I have started sawing with a WoodMizer LT40 after a break in sawmilling for 25 years.
I previously had a 48 " insert tooth blade mill and it took a year to figure out how to saw straight and get some production. My mentor stressed proper speed , feed and power. The necessity to make chips not dust. After a while I could hear when the saw was running right.
Question- What should he thin kerf mill sound like and what should the saw dust look like?
Not sure i've ever heard the band cutting. Half the noise my mill makes comes from the engine and the other half from the rattling of the blade wheel covers. :) :) Now feel is a different matter. Hard to describe but the feel of a sharp perfectly set blade cutting is much smoother than after it loses the sharp edge, or when a tooth is out of set.
Welcome to the Forum!
Like postville said, with an engine running, you'll not hear the teeth cutting wood. With an electric motor for power, you may hear the blade and the change of sound as it cuts but it's hard to use it to get a fix on the feed rate.
Sawdust will depend on what you're sawing, how dry it is and the blade configuration - rake angle, set, etc. The closer to coarse cornmeal the better. Often it's more like coarse ground flour.
There are so many blade configurations available it's hard to say what to look for. Then combine that with types and conditions of wood (dry or green, etc.), it's imposable to give a good answer.
Most agree that a blade with a 10 tooth hook angle works ok with about any wood. Harder woods saw better with less of an angle - say 4 – 7. People use blades with up to 13 for soft woods.
When everything is going right, you should make good, straight cuts. When you start to get wavy cuts, it's time to question if you're trying to saw too fast or have a problem with guide adjustment, or maybe a blade of a different tooth configuration would perform better.
One thing to get adjusted to is how many board feet to expect out of a sharp blade. Cutting dirt logs or hard logs may shorten the sharp life of a blade to as little as 200 bf. Then again a sharp blade may last 1,000 bf or more in clean, fresh logs.
3 posts in and bibby's talkin food. your mill will be singing you a song, its' up to you to here it. that only comes with time,time and more time..
Like circle sawing, it just takes some time to get a feel for it. Bandmills are perfectly capable of sawing good straight lumber, you just have to know what to do if it doesn't, just like a circle mill.
Fortunately, the blades don't need hammered, and it's much much cheaper to replace one when you hit metal.
I can't speak for the mills with a remote station. I can certainly hear the blade on my walk-beside Wood-Mizer.
'Way back when I was running someone else's mill the owner was sawing and suddenly grabbed for the valve on the water tank. When I pulled the flitch there was a big pitch pocket on the cut face. I asked him how he knew it was there and he said he could hear the sound of the blade change. I thought he was kidding me.
For the first two years with my own mill, I kept trying to hear the sound of the blade (while wearing earmuffs and standing beside the gas engine). I couldn't hear anything but the muffled engine noise.
I eventually gave up trying to hear anything -- I figured my old boss had been pulling my leg. And then one day I suddenly realized I could hear a very distinctive hiss from in front of me when I was sawing. Was that the blade?? I listened carefully before starting the next cut and it was gone. When I entered the cut the engine revved briefly as it powered up to pull the blade through the wood -- and as soon as it settled into the cut I could hear the hiss.
So it's there but your brain has to learn to filter out the engine noise. And of course your hearing has to be good in that particular frequency range.
As ole Brucer says theirs kinda a hissing noise when a band is cutting and alls right. The load on the engine tells you alot.My own bandmill has a three phase motor and its hard to tell the load until its too much.From experiance you get to know the feed speed, I tend to be conservitive.Your dust will be a little corser than from a tablesaw and so much less.I have a hydraulic feed, finely adjustable, and tweek it often for optimum feed,edging boards you can really move. Frank C.
I've never sawn on a bandmill, only on a circle mill. But, I've seen the demonstrations, and I always thought I could hear the blade. Maybe it was my imagination or maybe it was because I wasn't next to the engine.
postville,welcome to the forum.Sawing gets in your blood and stays there,doesn't it?Is the LT new,used?What's all the lumber going to be used for?
Hard to describe but you can tell a happy band from its sound.If you hear a ticking sound shutdown as quick as you can band is about to break,I'am never quick enough.Frank C.
Thanks all for responding.
I am on a 25,000 foot job for a company called Walnut Hollow that makes a line of craft products for hobby use. Mostly clean basswood, 8 foot, winter cut, up to 18" diameter but mostly 13-15". Perfect job for starting up again.
I hear a hissing sound that reminds me of when the circle saw was right. I think it is when all the dust is really flying out, being contained by the gullet. I am feeding to the sound of the engine, pushing as much as I can before really dogging it down. 25 hp Kohler.
I got a real jump start in learning from both Cook's Saw and Wood Mizer. The customer support people at WM are great and easy to reach. The Cook's website is really informative as is the video that came with a setter I got. I switched to the Cooks super sharp blades and they are great , really throw the dust and want to saw straight. As a matter of fact, the stationary roller guide got loose and I had sawed a few boards before I noticed, and it was still sawing straight! That was similar to the cirlce saw when right, it never touched the guides.
Some differences I do not like with the kind of rig- Slow job to set out the taper, cannot gig back without raising the head, only one dog for long logs, don't like pulling to turn a log as opposed to lifting with my legs with the cant hook.
Did find out from a guy at Wood Mizer a tip that hurried things up- no need to dog a log after a 180 degree turn. It will just lay there. I am flitch cutting the basswood, they want the bark. I dog and make sure if there is sweep to keep the "ears" out, and cut pretty close to half way. Turn and finish up to a 1 1/8 " board. No need to fight the dog with the moveable guide and ready to load the next log without taking out the dog.
Thanks for the help , I will pitch in on the circle saw questions with what I have learned. Most problems are in the mill not the blade, I'll explain later. Bob
Think that's the best way to run a bandmill is by sound. You can sure hear it when the blade dives and the blade isn't touching the rollers. You suddenly have a loss of sound. We pretty well run every blade till it breaks. On some blades, you can kind of hear it when its close to breaking. Some you can't.
I can hear my band when sawing , I wear ear muffs too. I have been sawing since '93 when I bought my WM, it took a while to get acustomed to all the noises and to difirenciate all of them from one another but with time you will also hear your band sawing. A good sharp blade will almost pull itself into the log, you will notice that as you saw the blade will need some pushing , then after it will start to wave some , try to remove and set asside for sharpening at the time its needs a push.
I don't know if you have broke a blade yet or not while sawing, if not when you do .... and it will happen, let us know ;D :D :D Dat first one that breaks for ya :o :o :o
Quote from: postville on March 17, 2011, 07:58:44 AM
Thanks all for responding.
I am on a 25,000 foot job for a company called Walnut Hollow that makes a line of craft products for hobby use. Mostly clean basswood, 8 foot, winter cut, up to 18" diameter but mostly 13-15". Perfect job for starting up again.
Are you by any chance in Postville, WI. ? There are a lot of hollows filled with Walnut down there, I've spent a fair amount of time cutting them down :) beautiful country...
Welcome postville, to the Forestry Forum. I guess that I listen more to the engine sound as it enters and leaves the wood. With my mill, there should be very little variation.
I definitely think sound is the way to tell. With the old manual feed mill I could really feel it too. Good hearing protection, plug and muffs, is the best because it really cuts the engine noise more than the blade noise. You can really hear the high pitch of the blade "hiss" and the occasional "zing" of metal. My dad is always impressed that I can go right back to the spot I heard metal and point it out.
Ryan
That's the one benifit of having a manual mill, I can go by feel and by sound. I can hear the blade and the engine, and if it isn't getting enough water then I can really hear the blade.
To Northwoods 1, yes Postville WI. I have the blacksmith shop there as my main business. We have fixed a lot of logging equipment, come by if you get into a jam next time. Bob
On the LT70E I can hear the blade real easy and can tell what it is doing. On the Lt40HDG25 I more like sense the blade because the mill and I are one. It may have something to do with the 10,000+ hours we have spent together.
One time I was at a sawing show and was over by the Boys in Blue watching them saw when there was a zip zip sound. I said to the men around me "Well there is two 8d nails!" and they just looked at me. The Boys in Blue finished the cut and pulled two small nails and changed the blade and finished the log. They loaded the next log and on the first cut there was a ZZIIPPP! and then the blade went south and smoke poured out. I said "Deck screw!" The Boys in BLue pulled a chainsaw out cut off the slab to get the blade back out and cut out a deck screw out of the log. A man standing next to me asked how I knew what was in the log. I told him I cut a 5 gallon bucket of that stuff every year and after a while you learn what it is by the sound.
So in a few thousand hours and a few 5 gallon buckets you will know what to "sense" when you become one with the mill.
Quote from: postville on March 18, 2011, 07:03:31 AM
To Northwoods 1, yes Postville WI. I have the blacksmith shop there as my main business. We have fixed a lot of logging equipment, come by if you get into a jam next time. Bob
Bob I actually have stopped at your blacksmith shop before. You weren't there at the time. I met you at a UMBA meeting when you had Dorothy Stiegler demonstrating, I bought the flower she forged as a demo when it was auctioned off. I'm a blacksmith too, but nothing like you that is for sure, you have REAL working blacksmith shop! Heck I will put a link here and I hope you don't mind,
http://www.postvilleblacksmith.com/ (http://www.postvilleblacksmith.com/)
Lots of folks here might find it interesting...
Thanks, I'd like to visit your place some time .
Really thought the carved book was clever and well done, did you think that one up? Bob
Quote from: postville on March 18, 2011, 07:52:22 PM
Thanks, I'd like to visit your place some time .
Really thought the carved book was clever and well done, did you think that one up? Bob
Thanks, I did think that up. Here is more crazy things:https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,46176.0.html (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,46176.0.html) I'd like to stop by your shop again sometime.
I bought a LT40 a couple years ago and have been going through the bandmill learning curve myself. It is a really good mill I am happy with it. I have been primarily cutting pine, sawed a few logs today and made some beams and a fireplace mantle for someone. My experience so far is it seems like if you keep a sharp blade and the feed speed moderate it will cut perfectly. I definitely can hear when it is cutting right, not only by the sound of the blade but if the feed speed is just right the engine will seem to lug just the right amount and you can feel that everything is working perfectly. If you ever need logs down your way I know a few people who do a lot of work not to far from you.