Hello, I purchased a Central Boiler EClassic 2400 in October of 2010. Outside of some little issues, I now have what I think is a bigger problem. Over the last couple days, I noticed the stove did not want to go into the high burn stage and stay there. It would hit 800 to 850 degrees then come down to 650. It keeps doing this cycle, and will not go into the 1000+ degree stage. As I always do, I stirred the coals and made sure the coals were dropping down into the combustion chamber. Yesterday, I was sitting in the house and all of a sudden, there was a huge puff of smoke around the boiler. I ran out thinking something was wrong, but nothing obvious caught my eye. I opened the box that houses the solenoids, and everything is covered in a rust colored dust. Have any of you had a similar problem or can give me some ideas what to do. My dealer was not sure what the problem is.
I am going to try to attach some pictures of the box with the dust. I Uploaded pics to a album, but I am not sure if they are attached. I could email them I that would help you. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Your unit sounds plugged somewhere along the air flow intakes. So this could be:
1. Fan malfunction
2. Solenoid malfunction
3. Clogged airholes / solenoid
4. Reaction chamber / Chimney blockage
After checking the easy stuff, I would start the fire with the door open, checking the airflow from the airholes. the fan should kick on and you should see increased coal formation close to the airholes. You should be able to hear the inflow of air and the increasing blow-torch of gasification. If you don't, then the airholes are blocked or no air is getting to them because of fan or solenoid malfunction or blockage. You may have to pull a solenoid at the back - on the 2300's it's the upper left solenoid - to check for blockage.
The dust at the back probably occured from ignition of smoke, a sort of flame up, that occurs when the air can't flow through the firebox and down into the reaction chamber. this would increase the pressure within the firebox and send smoke retrograde - back toward the solenoids - creating this soot / dust coating.
I don't push coals down into the RC. the smoke is supposed to go there, not the coal bed.
Let us know how the investigation proceeds.
Pic
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26131/3524/IMG_4697a.jpg)
Thanks doctorb for looking at this. Here's what I know so far.
1. The fan seems to be turning fine and operating at normal speed
2. I can hear the solenoids open, first at 550 degrees I hear a click, and then at 750 degrees I hear another click. In the posted pic, both solenoids are open and temp showed to be about 875 degrees.
3. I thought about the clogged air holes also, but I used a wire with a small hook bent on the end about a week ago to clean the little holes out. Some stuff did come out, but it didn't seem excessive. That was the 3rd time I cleaned the air holes this winter since firing it up for the first time. Do you know of an easier way to clean them than using a wire. Central Boiler really dropped the ball in this area. You would think they would have designed removable panels where the holes are so you could just remove the panel, wipe it out and then put the panel back in.
4. I don't believe the reaction champer is blocked only because last Saturday, (3 days ago), I cleaned the ash out as I do weekly. I had unobstructed view from firebox into the reaction chamber. While cleaning, I also took the access door on the back off that allows you access to the channels coming up from the reaction chamber and pulled out all the ash that had built up at the bottom of the chimney (another area Central boiler dropped the ball on. They should have put an access door on each side that you could push or pull the ash straight through.). I then took the access cover off the "T" at the bottom of the chimney and pulled out the ash laying in there. Hope this additional info helps. Thanks again for the first reply
I scrape the airholes on my 2300 once a day. The best way to clean them is to start a hot, but small fire in the firebox and leave the firebox door open. push in the switch for the door with something to make the stove think the door is shut. The heat created in the coals near the air hole openings is great, and liquifies most stuff that could be traped in the air channels.
So my first inclination, given this info, is that you have an air channel blockage and the fire is air starved. Try burning a small fire with the door open. this is a good check of airflow and of gasification.
Listen to the Doctor. He knows how to fix people and EClassics. ;D Lots of posts on how to maintain and clean it.
Update: After 7 months of complaining about a faulty temperature readout on my boiler, last Friday I called the dealer and told them I was tired of being sent bits and pieces to fix the problem myself. I said it was under warranty and I wanted it fixed. By chance, they called me yesterday and said they were coming out to check the boiler. I figured they could look at the boiler for the above problem as well. They said my firebox looked exceptionally clean and the air holes did not appear to be plugged at all. We took my torch, one you would use for burning weeds etc, and heated up the inside of the firebox around the air holes hoping to melt down any creosote inside the air channels that might be plugging up the air flow. We did get some small flames which you could see through the air holes so obviously there was some buildup in there that didn't come out when I cleaned them with a wire. After heating the air holes and cleaning the creosote out of the solenoid tube, we put a shop vac hose up the the solenoid tube and blew air through. A big cloud of red dust filled the firebox. We put everything back together and I am anxious to see how it will burn. I didn't fire it back up yesterday because since I am using it right now to only heat my domestic hot water and the swimming pool, the pool was at 90 degrees so I just let the fire stay out. I'll keep you posted once I fire it back up. Thanks for the info. You were right on the money!
PS: My temp readout on the boiler which I showed was 10 degrees off on kick in and 15 degrees off of kickoff my be fixed also. They went into the menu and the Fire Star control panel lets them adjust the temp readout 10 degrees either way. Hopefully it is now a little closer!
Quote from: wayno12 on June 07, 2011, 09:08:25 AM
PS: My temp readout on the boiler which I showed was 10 degrees off on kick in and 15 degrees off of kickoff my be fixed also. They went into the menu and the Fire Star control panel lets them adjust the temp readout 10 degrees either way. Hopefully it is now a little closer!
This is certainly an interesting situation you have with the dust. The inside of my solonoid box has always been clean after two years of use. I noticed, from the photo, the dust is on the outside of the fan cage, hmmm. Keep us posted.
I would like to know more about the temperature readout calibration being changed in the menu. Did you happen to notice how they did this? I assume it was one of the "for factory only" menu options.
Dean, thanks for looking into this. I still don't think the problem as far as the airflow is fixed. I couldn't get stove to burn over 940 degrees when I was watching it this morning. I had a very nice bed of coals, some nicely chared chunks of wood, and some newly added pieces of very dry wood. I'm really baffled by this! Can someone tell me, am I supposed to keep all coals away from the slot in the bottom of the firebox? It sounds like I am, as doctorb said that slot is only for the smoke to escape it where it is then burned in the reaction chamber. I will try to take some pictures of the inside of my firebox tonight and post them. Can someone give me some suggestions on how you "mound" or shape you coal bed around the slot. I am 7 months into this and shouldn't be asking such stupid questions, but maybe there is a better way. Then again, maybe I am babysitting this thing too much!
Also Dean, I believe you are right on the temp setting as far as it being a factory setting. My temp still isn't "right", but it's closer than it was. Dealer told me if they replaced the control panel and sent mine back to Central Boiler and they found it to be 10 degrees or less off, that I'd be paying for the new one. I think it's close enough to work. I still say it was off minimum of 13 degrees when the dealer came over because his meat thermometer showed it was 3 degrees off after the adjustment and my thermometer showed 4. I hate to be a jerk and start splitting hairs.
I should mention, the dealer told me the "dust blowout" happened when a buildup of gas from the smoldering fire ignited and the pressure had to go somewhere. That was the path of least resistance. But I can't believe I am the only one who has had a buildup of gas in the stove. Wouldn't this be a natural, everyday occurance?
I often find myself, after two years of use, of asking newbie question on how to best operate the stove.
First: You are likely to get different answers from experienced gasification stove operatores about the coal bed and most likely all the answers are correct. One thing that we most likely would agree on is: the coal bed is an important part of how the stove performs.
Here are some of my thoughts on the coal bed and your reaction chamber temperature.
I see the reaction temperature fluctuate on our stove during the burn cycle and I relate it to the wood or possibly the air flow changing as wood drops down and burns away over the grate.
A reaction chamber temperature of 940 degrees is good IMO - so yes, stop baby setting it. ;) A reaction chamber temperature range for a good burn on our stove is between 900 and 1200 degrees and actually anything above 750 degrees is good. I do sometimes get readings between 1200 and 1500 degrees, but everything has to be just right, and I have yet to figure out exactly what caused it. ;D
I like to place large coals over the grate and seldoom keep it cleared. I do try to keep the ash from clogging the grate but not the coals. I often just refill the fire box when the wood is still covering the grate and pay no attention to the grate if it has been burning well.
Dean
Quote from: wayno12 on June 09, 2011, 11:48:27 AM
I should mention, the dealer told me the "dust blowout" happened when a buildup of gas from the smoldering fire ignited and the pressure had to go somewhere. That was the path of least resistance. But I can't believe I am the only one who has had a buildup of gas in the stove. Wouldn't this be a natural, everyday occurance?
That certainly makes sense, but I have not seen it on our stove. It would sound like the grate must have been really plugged up. I have seen it build up enough that I would hear a sound and a big puff would come out the stove pipe, but never back into my pressurized soloniod box.
You make some really good points. Do you ever take the larger coals out and clean out the fine ash from the bottom of the firebox or just rake the ash to the center so it falls down through the slot in the bottom? I cleaned my fine ash out about 2 times per month. then dumped the larger coals back in. I notice that where I spinkle the Ashtrol on the inside of the firebox, the creosote turns a reddish brown, almost the color of the red dust in the picture. I wonder if that could be contributing to the issue. Do think sprinkling Ashtrol lightly into the air holes periodically could help eliminate any plugging up?
I think - maybe - that you're overworking this thing a bit. I do not clean out the ash dust every 2 weeks, maybe every 4 weeks. The problem is not the dust, it's that with a thick dust bed the coal bed covers the airt channels and the decreased air flow affects burn performance.
I have never, ever tried to keep the coals off the crescent opening. I noted in your photo that you do not have the metal bars across the opening to help support the coal bed. Does the 2400 not use these? Having the heat (coals) as close to the reaction chamber is the best way to have the smoke get combusted there as more air is forced in. Keeping the coals away from the opening is very counterproductive, IMO.
You are correct, there are no bars on the bottom in the form of a grate. I always figured I was over-maintaining this thing, which doesn't bother me since it is only a matter of a few minutes. However, that brings me back to square one, why am I getting plugged up to the point it is blowing out the solenoids. It doesn't make sense. I do just as we are talking about. I rake the ash/coals with the poker from CB, then I use the poker to make sure the slot at the bottom of the firebox going to the combustion chamber is completely open, leaving the coals/ash mounded right up to the slot without covering it, then I stack my new wood on top of the coals. I think the blowout from gas ignition makes the most sense, but why doesn't it happen more often as this should be a common thing. Just wondering?! You can tell from the picture I attached, something isn't working quite like it should.
I don't know much about the operation of the furnace is it possible that one of the solenoid is open when it should be closed. In the picture that you posted all of them appear to be open at the same time.
Is the fan operation in the right direction?
Ron
You are very observant Ron. When the stove is in high burn mode, all of the solenoids would be open. So, I would assume that is when wayno12 opened the door and took the photo.
Wayno12, I assumed from the earlier posts that the pressure was created by the fan and there was blockage in the normal exhaust. That much pressure, from just the fan, is still hard to envision. However, are you saying, or could the pressure have been created by your auto gas relight. Gas builds up while the relight was a little slow in getting the flame lite? This would certainly cause the pressures we are seeing from the photo.
Dean,
Are you thinking the gas built up in the chamber and when it lite it caused a kind of mini explosion causing the dust to be push back into the area with the solenoids?
Ron
Quote from: ronwood on June 10, 2011, 10:10:30 AM
Dean,
Are you thinking the gas built up in the chamber and when it lite it caused a kind of mini explosion causing the dust to be push back into the area with the solenoids?
Ron
Yes, that is exactly what I am thinking. There had to be a lot of pressure to break up that much dust and send it back against the pressure of the fan.
I completely agree.
Could there be an issue with temp readings effecting the gas ignition and maybe that is contributing to the problem?
This may be a stupid question but have you checked for a blockage in your chimney?
Hi all, and thanks for all the responses. Sorry I haven't responded, I've been gone and then catching up over the last coupled days. OK, now to bring everything up to speed. In regards to the solenoids both being open, at the time of the picture, the burn temp was at 851 degrees, so yes, both were open. Now, to explain how I "think" I have fixed the problem. Saturday morning I got up and the fire had pretty much burned out and the firebox starting to cool down (160 degrees), so I thought good, I'll poke around the air holes. After running a wire in and out of the air holes, it seemed like I wasn't getting anywhere as small amounts of stuff kept falling out. So, I resorted to another means. I went and pulled out a small snake for cleaning clogged drains and my shop vac. This worked a little bit, but I could tell I wasn't getting everything cleaned out of the air channels. Then I discovered a big contributing factor to the problem. on the sides of the firebox, the air holes are drilled about 1" to 1 1/4" above the bottom of the channel that the air flows through. The crud that was built up in these channels was every bit that deep too. So, back to the garage I go and I hauled out my air compressor and and air nozzel with a small tube on the end that would easily go into the air hole of the boiler. My first blast of air sent a cloud of red dust past me and probably 10 feet out the door of the stove. If I had to do it over again, I'd have video taped what I was doing. So, to make a long story short, over the course of the next 2 hours, I would stick the air nozzle in one hole and blast it, then go to the on the opposite end of the side I was working on and blast the air the other way, then do it over again. By working back and forth like this, it kept forcing this crud out the air holes a little at a time. I have pictures of the stuff that came out of these holes when I got done doing this. I don't have the pictures with me right now. I will try to post them tomorrow. When all was said and done, I took out at least 2 quarts of this red, dusty, crystalized crap from just the air channels alone. Word of advice, if you have one of these stoves and you haven't cleaned out these channels the way I'm talking about, you'd better do it. You're in for one heck of a surprise at what will come out. I think the side channels had plugged up and cut off the air supply to the air holes in the plate beneath the door opening. When I was done, air was flowing out of all the air holes in the stove. So, when I was done, I put all my coals that I had sifted out of the ash when I started back into the firebox. After that, I put about 10 pieces of wood in and fired it up using my high pressure torch. It took only about 15 minutes and I was reading 1100+ degrees on the panel. Central boiler has some serious engineering to do to correct this problem and figure out a more efficient way to clean these air channels out. This current design majorly sucks! I love the stove, have no complaints about the way it heated my house all winter and am satisfied with my wood comsumption in doing so, but something as poorly designed as this, requiring the lengths I went through to clean it is just plain ridiculous! I will be making a phone call to them this morning. I would love to hear some responses from some of you if you check out your stoves to let me know the condition of your air channels. Again, I'll post the pictures tomorrow.
Dean186, I just wanted to reply to your post, because you have a good point. Gas auto-relight would seem like it could have caused this, but I do not have that feature on my stove. Thanks for the idea though!
jchartrand, checked chimney when I started, and it was spotless. I should have mentioned this earlier. My apologies.
I pulled my solenoid and cleaned my air channels at the end of this season. Coat hanger and shop vac for me. I got some of the same red dust you describe out. I worked on my air channels regularly during the heating season, and did not notice the air blockages you describe. As I have written previously, with a low fire, I leave the door open (Put a stick on the switch to get the fans going) and watch the flow in the air holes. this is where the coal can be seen to glow very brightly. At the same time, you can hear the increasing roar of gasification. When the air holes demonstrate this flow, and the smoke is gasifying, its time to load the furnace and get warm.
That's my routine and I hope that it has prevented the major maitenance you described. As a question.....did you work on your air holes during the season or basically leave them to fend for themselves, thus requiring the efforts of the past months?
Doctorb, this last weekend was the 4th time I cleaned the airholes since firing up the stove in October 2010. Granted, the previous 3 cleanings consisted of a wire with a hook bent on the end that I used to pull the debris towards the holes. I had no idea that I should have gone to the lengths I did this weekend. I assumed the engineers would have been smart enough to put the air holes at he bottom of the channel where the debris could be easiy removed rather than 1"+ above the bottom which makes it impossible to remove anything below the hole. Just out of curiosity, do you also have the E Classic 2400, or an earlier model. I was wondering if maybe they changed designs. Can you check your channels the next time you clean it and see where your holes are located in reference to the bottom of the channel and whether there is more debris in the channels than you are actually pulling out with your wire and shop vac. Saturday, the wire and shop vac was my 2 method of cleaning, and that didn't come close to getting out what was actually in there.
I have a 2300 and have used it for 2 full winters.
The air hole location is where you descibe it. The location is a double edged sword. By placing the air hole above the bottom of the chamber, it takes quite a bit to fully block the passage of air. If they placed it at the bottom of the air chamber, the air flow could be blocked by a smaller amount of creosote and material.
I am not sure that the dust you descibe is fully the culprit. That stuff is moved pretty easily, in my experience. It's when the gases leave a creosote build-up in the passages that I see a problem with air flow. When I am heating up the stove in the method I previously described, I sometimes see a black goo oozing out of the air hole passages and back into the firebox, where it is ignited and combusted. The first time I saw it, it scared me. Now I know that the stove is "cleaning itself" when that occurs and I am glad to see it, as the air flow seems to improve out of that airhole after it happens.
I don't think that airflow has to be perfect out of each hole either. It's a matter of getting enough air into the firebox to stimulate a good hot coal bed. Glad to hear that your efficiency has improved.
Very well stated. I'm not seeing any of the black creosote running out, even when heating with a torch. This really makes me wonder if the type of wood or different combustion qualities, affected by moisture content etc. might be affecting the cleanliness of the burn. I'm going to pay a little better attention to this and see if I can figure out what may be the contributing factor.
By the way doctorb, that is one sweet fish in your picture!
Picture 1 here shows what I got out of the holes after about 30 minutes of poking and prodding with a wire.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26131/3524/IMG_4699%7E0.JPG)
This second picture shows what is coming out with the air hose method of cleaning. What you see laying in the bottom of the stove is only a fraction of what has come out. This picture was taken at the very end of the process after the dust has cleared. I scrapped 3 prior loads of this stuff down into the slot in the bottom of the stove so I could take it out with the ash when I am done. There was at least 1 1/2 quarts of this stuff removed from the air channels! And I thought I was being diligent throughout the winter heating season by keeping the holes clean with a wire.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/26131/3524/IMG_4708%7E0.JPG)
Quote from: doctorb on June 13, 2011, 02:53:24 PM
I don't think that airflow has to be perfect out of each hole either. It's a matter of getting enough air into the firebox to stimulate a good hot coal bed. Glad to hear that your efficiency has improved.
I would agree with that. The air slots to the far rear of my stove and the far most front air slots plug early in the heating season and pretty much remain plugged until spring clean out.
The firebox photos you posted are my first look inside the 2400 firebox. Interesting, thanks for posting them.
Below is a photo of the inside of the firebox of our E-classic 1400 prior to using it. The view shows the air channels inside the fire box of the E-Classic 1400. There are air slots on the side instead of holes and the slots extend all the way to the bottom of the main air channel. It looks like the bottom row, on the sides of your fire box, are also slots. I suppose the idea is for creosote to run out the bottom of the slot and the top remains open. It does seem to work pretty well on our stove.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20112/Outdoor_Wood_Furnace_Fire_Box_Slots%7E0.jpg)
I may try your air compressor method of cleaning and see what happens. I will post results.
Dean186, I was happy to read the picture was of your firebox new. I was thinking you whitewashed it for your spring cleaning, making the rest of us look bad. Just to note, in my firebox, there is a square tube that projects from the square hole you see in the rear of my firebox at the bottom and it extends to just in front of the slot going down into the combustion chamber. I took it out in order to make cleaning a little easier. On the bottom side of this square tubing is two rows of holes consisting of probably 20-30 holes.
Also, Dean186, I was just taking a really close look at the picture you posted. On the sides of your firebox, judging by the welds, it looks like your air slots are oblong and extend down to the bottom of your air channel. This is what I was saying they should have designed mine like. If you look at my picture, you will see my upper holes are much higher than the weld "bottom" of my air channel. This is were all the debris is collecting. From the looks of your pictures, you should not have that problem as you can clean out along the bottom. However, I see a problem with the holes on the back of your stove. My stove has holes along the bottom which definitely aided in the cleaning, but yours has none in the whole center of the rear along the bottom. To me, this looks like a perfect place for debris to accumulate. I'll look forward to the air compressor results if you get a chance to do it.
One final post to bring everything up to speed. This morning, I was standing next to my stove waiting on our new puppy to do it's business, when all of a sudden, there was a huge "woof" behind me and an a huge cloud of smoke rolled out of the back of the stove and chimney. The blower on the stove was not running at the time, my water temperature was at 187 degrees (my stove is set for 195 degree shut off), and the firebox temperature was at 435 degrees. This was obviously a buildup of pressure within the stove, and I'm thinking it happens alot more often than any of us realized. This is the second time I have witnessed this occurance since I started posting here. My air channels are perfectly clean, because I just cleaned it with the air compressor 4 days ago. My ash bed was not plugging the slot going down into the combustion chamber , because immediately after the blowback, I opened the door and though there was a very nice bed of coals, it was not compressed or blocking the outlet when I stirred them. It wasn't an ignition of flamable gas buildup within the stove when oxygen was introduced, because the stove was not running at the time, hence coals were not being stoked. I think if I had the time to watch this stove round the clock, I might see this much more often than you think. I can see now, with the amount of pressure that was released, why debris is being forced into these air holes. When this "explosion" took place, it just about brought me right out of my shorts. I *DanG near hit the ground, and this is not meant to be a joke. It was powerful enough to rattle the doors on the back of the stove. Having such a close up encounter when this took place definitely gave me a lot more information to work with. I'd be interested in knowing who else is experiencing this, or any additional feedback on it.
Quotean a huge cloud of smoke rolled out of the back of the stove and chimney.
If the smoke could come out these two places, then seems there was chance for air (oxygen) to get in and set off the combustion gases.
Quote from: wayno12 on June 15, 2011, 10:27:09 AM
Also, Dean186, I was just taking a really close look at the picture you posted. On the sides of your firebox, judging by the welds, it looks like your air slots are oblong and extend down to the bottom of your air channel. This is what I was saying they should have designed mine like. If you look at my picture, you will see my upper holes are much higher than the weld "bottom" of my air channel. This is were all the debris is collecting. From the looks of your pictures, you should not have that problem as you can clean out along the bottom. However, I see a problem with the holes on the back of your stove. My stove has holes along the bottom which definitely aided in the cleaning, but yours has none in the whole center of the rear along the bottom. To me, this looks like a perfect place for debris to accumulate. I'll look forward to the air compressor results if you get a chance to do it.
Wayno12, I would agree with you about the slots extending to the bottom of the air channel. Since the design and build of the 1400 came before the 2400 I am surprised that the 2400 slots don't extend to the bottom of the air channel. Your observation about the air holes at the back of my stove makes sense. In practice though, I don't seem to get creosote build up in the holes at the back, but just along the sides and the creosote runs out the bottom of the slot pretty much as designed.
The square tube extending into the box from the rear of the E-Classic 2400 makes this design completely different from the other E-Classics. This design may be the contributing factor in the improved efficiency of the 2400. I need to see one in person.
Quote from: wayno12 on June 15, 2011, 10:46:05 AM
One final post to bring everything up to speed. This morning, I was standing next to my stove waiting on our new puppy to do it's business, when all of a sudden, there was a huge "woof" behind me and an a huge cloud of smoke rolled out of the back of the stove and chimney. The blower on the stove was not running at the time, my water temperature was at 187 degrees (my stove is set for 195 degree shut off), and the firebox temperature was at 435 degrees. This was obviously a buildup of pressure within the stove, and I'm thinking it happens alot more often than any of us realized. This is the second time I have witnessed this occurance since I started posting here. My air channels are perfectly clean, because I just cleaned it with the air compressor 4 days ago. My ash bed was not plugging the slot going down into the combustion chamber , because immediately after the blowback, I opened the door and though there was a very nice bed of coals, it was not compressed or blocking the outlet when I stirred them. It wasn't an ignition of flamable gas buildup within the stove when oxygen was introduced, because the stove was not running at the time, hence coals were not being stoked. I think if I had the time to watch this stove round the clock, I might see this much more often than you think. I can see now, with the amount of pressure that was released, why debris is being forced into these air holes. When this "explosion" took place, it just about brought me right out of my shorts. I *DanG near hit the ground, and this is not meant to be a joke. It was powerful enough to rattle the doors on the back of the stove. Having such a close up encounter when this took place definitely gave me a lot more information to work with. I'd be interested in knowing who else is experiencing this, or any additional feedback on it.
Wayno, I am very puzzled. I mean; what business is a new born puppy involved? :-\
Seriously, I have never had that situation with my stove and I can understand how it would be concerning. Wouldn't it be nice to have a factory representative from Central Boiler on this forum, if to saying nothing more than - that is normal for that stove and it doesn't hurt anything and it won't get worse. Or better yet, change out this do-hickey for this thing-a-ma-gig and no more explosions.
I will keep following this post.
I am shocked that Central Boiler doesn't offer more input on this. I should have mentioned earlier, today when the "big bang" took place, the smoke cloud was white like you'd expect. The origional incident I witness was completely red colored. So, I guess this at least tells me I removed all the red rusty colored debris from the air channels.
Quote from: beenthere on June 15, 2011, 10:59:31 AM
Quotean a huge cloud of smoke rolled out of the back of the stove and chimney.
If the smoke could come out these two places, then seems there was chance for air (oxygen) to get in and set off the combustion gases.
This would seem true, but then, the solenoids should be completely shut when stove is not running, and air would have to travel down the chimney through the tubes, into the combustion chamber, and then enter from under the coals. Now you have me wondering, are my solenoids closing completely each and every time the stove shuts down. You may have stumbled onto something. If one or both solenoids stuck open, I could see the stove drawing oxygen in until all of a sudden, ignition. Now you have given me something else to keep an eye on. Thanks for the input! There is a reason this is taking place, it just needs to be found.
I too have a CB EClassic 2400 that went online 1/8/11. I have been pleased with the performance of it, for the most part, but thought it would be much simpler to maintain. The dealer makes it out like you have to clean it often to the point of eating out of it. The area with the air vents and blower fan in the back online is completely black as well. Not sure when last heating season that happened but it is a mess. Still works okay. Dealer tried to state that I let my coal bed get too high. If I didn't keep some coals in it, the fire would go out. I have burned wood most of my life with a woodstove and bought an outdoor wood furnace because I thought it would be better. It is more efficient and keeps the mess outside but it seems it requires much more involvement than I had expected.
The heat tube bend on mind, and the fire bricks in the reaction chamber cracked as well as the air holes. Dealer provided a new air tube at no charge but made me put it in. I am burning hardwood only and trying to use as dry as wood as possible. Just fired it up a few days ago and am finding that without any heat load (only using it for domestic HW) that it builds up a lot of creosote and I am considering letting it go out until colder weather in NH arrives.
Link
I recall a previous thread on the topic of summer use of OWB's for domestic hot water (DHW) only:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,41487.0.html.
My recollection is that it's pretty tricky between having the fire go out and intervals of refueling the stove. It may answer some of your questions. I have not used my 2300 for DHW only in the summer. It does gall me to heat my hot water with oil for 6 months out of the year. It's the only oil I use! As I am installing a solar electric system, I will probably switch to electric hot water in the warmer months.
Oh! Welcome to the FF!
Sounds like you are making this too hard. I also have the EClassic 2400 model with none of these issues. I believe controlling coal bed depth is very important as Dean stated. I try to keep coal bed about 1-3 inches over the air charge tube. Every time before I reload, I run the rod through the coals and up and down boths sides of the air charge tube and scrape over the side air holes with my hoe, nocking of any goo or scale. I get best gasification and highest reaction chamber temps with coal bed at this level. Highest readings usually seen after new load has been in for more than 8 hours. Under light heat load, I set the Firestar pulse to blow air for 50 seconds every 15 minutes, if wood is not real dry, every 12 minutes. It never goes out. I've never had the gas build up ignition discussed either...The decal by the door says to open the bypass for a minimum of 15 seconds before opening door and not closing the bypass for a minimum of 15 seconds after closing the door after loading, which I always do. Are you doing this?
Quote from: doctorb on September 02, 2011, 09:08:31 AM
As I am installing a solar electric system, I will probably switch to electric hot water in the warmer months.
Doc,
Take a look at the PV systems that make electricity off the front and hot water off the back. A buddy of mine just got his certification in solar. Let me see if I can get some info.
Bruce
I have e-classic model 2300, this will be the fourth winter of operation. It cant be stressed enough that the air holes must be kept clean. I have spent many hours cleaning the back air chamber with air compressor and shop vac.This winter I will plug the back four air holes, this is the reason why. Most of the heating season the back holes become plugged even with constant cleaning program. The rear air chamber becomes full of creosote blocking any air flow in the rear holes. What I found was that my furnace worked fine with the air holes blocked, getting enough air from properly cleaned air holes along the sides of the firebox. By covering the rear holes I will reduce/ eliminate filling the rear air chamber with ash and creosote and reduce possible air flow restrictions. Sorry for the lengthy explanation, just trying to help. Stratford 50
Bruce-
Appreciate any info on solar hot water. I am not sure it's applicable to my situation, though, as the panels will be on my barm roof which is about 250 feet from my home. If me are going to discuss solar further, lets switch this to the Alternative Methods thread. Let me know and thanks in advance.
whfh99, I agree with you 100%! I was raised in a home with a indoor wood stove, and when I built my own house after moving out, I have heated with an indoor wood stove for the last 15 years until installing this OWB. I am by no means a newbie to what is required to maintain a good clean operationg wood stove. My wife laughs at me every time I get done cleaning the stove because I am so dirty. I just remind her I took the stove out of the house to make her happier. I was never, and I repeat, never near as dirty cleaning my chimney or dumping the ashes from the indoor wood stove as I am with messing with the OWB. Don't get me wrong, it works fantastic when it is working fine. It heated my 30' round above ground pool this spring and fall woderfully! It cost me about 3/4 face cord of wood per week this spring and fall to keep the water in my between 87 and 90 degrees. We were literally swimming at 11:00pm when the outside temp was 50 degrees and the water was almost 90 degrees. The stove does it's job and then some, it is just ALOT of work and it is also more work than I had expected. To all of you who keep echoing that we are over-maintaining our stoves, I totally disagree with you. I am doing only what my stove is requiring me to do, nothing more. If you thing I enjoy going out and getting covered in ash from head to waist and smell like I just crawled out of a smoker, your mistaken. Like I said, I have been around wood heat for nearly 40 years, and I know how to read a good clean operating stove. This OWB just happens to require a lot more tending to than was every suggested by my dealer.
Ron and Dean, when I snapped that picture, it was when the stove was operating normally. The solenoids were supposed to be open at the time of the picture. There was one time I was outside near the boiler and it was not running at all as the water was up to temp. All of a sudden, it sounded like a literal mini explosion, and a big plum of smoke came out the back of the stove and chimney. Hence, it did not happen against the pressure of the fan. The fan was not running at the time.