2nd log of the Day. Minimal Damage, just a set of saw teeth and a couple dinged shanks. The Shoe nails are still in this one. You can see one sticking up near the left side of the saw marks.
I got lucky, an inch deeper and i would have hit her full bore. I
guess if ya gotta hit a horseshoe, this is the spot to hit em. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/horseshoe.jpg)
Kinda reminds me of how some of my customers act.
"you almost missed it. Just took the top of the head off. Good thing you weren't any deeper."
..........as I'm removing a blade that has a one and a half foot section of teeth sheered from the body.
Other sayings that may fall into the same catagory would be>
"Kill it again! Kill it again!!"
My wife was excited after i killed a huge coral snake back in the early '60's
"what weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead"
My algebra teacher in the 10th grade.
"A hundred mile an hour head-on collision will kill you really dead"
............as opposed to a 90 mile an hour collision? :D
Tom, yer not a circle saw guy. Hitting it that way is a GOOD thing. Hitting one of those with a band, it really dont matter where you hit it, the band is history. With the circle mill hitting a hunk of iron that size could mean THOUSANDS of dollars in damage, not just 20. As it was, the saw teeth were new of course, so it was about a 50 dollar loss for that, plus down time. Very Lucky.
Yeah, I know. :) You circle mill guys are tough. I'm not so sure my nerves could stand running a 5 thousand dollar blade through a log. I have chest pains now when I lose the $20 blade. :D
This one made quite a racket. The blade did not hit solid but followed the edge of the shoe. I knew by the noise and the spark show, this weren't no ordinary nail. :D
Jeff,
What are you trying to do? Scare these band saw guys to death showing stuff like that. One of these days I'm going to drag out some of my old pics of things like that that I've hit. And sometimes I didn't even know I had hit something until the log is shinning on gig back.
Yikes! That shoe could of been as bad as it gets, unless you run your saw through a cannon ball or something. :(
Jeff dont youall have metal detecters :o :o . can you estemate how far up the tree it was? i have heard of one being 40 feet up .didnt think a horse could throw a shoe that hi :o :o :o
There is an old thread floating around here somewhere that has "Things found in a log", Woodhaven. Maybe you should look for your pictures and bring that thread back. :D
Stump Jumper, I heard that Michigan horses climb trees. They're trying to stay out of the snow. :D
Jeff,
What would have happen to the saw if you hit it head on. Damage the teeth and the blade itself. Not been around circular mill enough to know how bad it can get.
::) ::)
This was a 10 foot butt log. Near as I can count, the tree was about 45 years old. It was about a 15-16 inch log. This picture shows the shoe was in the tree when it was just a sapling. The pith is in the center of the shoe and the show was horizontal in the tree. This picture is the position the tree would have been in.
And nope, no metal detectors.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/horseshoe2.jpg)
Lived next to a guy in Arkansas, that had a mill years before. Power was lacking in them days, so, they used a flywheel of some sort, to help the saw get through the log. One day they hit a shoe head-on. Heard that it ripped whole tooth sockets off and broke the mandrel. Flywheel part went out the end of the saw shed???
My old neighbor was offbearing. He said the guys left out like Quail gettin up. ::) ;D
I never hit nothing bigger than a rock or White Insulator. ;D
ronwood,
The potential is there for catastophic saw failure. Not likely, but certainly possible. That means the whole saw coming unglued from the arbor and throwing shrapnel. Not a picture thatI want to be in. More likely would be to knock off several shoulders. The meat part of the saw that holds the shanks and teeth. Generally over 4 digits to repair.
Hey Jeff,
I got a old 48" blade that was given to me. It has a 8" crack in the center of the dish. All the teeth and shanks are still in it. Except for rust and the crack it might be usable. There is no saw shop anywhere around here that I now of. You think it would worth the expense to ship it off to have it looked at? I was told they were still using it even with the crack but it did have a lot of viberation. If it could be made usable for a thousand dollars or less it would still be a lot cheaper than a new one.
Hey woodhaven...I know you were addressing Jeff ...But I gotta question...is it a hairline crack?
Are you little nervous bout spinnin it ?
I would maybe weld it then see if itll stand up...
A little dicey though eh?
Don
I would absolutely not run that saw till its repaired. I have heard of saws that were cracked fragmenting. Cracks are repairable, but in my book, the saw is never quite right. Ya know what that cracked saw is good for?
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/saw_cutout.jpg)
Now that's cool. Would look great in MY living room. :)
I like that saw, anyone ever offer you something for it???
Ed
Jeff,
It sure seems funny that a mill operation your size would not have a metal detection system. It seems that the liability of not having one would be more than the cost of having one. I sure wouldn't want to be around if a circle blade comes unglued.
I was wondering if the guys scaling the logs look for mineral stain in the but of the log. With a piece of iron that big it looks like the stain would be visable
Some of the species I saw don't stain more than an inch or 2 from the iron. No stain on the butt, none on the previous cut, then suddenly the screech of sawing metal.
That is scary I am still new at this. I will have to put that in the memory banks.
Jeff saws so fast that the log is gone before his eyes focus on the end of the log. He spends most of his time making sure he doesn't hit one of the off-bearers with the boards as they fly past.
For him to look for stain would be kinda like "Fire-ball" Roberts stopping on the #2 curve to change a flat.
Have you ever seen his little movie showing him cut a log? WOW! Wildflower took it with their digital.
Ed used our Digital last week to make a movie of "Homey" in action. Didn't turn out too well??? Any input from someone that does this??? We have a Sony FD-83
A few years ago we took a few loads of logs to a local mill and the guy who scaled them looked at the butt of every log.We had a 30 plus inch Walnut with blue stain in the but.they rolled it over to the side and ran a metal detector over it and they cut the metal out with a chainsaw. Then they payed me blocking price for the rest of the log. They also had metal detector the logs went thru after they were debarked.Seems like a small price to pay for safety and loss of down time.
In this part of Northern Michigan we are pretty lucky to have large forest lands that are pretty much inhabited only by nuts and squirrels and hunters. We don't get that much metal. Its increasing, but its still usually just nails or bullets. Our mill has been there since 1971 the sawmill itself updated in 1984 the debarker around 1994. We still have the original Morbark chipper and other support decks and conveyors. Metal detectors just were not put in around here then or even later on, but I know one of the mills in the next county have installed one because they have gone to a merry-go-round bandmill/resaw.
I would rather be around my saw when it hit iron, then a band head rig with that big ribbon of teeth.
There was zero outward signs of metal in this log, even looking back at the slabs and things. In aspen, stain is usually very localized to the area around the tramp metal. The picture below is the block I cut from the log. It contains almost all of the associated stain.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/horseshoe3.jpg)
The worst things I've hit are nails and barbed wire. Grandpa hit some bad stuff like big spikes and lag bolts. He refused to saw black walnut as up here the only place they grow are around old homesteads so every tree is almost sure to have hardware in it. He knew this from experience.
That shoe looks like it'd be bad to hit. At least if something flys a part you've got a nice safe cab for protection. It does have bullet proof glass ??? I wouldn't like to hit something of that magnitude with my mill :o.
Yep, from the waist up when yer sitting its bullet proof glass. From the waist down its 1/2" plywood. :o :-/
That's good and bad :o ;);D
Buzz-sawyer,
The crack is hair line enough so the only way you can see it is flexing the blade. I know if I drilled a small hole at each end of the crack to stop any father splitting before welding it would take care of the crack. I have never had the blade on my mill and don't want to waste money on it. But if I could make it usable I would at least have a spare. Right now the only 1 blade and its on the mill. I have been looking at this thing for years up against the shop wall and temped to try something.
Jeff,
Your pic might be the best idea.
Jeff looks like you could not have hit that better if you tried! I'm glad to hear no one got injured, I haven't hit any thing worth mentioning since september, I've been working on getting the owner to put in a side bar add but he doesn't want to spend the money right now, I'll keep at it.
John
Every now and then I get a custom sawing job for someone who really knows about wood and has some common sense. The man I am sawing for right now is one of those people. He cut some oaks off his place, near his pasture. He tried to get as much of the butt log as possible, but when there was a chance of there being metal in the log due to an old barbed wire fence, he cut off the log about six feet high. He pointed out to me some mineral stain and told me that the tree had a fence running through it, that he had made sure he cut it high enough, and if I did hit metal that he would of course pay for the blade. Nice man. Good customer. However, for every one like him I get five who don't give a DanG about where the logs came from or even give a thought as to old fences or signs or tree houses or whatever. They just don't use any common sense and when I hit tramp metal and charge them for the blade they want to "negotiate" by saying that the blade isn't completely ruined and "Can't you sharpen that out?", rather than paying my customary (and explained beforehand) charge of $25. Jackasses! I even had one fellow who didn't mind paying the charges as long as the wood got sawn. I had taken what would have been more than a normal day's worth of blades to the job and used every one of them. Sure I was paid for them, but I didn't have blades for the next job the next day. Sometimes I think I should charge more for hitting tramp metal, as often it takes quite a while to get the blade out if it is broken, and the $25 just covers the cost of a blade, not the down time to change it. Granted it is usually not a lot of time, but it does add up. Sorry to ramble, but that was on my mind. ;)
Woodhaven,
Try Stewart's Saw in Gatesville N C ,they have been in buisness for a long time and do good work. Just not very cheap
Those are feelings that I bet are felt by us all. As a sawyer you realize that your tools are not limitless. I have had concerns about not having any blades left for the next job too. There isn't much you can do about it but try to explain to the next customer why you aren't working. the only way I have solved the problem is to hold back 5 blades in my shop. When I run out of blades on the customer that is paying for blades and tearing them up, I tell him "I'm out of blades until I can order some or make some". Then he gets to wait, I get to work and the next customer isn't impacted. It's what some righteous folks may call a "white lie" but I don't know how else to do it.
I'm glad that you are holding your temper and trying to satisfy a customer. That's my kind of guy. Most customers are ignorant to the sawmill business and their first effort is a learning experience. It's easy to turn them off to the whole procedure if we come down on them like a ruthless dictator. Now the 3rd time, they should be learning something and sternness isn't as much out of order. :D
Quotethe only way I have solved the problem is to hold back 5 blades in my shop. When I run out of blades on the customer that is paying for blades and tearing them up, I tell him "I'm out of blades until I can order some or make some". Then he gets to wait, I get to work and the next customer isn't impacted. It's what some righteous folks may call a "white lie" but I don't know how else to do it.
I'm glad that you are holding your temper and trying to satisfy a customer. That's my kind of guy. Most customers are ignorant to the sawmill business and their first effort is a learning experience. It's easy to turn them off to the whole procedure if we come down on them like a ruthless dictator. Now the 3rd time, they should be learning something and sternness isn't as much out of order. :D
That's a good idea, Tom.
Yeah, it helps that the sawmill makes lots of noise, sometimes. That way you can mutter under your breath and no one hears you! You've got to be patient and remember that you would do some pretty dumb things if you tried to do thier job for a day.
;D
A local sawmiller told me he once found a gate hinge buried in a log.
There is an old clothes line pulley embedded in a maple in the front yard, completely overgrown. I used to see it there 30 years ago, then it slowly got absorbed. :D :D
I am Borg, resistance is futile. :D
A Treckie, I see. A truer saying in our case working with trees and wood might be,
I am TREE. Resistance is futile.