Ok, first question.....
I am going to start looking at which mill I want to buy and this will be based on what amount of weight my tractor can handle. I have a New Holland 2320, 45hp with quickchange loader and forks. At the pin lifting capasity is 2000#s. It lifted my planer no problem which weighs 1940 #s so I would say that it is realistic. I lifted 2600#s of OSB the other day and it was all it [hydralics]could handle, and maybe just a little more than it should have.
So...
How do I calculate what log size would be too big for my tractor? Is there a chart that would help? I would be doing mostly hardwoods as that is what I will be using in the shop. I am not going to buy a bigger tractor, and there is no sense haveing a mill bigger than I can feed.
Point me in the right direction on how to calculate log weight so I can figure out max width and length.
Thanks, Larry
Welcome to the Forestry Forum!
There is a Tool Box under the forum extras icon that has a log weight calculator along with some other great programs. Good luck with your new mill.
Very Cool! Thanks.
Larry
what mill are you looking at? pc
Quote from: Just Me on December 15, 2010, 07:38:00 AM
How do I calculate what log size would be too big for my tractor? Is there a chart that would help? I would be doing mostly hardwoods as that is what I will be using in the shop. I am not going to buy a bigger tractor, and there is no sense haveing a mill bigger than I can feed.
Point me in the right direction on how to calculate log weight so I can figure out max width and length.
Thanks, Larry
Check under Forum extras button, then right hand column "tool box" for calculators, there's one for log weight:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=toolbox
Just because your tractor might not pick up a 36" diameter oak log that is 25 feet long doesn't mean you wouldn't want to cut a 36" diameter log, or even a 48" diameter one for that matter. What if it was pine and 8 feet long? or what if you quartered a big log with a chain saw etc etc etc.
The max load your tractor can lift, suppose it was 4500 pounds, doesn't mean you'll want to drive around with that. Also you can figure out how to roll heavier logs onto your mill without picking them up.
Quote from: Mooseherder on December 15, 2010, 07:47:45 AMThere is a Tool Box under the forum extras icon that has a log weight calculator along with some other great programs.
Quote from: Just Me on December 15, 2010, 08:38:24 AM
Very Cool! Thanks. Larry
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 15, 2010, 08:59:52 AMCheck under Forum extras button, then right hand column "tool box" for calculators, there's one for log weight:
:D :D :D
redundant? i probably didnt spell that right. pc
Quote from: Magicman on December 15, 2010, 09:56:59 AM
Quote from: Mooseherder on December 15, 2010, 07:47:45 AMThere is a Tool Box under the forum extras icon that has a log weight calculator along with some other great programs.
Quote from: Just Me on December 15, 2010, 08:38:24 AM
Very Cool! Thanks. Larry
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 15, 2010, 08:59:52 AMCheck under Forum extras button, then right hand column "tool box" for calculators, there's one for log weight:
:D :D :D
:D :D :D
sorry i was only looking for spelling errors
:D :D :D :
Just because your tractor might not pick up a 36" diameter oak log that is 25 feet long doesn't mean you wouldn't want to cut a 36" diameter log, or even a 48" diameter one for that matter. What if it was pine and 8 feet long? or what if you quartered a big log with a chain saw etc etc etc.
The max load your tractor can lift, suppose it was 4500 pounds, doesn't mean you'll want to drive around with that. Also you can figure out how to roll heavier logs onto your mill without picking them up.
[/quote]
This is just the starting point in my process. I tend to go overboard on tools, and I am going to try not to so much this time........
I have broken 63 bones in my life, and fighting with logs is not something I want to do at this point. I looked at the table and just about everything I would want to cut could be handled by my tractor. 36" is huge around here, most would be in the 20-24" range, and I do want to be able to cut 16' plus a bit.
As far as which mill, I don't have a clue, just starting to investigate. There are a lot of WM mills around here, and I do want a bandsaw mill, but I will have to see what is out there and factor in cost. There is lots to read on here and I dop appreciate the insight you fellows have to offer.
Larry
I don't ever overload anything. ::) This one is a 38' sweetgum
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/car_007a.jpg)
I keep seeing references to Sweetgum. We don't have it up here, what is it like and what is it used for? I've never seen it for sale even.
my bobcat will lift a log that is 20' long and 2' daimiter, but it will also lift a log 6' long and 4' diamiter.
i can roll a log into the mill that is 4' diamiter and 20' long.
i have never met log i couldnt cut, and i definetly havent found a log i didnt wnt to cut. and where there is a will there is a way.
Weisy, you certainly bring a smile to my face- I used to have all the pith and vinegar you seem to have, more muscle than judgment, not that I'm questioning yours, just my own. I'd try just about anything if there was some benefit in it. Now that I sprain muscles easier and don't have the strength I used to, I'm a little more careful on what I'll try. Sure, I've cut big-butt logs and got some good lumber out of them. In fact, I still do, but now it takes me a lot more time cause I'm careful some- probably not worth it if I was counting production, but still fun as long as I don't drop it on my hand or toe (which I've done and took a long time to heal). Just be careful while you arm-wrestle those bigg'uns on the mill, hey?
Lj
Quote from: weisyboy on December 17, 2010, 06:51:35 AM
my bobcat will lift a log that is 20' long and 2' daimiter, but it will also lift a log 6' long and 4' diamiter.
i can roll a log into the mill that is 4' diamiter and 20' long.
i have never met log i couldnt cut, and i definetly havent found a log i didnt wnt to cut. and where there is a will there is a way.
Where there's a MILL, there's a way!! 8) 8) 8)
bains over brawn mate, i dont do heavy lifting thats what i have machinery and emplyess for.
i used to struggle moving logs by hand, then i got a tirfur (comealong) winch, then i had a winch on the ute, its amazing what you can move with a 9500lb 4wd winch, then i got a loader on the tractor, once i broke that about 100000000000000 times i got the bobcat, now i need a end loader or drot.
you can do a lot with a small machine if you use your brain.
QuoteWhere there's a MILL, there's a way!!
now thats one for the books.
You would probably also like "Where there's a LUCAS, there's a way" Lucas please send me a royalty check if you start using this. 8) 8) 8) And 5% to the Forum.
na im not a lucas fannatic like allan, he would keep his in his bedroom if he could get it threw the door.
The best answer I can give you is it is a hardwood that is used mostly for pallet lumber in the commercial industry. It is fairly easy to cut but will move on you as you dry it. The lumber is nice to look at and I have seen some things that were built out of it that were about as nice to look at as there is, it is just the amount of degrade in the drying process that makes it a poor tree in the commercial end of it.
I operate a Belsaw with 40" blade. This summer a friend dropped off seven, very wet, 16"-18" red oak logs ten to twelve feet long. I have the NH 1920 tractor with home made forks. We had to pull the logs off of his trailer. I was unable to pick the logs up with my small tractor. The first log was rolled onto my loading ramps and finally on the mill deck. We made one full cut and then we were unable to turn to log on the deck using two cant hooks. My point is just because you can load the log dosen't mean you can handle it. We rolled the log off the deck and with my chain saw ripped all of the logs length wise in half. I was then able to pick the half logs up with my forks. I then cut 4" to 12" one inch slabs with very little waste. The centers on most of the logs were starting to seperate. A few days latter I used the log weight calucator in FF's Tool Box. I was supprised how heavy these logs were. Good luck.
What is a ute?
http://www.youtube.com/v/HVjbf-dHjW0
a "ute" is a utility vehile, i belive you call them pickup trucks.
i have one of these
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nqtruckwreckers.com%2Fuploaded%2Fimages%2F12513455867200%2F12513455867200.mid.jpg&hash=f355aa4eb2e0e96692f63f2aea9a74705c499e11)
winch mounted under the tray
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21903/2924/WINCH_%283%29.JPG)
couldn't roll it with a chant hook.
mate we can roll over a 4 ton log with 2 hooks.
Quote from: weisyboy on December 18, 2010, 07:40:28 AM
mate we can roll over a 4 ton log with 2 hooks.
Just eat an extra slice of bacon in the morning and grunt a little harder. ;D
Here I thought utes were just young helpers down there
Quote from: SwampDonkey on December 18, 2010, 07:53:55 AM
Quote from: weisyboy on December 18, 2010, 07:40:28 AM
mate we can roll over a 4 ton log with 2 hooks.
Just eat an extra slice of bacon in the morning and grunt a little harder. ;D
Vegemite on toast mate.
i have custom made my adjustable cant hooks, everytime we break them i make them stronger. havent been able to break these ones yet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21903/2924/cant_hook_%281%29.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21903/2924/cant_hook.JPG)
40mm pipe with 4mm wall for the handle slips inside (when perswaded with a 9lber) a 2 x 2 x 1/4" wall box section, the hook is lazer cut from a peice of 1/2" plate, 2" wide, (the one in this pic is a test one cut with the oxy.
It looks like the "adjustable" part that sticks through the handle, opposite the point part, would get in the way when engaging a log in a stack. Does it?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_LogRite.jpg)
Not a monster log by any stretch, but about 2 foot on the but end and that was above breast height when standing. You can see the but blew apart in the wind with that splintery stump on the right, barely see it. Surprisingly the log was sound after that. The little log was a different tree that had no reason to begin turning red on the but. Anyway, that big log goes up there for close to 24 feet, extends beyond that brush. I figure it was close to 1200 lbs. That Logrite peavey never flinched when I rolled her onto a stick to keep the but up off the ground. I sure made a grunt or two though. ;D
I Have an LT40HD28G and the biggest log I have sawn so far was a 38" ish X 18 feet (the bell was 42 ish that required a chainsaw trim). I cant tell you if the arms would have lifted it or not because I use a roll way for loading. Had to get the neighbour to put it and about 6 other logs of similar size up on the roll way for me with his 580K Case. The little Kubota we normally use wouldn't even lift them off the ground. Had no problem handling them on the rollway with a cant hook and then the hydraulics once on the mill. I would not have wanted to saw those ones with a manual mill.
There are a couple of pics of some of the bigger logs from that job on the mill but I didn't get a pic of the biggest one till it was turned into 6" X 18" x18' beams. I will see if I can find that pic to post. Took the 2 biggest logs I had at the time to get the 6 beams the guy needed for a bridge over a creek. the decking was 3"x 8" x16". All Lodgepole Pine.
Base on what a 580K can lift i would say we were between 3000 and 4000 lbs each in the 3 biggest logs but I good be a little wet on that weight. Not real sure but I know they were heavy even for the hoe.
I may get smacked with a slab for asking this question but i need help to get some pics in this post. Cant seem to get it to work.
Wouldn't be far off if they were pine or spruce. Big stuff.
I don't know why we don't have red spruce separate from white. Red spruce is denser and stiffer then white. White will snap off with one pass and a red spruce will spring right back. It's a dang tough tree.
its amazing what leverage will do.
the shaft of the hok never seams to get in the way.
the advantage of those hooks is i have rolled logs from 8" right up to 6' diameter with them.
if you cant roll it by hand just hook a chain to it and give it a pull with the ute. ;D
anyway i feel like im hijacking the thred.
buy the biggest mill you can afford, not matter how big it is it will still be to small.
I've loaded some that the dual hydraulics on the SuperHydraulic was not enough. I've had to use an end tong and the log clamp to add additional lifting power.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0488_%28Small%29.JPG)
An end tong chained to the log clamp.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0489_%28Small%29.JPG)
Log clamp assisting the loader lift a heavy log. The loader and the clamp are moved simultaneously to take advantage of both sets of hydraulic cylinders.
This log was approximately 5K lbs.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22539/P1030305%5B1%5D.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22539/2907/P1030310%5B1%5D.JPG)My mill max. is 5,000 lbs This log and others have pushed the limits, There was to much weight for turners to work properly, if i didn't have boom truck probably would have cut log in half. It would be nice to find a scale to hook between cable hook and grapple.That way you could put a weight to log along with BF.
Quote from: Magicman on December 18, 2010, 10:18:29 PM
I've loaded some that the dual hydraulics on the SuperHydraulic was not enough. I've had to use an end tong and the log clamp to add additional lifting power.
Log clamp assisting the loader lift a heavy log. The loader and the clamp are moved simultaneously to take advantage of both sets of hydraulic cylinders.
This log was approximately 5K lbs.
Mr. Magicman, when logs get up to the heavier end don't you have a tougher time turning them than loading? That's been my experience, though more recently I've learned how to use the turner and clamp alternatively, which when working together (and me not making mistakes ::) ::) ::) ) can coax those big ones around at a workable rate. (I have LT-40 Super also)
Your method is what I use, and as you said, "not making mistakes".
I use the log turner and the log clamp simultaneously. Lift the edge of the log with the clamp, position the turner, then drop the clamp. The weight of the log against the turner will spin it a bit. Yup, it is a chore turning a big heavy log. Generally after you open the first face, and always after you open the second face, the log turner will handle it alone.
Bottom line, that two plane log clamp is the key to handling "too big" logs.
Key is not to get the clamp jammed too tight at the same time the claw is tight. If that happens can sometimes get out of it using one or the other toe rollers.
Also I've found it very useful to drop the side supports PARTIALLY to get the log over to the left a little, with this positioning I can get more depth out of each of the initial cuts. Or to drop them completely when the bottom of the log is flat but there's still a rounded corner. This has been mentioned here before. When doing this, one of the routine operations is to go to the back and pry the back end of the log over to the left, using the rear toe roller weldment.
That 2 plane clamp can flip amazingly large cants without using the claw. Once I have a sawn face I try to not mangle it with the claw. The key then is to catch the corner with the claw, maybe after tilting a little with the clamp. Often I put a webbing strap over the claw and ask the customer to pull on the claw so it goes up around the outside of the log. Then I can lower the claw until it gets to the position where I want it to dig in. Next time I do a big log by myself I might rig a cord from the claw through the loader arm chain mount, then back to me, for "remote claw retraction".
Wondering if one can upgrade to the chain turner on an LT-40????
Larry,if you can lift a little over a ton you should be alright with your tractor.My old JD 60 and #45 loader with forks will handle that much and I've had no problems.If you run across the big stuff just cut your first butt log 8',the long stuff just use a little smaller log.The big stuff is OK and good to brag about but alot of them gets old fast, better production with the smaller ones. Frank C.
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 22, 2010, 12:14:36 PM
Also I've found it very useful to drop the side supports PARTIALLY to get the log over to the left a little, with this positioning I can get more depth out of each of the initial cuts...
Wait, wait, wait. Dennis, you've got this swing-mill coming that's the cat's meow for milling big logs. You don't need these Mickey Mouse tricks for milling big logs on that Wood-Mizer anymore, do you?
--Peter
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 22, 2010, 12:14:36 PM
ask the customer to pull on the claw......I might rig a cord from the claw through the loader arm chain mount, then back to me, for "remote claw retraction".
I use this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0378.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0328.JPG)
Hook it to the claw, route it over the loader, and now I can control where the claw catches the log.
Just cut it ole boy.
If it is too big for the mill whittle it down with the chainsaw. The big ones I try and get on the mill before I cut them down to a size the head rig will fit over. I had a BIG pine last summer we cut into 6 pieces like a pie. We first cut it into 3 and they were still to big. I have a timber harvester 30ht. That log scaled out to about 970 bf. I once cut a big pine all alone and I rolled it on the flip loader myself, broke the cant dog handle, that squared up 16" by16" and was 16' long. With all the edging it scaled out to 502bf. I have a 580 case super E 4x4 with the extenda boom. It weighs about 17k pounds. I went to get a oak log I had cut 15 feet long. I have a huge set of tongs that I hook to the front bucket. Well that oak was so heavy all the tractor would do was pick the rearend up off the ground. I had to pick one end up and back the trailer under it. Block up the trailer then pick up the other end and push it on. My flip loader will not pick it up so I use the hilift jack to help it. Big wood is very dangerous. Go slow and take your time. Assign someone to crowd control or cut it when no one is around. Blade cost and ease of repair are big factors in mill selection. Thin kerf porta band would be my suggestion. You will cut nails, you will hit rocks, and everything will break sooner or later. So having to wait for parts from germany can be depressing. Have fun and be safe.
You trying to say that bigger log was 16 foot with 36 mid diameter? That's one huge pine chum. Certainly above the average for old growth pine up this way.
Welcome KingTimber to the Forestry Forum. Got any pictures of your operation?
Quote from: pnyberg on December 22, 2010, 09:21:58 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 22, 2010, 12:14:36 PM
Also I've found it very useful to drop the side supports PARTIALLY to get the log over to the left a little, with this positioning I can get more depth out of each of the initial cuts...
Wait, wait, wait. Dennis, you've got this swing-mill coming that's the cat's meow for milling big logs. You don't need these Mickey Mouse tricks for milling big logs on that Wood-Mizer anymore, do you?
--Peter
Peter, two lanterns in the steeple. It is coming by sea, 36 hours from L.A now. Mickey and I plan to continue to squeak out every advantage of the Wood-Mizer for a good time to come. p.s. see my reply to Mr. Magicman a few minutes ago in the "above and beyond" thread, about where my murine friends enter the LT-40 super. 8) 8)
Quote from: Magicman on December 22, 2010, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 22, 2010, 12:14:36 PM
ask the customer to pull on the claw......I might rig a cord from the claw through the loader arm chain mount, then back to me, for "remote claw retraction".
I use this.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0378.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0328.JPG)
Hook it to the claw, route it over the loader, and now I can control where the claw catches the log.
Alas, it is true what is written....."there is nothing new under the sun"..... but wait....do you put yours through the chain weldment at the center of the loading arm, and then run it up to the hydraulic controls?
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on December 23, 2010, 08:21:43 PM
do you put yours through the chain weldment at the center of the loading arm, and then run it up to the hydraulic controls?
That would be a 90°+ angle on the rope. I run it just like this. The large tubing on the loader lets my rope slip just fine.
When you square it up to 24"X24"X40' it helps to have a log turner and two plane clamp on the mill and the ext.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11861/random_007.jpg)