I have a load of sugar maple coming, frozen sugar maple, that I will be cutting into firewood in the next few weeks. I can't seem to keep my chain sharp when cutting sugar maple in the winter. Should I look into a fancy sharpening tool or stick with good new files?
Not to worry ,it will thaw out or at least it always has in the past .
What chain are you using now?
Try the Husqvarna kit with the little roller bracket that goes over the chain. That seems to be very well recieved by those not wanting to freehand. If you are using safety chain, make sure you are lowering the safety links as well as the drags.
I have an older Husky I think it is a 246? I know, it is a little small but it is what I have. I don't really want to buy a new saw, I know this one inside and out, it is paid for, fits well in my ATV rack for timber cruising needs.
I use the blue Pferd file guide from baileys. It holds the raker file at the same time so you don't have to guess at the raker height.
That's those dam Ants dragging dirt up in to all the cracks, [frozen dirt] like Al says it will thaw out. There isn't much you can do about it on till it thaws out on less you want to sharpen after every cut.
If your running a full chisel chain you'll be lucky to make one cut, as soon as that little point is gone your done.
When i new i was going to be cutting dirty wood i put a round tooth chain on, you can cut about 3 times longer before filing, not as fast but less filing.
I carried a file in my pocket, as soon as the edge was gone, i would touch it up, take about 2 to 3 minutes, like the Dr, says make sure to keep the safety links even with the rakers on a safety chain. [ about 30 tho ]
I would stick with good files.
It may sound hard to believe but I've only experianced frozen wood once in my life time and that two years ago in frozen solid late cut oak .It was about ten below or so at the time .I threw everything I had at that stuff including a 125 Mac with a razor sharp skip tooth chisel . I'd have stood a better chance of cutting concrete .
Sugar maple by it's very nature holds a lot of water so you'd just well sit by the fire until it thaws .It won't burn worth a hoot anyway full of water .
I cut White Oak, Red Oak. H Maple, S Maple down to -40 never had a problem on less it was dirty. Frozen wood will take the edge off after so many cuts, it still cuts good but not razor sharp, then you just grab your file and throw a edge back on.
Al, that oak must have been dirty !
Anytime i cut hardwood i filed my cutters at 40 degrees on a full chisel chain, it slices like a butter knife.[ don't laugh try it ]
I don't know about right now, but Oregon chain would not hold an edge, it was to soft, Stihl chain was the best, but big $$, i had the best luck with Carlton.
It wasn't dirty . Late cut end of Oct, first of Nov . Take down by one of the trimmers and loaded with a skid loader not drug all over with a skider .Several trees plus a giant honey locust .Lawdy some of that stuff was 4 feet in diameter .Now I could cut it but make three cuts and refile the chain ,nope .
Much was 18" to 2 feet and 4 -6 feet long . Typical trimmer fare .Probabley 12 -15 cord in one pile ,fact some of it's still there .Not a big deal because oak takes a long time to get funky .
Now when they finally did get to it the stuff had been shoved around so much it was embedded with dirt .Thawed by then but still a little tough on the chains none the less .
Now, ants dragging dirt up the trunk, never thought of that. Will have to inspect it to see if that is the case. I am cutting it now because the timber marking job I have is a money loser right now with all this snow. I need to wait until the snow pack drops so I can up my production and not put all my profits into my trucks fuel tank. Just when the cutting gets good, so does the timber marking.
I dont know if ants are your problem, but they darn sure can take dirt into a tree and dull your chain. They make nests in there too, and if you ever cut through one of those you are on the file for sure.
I deff. will check it out. How high do they typically carry dirt? I could leave the but logs for later when the wood is easier to cut.
Oh you can hit ants allright just about any place in a tree for that matter .Fact is I blew about 30 feet out of the top of a dead ash in my woods from a bucket truck last summer and hits ants .
Oh that was cute .Part way through the cut with a Stihl 200T running wide open 60 feet off the ground blowing those little biting rascals all over me .It wasn't like I could stop and swat them in the middle of the cut ya know . >:(
That's dam scary, i don't mean being 60 feet off the ground, [ 60 feet off the ground with ants in your pants is]
:D Oh they didn't take a bite out of the royal rump or neither regions ,just annoyed the dickens out of me .One of those sons a b's left a hole in my arm though .I still don't know what that's all about . ???
Oh well at any rate I got maybe a cord and half of firewood and 50 or so feet of nice straight sawlog out of the deal .
Oh but say I did hit ants again when I flopped the spar and they did dull the dickens out of the chain .Big fat ones in the bottom and little nastey ones at the top ,go figure that one .
Quote from: banksiana on January 28, 2011, 10:35:55 AM
I have an older Husky I think it is a 246? I know, it is a little small but it is what I have. I don't really want to buy a new saw, I know this one inside and out, it is paid for, fits well in my ATV rack for timber cruising needs.
Now let me get this straight now .When you say timber cruising would that infer to a person who scopes out a timber tract and guesstimates the board footage with some confusing formula and makes an offer to the land owner per chance ?
If that be the case they usually don't carry chainsaws ,just a checkbook or at least clip board .Then again now of days that would likely be a laptop puter hooked up WIFI .
It's always good to know what chain you're using; chisel or chipper.
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 28, 2011, 09:12:49 PM
Now let me get this straight now .When you say timber cruising would that infer to a person who scopes out a timber tract and guesstimates the board footage with some confusing formula and makes an offer to the land owner per chance ?
If that be the case they usually don't carry chainsaws ,just a checkbook or at least clip board .Then again now of days that would likely be a laptop puter hooked up WIFI .
I mainly inventory, cruise and mark federal timber. Much of the land is not easily accessed so I carry a chainsaw to gain access via overgrown logging road and trails. It is a step saver, once I have an opened access route it saves walking in every day for as long as it takes to get the job done. Usually it involves clearing deadfalls across the roads. I have also been way into an area when a windstorm takes down trees between my truck and the main roads.
My chain appears to be a semi chisel. It is not the pos safety chain. Had one of those once and brought it back after a frustrating afternoon tying to cut some firewood. Since then dealers keep trying to unload one on me everytime I go in and ask for a chain.
I brought inside to my basement several wheelbarrow loads of some green, fresh cut sugar maple from the area my load is coming from and guess what, I have killed several dozen ants already! I love it when I learn something!
I want to see how long it takes for this stuff to dry in my home. It should add some moisture to our already super dry house this winter.
Don't remember what it was called, but years ago Oregon had a chain that was made for cutting frozen wood, it worked very well.
Not sure if they still make them or not, but it would be worth checking.
Quote from: banksiana on January 29, 2011, 03:30:11 PM
I brought inside to my basement several wheelbarrow loads of some green, fresh cut sugar maple from the area my load is coming from and guess what, I have killed several dozen ants already! I love it when I learn something!
You'll have a house full of flies before it's all over with . I've never seen anything like the flies that gather over maple with the sap running out of it .
Green cut hickory draws millions of ants for some reason . Oak draws gypsey moths .
There's just a bug to meet every occasion .
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 30, 2011, 09:21:41 PM
You'll have a house full of flies before it's all over with . I've never seen anything like the flies that gather over maple with the sap running out of it .
Green cut hickory draws millions of ants for some reason . Oak draws gypsey moths .
There's just a bug to meet every occasion .
Ash..Emerald Ash Borer!
Quote from: banksiana on January 29, 2011, 02:17:52 PM
My chain appears to be a semi chisel. It is not the pos safety chain. Had one of those once and brought it back after a frustrating afternoon tying to cut some firewood. Since then dealers keep trying to unload one on me everytime I go in and ask for a chain.
While I prefer the non-safety version, safety chain will cut just fine if it is sharpened properly. Most folks do not lower the safety bumpers when they sharpen it. That is where alot of bad press comes from.
I actually BOUGHT a loop of green chain for the 023L I got for my wife. It cuts as well as the yellow stuff in most situations. BTW, she has never run that saw, but just in case she wants to try....
Quote from: Al_Smith on January 30, 2011, 09:21:41 PM
You'll have a house full of flies before it's all over with . I've never seen anything like the flies that gather over maple with the sap running out of it .
Green cut hickory draws millions of ants for some reason . Oak draws gypsey moths .
There's just a bug to meet every occasion .
[/quote]No flies yet, but I am surprised at how fast this wood is drying. Ants are gone now too.
I ran a full chisel, semi-carbide chain made by Carlton, i found this to be the way to go in any cutting situation. It can be sharped with a hand file, i used a 5/32 file, where it called for a 7/32 file, you can file twice as fast with the smaller file. Once you us a 5/32 file you'll never go back to a 7/32 file, just one of my little secrets after 30 yrs of filing.
[Only on a full chisel chain]
Ants with dirt on their feet,whats worse are those retarded squirrels that think stones are nuts and hide them in tree holes and crotches. Frank C.
Squirrels will hide nuts anywhere .It was a real treat come spring time to fire up my old D4 Cat and dodge nuts blowing out the stack hitting the tin shed roof .Worse yet was those little darlins packing the clutch housing with nuts on an OC_6 Oliver crawler that kicked one out every so often to hit old Al in the noggin .Lawdy did they make a racket too rattling around .About like a dozen hogs eating coal . :D
Quote from: tyb525 on January 28, 2011, 11:01:12 AM
I use the blue Pferd file guide from baileys. It holds the raker file at the same time so you don't have to guess at the raker height.
I just started using the Pferd as well, it does a very job on the .375 Oregon FC chain that I am using. The only problem I have had with it is, it takes the rakers down a little further than I would like for the harder hardwoods, but is still better than me free handing it :D
I haven't really noticed a problem with the rakers, but then I like to file them a bit lower anyways. Having them all a bit low is better than me trying to file them all the same by hand, IMO.
I bought about a dozen pferd files to go with it. I'm still using the original raker file, I've gone through 4-5 of the round files.
Quote from: tyb525 on February 03, 2011, 01:06:16 AM
I haven't really noticed a problem with the rakers, but then I like to file them a bit lower anyways. Having them all a bit low is better than me trying to file them all the same by hand, IMO.
I bought about a dozen pferd files to go with it. I'm still using the original raker file, I've gone through 4-5 of the round files.
Nothing worse than being out on a log pile with a worn out round.
I worked on Mt St Helens after she blew her top and tried everything there is to sharpen. That volcano dust would dull your chain immediately. Went through 2 or 3 chains a week and files by the dozen. My reccomendation is learn to free file, practice makes perfect. I was running a 40 inch bar skip tooth and could file it in a few minutes.Nothing like sharpening after every tree, very exasperating but you do learn to file.Also if you file against the tooth it seems to make a harder edge.This is common in chisel bit flat filing but not many round file that way. I switched to round file on helens due to speed involved, way faster plus those goofy files are expensive.
Oh Lawdy I remember when St Helens blew it's top .Screwed the weather up for at least 5 years . Rained like a cow peeing on a flat rock almost forever .
They had to either install Arps crawler tracks on combines or pull pickers through the fields with crawler tractors to get the corn off .What mess that was .You haven't seen mud until you've seen Ohio mud .Those Mississippi and Louisana swamps don't have anything on us conditions being right which thank heavens they aren't most of the time .Yuck .
Here is what I use to sharpen my semi or full-chisel round-ground chains:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/2596/Oregon_File_holder.jpg)
Works well, easy to get good results. This holds the round file at the proper depth in relationship to the chain tooth, so you don't dive down too deep (putting a hook on the tooth &/or hitting the tie strap) or go too shallow (and end up with a poor point or profile on the tooth).
I use the tool below to set the depth gauges. It rests on the top of one tooth, and angles down towards the back of the previous tooth. The depth gauge pokes up through the hole. one end for setting up for cutting hardwood the other end for softwood (softwood setting takes the depth gauges down a bit lower). I cut mostly hardwoods, so that's the end I use. Using the softwood end can make the chain a bit "grabby" when bore cutting. This tool is sold by Husky. Others make gauges that work on the same principle.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/16836/Husky_Depth_Gauge_tool~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533908363)
I find it works better than the style which rests across the tops of two or more chain teeth, with a dropped section that the depth gauge pokes through. The gauge show above gives you a depth gauge custom set for the tooth that follows it, making it less critical that all teeth be ground to the same length.
John Mc
That Oregon file guide is an old standby and works very well .I don't think the price on them has raised much in thirty years .Except they used to come with two files and a depth gauge included .
Al, I don't know why you have a hard time cutting frozen maple in the cold. ::) I never did. Maybe it's the cold and not the frozen maple. :D Oaks have a lot more water than rock maple when green, just compare the green weights and the 12% MC weights. The oaks have 7-8lbs more water when green and weigh about the same at 12%. ;)
Baileys has a good economic sharpening guide, and there are others. See one in Lee Valley as well, looks like the one in most hardware stores.
As far as prices go, 16"-20" chains have been $20 for 30 years. ;D
I don't have a problem cutting stuff when it's frozen because I have enough good sense to cut it to firewood length ahead of time .It's only those knuckle headed tree trimmers that give me fits over that stuff but they just don't know any better .Besides that they are unteachable or so it seems . :D
Good heavens I once took five minutes of my valuable time and taught them everything I knew .They're still stupid . ::)
:D :D :D :D
Must be a tough bunch to work with Al. ;D :D :D :D ;)
Quote from: CX3 on January 28, 2011, 04:53:00 PM
I dont know if ants are your problem, but they darn sure can take dirt into a tree and dull your chain. They make nests in there too, and if you ever cut through one of those you are on the file for sure.
I've never seen ants take dirt into their tree galleries. May be confused with their excrement (frass) I suppose. All I ever see is saw dust at the tree base they chewed and spit out. Never saw an ant in a hardwood tree neither. Spruce and balsam have all kinds of them when the tree begins to go downhill. I have a whole darn colony of them black winged ones out in the cow shade spruce behind the house. Every once and a awhile a good wind with cause a tree but to explode. 35 years ago my father had the brain wave to limb up them 4"-6" limbs so he had a view of his field and the mountain. Worst darn thing, two fold, the snow fence was now gone and the trees got but rot inviting the carpenter ants. Spruce don't heal up fast like pine and this is what your left with. ::)
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 06, 2011, 05:56:53 AM
:D :D :D :D
Must be a tough bunch to work with Al. ;D :D :D :D ;)
Oh they're getting better .They were just a little slow on the uptake until they had to fight those 6 foot pieces out of a pile after they had been shoved around with a skidloader and full of dirt .Then the cheese got binding . :D
Actual most local maples are the soft variety from in town removals. In the past they didn't even fool with it .Off to the land fill it went . It's lousey firewood but it does burn .
I've never cut into any that was frozen only that oak a few yers ago .On a live take down in mid winter the stuff isn't frozen no matter what it is unless you fiddle around and not buck it ,which I don't .