushing a boat, the HP that, even you stated, is what I was after, regardless of how the accessories can change thrust rating. Probably "Torque" would have been a better word than Thrust, but, they ain't listed thata way ::) ;D
If'n I'da had the amp draw, I cooda used Ohm's Law
Well if you say torque we have no problem figuring out horsepower.
Torque * RPM
Horsepower = ------------
5252
Yer 10000% correct. I have that formula.
Since Mr. Ohm got his famous law punched through the Continental Congress, enabling us to figger such things, could ya just fire it up, under load, and through an ammeter, and get the current draw? Then ya could take the product of Mr. Voltaire and Mr. Ampere, and give them to Mr. Watt, who could then sell you a horse fer yer power. :P
Who's on first, anyway? ???
Voltaire times Ampere = voltaire/amperes. To get watts you need the power factor. :)
Power facter = (grits x RC) + Moonpies
:D
That is Southern Belle, not power factor. ::)
I am sure glad this is all over my head. 8) But, I have one line buried here on the farm, about 4' down. I try not to dig in that area. :D
Someone once told me 748 watts = 1 hp
we had a fairly extensive thread on Watts-amps-horspower etc a long time ago. I can't find it but I know it's there. :)
How do they get the poor horses into those motors? And watt does a horse have to do with an amp. Volt they be a little cramped up in there. Thrust me, I just don't understand.
Mr. CK you seem like your gonna be just fine here. By the way ifin ya gets some new picture or they call you an old fart, don"'t be a worryin, thats just how we/they shows they loves ya. :D :D
Fla._,
After reading your post for the past couple years, there is always a purpose in your questions. What ideas have you for a troll motor??? You know you could get a permanet magnet 12 volt dc motor noboubt cheaper. I am sure you know that you cannot run the troll motor at full power out of water.
DF, need LOTS of power, and waterproof.
Yer not going to ask us were we can find a 4 foot tall rubber duck are ya?
I can just picture Fla Deadheader's son, Ed, hanging, for dear life, onto a submerged root with one hand and aiming that trolling motor at a buried log with the other. :D
Harold, I don't know what your plans are for that trolling motor, but I bet you could do it better with a hydraulic motor. ;D
I think he's building a mini submarine.
Both are too involved and complicated.
Whats so complicated about a motorized rubber duck?
Stuffin the motor up the tail pipe :o
You could practice with a turkey.
Common, clue us in so we can be grateful dead (funny eh?) ;D
Well let's see here.............. His last project had to do with jaring loose submerged logs by unconventional means.
This one needs a powerful motor that will run underwater. :-/
I'll bet he's workin' on one of dem dar torpedee type thingys. :o
I think its an underwater logging arch type thing
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Fla._,
If you need power underwater, go hydrualic, a couple of hoses 3/8 inch (inside diameter) will give you close to 6 hp and it won't weigh a ton. The hydrualic motors will give you a choice of speed or torque. If you need lots of thrust get the torpedee that Chet mentioned, some of the old ones ran on batteries.
What about the hydraulic pump, the control valve and the cost of the motor and hoses to go with the cost of the pump and valve???
Fla._,
What I generally do if it is only to be used one time is make do with junk (harbor frieght type tools) and plan on throwing them away after use (good or bad). If I will use it on a regular basis, I buy or build better quality. It saves a lot of headaches.
"D", I agree with your theory about 1 time vs many uses. If you don't have ANY parts to start with, how do you justify the cost of experimentation, IF your idea is not worth pursuing???
Money is tight and I do not have any idea if my plan will even do the job???
Since we have high pressure tanks on board (3200#) I thought about an air motor. Can't locate a 1--1½ HP air motor, AND, I believe they are energy inefficient, (need a compressor running constantly) ??? I already have an alternator that charges the winch battery on the boat.
I have access to a 120-240V generator, but, can't seem to locate a waterproof motor, AND, the shock factor is greater with A/C power.
Fla._,
When I have a hair brain idea, I spent most of the time on getting it layed out on paper. I have around a 50% batting average and some junk that won't work that I slowly cut up for other uses. Most of the time after I get started, I still find easier ways of doing thinks.
If you got your son in the water, I sure would not use any electical device over 12 volts. The game commission dangle electrodes in the water ahead of there boat and the fish float to the surface. Not a good thing for a person.
Do you have any auction sales of old out of date farm equipment close to you? Some have well designed hydrualic systems on them that may work for some of your experiments. Like pumps, tanks, motors, controls, and the old combines even have hydrostatic drives.
Can you stay with your 12 volt system and get a motor that will provide the rpm and torque you need, since you are not working at any real depth, you should be able to build a box around it with wires input and a shaft with seal around it for output.
Waterproof, how deep and how long?
PVC pipe does a great job, just get as tight of fit as possible because there will be condensation.
What do we win if we guess what you're up to? ;D
Would you tell us if we did guess ???
Two rules of thumb:
Approx 1 amp @ 12 V for each pound of thrust (for current draw estimate purposes)
A 1hp 12V motor typically pulls about 80 amps
It sounds like your 45lb trolling motor is at or slightly over 1/2 hp. (Your mileage may vary :D :D )
The thing about the 28lb being equal to 3hp is because a 3 hp power head loses a lot in the geartrain and cooling pump. In other words the 3 hp gas engine uses most of its fuel to run other stuff besides the prop.
Rick
VA,
I believe DH is talking about a 12 volt electric trolling motor, not gas.
Farm equipment sales ??? I WISH ::) ;D ;D This is Citrus country, or WAS. 24V would be MUCH better, but, I ain't got a motor. Not worried about moisture. I can put a little air line attachment from the dive tank into the motor, to keep it slightly pressurized. I plan on dipping into that liquid vinyl handle cover type stuff. This won't have to be submerged for more than 5 minutes, IF i get it figgered out. Where's Murphy ::) ;D :D :D
DF
I know that FlaDH is working on an electric trolling motor. I mentioned the 3 hp gas because someone else said Mercury claimed the 28lb trolling motor was equal to a 3 hp gas.
FlaDH... to keep the water out of the motor just put a small bladder on it with a slight positive pressure. As you get deeper the outside water pressure will squeeze the bladder and maintain the slightly positive internal pressure. The whole thing is self compensating for depth. has the added advantages of cheap, lightweight and maneuverable.By keeping the pressure only slightly positive, ( 2-3 psi ) it is easier to get the seals to hold up.
Rick
Kinda, sorta what I had planned with the air.
Fla._, been thinkin and thinkin aboot what you wuz gonna do with that dang motor. Done had a couple of idees, but none of em makes any sense. I'm wonderin how long that 12 volt motor would run on 24 volts. I'm thinkin it might suprise you and last at least a little while. Bein under water it wouldn't get as hot and burn up as fast cause of the water keepin it cool I'm a thinkin. When we changed dad's old ford over from 6 to 12 volts we had to change all the bulbs and generator and things but used the same starter, and it's still holdin up. So I'm thinkin it might be worth givin it a try. Also, I'm thinkin that a dc motor will run under water, even if it's flooded. Saw em make a submarine one time on tv out of some kind of big tube, batteries, and a starter motor. One of them shows where they go to a junkyard and make things for a contest. Well, the duct tape and such didn't hold up, the thing flooded, but it would still run. Seems they pulled it out and added some styrofoam or something so it wouldn't sink plumb to the bottom, and just kept agoin. Now, if you try this, and electrocute all them fish and gators , or blow up yer boat or somethin liken that I'll deny I said anythin at all.
Deadheader, If'n I knew what you was up to I could probably have more helpful suggestions, but how about this? A pneumatic wrench has a lot of torque and speed. Why not use the motor out of an air wrench? They are not that expensive. In fact you can usually find them in pawn shops. Air should be plentiful on the boat, creating some sort of water type case should not be that difficult.
:D :D :D :D :D
VA,
Good point about 28lbs thrust being equal to 3 hp gas, I missed the connection. Thanks for pointing this out!
Fla._,
I got it figured out from your post for members only, you need as auger and a system to turn it.
:D :D
Fla._,
must be getting close, only two laughing heads.
Jeff, air would be great. Doubt there is enough power in a wrench. Doing research on the web to find POWER. ;)
"D", :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
A good impact wrench will twist wheel studs off. How much power would you need?
That's caused by gearing, I would think. Speed = no power, most of the time. I WILL research yer idee. There ARE some big wrenches out there.
DanG, I wooda figgered by now, the resident Injun ears would be all over this thread ??? ???
Fla._,
If I am correct about you trying to loosen those stuck logs, I would try working from the surface. Two ideas: 1). Make a nozzle like they use to get pipe under roads, a pump and sections of pipe/hose would allow you to wash a hole under the log. 2) Make sections of rod about 6ft. long that can be screwed together and have an auger on the end. You could handle the drill rod and its rotation from the surface.
How big of a job is it to anchor your barge? Both of the above methods would require the barge held in postion. Not being a "diver" I think that any torque under water would be a big problem.
I've mentioned this in the past, we are NOT allowed to dig with anything but our hands. NO shovels, cranes, pumps or whatever :o ::) ::) ::) We been cheatin a l'il. :o
Does that mean yere building a log shaker?
Too bad some of you guys never made it down here to ride with us for a day or 3. It is soooo different to work in the water, compared to working on land. Took us a while to get the hang of it. ;) If this log would settle back to the bottom, out of the way, I would move on. HOWEVER, it won't and I ain't.
Anybody notice that this thread has 4, read that, 4 pages, and not ONE mention of food??? ::) ::) :o :o
I'm eatin Turkey sandwiches while answering this. Got some pretty good homemade Apple pie for dessert. ;) :D :D :D
You guys ain't tryin hard enough to hep me. :D :D :D :D :D :D
When everybody is thinking up with the log , you come in and through a curve ;) If'in I read your post write you trying to put a log down ??? ???
Why ??? ???
No, this one's been so cantankerous, if it would go down, I would quit. It won't go down, OR up???
If you knew that it was the top of a fork and the other branch was completely submerged what would you do? Is it the small end up or the big end?
There was a Duke of York
He had ten thousand men
He'd march them up a hill,
and march them down again.
And when you're up, you're up
and when you're down, you're down
and when you're only half way up,
Harold is racking his brain out trying to get the &*$@ thing down.
I can't tell if you're trying to vibrate or digout but it sounds like a navigation hazard.
My vote is the air powered chainsaw, The mining contractors I worked for had one and it worked good.
C
Small end up. Where could someone FIND a air powered chainsaw???
Checked out air powered chainsaw. 90 CFM @ 90 PSI ??? LOTS of air required.
HEYYYYYYYY, I know a feller what's got a drag saw that would work. Does it gots a snerkol ::) ???
Fla._,
Have you tried pulling at different angles by anchoring barge and pulling. They pull ships off of beaches doing this, seem that you could work a single log loose with your 12000lb winch.
Who needs food when you got a log to free!!!!
Take a bunch of 5 gallon buckets with handles. Attach to the underwater log upside down. Fill buckets with air. Shake, bang, ram or whatever you can to log. Go home and have supper. Get a good nights sleep. Eat a hearty breakfast. Go back and check log. You will be suprised what a little lift will do if left on a buried log overnight. Works best with a little wave action going on.
Rick
Lots of guys have told us about tyin barrels to logs and lettin 'em pull the logs free. Figgered we could do it with the boat. ::) ::) There is not 1 decent tree to tie off of and do any winchin. There is not enough room in the river to put out any length of anchor line and get a good bite. I have scoped this thing out many times, while Ed was diggin and jettin around on it. Figgered on cuttin it off, IF I can find a big enough saw.
I posted pics before, but, here they are again.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/stucklog3.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/stucklog1.jpg)
Dat dere log .... is it still attached to the roots ??? ???
Probably. The roots should be just buried in the sand, not growing in the sand. There is 6 feet of sand and from there we can touch the log with the 8 foot pipe that we jet with. That's 14' of sand on the end of the log and no place to get rid of the sand.
The log was completely covered with sand when Ed found it with the probe.
If you look at the first pic, you can see close to the end, the color is very different than the rest of the log. That is how much the log was sticking above the water when we left it last January. We have pulled it up to where you see it now, this year. We did raise it another 8 inches at waterline, but, lost that when we unhooked from it the last time.
We hooked a 3/4" Nylon line to it and ran the boat downstream for 100 feet at full tilt. Stretched the line pretty thin ,but, the log won. Every time I get near this thing, I ram it with the boat, from all angles, It does NOT budge, just sways a little. ::) :o
What you need is a trained beaver!!!!!!! 8) Might get with Mike and get him to ketch you one. Now, how you'd get him trained I have NO idea.
Fla._,
Get about a 6 or 7 ft length of chain saw chain, tie a rope to either end, get the son on one end and you on the other and saw the da-n thing off, then go have another turkey sandwich.
That much air to run that chainsaw? :o
Anchor point possibilities.
1) at several points along the bank if its close enough. put a beam across the butts of two live trees and tie off to the beams. this would distibute the weight to several trees not just one.
2) use several power pole guy anchors. I'm not sure of soil conditions I'd go with the tree thing first.
Now that I'm thinkin more put a pulley on the land side and a snatch block on the log back out to a couple of trees. if you winch thru the pulley the boat is hard up against the bank and taking weight off the trees. the snatch block will increase pulling
power and distribute the weight thru the beam across the butt trick.
Ya gotta remember, this is a swamp. There is not much firm ground. That is why there are no large trees along the bank. I would have to go 200 fet or so into the swamp to find solid turf.
Thought about one of them tree limbing chain cuttin thingys. The log is about 40" dia. where we would cut it off??? That would require several Turkey sam witches ::) ;D :D :D
We got a spot, where the logs are just laying around. Water is 30 feet deep and current MAY not be too bad. Gonna be DARK down there, though ::) :o ??? ;D
Only gotta push 'em 20 miles. Hafta take the grill and cook supper on the 6+ hr. trip back to the landing. THAT gets boring ??? ???
Harold...
You have me in aw for the amount of work you gots to do to get them therr logs out . And also for dealing with them little critters that see you as lunch...You seam determend to get that log out and I tip my hat to you for it .Here it would be so simple ,...if it's to wet to get to it , you get a cable and the skidder and voila ... But I know this is useless in your case.
I have one log that I want to go get , it's where I go moose hunting . It's not for the value of the wood, it was cut down in the early 1900's ,my grandfather cut there in the 30's and the marking's on this log where old and not in use then. It's been in the bay in front of my camp for the past 4 years and haven't found time to go get it.
I want it for the marking's that are on it .Put there with a axe by maybe my greatgrandfather, cause he worked that part of the country before my grandfather. My dad worked there in the late 50"s also.
All this to say that I admire your effort at getting these logs all I have is this one log to get and it seams to be a big job ... standing on firm ground and cutting them down sure seams alot easyer....
Fla._,
I got one more idea from the past for (you to shoot down) that the old timer used to anchor steam donkey engines to after they had pulled loose all the stumps. If you have any ground or sand that you can walk on, dig a trench about 10--12ft long and at least 2 ft deep. At the center dig a ditch at right angle to the long ditch and slope it to the surface . With your 12000lb winch a sound 8 inch tree top would work to put in the trench and hook a cable to. This is a real deadman!
Thanks for the kind words and all the help. I will have to take a few pics of why there is not a good way to set an anchor, of sorts. When these trees along the bank get washed out from beneath, the root mass is unbelievable. All the roots are spread out and are a very thin mass. There is nothing but mud and sand and clams under the tree roots. Digging in that stuff would be very tough.
I may sound critical of all you guys ideas, but, every time Ed goes down, I constantly stare at the surroundings and try to visualize how we could get this log loose. If it were lying near the edge of the woods-stream, we would have a much better chance at it. It is actually about 75 feet out into the water. It is further to the other bank. Problem is, there is mud and lily pads on the closest side and it is tough to get the boat in to the timbers edge. THEN, ya gotta push it back out, later. Can't run the motors because of the mud and silt that plugs the screens immediately and would overheat the motors.
For all these reasons, that is why I mentioned if it sank, I would leave it. As long as it defies us, we will fight back. ::) ::)
BTW, this log MIGHT be worth over $10 Grand, if the right guy wants it. He paid $20 Grand for a Pine log. ::) ::) ::)
It ain't ALL for the glory :D :D :D :D
Fla._,
I guess I was too dense to realize that it was a wash-out/windfall, I thought you were after sinkers. I don't think you stand a snow ball in hell chance to get that up if it has a sound root ball. You just don't have enough options that are legal. I would cut it off and take what I could get. Get your self a couple of those 750 lb pull Superwinch and use them to pull chain saw chain back and forth.
Hey Deadheader, what do you have for hydraulics on dat dar boat. They do make hydraulic chain saws.
Florida, how long does a pine log have to lay in that swamp to be worth 20 GRAND. I'm thinkin we oughta go in business together. I'll get me a truck and bring you some pine logs. You drag em out in the swamp where they'll be easy to get, then after the specified time, you can hook to em and drag em back in! Genuine swamp cured pine!!!!!!! I'm glad I don't get out in that swamp much. Iffin I thought I could get 10 grand for that log it'd be hard for me to keep convincin myself that it was against the law to put a charge down there with the roots and blow that thing loose!!!!!!!! Really now, and I'm confessin to be a dummie here, what is so special about those logs that they're worth that kind of money?
Hey FD,
Have you checked into renting a hydraulic chainsaw which will cut up to 43" ?
If the log is worth $10k rental of unit and saw would seem worth it.
No hydraulics on the boat. That wood be toooo eesy. ::)
Have heard about hyd chainsaw. Weeks between paychecks makes it tough to spend money, speshully if this thing AIN'T worth the big bucks. ::)
Haven't met the buyer, yet. ??? He wants a log that will square up 24" X 24", and be, at least, 30 feet long. This might come close, IF I get the whole thing. ;D That is why the big bucks. Specialty market. Tom saws stuff this size, but, it's been cut at 20 feet or so; too short.
Don'T know, fer shore, that it HAS a root ball. When we get a GOOD pull goin, there are bubbles 8 feet or better in 2 directions. That could be 2 logs laying across this one??? Only guessin about a root ball. ;D
About transplantin the Pine "sinkers", rumor has it that one of the big flooring-Pine buyers, is makin his own "sinkers" with new cut logs. ??? That's just rumor now, mind ya. ::) ::) ;D ;D
The 20 grand Pine was NOT a "sinker". It was a standin tree that was logged off. Never seen it, but, believe the guy that told me. HE knows the logger that knows the buyer ;D :D
OOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooops, that should'a been 12 Grand Pine log :-[ :-[ :-[ ::)
The "Legend" lives in Lake George. Another "rumor", that has been told to me by several old net fishermen, is that , there is a Bald Cypress log that would tear up their nets. It is "supposed" to have 5000 bd/ft in it. At $2.00 per bd/ft, that's an EASY 10 grand +. Haven't eyeballed that one, YET. ;D :D :D :D
Pretty funny about when you said(FD) everytime you go by that log you hit it with your boat. I could just picture me up there fishin by that log and you coming up and hitting it with your boat. I'd probally laugh and say to myself, I think that guy had to much to drink. And then when you are coming back and hit it again I would probally say, now I know he's had to much. :D
EZ
:D :D :D ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D
This all taking place on the Ocklawaha? If so where?
Bout 1.5 miles in from the St. John's. Do ya recognize the spot ??? :D :D :D :D
:D :D :D :D It all looks the same but it looks like the Ocklawaha ;D I've spent a little time on it going both ways from the launch at the bridge where SR 40 crosses, at the Moss Bluff Dam and at Rodman Dam. Grandpa used to take me fishing at place just north of Lynne. You could see the BIG bass laying in amongst the submerged logs. Once in while we'd even catch one. The last time I was down there I walked into the same spot and didn't even recognize it. Just goes to prove that a river is a living thing. Grandma's still her place at Forest Corners and spends the winter there.
What's the story with Rodman these days? Are they going to pull all the dams and restore the river?
Most of them places must be beyond Rodman ???
YUP, the morons have decided to return Florida to it's "Pristine" state, what it was before Columbus got here.
They Don'T have a clue what effect draining Rodman will have on the environment. All they see is "la-La Land". Draining the compound will ruin the river AND the St. John's for the rest of eternity. HOW can people be SOOOO STOOOPID ??? ???
Strange thing that I can't figger out, WHO took the Pictures of when Columbus got here, so the Morons will know how to piece Florida back together ??? ??? ::) ::) ;D ;D
Anybody have a helicopter ??? ??? ???
;) ;D :D :D :D :D
Yup all south of Rodman. It's too bad about Rodman. Pretty cool place. I've always been intrigued by the locks and dam at Eureka that have never flooded. The tall bridges are cool too. There were big plans for the canal system.
My solution for getting the log out is to wait until after spring break up and some big chunks of ice have hit it.This should break it loose with out a problem maybe even move it closer to the St Johns ;) :D ;D 8) 8) 8). That's what we'd do up here anyway.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/tomlogloader01.jpg)(https://forestryforum.com/smile/big-grin-3.gif)
Had a feeling that it would come out only a mater of time now . Harold all you need is in the picture ;) ;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Har, spring break up, har, har, dats a good one. Living on a river as a boy, it was always interesting to fish MY stretch of river every new spring and see what winter ice and spring floods had done. One year there would be a log jam so heavy you could not navagate the river but climb on the logs and just drop a line in and around them. The next year every log and tree would be long gone. Forun a toilet seat one time about 16 foot up in a tree hung on a branch after spring high water receded. Maybe I shoulda saved that for finding stuff in da woods. :-/
Some years the river would cut through a camel back and completely change its course. With the high clay river banks it was not uncommon to get a big rain and go back the next day to find a tree that you had used as a hand hold at the top of the river valley, to be now in the middle of the river 75 feet down. The first logging collectable I ever found was when I was 10 on that river after a flood. An old log, with a peavey hook still hooked into it. The log did not have a stamp brand, but it had a piece of iron shaped like a "C" driven into the end. Its now in the Sanford Historical Museum. My Dad said thats where it belonged. :'(
:o;) ;D ;D :D 8)
fd, My son said he has seen air saws for under water.
For what it's worth?????? I would be dumb enough to use a two man crosscut. It would take a lot of air--for the two motors , one at each end--You and Ed : :D :D
Fla._,
Are you going to get that log cut-off before somebody turns it into fire wood?
Update: The "Monument" is still standing tall, in the river. Been figgerin how we are gonna get it down. Got a pretty good idee how it's gonna happen.
FIREWOOD ??? ??? ??? Stick a saw in that thing and it'll pee all over ya. ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D
Florida, somehows I jest knows ya ain't just gonna let that ole log keep whupping ya. Especially nows that you're famous and all ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I just can't really belive you're gonna give up on getting the whole thing,
and cut it ??? :o ;) ;)
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CUT IT ???
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(https://forestryforum.com/smile/SHOCKED.gif)
Oooooh, sorry! :D
It sounds like you have an idea ??? ??? ???
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He's a going wit Tom's
:o :o ;D :D :D :D