No intention of starting a war here. I'm just looking for some input on a purchase that is being planned for July or August.
We traded in a 1993 Dodge Dakota on my wife's VW Jetta Diesel and I am really missing having a truck. Right now I'm doing a lot of "internet shopping" and want to gather as much information as is helpful.
Internet research leads me consider the following:
Toyota Tundra - $34,545
Ford F-150 - $31,655
Dodge Ram 1500 ST - $21,730
All of them are outfitted with about the same equipment. Until now I have been under the impression that all three were the same size, but am now beginning to think the RAM 1500 is smaller - otherwise there couldn't be that big of a difference in price.
Objectives for use of the truck. Haul firewood, haul lumber from the sawmill, tow a possible portable mill. In other words, not a lot of heavy duty use.
Can any of you help me sort out the options or add more that I should put on my list?
Thanks for sharing your experience
i cant imagine buying a new pickup to haul firewood, lumber or tow a sawmill. do that stuff with it very long it wont look like a new pickup for long no matter what the hood ornament is. pc
You could get a great used truck that could do all that and then get you to town and back every day for under $5k, I got a 2001 Chevy 1500HD V8 with a service body and ladder rack for $2500. I can fill it heaping full with firewood and it doesn't sag. It has 180k on it but still runs great.
If it was me, I'd buy used and let someone else take the depreciation hit.
X2
No question buying used and paying cash is the best way to go- we don't do loans of any kind anymore. Only thing to watch out for are the worn out trucks. I've got one that looked like a great deal at first- $1,000 for a 91 F250... except a new engine, new tires, new shocks, new brakes and a wheel axle seal bring the total up to almost $6,000 now. Son was right: cut your losses but should have done it before the engine...
Lj
Another vote for used. Even if you have to put an engine in it.
I have a '98 Dakota for sale cheap ;D
Only thing I would suggest if it's going to be a work truck is a stake body truck,with boards for the sides. I had one on one of my trucks and really liked it.No fenders to bang up,no tail gait to bend. Just get it long enough to stick out past the bumper.The one I had when I hauled chips,sawdust,gravel,it all would hit the bumper. I made the body about a foot longer and cured that problem.
I also vote for used, but I wouldn't be looking at a 150 or 1500. It would be a 250 or 2500.
I drive a Tundra and have added overload airbags for hauling heavy loads, but that does not increase the safe load carrying capacity of the truck. It simply allows you to overload it. Not good and I don't recommend it.
I realize that your thread said "small truck" but get a ¾ ton truck and your future will be happier.
Hi. For many years I own a F150 and 6 years ago I bought a used 2000 F250......a world of difference, you feel the power, I mean the stability of the truck when you haul . The truck is stable, the rear and front end is not **swinging** . Axel is 4.10 and made to pull. And believe it or not it is more economic than my previous f150.....so if it is to work, tow etc....buy a working tool the brand YOU want but do consider a 3/4 ton...good luck.Roger
I also agree on the 3/4 ton over the 1/2 ton.
I'm in camp with these other guys, but that's just us. If you have definitely decided on one of the three you listed, buy the Dodge. It isn't that it is necessarily the better truck, but the Ford is simply NOT $10,000 better. I personally wouldn't even look at the Tundra for more than half of that asking price. ::)
Thanks for all the input.
I don't have anything against used - just don't want to buy someone else's problem.
I did get a PM from another FF member that has a truck for sale, but we are nearly 1500 miles apart which poses a big problem.
After reading all this input, I think I will double my efforts to find a used truck. In my opinion it doesn't have to look pretty, just be in good working condition.
Wes, I'm in the same camp as the others; get a used 3/4 ton (preferably a 4WD).
If'n it were me, I'd look for a late model Ford F250 with a 7.3 diesel.
I'd vote for the 3/4 ton as well if you plan on hauling lumber and firewood. The 3/4 ton will get the job done in one trip where the 1/2 ton will take 2. I've had both and blew shocks regularly on the 1/2 ton hauling firewood. The trade off is worse gas mileage w/ the 3/4 but not always. Brakes, tranny, and suspension are all heavier duty and if you use it enough you're money ahead. Look for used - the good deals are out there esp if you can pay cash- the new ones are priced outta sight
Wes
I could not agree more with the others that say to buy a used truck rather than a new one for hauling logs and firewood. Even better, buy a used truck and a nice dump trailer and you really have it made.
This is my used truck that I have about $6000 into. I traded another truck worth $4000 for this one and then put another $1000 into it to fix a rear main seal leak and some other minor issues, plus added an electronic brake for towing. It is a 1988 Chevy 3500 one ton with 454 motor and 84,400 original miles. It is built like a tank and I have pulled over 15,000 pound with it and hardly knew it was behind me. It even came with the cap, new tires, new rims, new exhaust, bed liner, and was completly redone inside and out.
Just keep looking and you will find a good deal if you are patient.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/2682/1988_truck_side2.jpg)
I use this truck to pull this dump trailer. This is really the cats meow for hauling wood and I highly recommend it. I have since added 12 inch high board to the sides to make them 28 inches tall. It will take a full cord at a time and is rated for 9990 lbs gvw. I like the idea of a dump trailer better than a dump truck because you can lend it to friends without giving up your vehicle for the day and unlike a dump truck, if the engine or tranny dies and is beyond economic repair, you do not loose you dump truck capabilities, you simply find another cheap tow vehicle and you are back in business.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/dump_trailer.jpg)
Im with the rest 3/4 ton new or use , will do a lot of work, please buy american :) :)
Boy things are different over this side of the world, our Aussie dollar is on par with you guys but a Dodge Ram, 3500 Laramie landed here is $155,000 and a late model used Toyota Tundra dual cab sells for $120,000. We mainly use Toyota Landcruiser traybacks for heavy loads/towing, but they come at a price and have only had an 8 cylinder Turbo Diesel in the last 3yrs.
Busy Beaver that trailers the "Ducks Guts" :) I need something like that for around the farm and firewood carting.
Quote from: Peter Drouin on April 07, 2011, 09:37:11 PM
please buy american
Ironically, the Toyota Tundra is only 100% American made truck with 100% American made components. I own one, but if I were buying another truck, it would not be 100% American made. Probably would be a Ford F250. smiley_thumbsup
You guys have me pretty well convinced to buy used. I'm starting to keep my eyes open as I drive around and also am "cruising craigslist".
Buy American is at the top of my list as well, but as Magicman says, the Toyota is the only vehicle 100% American made.
As a friend says, that may be true, but the profits go back to Japan.
BBL - I think you may have the key here - patience until I find what I'm looking for. That is a nice looking truck and the dump trailer is something that would be a nice addition. I currently have a farm barge wagon that I pull around the timber and fill with wood, but it isn't highway transportable.
I do have a great mechanic that we have used for more than 30 years, so that is also a plus in buying used.
Thanks for all the ideas.
I buy American when I can. Chevy, Ford, Dodge are American trucks. If the companies use non- American parts, then it is their lie and not mine. I tried. I feel I did my part. I picked Wood-Mizer, an Amerian sawmill. I buy all my blades, parts, belts from them. Not because it is cheaper, but because I want them to stay in business. Other sawyers have picked other American made sawmills and I urge you all to buy parts from your sawmills manufacturer. Buying belts and parts at an auto store does not help the manufacturer who made your mill. Because there are a lot of good American made sawmills out there, support them. Happy sawing to all and God bless. Pete 8) 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: wesdor on April 06, 2011, 10:26:35 PM
Objectives for use of the truck. Haul firewood, haul lumber from the sawmill, tow a possible portable mill. In other words, not a lot of heavy duty use.
Wesdor,
If your mostly going to be using the truck for the above reasons then a great fit would be a 3/4 or 1 diesel pickup. I have a '99 F-350 with th 7.3 diesel and it is a heck of a work truck. I have the heavy duty springs in the rear with air bags as well, I've had my truck since '04 and have had no major issues with it. For doing some serious firewood hauling and putting logs in the back of the truck, as well as towing, this is a great truck for the job. HOWEVER, If you do this stuff on the side and it is not a regular occurance (I don't know if milling/firewood is your primary job or not?) then I would still look at the smaller size trucks your considering.
My truck is way too much work truck for what I do with it. I miss being able to drink a cup of coffee out of an open mug (for instance my new FF mug ;D) while driving down the road without 1,000lbs in the back to settle the ride.
If your looking for the truck as your daily driver and doing some firewood for your own personal use then you really don't need the heavy duty trucks and you might really welcome a newer, nicer ride. I am imagining that hauling wood isn't your primary job or you do it very often because you mentioned that you don't have a lot of heavy duty work to do.
Keep in mind though, I sure do like the heavy duty truck when plowing a foot of snow with a 9' blade and never spinning a tire, or towing a heavy tractor with a load of wood in the back.
I am in a very similar vehicle situation as you are. My wife drives a diesel jetta (best purchase we've ever made ;))and I have my f-350. If it weren't for towing my tractor to NH and back I would be buying a smaller truck, only because my back prefers the ride and I enjoy drinking my coffee while driving :D
A friend of mine went from an '02 F250 to a brand new f150 and the only regret is that he didn't do it sooner. He doesn't use it for heavy duty work though as that isn't the purpose of it.
Obviously the brand new HD trucks ride a whole lot better than my '99 so it's not a fair comparison, but those aren't in the price range you mentioned. I agree with used over new.
I'm all about 'bigger is better' in almost every aspect, mills, tractors, trucks, ATV's, boats, bank accounts etc. But every once in a while it's not always the case, only you can really know what and how much you'll use the truck for.
The "american" debate is, unfortunately, difficult to justify in today's world.
Keep us posted, we love spending other peoples money :D
Regardless, it's always fun to buy something new (even if it's old) so enjoy the hunt 8)
Quote from: Piston on April 09, 2011, 04:46:43 AM
Quote from: wesdor on April 06, 2011, 10:26:35 PM
Objectives for use of the truck. Haul firewood, haul lumber from the sawmill, tow a possible portable mill. In other words, not a lot of heavy duty use.
A friend of mine went from an '02 F250 to a brand new f150 and the only regret is that he didn't do it sooner. He doesn't use it for heavy duty work though as that isn't the purpose of it.
Obviously the brand new HD trucks ride a whole lot better than my '99 so it's not a fair comparison, but those aren't in the price range you mentioned. I agree with used over new.
I traded off my '03 F250 a Year ago on a 2010 F150.. I like the F150 for a DD, it hauls my tools and a 105 gal. fuel tank without a hitch, Awesomely smooth ride, and pulls great (4.6l V8) and i get about 21mpg.. I have my F350 for my heavy hauling but as a DD its slightly overkill, especially with fuel prices
$7000.00 for a 3/4 ton PU is not bad . Plus you got a rebuilt engine , good to go 100000 more miles without a hitch. Not bad one seventh the cost of a new 3/4T.
I do things rather slowly - think most purchases through every different way. The time to "pull the trigger" will probably be sometime late summer.
Piston - you bring up a good point. While I do list the uses, they would be more of a side job situation. A big part of my concern is that we are headed for massive inflation like we had in the 70's and getting something now is probably a good idea.
Although I can build a case for a 3/4 ton, it is probably more reasonable to look at the 1/2 ton. This will not be a daily driver - I have a 2000 Grand Am with 103,000 miles for that.
I'll keep everyone posted as I "crawl" toward a decision in July or August.
The best decision is always a "slept on" decision. Good luck with yours. smiley_thumbsup
I buy American when I can. Chevy, Ford, Dodge are American trucks.........
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It's been a long time since Dodge has been an American truck, it's a foreign company
my dad used to call dodge'' auto makers welfare. he dont do that anymore since we drive gm for the most part.
i think its hard to say one is or isnt ''made in the usa'' anymore. the auto makers now days seem to make them so that you cant work on them much unless you have 2 full sets of tools( sae and metric) and a whole plethera of specialty tools and computers. i guess i will keep my old 76 chev 3/4 ton 4x4 that must have 300k miles and is on its 4th motor. i can work on it. ;D pc
Quote from: paul case on April 12, 2011, 12:27:21 PM
i guess i will keep my old 76 chev ...... i can work on it. ;D pc
Well spoken.
From the viewpoint of someone who is involved in an auto repair business, of the three you listed, the Dodge is the best from a not showing up for stupid repairs point of view. Ford engineers have their heads where the sun doesn't shine, working on them is rediculous. Check out their new and improved spark plugs that are already a problem.
Chevys keep the shop open, just the same repairs over and over again. the shop must be on about the 5000th fuel pump. They need to put an acess panel in the box. The shop has replaced three Dodge pumps in 15 years.
toyota's break just like anything else, despite what some say, and when they do it is expensive. Parts are high, and they make things hard to work on. For example, the starter is under the intake manifold. you have to remove the intake and the fuel injection system just to get to the starter.
Dodges may not be perfect, but they are designed with ease of repair in mind, and that translates to less costly repairs. By and large they do seem to be the most reliable as far as our shop is concerned. I no longer work on cars, but I am at the shop every day to see my brother and see how things are going. The Hemi is capable of some very good mileage numbers if you can keep your foot out of it. I got just over 21mpg on a trip through the UP with my buddys driving with a lite foot. My buddy got 14 on the way home, same roads, but he drives like his butt is on fire. His truck.....
In 2008 I bought a new chevy, just a 4x4 work truck with a 5.3. It was back to the dealer six times in 43K miles for fairly large repairs. Rear diff, lifters[4-6-8 motor] fuel injectors, 2 computors, brakes three times. No Chevys for me!
I bought that truck when gas was $5.50 a gallon. They had huge rebates on full size trucks. I bought it new for $16,100, sold it for $16,000 two years and 43K later. You may want to wait till mid summer to see what gas does. If it goes over $5, there will be panic in the truck market again, and the rebates/incentives will be flying.
I am thinking about a Nissan Frontier for my runaround truck. The big Van I use for work is killing me as my jobs keep getting farther and farther away from home. Keep the van, and a little truck. On the other hand, maybe I will wait till gas goes up and see what I can get a 2wh Dodge Hemi for. Close to the same mileage when driven with care, and more power than you need when you need it?
Larry
PS: Used prices are so high right now as no one is buying new that I actually think that new is a better deal in most cases. Like you said you know what you have, and you get all of the best miles.
Your last comment is a good one, we are seeing that here in many cases. A late model low mileage lease return is too close the price of a new one to make it worthwhile.
Larry you did what I was going to suggest Wesdor to do, that is ask your mechanic what he would buy if he was looking for a truck for the described use, and then ask him why. If he has a good reason then use his advise for what it is worth.
I asked my mechanic the same thing a while ago for advise on a truck for work (some snow plowing and the odd load of junk or building materials), I gets little use, usually only around 2000 to 3000 miles a year. He really didn't have a answer on what to buy but lots of what he would not buy and gm was on the top of the do not list unless you were going to get rid of it before the warranty runs out. We are using a 95 f150 with a 300ci I6 it is nearing the end of it's life because of rust mostly, My mechanic suggested that if I spend $2000 on the old Ford it would outlast a new GM.
3/4 vs 1/2 ... my opinion 3/4 no contest the biggest reason would be safety (they have brakes that will stop the weight)
Diesel vs gas ... low miles per year = gas Lots of miles per year = diesel Your description of use sounds like gas would be a good fit for gas (just price injectors and injector pump for a diesel)
The question is how much firewood, how much lumber, and how heavy of a sawmill to tow. With the price of fuel, unless you have the need for heavy towing capabilities, I would scale down to one around an F 150 size and a smaller engine. If you will use it exclusively for hauling loads, then by all means go for the F250 size. If you use it a lot for general driving, go smaller. And yes, go used.
I went from a 4x4 diesel, to a 1/2 ton Chevy and had no problems. Springs were made to bend occasionally to my way of thinking.Then sold that POS and bought a Dodge van. For me, I thought about it and the few times a year I really loaded the diesel didn't justify the expense. It was fun, but the same truck, just a single cab stick, went up ten grand in 6 years. Calculators don't lie. I could not justify it.
Now I am thinking about a Nissan Frontier for my DD, and keep back my 3/4 ton van for big trailor loads. At what I am spending on gas in my current work locations, I could make the payment on a new Frontier just with the fuel savings. Frontier is made in USA, and the 4cyl engine is dependable as a rock.
I like the idea of something being made in the USA, but I also realize that those companys have no loyalty to me, so it is my own interests i should be thinking of. If they can not make the product I want, then the market will correct. Fords are too hard to work on/expensive, Chevys are absolute trash right now, and Dodge doesn't make anything that gets decent mileage.
If you decide to get a GM truck, make sure you DO NOT get one with the smaller V8 (4.8L V8). You will be horrified at the MPG's you get. That is one case where a smaller engine actually gets worse gas mileage than a larger one.
You may also want to look at a used Chevy HHR.
They get over 30 miles per gallon and have some storage benefits like a Van.
I don't know how they are pulling a load though.
hhr?
i just cant imagine a midget hearse pulling a sawmill. pc