one of my jerk wad neighbors called to complain about me milling saying that the noise is "ruining their quality of life". the complaint was anonymous but i know who it is. he has been convicted of 3rd degree assault against me, trespass on my friends place, has admitted to stealing everything from the neighbors woodstove (out of the house), to a gate, a fencer, and a canoe. i have tried to get him busted for trespassing a few times on my property and the sheriffs department refused. he is a real degenerate loser.
the nearest house to me is about 300 yards from the mill, his house probably more like 500 yds. there is heavy brush and a road between the mill and the houses. i try not to start any machines before 7:am, and shut down before 5:pm and not run on weekends unless i really have to. i think in the last 8 years i have put only about 600 hours on my mill at home, and maybe 250 hours on my edger, the rest is offsite.
the county code enforcement guy called and said they had a complaint. so far he is not being a jerk, but did say that a sawmill is NOT allowed with my residential zoning, and also commercial firewood processing is not allowed either. he wants to come up the next time i mill and listen from the road to determine if "their quality of life is adversely affected".
i live about 12 miles off the highway on 35 acres. everyone in the area runs a business out of their home, or has an illegal (no permit) building or remodel, or has some kind of violation. i put the word out in the neighborhood a few years ago that if i got shut down, everyone else would get looked at too. if i get shut down, it will shut off about 70% of my yearly income. property around here is VERY expensive, and the only parcels that i could maybe afford are zoned residential. i guess it is time to put together a list of everyone's illegal home add-ons, illegal buildings, businesses being run out of the home, rental units that are not up to code, and find some other way to make money.
sorry to hear about your deal :( i don't know co. law but in wisconsin you need to aleast have a conditional use permit, with only having residential zoning they might have you.
personally i wouldn't stir the pot by turning everyone else in. life is much easier having friends than enemies ;D
I don't think that person is much of a friend!! >:(
Try to stay upbeat. Consider applying for a variance and getting any of your neighbors and some of your customers to come and speak for you about why what you are doing is good and not offensive. Be patient with the zoning official, sounds like he's remaining open by coming to listen for himself. Maybe look to compare and remind about other variances that have been approved or not enforced rather than what others shouldn't be doing. Are there any noise abatements you could implement, better mufflers, fence, taking it inside? Not that I'd be any good at this. You're in trying times. Being able to saw is worth a great deal. Hang in there!!! ;)
You don't want to be a jerk wad neighbor by copying one.
I vote for a bigger muffler before the inspector arrives. good luck.
I think you said you had been there 8 years, or had the mill 8 years. There may be a time limit for complaints as far as when you started running the mill and the time of the complaint.
i doubt your sawmill is any louder than some lawnmowers or diesel pickups. they have those in colorado, dont they?
1.sounds like you have a good in with the inspector and you should work that in your favor. he may be able to help you get ''legal'' or at least find an exclusion that woiuld allow you to continue to operate.
my second thought is it is a free country right?
give your neighbor that is obviously a little up tight a gift of the nicest ear muff sound reducers you can find, anonomously of course.
my third thought.
put up a sign. please use ear protection near here. we might be doing something that is loud.
probably wont help. may provide comic relief though. there is not many cures for too much goverment.
pc
what about converting to an electric motor for the mill? if you don't have three phase power you could run a rotary phase converter...
Is there a noise ordinance in your county? I would find out, and if there is not, tell them to kiss off.
We get the Sherriff called for setting off Tannerite all the time, but since there is no noise ordinance in the county, there is not much they could do except tell us to have fun.
Also sounds like you might want to look into a restraining order for this neighbor, since he has done something to you in the past and is still Tresspassing.
Ratting out the Other neighbors would not be a good Idea. It would not help anyone, and would make you look like the looser.
Sounds like your in an urbanized area. So everyone has to respect one another. It's a whole lot easier to find solutions and get along.
Quote1.sounds like you have a good in with the inspector and you should work that in your favor. he may be able to help you get ''legal'' or at least find an exclusion that woiuld allow you to continue to operate.
Paul has a good idea. If that doesn't work find all your neighbors with business's and go to the zoning commission together. That's why their there. If that doesn't work check the zoning regulations & escalate to the next level of government, probably the local town council.
Good luck,
jim
Zoning has the sole purpose of putting people in positions that others can put their thumbs down on them. Zoning takes away freedoms. You have 35 acres and can't have a sawmill on it. That sounds ridiculous. How humiliating to have to go to someone and ask permission to run a sawmill on your own land. If you are smacked down, you might talk to all your ordinance breaking neighbors and start a revolt against all the silly rules that keep people from living their life.
They tried to get zoning in our county a number of years ago. The promoters quit trying. Newpaper said the reason was that there were too many death threats.
I wish you good luck. Put all your charm and persuasive skills to work with the enforcement dude. As mentioned, a good muffler could do the trick.
My vote is for a better muffler. Be kind to the rest of you neighbors. Get a db meter like from Radio Shack. http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=sound%20meter&origkw=sound%20meter&sr=1 Take sound level measurements before and after the muffler swap. Measure @ 10', chest height facing the exhaust discharge. Take measurements @ 100' for comparison for when the inspector shows up. Then a couple like a riding lawnmower or tractor and bush hog. Of course there is nothing I know of to dampen the blade noise. Good luck.
First thing I'd do is to make sure I'm in the right.
Even though residential, there has to be a noise level that's allowed.
I really find it hard to believe that being 500 yards away, that your noise would bother anyone!
EXAMPLE: I complained about a neighbors loud music at 11:30 one night and when the deputy called me back to let me know that he had taken care of it, he said the neighbor has a complaint that I've been shooting my guns within 500 feet of his house. I haven't, our houses are exactly 516 feet apart and I shoot in my back yard and the neighbor is across the road!
Like I said, cover yourself first!
Good Luck.
Good ideas. If you get along with some of your other immediate neighbors, see if they will go to bat for you. I don't know what you have for a political structure, but if you have any kind of relationship (positive) with a county commisioner, you might give him a call. Point out the income generated and services provided by your business. Income means taxes generated for the county plus dollars spent at businesses in town.
And if all else fails, ask yourself the all important question: What would the Godfather do?
I totally agree about the don't stir the pot idea:) When it comes to this kind of situation it is always about the neighbors. They are the ones who will make trouble for you with the town, in your case it is about zoning. What you need to do is make friends with the town supervisors and county officials, and be able to show them that your sawing and firewood operations are not commercial and just something your are doing as a hobby. It has nothing to do with how quite your muffler is, it sounds like it is to late for that, and as the county official pointed out it is about zoning, not noise. They can not stop you from having and using a sawmill on your property for your own use, but if your milling lumber for sale that is a different story. Zoning laws can work for you of against you keep that in mind. I am about in the same situation as you with the property my sawmill is located on. I make it a point to get along with all the neighbors. It makes my and their life easier! :D I've already had a couple go arounds with the town officials from the township my mill and farm is located at. I built a barn so I could put a water system in and keep it from freezing so I could move my livestock out there and the assessor promptly took out 2 acres and zoned it residential, increased my taxes and made me pay a fine for converting the land. I went to the board of review to contest it and the assessor had a pic of my barn ( which they got from coming on my property without my knowledge)(Not that that really matters because most assessors now a days can just get on google earth and see EXACTLY what your doing with your property without being there!!!) and the town chairman said "you could live in that!", and I was not able to PROVE that it was for agricultural use. So I just let it go and determined to use it to my advantage. Now I can use it for anything I want not just farm purposes at least. In a nutshell, your situation is simply this: if you can't operate under the radar and get along the neighbors, you have two options. One is show that your sawmill and firewood operations are not feasible "profit' making businesses. I am certain that there are no restrictions against sawing all the lumber and making all the firewood you want on your property,,, but do it for profit that is a different story. The other option is to do what is required to have a business on your property. Find out what is legally required and if it is really that difficult. Or move :D, I am particularly interested in this thread because I am looking at buying 40 acres a bit south of you down by Trinidad. I like to live out in the sticks and not have anyone bother me. When looking at this property my 1st question is: what are the township officials like? Who are the neighbors? The neighbors will always be the ones to give your trouble... or make your life wonderful. If you are unsure about the neighbors at least be sure to have the law on your side. Turning in others that don't comply with the law will get you no where...........
I had a similiar problem breifly! I'm on the back side of a subdivision with a home owner assoc. They complained and the law showd up! In virginia we have residential zoining and agricultural zoining. Here agricultural zoining doesn't have any noise restrictions. So I politely informed the police and let him know the only option they had was to move and that should let them know the next time I got a complaint that I'd turn the muffler to the the deitrot 3-71 in their direction and only run it in the middle of the night and early on the weekends! I haven't had any problems since! Check out your zoning laws, (35 acres) you should have some rights. Then if you need to rezone, so be it! Let them know you are cutting material for your (personal) use! Not a buisness! That could be a hang up! Then, I don't see how they can shut you down!
One thought
noise, volume, is a measurable thing, just like the length of a log. There is legal precedent and decibel limits set for any area with a noise ordinance.
borrow or buy a decibel meeter. You may be able to get a local sound man for a local band or club to come out and take noise readings while you are running your mill.
Before you make any move know the FACTS. Just how loud is it? and how does it compare with other things that make noise in the area. At this point their complaint is all hearsay with no fact.
Be the first one to present fact and compromise to the county official and you just may come out on top.
Just a thought.
there is NO dealing with these neighbors. the one that complained has been convicted of several offenses, and he continues to be a problem. the fact is a sawmill is NOT allowed in my zoning so i am screwed at some point. the noise is just their way of getting the county to come look around. i know it is antagonistic to turn the neighbors in for their illegal stuff, but if i am shut down milling i have nothing to lose. everything i do here is legal except the wood processing. i have been on this property for 21 years and been milling for over 8.
i get logs from the county fire mitigation jobs, so that guy likes me, but he knows that what i am doing is not legal. now and then he mentions something to the effect of i cant do what i do. but it benefits him, the county, and the state in general. we have major amounts of wood to get rid of with the pine beetle and though i am a small operation, i still go through about 7 to 10 loads of logs per year. and i am trying to increase that.
to give you guys an idea of what i am dealing with, last night i went out on a ride on my motorcycle. i took my coyote rifle because i thought i might go up to the national forest. on my way i realized that i was on reserve so i couldnt go far. then i saw a new realtor sign and figured i would go check it out to see whose property was for sale. i got to the end of the road and saw whose place it was and turned around without stopping. later that evening i get a call from the sheriff, he says someone complained that i pointed a rifle at him. the guy is the best friend of the neighbor that called about the noise. i never stopped my bike, never got off my bike, and never pointed my rifle at anything, i carry it across my back and never even unslung it. but while riding down the hill i heard 2 shots from the guys house that called about the noise. i dont know what he was shooting at, but it was intended to say something to me. he never shoots any other time.
getting a special use permit is impossible. i would have to notify every neighbor in writing about a request for the variance, they have 30 days to comment, then there is a hearing with the county commissioners who listen to all complaints and letters and make a decision. the people i caretake for spend about $100,000 to get a variance to build a house last winter. the county said the road wasnt wide enough, that you cant have more than 4 houses on a dead end road, and some other minor issues. they hired attorneys and plead their case for months before finally being granted a building permit. the county people are not so interested in people doing what they want, but more interested in creating more rules.
my place is a half mile off the county road, and 7 miles to the nearest paved road, and about 17 miles from town. there are only about 11 other neighbors, 2 i am friendly with, another i caretake for, and 2 others dont bother me and i dont bother them.
the neighbor that i caretake for has 640 acres that is NOT zoned residential. there i can do just about anything. i told the county guy that if i have to stop milling on my property that i will set up there and run all my machines from first light to dark, weekends and holidays and be quite a bit more offensive. there are NO trees in that spot and it backs right up to one guys house. i dont want to move there, and not sure the owners would let me, and if my machines were there they would be totally visible and become bullet magnets from the county road.
i dont want to spent a bunch of time an money building a saw shed only to be told a week later that i still cant mill. i am thinking that i might stick some shipping containers on the neighbor side and then stack lumber 5 or 6 feet tall on top of that. it would help noise a little bit, but look like hell.
Work with the inspector and the "Good" neighbors. Check and see what the zoning code was when you moved in and when you started sawing. Not memory, the exact regs including effective dates. Get copies. If you have to consult a lawyer it will be cheaper for you to already have them in hand instead of paying his clerk to get the copies. Initial consultation with an attorney is usually not that expensive, could be your best investment.
Hope the guys buddy sells out, if his buddy leaves, he might too.
The sawmill has a 98dBA standin right by the mill. 20 feet away it is 90dBA. So at his distance it would be no more than a riding lawnmower.
Quote from: spencerhenry on June 09, 2011, 10:15:27 AM
there is NO dealing with these neighbors. the one that complained has been convicted of several offenses, and he continues to be a problem. the fact is a sawmill is NOT allowed in my zoning so i am screwed at some point. the noise is just their way of getting the county to come look around. i know it is antagonistic to turn the neighbors in for their illegal stuff, but if i am shut down milling i have nothing to lose.
Like you said, the noise is just a way to get the county to come out and look around, in other words it isn't about that. What do you mean when you say a sawmill is not allowed in your zoning? You can't have a sawmill?? How does that work? You mean if you want to buy a bandmill and saw up a few logs for fun it is against the law?
You say you have nothing to lose for complaining about the neighbors in retaliation, but you don't have anything to gain by it either. With the gun story you just told about, it sounds like you need to take a step back and just take a breather for a bit. Getting all upset will get you no where in fact it very well could make matters worse for you and your neighbors. Just relax, find out what the law allows regarding the operations you have on your property, and comply with those laws. If you comply with all local laws your neighbors can't do anything to bother you. Sounds like right now you don't like your neighbor because he is an unsavory character, well that doesn't help you if your breaking the law on your property now does it? I totally sympathize with you about not being able to do what you want on your property, like milling some wood. I'll bet A LOT of people on this forum are in the same situation as you. That is: having a mill selling lumber and and NOT operating it on a commercially zoned property. What you gonna do turn them in all it too? Would that make you feel better? What you need to do is either get along with your neighbors,, or have the law on your side. Another thing I'd point out that might be obvious is... nothing is worth driving yourself crazy over like a long running argument with stupid neighbors. If you can't wake up and be happy everyday going about your normal business, it is time to move on from your situation.
Do away with running the mill. Get a V 8 Chainsaw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Tamp2fHhg
A relative of mine next county over to the west used to run his mill from 0800 to 1700 6 days a week, had a noise complaint filed against him. Since he was zoned agriculture, he was allowed to "make noise" from 0600 to 2200, and 0700 till 2200 on Sunday, so he changed his start time accordingly, and after a month, the complainer decided not to persue the matter further. I know this does not help you, but find out what the noise regulations are first, then decide on a course of action. May be that you are in compliance, and the neighbor is just being a nuisance because he can be.
The problem must be too many people. ::) How does being miles away from town restrict your use of a saw mill on 35 acres? We don't have county regulators up here, we have towns and posted town limits. They look after their town, we look after our own business. So what we do out here in the country isn't dictated by some town. There is land classification, but that is for taxation, not zoning. I don't even think gravel pits and making fish ponds will bring anyone out. My brother reported a guy in a travel trailer, living in it across the road, was dumping sewage in the brook. The rep from Dept of Environment said she couldn't do anything. What's the clean water act for? Every darn town around here that needs a sewage lagoon cleaned, just dumps it into the river. Lovely stuff. :D
running ANY kind of commercial operation is illegal on my property. there is NO way for me to comply with the zoning and still have an income from milling and wood products. the point is that almost everyone is violating the law by running a business out of their home. no it wont benefit me to turn them in, it will however be satisfaction that they soiled their own nest. several of them already hate me, thats fine i dont care. all i ever asked for was to be left alone, that in itself *pithed them off. there is no negotiating with these people, their goal for around 15 years has been to harass me into leaving. bought this property and have lived on it since i was 19 years old. i also have no financial way of leaving. there is no property that i can buy that will allow me to mill, i could rent in an industrial yard but the rent and the cost to drive there would make milling a break even proposition. i can make no money sitting at home, i dont need to deal with machines to make no money. a friend owns 7 acres of commercially zoned property, a few years ago a big job came up that i thought would make sense to do at his property. even zoned commercial, he is not allowed to do any manufacturing of any kind.
i am a "do unto others as they have done unto you" kind of guy. screw me and i will screw you back but far worse. but i work within the law, i dont vandalize and steal like they do. their intent is to cause me as much hassle, frustration, and difficulty as possible.... simply because they can.
the guy that called the sheriff yesterday was convicted of trespassing about 2 years ago. i heard a horn blaring at my house while i was working at the neighbors. i thought it was my plumber and that i had forgotten to unlock the house. when i got there i found my deadbeat neighbor passed out laying on his horn parked crossways in my driveway. while i was on the phone with the cops, he woke up flipped me off and rammed his truck into mine. it took the cops 2 hours to get here and all they cited him for was trespass. another neighbor drove his truck through my gate one night, about a month after he and his kid were cited for poaching two elk. he was convicted of criminal mischief for the destruction of my gate. his kid has been cited 5 times for driving without a drivers license, eluding, contraband in a detention facility, felon in possession, and felony theft.... all in the last 18 months. the neighbor that complained about the noise was charge with felony assault and convicted of 3rd degree assault and in another case convicted of trespassing.
i have been shot at by the guy that ran through my gate, i heard the bullets go by. he was using a handgun and was several hundred yards out. he told the cops that he was shooting at a cat.
comply with all the zoning laws? ok, who want to buy a mill, edger, skidsteer, log loader, gooseneck trailer, and a skidder? can i file for unemployment? no i havent taken a paycheck in 4 years.
sorry, but i think there is more to this story than your telling. there is 6 homes within 1/4 mile from my operation been running for 14 yrs, complaints zero!
Quote from: red oaks lumber on June 09, 2011, 07:06:00 PM
sorry, but i think there is more to this story than your telling. there is 6 homes within 1/4 mile from my operation been running for 14 yrs, complaints zero!
yup, a lot more, like if someone would have just taken responsibitly to look at the zoning laws before they even set up a mill, this thread wouldnt exist.
so, you are a "do unto others as they do to you" kind of guy, but want to nail all of the other neighbors if you get shut down.?????? thats quite sick of ya.
One thing you should do is look into business license which will give you specific rights even as a home owner I do believe you should be able to do some work from home in any area with the proper license application. usually 20 bucks in our area... anyhow going after the neighbors wont help without proof, one get a good camera security camera setup with a DVR recorder or video tape just in case...
I also vote with others get a good muffler first then maybe setup one side of the mill a board on board fence to block some of the noise. if ya want some poison ivy to grow on it that should prevent anyone climbing over (at least the second time :D) hehehe
anyhow your too far away for me to buy your mill setup :D darn anyway...
wish ya luck.
I live in S. Mississippi and our county doesn't have a zoning ordinance. I also have a crazy neighbor that lives across the road from me. Believe me, I like Hank Williams, Jr., but not wide open at 11:00 at night. I finally got tired of it and went over there one night and had it out with them. As usual, it was a whole drunk family, brothers, mother, and several friends. I finally shut them down. It probably also helped that I was a Captain on the police force at the time, even though I was out of my jurisdiction. I ain't had much trouble with them since. If it had kept up, I threatened to get up every morning about 5 a.m. and crank up my mill, my big planer, tractor and all and see how those hungover, pounding heads liked that. My friend, there are stupid people all over. Don't give up and don't let them run over you.
spencerhenry, pack up your mill equipment and head up this way. We have very little for bs up here. People leave you alone for the most part out at the farm. In town a bit of a different story though.... ::)
If I could build a big bubble out of one way glass for my place here in town I would..... Burst my bubble and I shoot and ask questions later. ;) :D
Can you switch to doing a fair amount of portable milling? Sounds like you have the equipment, and portable milling can have a different charging structure.
Sure is a lot of stuff goin on here. Good luck.
Why don't you build a large pole barn, insulate it, and mill inside of it? As long as nobody can hear the noise, you should be good.
even if i mill indoors, it is still not a "use by right" as the county calls it. a use by right is something you can do on your property without any special permits or b.s. the zoning here prohibits running any kind of business out of your home, although they will allow a bed and breakfast if you meet their building code requirements. things here are a little different than back east, here you cant just subdivide property if you want to. minimum lot size for a development is 35 acres unless you want to do through major hassles like providing community water. there is a new law in my county that went into effect about 2 years ago that says you cant have more than 4 houses on a dead end road! if i didnt have a house on my property right now, i would not be allowed to build. if i could build, i would have to have a 10,000 gallon water storage for the house and the shop, and firetruck turn around in my driveway where they can hook onto the dry hydrant for the water tanks.
to the person who suggests that i should have looked into the codes before i set up a mill, i am sure that you have never done anything that could be considered illegal. snide comments like yours would be better left off this forum. no one here needs a smart ass.
i am going to meet with the code enforcement guy and if he says i have to shut down, then i will request that everyone else be shut down as well. if i cant run a business on my property why should they let them do the same? he may tell me that the noise is not an issue and allow me to continue, if that happens i think it will buy me time but eventually i will get shut down. land and water use out here is quite a bit different than where most of you are from, and the people as well. one friend has suggested that they are just bitter and *pithed off because they see me working and making a living while they are at home 4 days a weeks without a job.
I'm glad I live out in the sticks, here in Texas. You do just about what you want to do out here. Kinda like the Wild West. Of course my neighbors aren't even close to the wild ones that live in the Thicket.
a few years ago i got a call from a guy who got my name from woodmizer. he wanted to find someone to mill the standing dead timber on his property into lumber for building a barn and sheds on the same property. i was totally interested in both cutting the timber and milling it. but he was in pitkin county (aspen) and the county would not let him cut his own dead standing timber. in 1995 cleared a lot on the edge of aspen where we were building a house. the city charged the owner $56,000 for the trees we removed to build the house. the owner was allowed to get 50% of that back if he put 50% into new trees during landscaping.
that is the kind of political situation i am dealing with.
Well, ....
This is definitely an interesting situation.
My two cents is this...and it is not based on Colorado law (I think that is what your location said) but it is how I would approach it personally. I would ask them to write it down and explain it to me. This is a two part request. Many people say what the law really says but when they come to explaining it in writing can't. So without a chip on your shoulder (and I have a bad temper when people pith me off) ask in the nicest way possible for them to give you enough rope to hang themselves. have them get your copies of the law and show you exactly where it says what it says. You might have a better grasp of the law than the local inspectors and regulators but honestly the playing dumb and letting them tell you how smart they are and explain it to you could be the grounds for a lawsuit when it is shown they are not upholding and applying the law appropriately.
Secondly, I would advise against turning your neighbors in. I have family in an area that routinely turn in drug dealers. and routinely the cops show up look around and can't see anything. When you have the slow response time and stupidity that you seem to have at your local government level than someone is likely on the take. When that happens police and fire and rescue don't always show up on time. and you don't want them to start not showing up...especially with as reckless as your neighbors are at shooting the local feline population....
the law is a tricky thing and I would look around for other options. Your neighbors seem to trust you to look after their lands. Have you considered applying to the county and set up where they normally drop off logs. I know where I live there is a 30-40 acre log/stump/limb drop area. Maybe they would let you set up there since you are helping them. you could speak to banks because they have to clean up a lot of properties these days...I think going somewhere else would be a safe option if you could find a way to get set up for business there. I think being flexible is where the future of self employment is going to be...for some that will be working online...for others...it might be working as a contractor for the city.
Have you thought about asking the city to hire you by contract, and have them name the location where they will drop logs for you to do your work. If they specifically hire you to work at your home...they are breaking the law as well but when you are their contractor they might look the other way.
sometimes it isn't easy to get perspective when you are in the situation...and I am not saying I would act any differently if someone wanted to shut me down. I do know that reacting to a situation without stepping back rarely produces the best results and that is what you want at the end of the day...the best results.
Best of luck
Another suggestion, followup to the post above. Surely in spite of what you have said, there must be some people in your area who legally do business on their properties. Artists, writers, photographers, consultants, various kinds of investors, anyone, for example, who would file Schedule C in their tax returns AND are working LEGALLY from their properties. These people might be claiming home offices, in fact maybe there is a registry of home offices at your town hall. Or on your property tax rolls, listing these offices. It is hard to imagine any zoning law written to prevent these clearly business activities in one's home. Get the written zoning code yourself, and insist on any objections to your activities served to you in writing, with reference to the code. That's the place to begin your defense. Hang in there. Sawing wood is worth a great deal.
I'm no lawyer, but perhaps Lawyer_Sawyer could comment on this:
Your neighbors who are operating businesses from their homes, could be an asset in this situation. I believe for a law to be enforceable, it has to be applied equitably and fairly. The "powers that be" can't choose to ignore some violations and act against others. Minimize your sound "footprint" (both volume, and hours of operation) so the complaining neighbors can't use that to show that you are a different case from other businesses in the area. Then go after the unfairness of having enforcement brought against you when no others in the area are being hassled.
As someone else mentioned, it might be worth looking in to when the zoning was created that bans your activity. You might be able to argue you should be grandfathered in if your activity predates the zoning. They may still want to put some restriction on you (noise level, hours of operation, etc.).
Th more you can show you are trying to be a good neighbor - "reasonable" hours of operation, steps taken to minimize the noise effect on your neighbors - the better you look when making an argument for continued operation. I'd keep a log of your hours of operation, so you have something other than just a verbal statement, if it comes to making a case. I'd also keep a record of other things you have done new muffler, relocating the mill, landscaping to reduce sound traveling to neighbors, etc. It can't hurt to show you've gone the extra mile to be a good neighbor.
Run for the county board job.
Here in Jefferson county in Washington state if your property is classed as "Forest land" there is no restriction on the noise you can make if it pertains to forestry operations. You can probably exclude the couple of acres for a house like I did. I just had to make up a forest management plan and have it go thru the county. The forestry designation also lowers your taxes but then if you want to sell it or change it back you have to pay the $ back. I pay about a dollar an acre per year and can run the noisiest skidder I want when ever. good luck. I also have a dip wad neighbor, oh well.
Park Ranger, did you write your plan. I need one too and I am in the state of WA also. Joe
My neighbors are F-18s and EA6 Growlers they kinda out noise our sawmill ;D
Quote from: John Mc on June 12, 2011, 10:16:46 AM
I'm no lawyer, but perhaps Lawyer_Sawyer could comment on this:
Your neighbors who are operating businesses from their homes, could be an asset in this situation. I believe for a law to be enforceable, it has to be applied equitably and fairly. The "powers that be" can't choose to ignore some violations and act against others. Minimize your sound "footprint" (both volume, and hours of operation) so the complaining neighbors can't use that to show that you are a different case from other businesses in the area. Then go after the unfairness of having enforcement brought against you when no others in the area are being hassled.
As someone else mentioned, it might be worth looking in to when the zoning was created that bans your activity. You might be able to argue you should be grandfathered in if your activity predates the zoning. They may still want to put some restriction on you (noise level, hours of operation, etc.).
Th more you can show you are trying to be a good neighbor - "reasonable" hours of operation, steps taken to minimize the noise effect on your neighbors - the better you look when making an argument for continued operation. I'd keep a log of your hours of operation, so you have something other than just a verbal statement, if it comes to making a case. I'd also keep a record of other things you have done new muffler, relocating the mill, landscaping to reduce sound traveling to neighbors, etc. It can't hurt to show you've gone the extra mile to be a good neighbor.
I would go the route above. To add if the guy coming to listen to noise level has any idea of who called and you are on his good side ,he might mention to them without you telling specific about each neighbor that them that live in glass houses should not throw stones. Considering he is willing to listen to noise level tells me he isn't out to get you.
Otherwise he would have already been up there .
Spencer, I hope you get to continue to saw. If I had your ambition and was forced to shutdown. I would just move elsewhere . Really what is a man without his dreams. You did it once you can do it again. I know easier said than done. Hope it doesn't come to that.
buy an airboat, its not a business and it is very loud, they will all say "what sawmill"? ;D
Forgetabout it. Send someone over there to make him an offer he can't refuse.
I don't think your neighbors who are code violators are going to come to your aid.
If he' such a deadbeat, do some research on him, and maybe he may have major issues like tax evasion he would like to keep quite. People like that usually do.
Quote from: ely on June 15, 2011, 04:32:02 PM
buy an airboat, its not a business and it is very loud, they will all say "what sawmill"? ;D
And if there is not a noise ordinance now, there will be soon after...
What a shame, I wanna follow along on this....
Ironwood
Where i live these people out back of me go into peoples homes and have been caught red handed. Here the sheriffs dept say they cannot do anything. They have been arrested for counterfitting of 100 dollar bills and drugs and got no more than one day in jail. I feel these people who are part of society as do nothing and live off others meaning social security and can walk just fine... damb lets just have a linch mob come on over from another state...
The sheriff was telling people here they cannot do anything. Well give me my property taxes back everytime you cannot do your job.
Out here too many move from the city and change the laws over flood the schools with there un productive bullied up children and leave a mark on the community. They sure can steel diesel an any scrap metal you have. Maybe you should put in a chicken farm and smell them out. Next to your noise maybe there is no law for smelling crap all day long in the hot sun?
Some people north of me had the same issues with a guy. He had speakers on top of his house and had a scanner when cops called he turned the music off when they showed up. He had minors in his place all the time and selling drugs and getting away with it. And what he did not know is there are a lot of retired military in his area who decided not to go to the police. The guy did not last a summer he moved fearing for his life. Which was fine for the rest of us.
I know what you are going through why I am looking to buy a place out of the area.
I hope this works out, and it sounds like a crazy situation, but I would strongly advise (as others have ) AGAINST turning in your neighbors. You don't want all that negative energy directed at you, and sometimes you need neighbors, especially if you are rural.
Good luck.
Dave
good luck on your "situation". I honestly do not know what has happened to freedom in this country. Sounds like there are waayyy to many birkenstock wearing ex dope smokers in your area who are changing all the rules in local government so that it is unlivable for the common man. Arm yourself with information, know the exact laws or ordinances that they are using against you, ask them for a written explaination of why you are not in compliance, and save it as ammo for suing the county zoning board, or commissioners or whoever is responsible for seeing that the law is equally enforced. you are guaranteed equal protection under the law, and the law is to be applied without prejudice. If you are being unfairly singled out, you have things on your side. Information is power, unless all ini government in your locale are being paid off by some to look the other way, or some other such "conflict of interest" is at play. You are not in an easy postition, I wish you well, and hope that the outcome ends up with a livable condition for you and your freedom.
Gday
Sorry to read about your situation Mate :o :) :) :( :( In Australia we have a law that states that you can do what ever you need to on your own land as long as it is what you need to do to earn a living "ie" I can run My sawmill in town here if its only myself and a laborer with Me and the equipment is classed as portable as long as I only work between the hrs dawn to dusk ;) but once you get to a bigger size with more ppl working with me and starting to put in fixed equipment and large shedding thats when the council will get jacked up about any complaints and will say that you need to move to an Industrial zoned site ;) Other wise they will just tell the person they have no grounds for complaint ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)
I feel for you there are also issues around here 15 years ago we did whatever the hell we wanted to now we have some idiots and retires from the city moving here most are good but there are some that want change how we do things here to suit them :) :) :) :) ??? ??? ::) ::) ::) :( :( :'( .All I tell them welcome to the country We where here before you so just get use to how We do things ;) :D :D ;D
I remember as a kid from home on a weekend you could hear the 20 + Firewood cutters benching firewood all over town zing zing zing its a rare noise these days which is sad ;) :( :( :'(
Keep us posted Mate
Regards Chris
Beginning to wonder if Spencer got lynched. :o
Five years ago, I looked at purchasing a 2 acre lot that was about 1000 feet from the fence at Fort Wayne International Airport. One the left side of the lot was a several hundred thousand water tank that was the emergency water supply for the airport itself in case of fire. On the right was a delapidated farm and barn that had collapsed. To the rear of the property and across from the property was several hundred acres of farm land.
This lot was zoned Industrial as IN-2, but town zoning called for IN-4 zoning for a sawmill operation. I contacted the zoning department and went to see them in person to see if the expensive zoning upgrade ( about $4000 when all was said and done) was really necessary and took a picture of the LT-10 sawmill with 10 HP motor that I planned to house there inside of a new pole barn.Two days later, I got a response from the zoning board.
The town responded that the zoning upgrade would be necessary. The went on to say that they were concerned about the noise that would come from the sawmill.
I said you have to be kidding. 1000 feet away i would have 747's and F15 and F16's taking off and landing all day long and you are concerned about the noise from a 10 hp motor that is about half the size of what home riding mowers have and that would be run about 10 hours a week? Who could I possible annoy...the ears of corn or the water tank? They would not budge an inch, so I told them to shove it and bought a building 2 weeks later in a town that is much more friendly to small business and have not had a single problem at all.
Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on July 13, 2011, 08:51:55 PM
I told them to shove it and bought a building 2 weeks later in a town that is much more friendly to small business and have not had a single problem at all.
That is my kind of thinking. :)
Mine too. And if truth be told, if you looked deeper in the laws there is probably something on the books that says it's unlawful to interfere with a man's right to have a legitimate business in his back yard, miles from any town. County be darned!!
What the heck, are they trying to urbanize the rural areas now for your tax money? It must be desperate times is all I can say.
I guess the corn might not pop or be edible after all that sawmill noise, and the water tank might just start too cry at all that extra noise,LOL. GOVERNGONE WOLD/NUTS, and just out to fill thier pockets with everyone elses hard earned money. By the way I bet if they had allowed you too have a saw mill, then all that revenue from permitting, zonning changes and the like would have gone into their over inflated salaries.LOL. :o 8 ::) :D :D :D :D >:( >:(