Hey all just looking to get some info on the pettibone skidders. A local sawmill owner has made me an offer to trade me a pettibone skidder for my brush bandit chipper. I would like to know the good and bad of these skidders, if any one has any input or knows anything about them please tell. I haven't gone to look at it yet so I don't know year or model. But from what I have been told by one of the sawmill workers is that it has a 3-53 Detroit and it runs very well and has good rubber on it. Just a little concerned that if I do go ahead with the trade that it is a good first skidder and parts can still be had for them if something should break.
Pettibone was pretty solid and good. There were many modles some i am not familure with. Parts are available from the company. You have to find a dealer or get the parts list from pettibone. I have one (small) If its in good shape you will not go wrong. Yes in some areas of the country they were more popualr than others. Read the post on the 501 on here.
Thanks jocco for the info. What did they have for axles and winches? What typically goes bad on them besides the normal skidder stuff? What model do you have? Are they easy to work on? Again thanks for the info. ;D
My 501 has a gearmatic 19 winch, the axles are stamped "Pettibone" whether they actually manufactured them or not I couldn't say. Parts are available through Tiffin Parts, which is a division of the Pettibone company. I ordered a parts manual through them.
h generaly 9 19 or 119 gearmatic. Good winch cab have a few quirks. Axles good question? I have seen the pettibone/michigan type, the rockwell and some may have had others. I have a master 5 They all have there good and bad features to work on. To sum it up i can see some franklin, tree farmer and international in most of the modles all of witch i am familure with. They are nothing like a deere or timberjack. I would make sure all the running gear is solid the biggest problem on the winch are bands and hydraulics.
Thanks guys for the great info so far as they say knowledge is power. If you can think of anything else please tell I'm new to skidders and this would be my first if I decide to pick it up.
Read the other post on Pettibone skidders, there is more info there.
Thanks barbender I have been reading those post. Hope to take a look this week maybe.
Got some more info on the skidder, It has a 4-53 not a 3-53 and it has a standard transmission and gear matic winch. It does however need a seal in the winch and the service brakes don't work but the E brake works. Are the seals available and are brakes parts available? Are they easy to work on? I'm hoping to go look at it this week so I'm just trying to get some impute on the issues that it has so I have some bargaining power.
If it has a 4 53 probably a master 8 or similar larger skidder. On the winch most 19 119 parts are available if it should be a 21 type not so. The 19 uses brake cylinders similar to a car. You really need to pin down the information on this and call pettibone or look at other suppliers example if it new process tranny or rockwell axel.
Thanks jocco how do I determine if the axles are rockwells? And how do I tell what transmission it has? What usally goes bad on the brakes to keep them from working? Also it oscillates in the rear section of the machine instead of the front axle is this a disadvantage or a advantage thanks for the info. :)
Mine has the rear oscillation too, I like it except it looks more complex to repair than a front axle setup. I'd agree, if it really has a 453 it must be one of the larger machines. My service brake is a hydraulic disc, it is on a shaft that has the drum parking brake on the other end of it.
Thanks for the info barbender is there any advantage to the rear oscillation? I think it might be a master 8 it is a little bigger than a 664 clark from what I have been told. Is the brake system a hard thing to repair or is it a pretty simple system.
Logman, there's a few things I prefer about the rear oscillation. 1-your blade follows your front wheels, which is pretty handy. 2-you don't get the surprise slap in the side of the head when one of your rear wheels hits a stump you missed with the front wheels. You see the bumps the front fixed axle is going to hit- if that makes any sense. I haven't worked on my brakes at all, but in the parts manual it looks like there is a countershaft in the tranny, maybe its the transfer case, with the disc service brake on one end and the drum parking brake on the other end. Looks pretty simple in the book ::)
BTW, my 501 has a 353, gearmatic 19 winch, and it weighs #17K. Probably about the size of a C5 Tree Farmer.
logman: You will have to know axles or post pictures etc. There are different sizes/types of each. Same for transmissions but you may get lucky and have a tag/name plate. On ebay there is quite a few books for pettibone skidders and there was modle 1000 etc also. Brakes: depends on modle some may be hydralic mine is mechanical like a brake brum on a car. usually shoes or linkage or hydraulic failure is cause of problem. If you mean cradle on the rear axle, some franklins had that it also works good.
Thanks guys for the info I'm starting to feel a little more educated on this skidder I really appreciated. And if anyone else has info they would like to share please do. ;D I am thinking I might just go fourth with it if the trade is fair it would be a big improvement having a skidder over the tractor. I hope to go look at it soon they had to pull the rad out of it because it had a small leak :(. But it should be up and running soon for my to try it out. What should I be looking for when I test it? I know I should be looking at things like pins and bushings, trying the winch, making sure the clutch is good by pushing against something and seeing if all four wheels spin those sort of things.
Logman if i was serious i would pull some oil out of the running gear (some have magnetic plugs) look for any grindings. Take cover off winch and look at bands if its a gearmatic. They are prone to rust and seperation. Check u joints/yokes and pinions for wear (mine has clark running gear.) Any skidder can be running today and in pieces tommorow Where i suceeded is i could fix one when others failed. If it makes you feal any better over the years one of mine has had winch, tranny, transphre rebuilt New motor, clutchs, new hyd lines and cylinder rebuilt along with contol valves A few new tires and panataries to boot. I am pretty familure with that machine ;D Also look for a lot of welded up or crudly repaired parts.
Logman, all of the replies have been about the skidder. What about your trade? What model Brush Bandit is it and what is it worth? Do you feel it will be an even trade and will you miss not having the chipper?
bill m my chipper is '92 brush bandit model 200+ with a fully rebuilt Cummings 3.9 with less than 100 hrs on it since rebuilt. It is in real good shape everything works as it should I feel it is worth about the same or very close to it. I may have to put a small amount of money towards the skidder but not to much the mill owner is willing to work something out with me. I don't think I will miss it to much as most of my jobs don't require me to do much chipping if any I have used no more than twice this year. I figure I can make enough money with the skidder that if I do need a chipper I can always get another one if needed or borrow a friends chipper.
Logman81
If that's the skidder I think it is, it originally had a "Mico" brake caliper (surplus aircraft) for the service brakes. Years ago, seals were not available to rebuild it so they were replaced (many times) with buna-n o-rings. The caliper was removed to fab a bracket to mount a automotive caliper but was never completed. The parking brake is not strong enough to hold the machine while winching.
UN
UN Hooker I'm not sure if it is the same one or were it came from but it is currently owned by the local saw mill owner Jimmy Thompson. I'm sure why the service brake doesn't work as I haven't gone to look it over yet but I was told the parking brake does work. You say the parking brake is not enough to hold the machine so it would important to get the service brakes working than. It might be a good idea to work something into the deal to get them working before I buy it brakes are a must for me. :D Do you know the exact machine?
The Mico is device that locks the pressure to hold your hydraulic service brakes. Its just a valve. Mine doesn't work, but my service brakes still do. The way the Mico works, you would step on your brakes and then set the valve so you don't have to manually hold them while you are winching.
That has been done away with in trucks and equipment as a safty problem if it leaks your toast. Kind of like standing under a hydralic load and a seal pops >:(
Timberjack had to replace them with a band type emergency brake.
A very sad day today, Got to the job to move my tractor out of the way to cut some trees and decided to move a log out of the way. I began to move the log and BAAM! :o I lost four wheel drive took a closer look and sure enough I broke either something in the diff or the axle is broke. This is the second time I have had a problem with the front end. :-\ Tractors are just not made for woods work compared to a skidder. I guess I have no choice but to go fourth with the trade and get the skidder if it is in good shape. I'm going tomorrow to go look at it and I hope it is what they say it is and not a pile of junk I'm out of business without a way to move the wood. :(
Sorry to hear about your breakdown. I hope the skidder pans out well for you.
Thanks mad murdock I appreciate your sympathy. :) Hopefully something can be worked out.
What brand and size tractor are you using?
Logman81
Yes, that is the one. Many years ago, I used it to pull my firewood for several years and when it left here it was working real well. I liked running it, it would pull a good hitch!
I know what a Mico brake lock is, I have one on my TF. At one time Mico made calipers for aircraft (they may still ) but these were surplus parts and eventually you could not find seals to repair them. On my TF I used a rotor & caliper from a Chrysler "K" car and that works real good.
The axles on that skidder are Pettibone , the same ones used on some of their wheel loaders.
I hope that deal works out for you.
UN
Mico has a website, and it looks to me like they are still making these systems. They were never intended to be a parking brake, my machine has a separate parking brake.
I just looked, their site is www.mico.com. I don't know about parts, but you can buy new ones on there.
Thanks guys for all the info. Bill m the tractor is a dong feng made in china. :D It is the 354 model 38hp With loader it's a good machine as long as you don't push it to hard. UN Hooker can you tell me more about the machine? From what I know is it has a good running 4 53, Standard trans and has decent 23's instead of the usual 18.4's. If I go fourth with it I plan on giving it a good sand blasting and a new paint jobs and fixing anything that need fixing so It will be nice and reliable. It will be mostly used for doing selective wood lot thining's and firewood harvesting and some saw logs from time to time and house lots. I will try and take some pics of it.
Logman going by what unhooker said if the axles are same as the wheel loader they should be plentiful and are the michigan/clark type. (they have 3 "frost plugs") in them over the pins. There may have been different sizes or weight ratings but they were rugged never see to many broke.
Well guys I went and looked at the skidder, Not to bad from what I could tell couldn't test drive it because the rad isn't in it yet. It has a gearmatic 19 winch that looks dry with a good main line and slides. It's got 23.1 tires some weather checking but still have some tread left and they hold air. Standard fuller transmission, no major leaks. All the sheet metal is their and in good shape. It does have Pettibone axles and all seals are dry on them as well. One thing I thought was neat was that it had an adjustable arch. Looks like a heavy machine a lot of iron built into it not to many re welds I think I only found two. Needs a paint job but as far as I can tell the mechanic's are good.
Logman: i have some sources for parts for these (you can get some stuff right from bone itself) let me know if you need help or sources. Just so that you know a gearmatic if in use every day is a good winch if it has sat for years well in can be worse than all my ex wives smiley_devil What model or size was the machine.
Thanks jocco for the help. The machine hasn't sat for to long it has been pretty well cared for. I does have some strange short pieces of plumbing pipe coming out of the right side of the winch looking at the back of the machine not sure what that's all about. I'm still not sure what model it is but it is bigger than the 501. I think it did have the ID plate still on it by the seat I will look when I go back to test drive it and let you know.
The strange plumbing in the center cover is the line to the clutch cylinder. On top of the casting is the brake line cylinder. Read some posts on here on gearmatic 9 and 19 winches and mine and ed k on how to fix the leaking gland seal. 501 was a good machine also. Just so you know if set up right those 19 119 will pull very good.
Also strongly recommend you pressure was all the belly pans and eng compartments due to fire hazzard. If it has not been done in the last 20 years. That adjustable arch was common on many machines as well as tire size options.
I agree, actually I plan to power wash the entire machine including the belly pans, then sand blast it and give it a new paint job including the engine. I found out that dupli-color makes high temp paint that is the right color "Alpine green." I like the fact that it has the wider rubber makes it more stable and less prone to making ruts in soft ground. The place where it is at has already power washed it pretty good and they are going through it and making sure everything works as it should they won't let it leave until every thing has been gone over and working. ;D
Sounds good logman on them ensuring its working condition. In the right areas a skidder can bring 10-20 grand puzzles me to see them in other areas for south of $6 same machine. Another fire point is top of manifold on the detroit, debries used to set in there. Nothing wrong with the wide tires, skidders were speced out like a truck one in the south was configured different than one in maine etc. Also to test that winch (there should be an aluminum hande/cylinder in the cab). Hook up to some thing very solid and see if it slips with brake on. Do the same on cluth (under heavy load) also watch out for the cable starting to wind in itself. Why i say this all the bands bearing seals could be $1500 to fix The clutch side has a bunch of cams to adjust it. happy holidays
If ANY of you guys want parts, I have a friend cleaning up an old sawmill and I could likely get any parts, axles, winch (see pics, parts only no bands), rims etc. There is also a front steer Pettibone "forklift" machine on site, I did not get a picture of it. It would be a full day to go get the torches and my 550 crane truck up to the site and burn the stuff off, so whle I could get the parts you'de need to pay my time fuel etc,... and give the FF there %age. There are also Detroits in each machine, of unknown running condition. I dont lik to see stuff like this scrapped, but it is too far to drive without someone wanting them (3 hour each way). I know sometimes the Pettibone axles are hard to come by, I had an other guy loooking for a Pettibone axle for a crane, cant seem to find his # now. Tires are so shot, you cant even read the tire size, they also had skidder chains from the Pettibone, might be able to get those.
Let me know ASAP, the scrap dumpster is VERY near the machines and they are moving fast to clear the land. I have no idea what model or make the inverted frame was, looks like a "divorced" transfer set up if that helps.
UPDATE: my buddy says they are not his,....yet. If they lay there for a while he takes ownership. If you are still interested I can get contact info on the guy who technically owns them currently and he can piece them out, you would just need to compensate Jeff for the FF connection
Ironwood
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jocco what I meant about the strange piping was some what I think to be 1/14 schedule pipe that nothing is hooked to coming out of the outside of the winch on the top of the winch and the side clutch cover I have not seen this before and seems odd. This is one of those skidders that is selling for south 10 grand and should be a fairly equal trade. Hope you all had a good Christmas. ;D
Don't know unless i see a picture maybe a guard for hyd hoses, wireing. Have seen auxilary hyd on a skidder to run whatever on a wood yard.
okay I'll try to figure out how to put some pics up of the machine.
Tried to post pics of the winch and machine but it won't let put them on my gallery oh well. I should be finalizing the trade by the end of the week.
Can't help on pictures.
No problem jocco I was just trying to put a picture up to show you the winch with all the strange sticking out of it. The trade has be delay a little do to a magnetic switch going bad on the chipper couldn't happened at a worst time. >:(
I've also been told that the engine is new but can't verify it till the test drive.
The detroit 3 and 4 53 are good engines and parts or spares are available they are a pain to work on if you are not a detroit man. What did they do with this skidder since it is at mill? How much logging is in rohde island?
I'm lucky enough to know several diesel mechanics that are familiar with the detriots. From what I have be told by the previous owner is that it was used to skid firewood for a few years. The mill bought a package deal a timberjack 460 and this one. They didn't need this one so they decided to fix the things wrong with it and sell it. I plan on using it to clear house lots and and selective firewood harvesting for the most part and all so doing some sub-contract work for my friend. Their is actually quit a bit of logging going on in such a small state it's a heavily forested state. A lot of nice white pine and red and white oak.
Good on all that :) You can make good money doing tree work and chipping sell some logs, firewood etc. Skidders were made for hard core commercial logging so small jobs arn't to bad for them. A lot of people use a farmi winch for that around here.
I wont work it to hard but the problem is I will be losing the chipper so will need to do jobs that don't require chipping but that wont be a problem. I'll make the money back with this machine to get another chipper. I have a tractor with winch and it has gotten me by but it beats the heck out of the tractor it's no skidder that's for sure. I do get the occasional job were the logs have been way to big for the tractor to handle and have had to turn the jobs down so this will open up new opportunity's.
Pretty much what i run into on the tractor. I still use one for small jobs cause its easy to move. I have a large tractor and it is still hard. I am sure you can find a chipper and do some creative finacing. :) Just as a tip try to get some money put away in case skidder goes down even a credit card to effect repairs on it!!!! :o
Thanks for the tip. ;D I plan on keeping the tractor around for small jobs too but will try to keep it out of the rough stuff. I plan to start by offering the guy a even trade and go from there. Need to keep some $$ aside for modifications and normal maintenance stuff and of course if something should break from a rookie operator. :D Anyways I'm going down to the mill tomorrow with the wife and see if it is ready for a test drive then if all is good I'll make my offer on it. I already have two 35 acre lots that I have to bid on. both of witch are going to be mostly cleared. One for a tree farm and the other for growing produce. I have one question to ask what kind of a drag is this machine capable of skidding a cord plus?
Logman: i have not seen the machine but if 453 heavy drivetrain??? up to 2 cords in good going. ;D Now here is the (well smiley_devil) Be carfull of long trees if the top fetches they will jerk a machine bad. Unlimbed wood brushwood etc is harder on them go lighter!!!! dadgum you, Charlie! Avoid sharp corners like the plage (keep the machince strait) as possible even when pushing up wood. Let off the winch in a hard hole then re winch up. Winch: be very carfull they are not a toy. If tree is not cut off it will pull it back to you fast >:( Do not winch more than 45 degress to the sides. teeter_totter After you brake a few planetaris drive shafts and roll it over a few times you will be on your way to mastering it :D What i am trying to say is those things have so much power you can get in trouble quick A tractor will just stop/or spin out or farmi winch will stop pulling. I will give you some help setting up your maineline and taglines for land clearing if your want it? How big is the wood on the 35 acer lots?
Yes the drive train seems to be built heavy, That is quite a hitch a lot more than my tractor! :D I limb most of my logs out in the woods and try to keep the skid trails straight. I heard that the 19 are pretty good as long as you keep them adjusted properly. Sounds like it could be the perfect machine as long as I'm careful with how I operate it a lot of power! :) I could use any help I can get to avoid mistakes It has a good mainline with I think seven log slides on it now. I'm not sure on how big the wood is I haven't gone to look at it yet. I have worked in the area before and the wood was good size on average about 20'' on the stump.
On real tall trees cut them into or take a log out makes it easier on the machine. I wood pull the passenger side cover on that winch rust was a big issue. Yes gearmatic was a good winch. Use a hacksaw blade to adjust the bands out to the drum ::) be very carfull of rustd stuck parts in it they break off :( I would run 8-10 chokes on it (any more they start getting tangled) If you do need more there are some tricks) :P
Thanks for the advice jocco :) I went down to the mill today to take it for a test drive and the rad is still not in it and no one was around to find out why must of been because of the holiday. I'll have to stop by sometime later in the week and find out what is going on.
If it don't work out look all over New england, NY there are lots of skidders for sale. I would look at Deere, clark and TJ (parts are easy to find) Tree farmer, Franklin arn't to bad When you get in to massey, case, pettibone, IH etc parts are a little harder to find. Obviously you will have a trucking exspense but thats buisness. I would stay away fron small axle machines (ie TJ 205) If you have a lot of work you may have to spend more and get agood machine Those $8000 and less can be a problem child. Also figue on atleast one major repair a year (engine, winch etc) it goes with the territiory ;D
I wish I had that option, but the guy approached me first wanting to buy the chipper after I had told a friend of mine that knows him real well that I was looking for a skidder and would like to trade my chipper. Without selling or trading the chipper I have little buying power. This is really the perfect opportunity to get what I need and trucking would be very cheap as the skidder is only ten minutes from me. I do have a backup plan if it doesn't work out. Their is another skidder not to far from me in CT. It's a early tree farmer C4, it has rockwell axles, standard 4 spd, cotter transfercase, gearmatic #9 and 16.9-30 tries that are almost new with chains on front. It does have a unusual engine a Mitsubishi 4bd diesel but at least it is a backup machine and he is also willing to take trades. Another machine that might be available is a 63' timber jack 205c it's old but it could still be useful on small jobs I don't want to go to big because I do a lot of timber stand improvements and need something that can get around in the woods without damaging the leave trees to much and for transport reasons as well. My friend of mine does does have a clark 664 with 3-53 and automatic that I'm using right now. I like the machine very easy to use you don't have to be a octopus to run the thing and it has good pulling power.
I would not care to much for the c4 or 205 as a main stay unless you are doing just pulp or house lots. Clark 664 hard on fuel a little less stabile than a TJ but good machine and very good winch. ;D Just look around and find a clark 667 tre farmer c7/8 franklin 180 etc with 4-71 or 6v53 detroit :D As they say go big or go home teeter_totter Just kidding I know many banks will not finance that type of equipment anymore due to age of it.
I really don't need a big skidder I cut mostly firewood and house lots and occasional saw logs so I think a small to medium sized skidder would be ideal. Yes the clark does burn it's fair share of fuel. But I think the pettibone shouldn't be to bad being a standard trans.
Keep us posted on this, The standard usually does good on gas. A buddy had a tj 230 and it drank more fuel than a train could!!! The mitsubisi engine must have been put in at home not bad if done correctly. I would run from those ford diesel 172 or what ever they call them (parts nightmare and i guess parts are hard to get pinkie_invert)
I will definitely keep you posted, I'm hoping that it will decent on fuel as I wont have to rev it out so much to get it moving. I made a mistake the engine in the tree farmer is not a Mitsubishi but an Izuzu diesel and it's only 88hp. I agree with you on the ford engine I'm not a big fan of them. I hope they hurry up and get the rad back together I am really looking forward to taking it for a test drive and getting this thing to work on its first job.
Isuzu diesels have a solid reputation.
Thanks barbender I don't know much about the Izuzu diesels but I did here that they are good on fuel. At least it's a back up plan if other skidder doesn't work out. :)
The only problem with the Isuzu is parts are quite a bit more expensive than say a 3.9 Cummins that is much more common. The good news is that they rarely need parts. ;)
Sounds good, I had my 3.9 rebuilt last year in my chipper and parts were not hard to get but weren't as cheap as I thought they would be. I have looked at what it would cost for a basic rebuild for a 453 and it is a lot cheaper to rebuild then the cummins.
If my 353 lays down on me I'll be hunting for a 3.9 Cummins. The Detroit noise and power curve are neat for about a day ::)
I agree Barbender,my 4-53 is still loud with a big truck muffler.It cost me $6500. for my rebuild.Next time will be a cummins.
Yeah, for $6500 you might have bought a new 3.9 Cummins.
I like the way the detroit sounds I just wear a quality set of ear muffs. It cost me over $6500 to rebuild my 3.9 but that was mostly a higher labor charge won't go to that mechanic again. Plus my 3.9 is only rated at 76 hp not 140 like the detroit. But anyways this is about pettibone skidders not engines. :)
Logman: I think any engine is going to cost and have its specific issues to rebuild, no matter what it is. I grew up on detroits and they used to be common, But i believe they are fast going like the flathead fords did. Way i look at it is if the machine is rigged up for it it is much easier to put a detroit back in it Than convert to whatever. Sometimes you have to convert no choice. YOu can see the advantage of running something that is common vrs something that is not :P
Just speculating what would be the best Pettibone power plant ::). I've came across Detroit that are muffled down reasonably quiet, so there must be some way to do it.
Well now you have opened pandoras box!!!! yikes_smiley Most bigger bones had detroit in the day. Seen one with ford one with JD the master 5 had the v- 465 wisconsin gas job. I would think a deere similar to 4 and 540 would be good so would a cummings. The problem with those misubisi, isuze etc, (i don't know if there a stationary industrial or car motor) Are they meant for the job??? smiley_dunce Also parts issue at leat here. Now don't laugh but a german deutz was in many machins and did well long as you kept ith clean (air cooled) They sound like a 100 little men with hammers though teeter_totter As an aside many people went back to gas motors (for private wood lots) just cheaper to install. Don't know how good that would be but i ran alot of skidder/dozers with gas engines ;D We will take no further questions from the audiance!! smiley_devilish
Went to look at a can car c6d today not a bad machine, Had a 435, gearmatic winch and had a clark arch. It also had big front end loader rock tires not sure why, it was a huge machine way to big for me. Also saw a small Timberjack skidder in some ones drive way on my way to look at the can car in ct. Not sure what size maybe a 208 225 it was one of the smaller ones I'll have to keep a close eye on it for a for sale sign :D
There was 207 215 201 200 and a few others. Knock on door and ask questions ;D has the bone fell through??
One thin about an older jack is: working alone they are very easy to get on and off of. A tree farmer is terible that way.
Isuzu diesels are industrial, they may have made some automotive engines too. I think there was a Chevy Luv pick up that had an Isuzu diesel in it. TJ's are OK for access, except it is from one side only. My Pettibone is kind of a bear to get on and off because the cab is so high, and I'm 6'5". Something you might want to consider if you have short legs. ;)
Mine is not to bad but not like a jack. Barbender are you the one with the 501?
yes Timberjack made many small skidder models. I saw it driving by and that orange color caught my eye. :) It's funny how when your looking for something they seem to come out of the wood work. I'll have to stop by and ask about the jack and see what the story is. The one that I do have to consider is the accesses to the cab and the older jacks are very easy to get in and out of, The pettibone is not so easy because of the tall cab. I'm still waiting on them to put the rad back in the bone I guess their waiting for it to come back from getting repaired. From what I do know is it also has a leak on the clutch cover might be just a bad gasket. It also has no service brakes not sure why. Hopfully you can still get parts for it. I'm not sure what type of system it had but the brake pedal is hanging with nothing attached to it? Any way I'm going down again today to get some straight answers on the machine and I'll take a ride over to get the scoop on the jack. :)
Quote from: jocco on January 09, 2012, 06:49:23 AM
Mine is not to bad but not like a jack. Barbender are you the one with the 501?
Yes
Logman, I don't know what brake system in particular that machine would have, but I would bet it's pretty simple and something that could be fixed.
Hard to tell mine had a drum/shoes and mechanical linkage. Some may have had a hydraulic system. I lookedat a lot of skidders in the past and turned many down. Took my time to find what i wanted, back then.
Ok guys I got some more info on the pettibone. :) I talked to the mill owner an he said it is a 1968, He purchased it from a fellow that had past away. What he told me was that the engine has a fresh rebuild and has a good clutch and runs good and should pull a good size hitch. ;D The bad is it is missing the brake caliper to the service brakes but the disc is still there. I think it might also be missing the master cylinder as well since nothing is attached to the brake pedal. He did say that a big truck caliper would work. Also the winch has a leak were it goes into the cylinder not to sure what he means but I will have to figure it out. The radiator should be back in it later today or tomorrow for a test drive this week. He is definitely interested in the chipper and is willing to make a deal so were getting closer to a result. The only thing that scares me is having no brakes and that it might be hard to get them or put some kind of a system that will work back in it. The winch should be a easy to fix as parts are still available and doesn't seem to be to expensive to fix hopefully!
Quote from: logman81 on January 09, 2012, 02:03:50 PM
Ok guys I got some more info on the pettibone. :) I talked to the mill owner an he said it is a 1968, He purchased it from a fellow that had past away. What he told me was that the engine has a fresh rebuild and has a good clutch and runs good and should pull a good size hitch. ;D The bad is it is missing the brake caliper to the service brakes but the disc is still there. I think it might also be missing the master cylinder as well since nothing is attached to the brake pedal. He did say that a big truck caliper would work. Also the winch has a leak were it goes into the cylinder not to sure what he means but I will have to figure it out. The radiator should be back in it later today or tomorrow for a test drive this week. He is definitely interested in the chipper and is willing to make a deal so were getting closer to a result. The only thing that scares me is having no brakes and that it might be hard to get them or put some kind of a system that will work back in it. The winch should be a easy to fix as parts are still available and doesn't seem to be to expensive to fix hopefully!
I would get the model and you can find pettibone on line or giarandsons.com They may be able to help on the brake parts. Yes probably a truck master and caliper. The winch should be easy to fix ;D welcome to the world of gearmatic smiley_devil Just take out that word easy smiley_devilish Sounds like a leak in the clutch or brake cylinder. I have a controller that is leaking and i need to put a kit in it smiley_crying
When I go test drive it I'll try to find the tag and contact pettibone or giarandsons.com. I think that is what he said that it was either the clutch or brake cylinder.
I've seen threads on here somewhere where guys converted the drum brake on a TJ to a caliper and disc off of a truck, so you should be able to find one that will work.
Logman
The disc on that skidder is 1/2" thick. If you use a truck caliper, be sure to find one that used a disc close to 1/2". On my C4, I used a disc & caliper from a Chrysler "K" car, which works very well.
When we were looking for parts for that machine, it was always ref. to as a "15" model.
UN
Thanks UN Hooker So its a master 15 model. Do you know anything more about the brake situation on it? Anything else I should know about the machine? Did the winch have the leak when you had it. I just want to know if it is a good machine or is it going to be a constant battle fixing things. Do you think I might still be able to get manuals on it and for the winch?
I got a manual for my 501 from Tiffin parts.
Thanks for the info If I get it I'll contact them and see if I can get one from them or pettibone.
Tiffin is the parts division of Pettibone.
Ok thanks :)
Quote from: logman81 on January 11, 2012, 04:28:45 PM
Ok thanks :)
You bet ;) I thought I'd save you some legwork, I already figured this stuff out the hard way ::)
Contacted tiffin parts and they have both the parts manual and the service manuals. ;D Pricy but needed if I get the skidder. Thanks Barbender :)
When I contacted Tiffin, I asked for both the service and parts manual and they gave me the impression they were both available, but I was only sent the parts manual. It was about $80 including shipping if I remember correctly. Pretty spendy. So, I don't know if there is actually a service manual available for mine or not.
Oh, and your welcome, Logman ;)
They gave a price for both $175 for the service and $50 for the parts manual very pricy, :o two weeks on the shipping as well. But very much needed to figure out all the proper capacity's for the fluids and specs and to figure out what is missing on the service brakes.
At least get the parts manual to begin with (if you get the skidder), they are well diagrammed and pretty clear. I'll have to check back with them on a service manual.
I'm going to get both of them and yes I'm going to get the skidder know that I can get the manuals for all the specs and stuff. :)
Still waiting for them to get the rad back and get it up and running I guess it takes a long time to fix a radiator. :-\
Logman may be they don't want to deal with it and you can get a better deal as is!!! ;D take it home and fix it!!!! teeter_totter The double edge sord is if they know there is something wrong (spun rod bearing etc)!!! Also might be why they are not moving it forward. smiley_devil_trident
From what the owner has told me is they sent the radiator out for repair he said it looked as if some one had shot at it with a BB gun. >:( He said that once it is up and running that he would call me. It ran perfect when they took out the radiator from what he told me. The motor is supposedly all rebuilt will only a few hours on it. It has a standard fuller transmission are those good? I just don't think it would take three weeks as of today to fix the radiator. :(
Your right, it should not take 3 weeks to repair a radiator. The last one I had repaired was for a 74 International with automatic transmission. Dropped it off late in the afternoon and picked it up the next day at noon. It needed a new core which they did not have in stock. The paint was still wet.
Thanks bill m, ;D I need to go down to the mill and push this along. Everyday that I'm not working is money lost. :(
logman81
Did you get the PM I sent you yesterday? I'm not sure if it went or just vanished.
UN
No UN Hooker I didn't get it. :(
Don't know what to tell you looks like they are stalling, why?? Not sure how to move it along. Dealt with a lot of those next week kind of fellows, never found an effective way to bring them inline. (next week never comes) :o Yes fuller is good.
Order both the parts manual and the service manual today from tiffin they should be here in two weeks. ;D
logman81
PM me your # and I'll call you.
UN ( John )
Just a little up date still no fix yet for the rad their now trying to find a replacement core for it, And now on top of the it's now getting buried in snow and it's not covered. :( Good luck getting the winch to free spool when I finally get to test it out. ::)
Does any one know where I might be able to get a radiator for this skidder. The rad shop is having a tough time finding a core for it. Just trying to help this guy out and get it up and running so we can do this deal soon.
TRY ANOTHER SHOP most buy a core and solder it in using the top bottom tanks. Could be it is some odd size. Are you dealing with a truck industrial shop? What is so bad they cant repair it, to at leat get you buy for awhile. I had one done in a TJ and it was $5-600.
I'm not sure why they are having such a problem getting a replacement core. There is a shop in Ct. that builds cores, standard and custom ones. Try Vista-Pro automotive in Windsor Ct. 860-688-7644
I'm not to sure why they are having such trouble or why it is taking so long? From what I have been told is that it was shot at with what they think was a bb gun. The shop is suppose to be a good one but I'm beginning to doubt them. I would guess that it is a normal size rad but not sure. Thanks bill m I will pass the info on to the owner and try and push this along. ::)
This is one of these post that other get mad at me about :o But could it be owner does not want to spend the money or shop wants money up front? May be shop's account is not paid and they cannot get parts??? ::)
No I don't think it is the owner at all he owns a very respectful local sawmill, so money is not the issue. I'm not sure what exactly is going on but from what I have been recently told is that they were trying to find a replacement core for it.
Buy the way just curious what is the line pull on the winch? And how do you get rid of the rats tail on the end of the cable?
Also I found another rare machine for sale a case 800 with 4-53 turbo. I've only seen a picture of one once never in person so it must rare. The price is cheap but don't know anything about it just saying. :)
Oh boy well case had a couple of good machines and then there was the rest. Some were top heavy and stayed on there top more than the wheels smiley_strange_hat2 Some had mecanical issues and were slow and did not get around good in woods. You used to see case skidders priced very cheap there was a reason for that smiley_devil Also people did not keep them long (Not popular here anyway ) I am sure they had a following someware. The one that worked good was built or desined by another company ;D I would really discourge you from one.
Quote from: logman81 on January 26, 2012, 06:54:23 AM
Also I found another rare machine for sale a case 800 with 4-53 turbo. I've only seen a picture of one once never in person so it must rare. The price is cheap but don't know anything about it just saying. :)
Since i am trashing machines another one to watch out for is Massey ferguson I was around them and they were good machines BUT Only made a few years and parts are a nightmare now (I turned one down a few years ago for that reason) The engine was perkings the real problem is the winch and trany, axles etc. Just wanted to pass that along (I really liked them though) ;D
uote author=logman81 link=topic=54568.msg806865#msg806865 date=1327578863]
Also I found another rare machine for sale a case 800 with 4-53 turbo. I've only seen a picture of one once never in person so it must rare. The price is cheap but don't know anything about it just saying. :)
[/quote]
Why are you trashing machines?
Are you an expert?
No not an expert just passing on what i have seen (hate to see someone get a medicore maching passed on to him) Some of the locals are having trouble getting parts for some machines. quote author=beenthere link=topic=54568.msg807133#msg807133 date=1327622932]
Why are you trashing machines?
Are you an expert?
[/quote]
Ok thanks for the info, It is a newer machine it has a square tube cab and it has the 453 turbo engine. But anyways I guess It would be best to just wait and hold out for the pettibone. How do you fix the fraying on the end of the cable is there something to put on it? What is the line pull for the winch. Just wondering because it only has seven slides and I plan on running ten on it.
Have fun with ten chokers ;D
The guy that use to own it before this guy used to run twelve chokers and most of the time doubled in each one. Most of what I cut is firewood because I supply most of the producers of it in the area so the wood is smaller. I have many guys waiting for me to get the machine and some wood lots to start harvesting tree length I have over five hundred cords that I can sell just need the wood.
Logman if its the maine line there is an end swage to fix it (most tie a knot or use cable clamps) There are special tools but a new maine line might be cheaper faster (about $100-150 in some places) Chokers: easier to replace than fool with. A chop saw angle grinder will cut it. If it the 119 it will handle 10 no problem.
Quote from: logman81 on January 27, 2012, 07:46:53 AM
The guy that use to own it before this guy used to run twelve chokers and most of the time doubled in each one. Most of what I cut is firewood because I supply most of the producers of it in the area so the wood is smaller. I have many guys waiting for me to get the machine and some wood lots to start harvesting tree length I have over five hundred cords that I can sell just need the wood.
I have seen those things it's a two piece design with grooved half's to put the strands of cable into might put that on just want to get rid of frayed end don't fell like getting stabbed by it, the rest of the main line is fine. What I meant by the winch is the pulling power of the winch in lbs. :)
I think barbender meant the bother of 10 chokers,meaning trying to unhook them and getting enough to hook up too,without making a big mess of the woods. I can get into enough mess and saying a few bad words with just 5 on my 3 pt,sometimes.
Last winter I split the top tank on my radiator,pulled it out and took it to my heavy truck mechanic.They sent it to Worchester and it was back in a week with a new 5 core with my tanks sodered onto it.It was only 1027.00 :o .
On the rat tail,tie a new knot past to worst of it hook a chocker to a cut tree and thghten.Then cut the tail off.cutoff wheel works best.
If its a 119 Gearmatic the pull is 40,000 lbs
I always used a figure 8 knot on the end of the main line, it stays tied. I learned that when i was running rigging out west.
How to get rid of the frayed ends on the mainline? If you don't have a cable cutter to cut them off with use a double bit Axe, sink it in a stump, then put the frayed ends on the Axe blade, get a hammer an cut-en off.
If you have none of the above use the fender on the skidder or any corner of iron and cut-en off with a hammer. I've cut the mainline off on the fender of the skidder many times or over a corner on the blade.
I see your talking about running 10 to 12 chockers. I've tried this a couple times, i found my self spending way to much time on tangling chockers. Your going to find out you could have hooked 6 and been half way back from the landing by the time you get them on tangled.
:o only $1027 :o did you have a heart attack when you got the bill? ;D
Quote from: Ed_K on January 27, 2012, 02:25:13 PM
Last winter I split the top tank on my radiator,pulled it out and took it to my heavy truck mechanic.They sent it to Worchester and it was back in a week with a new 5 core with my tanks sodered onto it.It was only 1027.00 :o .
On the rat tail,tie a new knot past to worst of it hook a chocker to a cut tree and thghten.Then cut the tail off.cutoff wheel works best.
Thanks for all the info and comments I'll stick with the seven chokers it's now and see how that works out. Thats big bucks for that rad repair! :o Those gearmatics can pull ;D a lot more that my 3pt can. :D Hey when I finally get it home I plan to get in fully operational condition including getting what I need to have the service brakes working and the micro lock. Also plan to drop the pans and give it a real good power washing and degreasing. I plan on repainting it even the engine I'm anal about having good looking and running equipment. What would be the cheapest and most effective way to remove the old paint and rust from it. Would a DA and a high speed sander work with course sand paper?
Logman: I guess i am the same way on my machines. A good pressure washer and also a wire wheel on a 4 inch angle grinder are at the top of the food chain. Skidders and tractors etc are hard to paint at best. I did about the same to my pettibone when i got it. There is a million products for painting I really don't know where to begin; so a lot of it i just brush paint with rustoleum :o
Quote from: barbender on January 26, 2012, 10:20:45 PM
Have fun with ten chokers ;D
yes it can be. here is how i did it. 3' of heavy pipe weld a 4"x4" x.25" on bolth ends 2 chains 6 to 12" long where you can bolt it to the arch just below the roller. with 10 cables put 5 on one side 4 on the other let the last one drag. when hooking up start with the last one then take the next from behind the pipe. some hook all there cables to back of the skidder. if using the pipe when dropping the winch the slides usualy dont hit the ground so your not lifting them when pulling cable
Yeah I was thinking about doing one section at a time with the high speed sander with 40 grit to get the rust off and all the flaking paint then going over the whole section with the DA with 80 grit until it's all sanded and then panting it in one shot with the paint gun and some paint cans for the hard to reach areas. That's the way a buddy of mine did his back hoe and it came out good. I was also thinking about having some one come and sand blast it at my place but I'm thinking that might be a little pricey and might damage seals and such.
Got some great news! The skidder is getting a brand new radiator and will be up and running by the end of this week and ready for a test drive. ;D It has a 19 winch, I down loaded the manual for it and it says the maximum bare drum line pull is 20,000 lbs. I'll have to fix the service brakes as it is missing the caliper and master cylinder but I don't think it will be to big of a deal to get it back together with new parts from mico and with the help of the new service manuals and the help of the forestry forum members! :)
Sandblasting works the best, but the sand seams to find its way into everything, i would stay away from that.
I'm jealous, looks like your going to have all the fun setting up a new horse. :(
The way we ran rigging, i had something like a 3/4" u-bolt cut in 2 and welded on each side of the arch to hang chockers on.
When you make your first hook, lets say your running 8 chockers, if you hook 3 trees, then hang up the other 5 [ make sure to hang them in order] this way your chockers are free to hook as you go.
Logman81, if you try a wirebrush on an angle grinder,wear welding gloves or the heaviest leather ones you can find.I was wire brushing the rim off of the mf 30 tractor and got the top of my finger,it looks like a bad burn :( .
I painted my skidder with cat yellow,you can use a brush and in a couple of mins the brush strokes disapear.
Yeah it will be a lot of fun and it will help me to understand how it works. I agree that sandblasting would be the best but don't like the fact that sand could force it's way into places I don't want it. But it should turn out very good just by some power sanding and some hand sanding. I do need to make better steps to get into the cab, right now it only has very short cleats, barley enough to get the toe of your boot on it. :o But with a little welding I can make it better and safer. :) I was thinking of running a piece of chain between the inside of the arch and hanging my choker chains on that. I plan on running eight cable slides and chokers that should be enough it's an old machine and I don't want to push it hard.
Just think how exciting it will be to load up all them chokers with wood! That'll be some loggin'! 8)
Thanks for the tip Ed_K I plan on using a couple of different sanders with varying sand paper and possibly a wire wheel. I plan on using equipment yellow and black from valspar I have had very good results with it and it holds up well and I have a HVLP gun to shot it with from when I use to restore cars.
It sure will be it's going to be great to see and old piece of iron restored and put back into service. I have been waiting many years to get a skidder. It sure has been a struggle using a tractor all these years. With all this new found power and capability I don't know what do with it. :D I heard it will really pull, now I will have a machine that can actually pull some logs!
Well what about some pictures??? ;D
I have seen tire tread used as a step too. Moves out of the way better than a piece of metal.
Haven't acquired it yet still waiting for the new radiator to arrive and be put in to take the test drive later this week from what I have been told. 8) I do have some pictures but can't figure out how to do it. I do have some on my FB page shes ugly but wont be when I'm done with it. ;D
I cannot figue how to post pics on these sites either :( Don't want to burst your bubble but smiley_headscratch When i bought my bone I put it in shop and went all throught it I now have what i paid times 2 into it :o All those $50-300 dollar item add up quick!!! ::)
I will make a deal with you guys that can't post pictures. You guys come up and fix my equipment and I'll post the pictures. :D The picture posting is easy. Just take it slow,don't miss a step. I printed off the directions and still had questions.
jocco that is pretty much what I plan to do with it when I get it home. I know I need to get the service brakes reinstalled in it and the micro lock working. Going to look for leaks or hydro lines that could go soon, cracks that need repair didn't see any but there could be. Clean the pans of debris basically look over the entire machine for possible problems and of course change all fluids. And after that give it a new paint job! ;D I have posted pictures on here before but lately have had trouble I'll have to try again some time.
WELL PART OF MY PROBLEM is dial up and a computer that is older than these bone skidders :D Yes fluids should be changed if she has sat for a long time.
Well I'll have to try posting some pictures again once I get it home. I did it once I can figure it out again. Any good tips for test driving it? The manuals should be here soon and I will be doing some heavy reading learning about this old bone! :)
Try to listen for noises in drivetrain, vibration etc We talked about a lot of this in earlier posts remember your not buying a new machine!!!
Ok your right just wondering if their are any ''special" things to test for. I think that it has been well taken care of.
Relax problems will show up soon enough smiley_devil You will hear a big bang and it will be easily fixed buy lots of hard work and a few thousand$$$ teeter_totter Kind of like the average man's first 3 divorce's smiley_devil_trident smiley_jester Good luck
Quote from: jocco on January 27, 2012, 08:56:03 AM
Logman if its the maine line there is an end swage to fix it (most tie a knot or use cable clamps) There are special tools but a new maine line might be cheaper faster (about $100-150 in some places) Chokers: easier to replace than fool with. A chop saw angle grinder will cut it. If it the 119 it will handle 10 no problem.
Quote from: logman81 on January 27, 2012, 07:46:53 AM
The guy that use to own it before this guy used to run twelve chokers and most of the time doubled in each one. Most of what I cut is firewood because I supply most of the producers of it in the area so the wood is smaller. I have many guys waiting for me to get the machine and some wood lots to start harvesting tree length I have over five hundred cords that I can sell just need the wood. i hope i am 1 of those guys on your list of people waiting for tree length ;D 8)
i screwed up that quote job , logman, i hope wen you get rolling i am on your list of tree length customers ;D 8)
Yes you are. ;D I have a lot of guys waiting to buy tree length wood most of them wanting two hundred cords each. Every body seems to be having a hard time finding wood lots to harvest from. I'm trying to get some time to go look at a small five acre lot in Dainelson ct. It's going to be so much better than using the tractor once it's up and running and set up properly. :) Just need to find some good wood lots or get the ones that I have looked at to commit to it.
Great news! a new core was put in it yesterday and she is up and running going down for the test drive later today! ;D
Well we have to much invested in this now we must know the outcome with pictures ;D Rattle rattle clunk clunk :o Don't feel to bad a fellow bought a 540b Deere off his best friend Had it 2 hours and an axle let go and wheel fell off smiley_devil Next tranny went out smiley_devil Than a whole bunch of engine and hydraulic work smiley_devil He only paid $23000 for it :o
Well guys it's at it's new home for a test drive, Engine runs strong but makes me hungry running it because the previous owner ran it on bio diesel. :D Hydro pump is strong pins are pretty tight no strange noise. Their is a small leak in one of the blade cylinders but not to bad the winch does have a leak, pulled the clutch cover off and the o-ring on the swivel is toast. It does have new brake shoes and clutch shoes a little rust in there from not being used but will get it working pretty easy.
Sounds like you may have a keeper, logman81!
Best of luck, I'm pulling for you !!!!!!!!
Hey logman 81, congradulations, hope to see some pics. You mentioned you plan to do a lot of tree length and you work alone. Heads up when your limbing up a twitch. Pretty easy to get a wack or pin a leg. Starting your cuts slow can save you some grief. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/yb_2.jpg)
Thanks guys for all your help I think it will be a decent machine once the little bugs are worked out. I'm sure I will asking more questions as I go through it. Stephen I don't work alone and never will this work is far to dangerous to work alone. I have a guy that works for me and keeps an eye on me. :) I usually do all my limbing in the woods and slashing it up before hitching up a twitch But I do know what you mean.
Syephen,that looks just like my back field. Has a slight rise in the middle.
Good on the machine you do know there is a gland cup as well as o ring on some modles right?
Quote from: logman81 on February 04, 2012, 05:08:41 PM
Well guys it's at it's new home for a test drive, Engine runs strong but makes me hungry running it because the previous owner ran it on bio diesel. :D Hydro pump is strong pins are pretty tight no strange noise. Their is a small leak in one of the blade cylinders but not to bad the winch does have a leak, pulled the clutch cover off and the o-ring on the swivel is toast. It does have new brake shoes and clutch shoes a little rust in there from not being used but will get it working pretty easy.
Yes I di but I didn't see one just the o ring.
Is their a special o ring or can I just get one from napa?
It's basically the same problem treefarmer87 has but without the metal pitting, a little rust and a mouse nest. :D The rest of it is dry just leaks where the swivel goes into the gland cap.
Quote from: logman81 on February 05, 2012, 09:19:13 AM
Is their a special o ring or can I just get one from napa?
It is a packing gland seal Should be inside the 4 allen bolt part I can give you a supplier if needed. Doubt napa can help. Might be wize to convert it to live swivle there has been many post on here about doing so.
I have seen the post about it it's the O-ring on the line going into the part where the allen bolts go. I haven't gotten any farther than that. I would think that Napa would have the O-ring it's a common size. ;)
I always had desalinated limbing piles, my wood lots looked like a park. I worked right with the skidder, planed every twitch, helped hook chockers. Then walked out ahead of the skidder to the limbing and toping area i had chosen. When the skidder came back the operator would push the limbs/tops in a pile. I tried to keep slash piles with in 50 yards of my felling. If you fell head of the skidder and let him fend for him self you will only get half the twiches out per day. The Federal, State, and especially the land owners loved my logging methods. I've been on wood lots deer hunting that i couldn't walk through.
My goal was 10x10, that is 10 twiches by 10 AM, coffee time.
logman81 make sure to always hook chockers from the right hand side, if you hook both ways the chockers turn in to coil springs.
I would convert that to a live swivel now in stead of later. About $75. now, when you lose 2 days because it started leaking again [ cost wise $$$ :o ]
Yes jocco I'm going to need the parts suppliers info but in the mean time I'm going to contact Paccar and see what can be done to fix it.
Hey guys stupid question but what type of engine oil should I use? Does any one know the oil and fuel filter numbers? 8)
Quote from: logman81 on February 06, 2012, 06:23:29 PM
Hey guys stupid question but what type of engine oil should I use? Does any one know the oil and fuel filter numbers? 8)
detriot? 40# unless its real cold then 30# texaco used to make ursa ed just for the 2 strokes think mobil still dose
After much debate on another thread here concerning straight weight versus multi viscosity oils, I just put Rotella 15w40 in my 353. No ill effects yet ::) As far as filters, you'll have to get the numbers off of yours, Detroits used a lot of different filters.
I got another question whats involved in changing the fuel filters. ???
When you take the canister off make sure the old gasket comes off with it. With the canister off, take a look at the canister holder on the motor, you'll see where the new gasket goes back up in a little grove. I used to put grease up in and around in it to hold the new gasket in place. The bolt all so has a seal on it, replace that to. Clean the canister out, put the new filter in, fill it full of fuel. Now when bolting back up, watch the new gasket, make sure it stays straight, tighten up. [ start motor ]
I changed one at a time, starting motor in between to make sure of no air leak.
Thanks lumberjack48 sounds good so their is no special bleeding procedure just make sure the gaskets stay in place got it. :)
If the weather stays above 0-F i would run straight 30 weight oil, low ash, Detroit spec.
Colder weather i used 15-40 for easier starting.
Logman. You will have to get the numbers for filters you can change them to spin on there is a kit. What i do is start engine warm her up then change filter. (fill canisters with diesel) then start her again (may cough a bit ) Start looking at internet sites that sell stuff you can get awsome deals on some of this. Shoot me a PM or email for the parts info. Yes old detroits used 30 wt big debate on using newer oils who knows?
Thanks guys for the help. I gave it the first oil change and used 40 wt it's pretty warm here so I think it will be fine. Next I plan to change the fuel filters. :) So far so good!
Is it normal for a Detroit to smoke a little at idle? It's blowing lite blue smoke out the exhaust when it's idling and seams to have a bit of a lope in the idle.
Logman detroit is a 2 stroke diesel I grew up with them and they have many inherent quirks. Buy a manual and good luck. You could have injector trouble probably needs the timing set up and rack/valves adjusted. I STRONGLY RECOMEND YOU GET A GOOD DETROIT MAN TO DO THIS. hERE ARE A FEW QUIRKS I DEALT WITH: low oil pressure for years :o Wet stacking out the exhast. "oil seeks it own level" >:( Some would start in very cold wx some would not even at +50 ::) Air bound fuel systems Somewere easy to fix some took forever. Blower and head problem leading to engine roll and scavaging Governaor issues You will have fun with it but it will test you to the limit :) DON'T GET TO SHOOK UP IF SHE RUNS GOOD AND A GOOD DETROIT MAN IS SCARCE THESE DAYS ALMOST NO ONE WILL WORK ON THEM AROUND HERE.
Quote from: logman81 on February 08, 2012, 11:31:43 AM
Is it normal for a Detroit to smoke a little at idle? It's blowing lite blue smoke out the exhaust when it's idling and seams to have a bit of a lope in the idle.
A little smoke is fine at idle, don't let it dead idle very long, it will wash the cylinders clean of oil. When warming up in the morning always set idle up. Make sure oil pressure is up, then set throttle about 800 to 1000 RPM, so it sounds smooth.
This is what the throttles for, set it up a little to take the lope out of it, sounds like the idle set slow.
You can have somebody out and run the rack and set the gov. , get a book and do it yourself, theres a little t like tool you need to set the rack, and a feeler gauge to set valves, basically simple.
I spent 36 yrs with a Detroit, treated me better then any woman I've been with. :D
Thanks again guys. ;D The oil pressure at currant idle is 35 psi and when given some throttle she goes right to about 60 psi. I do agree that the idle is to slow, when I give it a little throttle the lope goes away so might just need a little idle adjustment. I think I might as well have the valves checked to just to be sure but other than that it runs good.
Heres what Detroit tune up kit looks like. Theres a Snap-on kit on EB, this is for changing injectors, setting rack, and ajusting valves, if you own a Detroit this is nice to have. Thats good oil pressure, the highest i've had hot is 40#
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/tune-up1_28229.jpg)
Quote from: logman81 on February 08, 2012, 01:14:51 PM
Thanks again guys. ;D The oil pressure at currant idle is 35 psi and when given some throttle she goes right to about 60 psi. I do agree that the idle is to slow, when I give it a little throttle the lope goes away so might just need a little idle adjustment. I think I might as well have the valves checked to just to be sure but other than that it runs good.
the lope at idle is buffer screw adjustment. 35psi at idle? cant be 5 to 10 psi at idle 550rpm is normal. like was said everyone thinks they know best when it comes to oil. my detriot tech manual says 40# summer 30# winter. the reasom being the cylinder liners have holes in them the intake ports ya like your chainsaw. they do not have intake valves only exhaust. isnt a bad idear to put a fuel pressure guadge in. just use a oil pressure guadge plumed into the secondary fuel filter should be a pipe plug already there. 10 at idle 65 psi wide open. the releif opens at 65. this way you know if there is a fuel restriction or filters need changing. dont lug it it sounds like its in pain cause its a 2 stroke.......let it scream
What logman and snow storm said are very correct. I am afraid that tool set now would cost what the skidder sold for ;D n45 was a common injector for 353 NOW ON THE GOVERNOR PLEASE DON'T GO INTO THIS BLIND HAVE THE BOOK OR PAY FOR SOME HELP smiley_devil WHY I AM SAYING THIS IS A LOT CAN GO WRONG LIKE ON THE RACK AND THE ENGINE CAN RUN AWAY :o aLSO WATCH THE BLOWER AND SEALS AND IF IN DOUBT GET SOME HELP. Help may be hard buy there must be some old truck or boat mechanic that knows detroits doubt it will be a young kid fresh out of school teeter_totter THE OLD MANUALS FOR THEM IS 2-3 INCHES THICK SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF READING TO DO!!! yOU DO KNOW ABOUT THE STOP ON THE BLOWER??? MAKE SURE IT IS HOOKED UP THATS IMPORTANT IF SHE DID RUN AWAY (OVERSPEED) help_me i AM TRYING TO HELP YOU WHAT LITTLE I CAN AS THERE WAS TIMES I HAD TO GO ALONE.
lUMBERJACK IT SCARES ME TO DEATH TO SEE SOME ONE JUMP SQUARE INTO ONE OF THESE!!! hE MUST BE QUITE AMBITIOUS. dON'T KNOW IF I WOULD WANT TO GO THROUGH WHAT A FRIEND DID. Service WWII, new engines and they peaked his curiosity 12/16 cylinder detroits went on to be the paper company head mechanic for skidders trucks and cranes COUL REBUILD ONE IN HIS SLEEP ;D Later years when one was in trouble he could run but not hide ;D He never did have to look for work.
Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 08, 2012, 04:32:44 PM
Heres what Detroit tune up kit looks like. Theres a Snap-on kit on EB, this is for changing injectors, setting rack, and ajusting valves, if you own a Detroit this is nice to have. Thats good oil pressure, the highest i've had hot is 40#
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/tune-up1_28229.jpg)
when i went to tech school in the 70's they told us that if a detriot ran away it could blow a cement block wall down if the truck was close to it. another thing to watch out for is stalling it sometimes it will cause it to run backwards. when it dose it can run on engine oil. one of the reasons for a air shutoff
jocco there not that hard to work on, i put my own injectors in. I was running N-50's in my S8. I had a book, all step by step pictures.
I've had'em run away, this can happen running out of fuel. If injector sticks it can run away, blower gave up she ran away. 36 yrs i thing i've had 4 run aways.
Your air shut off has to be hooked up or you could loss a motor.
I had one run backwards, my dad was going up a hill, he powered out and rolled back wards, the motor started running backwards, it had a oil bath air cleaner. It was blowing oil all over, i finely got him to shut it off.
Don't get scared of a Detroit, there just a big Ole poor mans Diesel.
[$139. for the tool kit [
Lumberjack48 that looks like a nice kit probably pricy though. The higher oil pressure might be do to the engine stll being a little cool but I did just change the oil and filter. Snowstorm you say it is the buffer screw that needs adjusting? Not sure what that is I'm new to the Detroit's. :D I am however very familiar with two stroke as I used to race motor cross many years ago and rebuilt my fair share of two stroke engines. I do know that it's not good to let the Detroit's idle to long and that they like to rev just feels a little odd letting it scream like that. :o I greatly appreciate every body's help so much. :) I think it would be best to get my mechanic to help me get her it tip top running shape. ;D
Is the air shut off the emergency shut off switch?
a detriot converts noise into motion!!!! 8)
yes!!
my 353 smokes just as much out the blow by tube as it does the exhaust. lol!!!! 8) :D
yeah they do but this one is quite. :)
Shes a smoker than! :D
Order the winch parts they will be here wednesday hope it fixes it! ;)
lumberjack48 where do you get that kit?
This stuff is all new to me but I will know a lot once it's finished I need all the help I can get. :D
I too have operated lots of equipment with a detriot in them 453 is a popular model 4 cyd 53 cubic in a good repair manual :P is all you need and the rack gauge never put oil in it till its low the first half will blow out after idling always throutle up slowly to blow the cylinders clean then run pretty much wide open like a saw It's a two stroke.
Thanks for the tip Migal. ;)
You are very correct and i have seen all this and more happen!!! :o
Quote from: snowstorm on February 08, 2012, 07:53:59 PM
when i went to tech school in the 70's they told us that if a detriot ran away it could blow a cement block wall down if the truck was close to it. another thing to watch out for is stalling it sometimes it will cause it to run backwards. when it dose it can run on engine oil. one of the reasons for a air shutoff
Logman look at the blower there is a tab with a small lever this should have a cable (Same idea as a fuel shut off cable) to the cab. It shuts the air off and is an emergency device. You reset it buy hand there is a spring on it. (the unit may very a bit buy applicaton) >:( A popular game years ago was to trip this on some one smiley_devil to see if they could fixit. There is a pin in the fuel pump too ;D In the service a kid failed because i tripped the shut off and he did not know about it. smiley_devilish We took the pin out of the transpher pump and they could not figure that one out (engine not run) end of day i gave it to the EO, "he told us not to do that again teeter_totter Buffer screw: I backed it way out and they could not get her to run EO found it and fixed it smiley_devilish These were qulification drills for diesel men ;D (a few had to repeat it)
Quote from: logman81 on February 08, 2012, 09:06:25 PM
Is the air shut off the emergency shut off switch?
Logman: might want to mount a couple fire extingusers in the cab. Popular trick is to put one on fire wall pointing to engine area. If a problem happens you can discharge it (give you some time to get side panels, hood up etc.) :)
Here's a trick for fuel line/air in fuel lines etc. Get a plumbing cap that fits the tank, drill and tap ( or braze or weld in a fitting) to fit a tire valve. Now you can pressurize your fuel tank SLIGHTLY <10psi, block off the vent too.
Jocco I do plan to mount a fire extinguisher in the cab, All the guys around here have at least one in the cab. I will check for the tab on the blower I did see the emergency switch in the cab with a cable connected to it. Hopefully the other end is connected to the blower.
logman81 that kit is on ebay, type Detroit tuneup kit. The thing is you don't need the whole kit, it covers all Detroit motors. All you need is the tool to set N-45 injectors, and a feeler gauge to set exhaust valves. [Napa has injector tool]
The buffer, idle adjustment is on the governor. A book will show you all this.
Dry run your emergency shut off to make sure its working properly. Start the motor, then pull the shut off, to make sure it kills the motor. [ real simple to reset ] Never run the motor with out this working.
The biggest fire hazard on a Detroit is the top of the exhaust manifold. Its a catch all, little twigs, pine, fir, needles, the hottest part of the motor. Take a look and you'll see what i mean, [Keep it clean ] I've had it on fire a few times, if i wouldn't have had a fire extinguisher it would have burned up.
Thanks lumberjack48 I did see the kit on there. I'm going to have my mechanic adjust the valves and such we me over his shoulder watching for the first one. The emergency shut off cable is connected to the supercharger and the cable does move a little stiff but does move I'll lube it with some cable lube I'll test it when I fire it up the next time I start it. I do see what you mean by the manifold a bad spot for stuff to get sit. The machine is pretty clean but will be giving it a good pressure washing before paint. Got to fix all the small leaks and missing bolts first fun times! :D
Heres what a Detroit runaway sounds like, he was lucky he had a rag laying there to shove in to the blower.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NRaqgab0_w
The emergency switch does work, cable is hard to pull and it did not completely shut down the engine. ???
It should kill the motor, it must not be closing all the way, work it by hand down on the motor, open and close it, it should work freely, or maybe the spring is weak.
Ok I'll check it out further, seems to me it just needs to be worked free.
Having a little trouble finding the service manual for the engine. I did find some on diesel service pro for $280 bucks :o.
Logman check ebay and those other aution book sites Thats what i do for old books have had fair luck pennies on the dollar ;D
Thanks jocco I made an offer on one on ebay. :)
The offer was accepted and the manual is on it's way. ;D
See some on there for 9-11 dollars 8) maby it was the starting bid at auction.
Yes jocco I purchased one from there and it is on it's way. ;) Also biding on the tool kit too.
Well my boy: friend told me to use a snipper program and bid at last minite. Do not get to wound up in those auctions as most of the time they keep reapearing. Off season is a good time to buy (ie: a weed trimmer in the winter)
I know money is tight but buy good tools from big names (use the cheap junk) for like tool box on skidder where if it get lost your ok.NEXT. WATCH EVIL BAY ;D for stuff like filters starters, engine parts. You can buy some of this for pennies on the dollar. And i would advise you to stock up!!!! (cup of coffee on rainy day can yield lots of info) It is a tax deduction too ;D
Okay guys I'm going to try and take a little vid of it running and try and post it on youtube today so you can see it and hear it run. ;D
All very true jocco I never buy junk non name brand tools I believe in the old saying you get what you pay for. Yes once in awhile you can find a good deal and the last minute bidding has worked very well for me in the past. :)
Your detroit 353/453 cyl head: :o The valve cover usually has cork gasket use lots of "indian head gasket sealer" and tighten it down good generally screws. Remember what the guy said on here about those digital/laser theremometer to check each exhaust port ;D Next when you pull the cover, if four valve head your injector is in the middle Let her set over night when you take the valve cover off look at the fuel crossover tubes if the are not oil soked and washed clean there is a fuel leak. Needs fixing. Now get a large screw driver and start her push down on the middle injector and it will cut the cylinder out tells you if she is fireing. DON'T BE AFAID OF THIS ;D THIS IS AND OLD TRICK THAT WENT BACK TO WWII ON BIG POWER MARINE/DOZER ENGINES. i DO still remember 6-110's (giant 6-71) and 16-149 marine engines Quite the sound at full throttle smiley_devil
Quote from: logman81 on February 11, 2012, 07:08:12 AM
Yes jocco I purchased one from there and it is on it's way. ;) Also biding on the tool kit too.
I only have dial up so cannot do you u tube. :(
Quote from: logman81 on February 11, 2012, 08:05:15 AM
Okay guys I'm going to try and take a little vid of it running and try and post it on youtube today so you can see it and hear it run. ;D
Ok guys a vid is posted to youtube type in Pettibone master 15. :)
Pretty nice old bone you got there logman81! 8) engine sounds solid. The wood will be moving fast in no time :)
Thanks mad murdock it seems to be well taken care of. New parts for the winch will be here Wednesday the bearing and the O ring and the cup were shot, that what was causing the clutch leak and winching. :( A little surface rust but plan to give it a paint job once all the leaks are fixed. ;D
Sounds good and looks like it could be ready to go to work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu0aLucKZ-c&feature=player_embedded
Nice
Its in nice shape, motor sounds 100%
Thanks guys for all the nice complements I think it will be a nice skidder once it's all fixed up. ;D
Nice,very nice. Thanks for taking the effort to post. Not trying to tell you what to do, but having looked at the braces for your fairlead you might want to run a slack chain from the top of the cab to the top of the fairlead. This will stop a tree from slamming on your shafts. Also gives you something to hang unto when climbing around, look forward to some pics of her hauling. Personally I like the looks of a 20 pounder abc fire extinguisher, its a hoot to pull the pin and let em rip at some flames should you have that happen, heavens forbid. ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12754/Bird_buddy.jpg)
nice ride!!! 8) did jimmy give you a set of chains with it? im tryin to guess what size the tires are. let me know i will see what is around. if i find a set i will text you, or if you want give me a call.
Thanks a old timberjack ;) No Jimmy didn't have any chains for it. Tires are the 23.1x26 very stable machine. Not sure yet if I want to run chains if I did only on the front. Probably the multi rings if I did. Don't like the rough ride single rings give to rough! :o and it also has full lock axles so on sharp corners it wood really tare up the woods. Heard of any wood lots up for bid lately?
I just measured the main line and it is only 9/16'' cable I plan to replace with a new as this one is rather short 50'. Is this size cable strong enough for this machine?
You should be ok with 9/16 or 5/8 with a little common sence. Some small machines run 1/2. 75-100 feet is good be very carfull with these long cables you can get in trouble quick. They always knott up in the middle so you end up with 2 50 foot pieces :o There is some cable that kinks up because it is made to be under tension all the time. Do your homework.
Around here we liked to chain all 4 wheels. You have got to have some give in those rearends or something would break. i HIGHLY DOUBT YOU HAVE POSI LOCK ALL THE TIME ON BOTH AXLES. Ring chains may be most popular You probably can find used ones and make em fit if your handy with cutting/welding. NEW CHAINS ARE STEEP $$$$ :o iF you do not want an aggressive chain cross link (like for truck or small tractor) would work but might be hard to find and wear out quick. Heck go to a chain dealer and buy 2 sets of 11/8 wire diameter rings (3 inch caulks) at $3000 per set :o you will be good to go smiley_devil
Quote from: logman81 on February 12, 2012, 07:12:30 AM
Thanks a old timberjack ;) No Jimmy didn't have any chains for it. Tires are the 23.1x26 very stable machine. Not sure yet if I want to run chains if I did only on the front. Probably the multi rings if I did. Don't like the rough ride single rings give to rough! :o and it also has full lock axles so on sharp corners it wood really tare up the woods. Heard of any wood lots up for bid lately?
I ran a 100' of 9/16 mainline with 1/2 chockers.
When i logged plantation Pine, i ran 100' of 1/2" mainline, with 7/16 chokers.
After all the yrs of running skidder, put chains on the front, it makes life a lot easier.
If not chains, load the the tires, if your going to be working a lot of steep ground i would load all 4 tires. A skidder feels like its glued to the ground with loaded wheels.
My fathers C5 had wheel weights on the inside of the back rims.
I hope somebody didn't weld the spider gears. I knew a guy that did this to his Timberjack, it was a tough one to steer, lets say it didn't work the way he thought it was going to.
ok 100' of 9/16 it is. :) The axles are locked I know this because both front and rear tires are skidding on inside turns trying to turn at the same speed as the out side ones. Not sure if their welded.
Cheapest price I have found so far for chains is right around $1400 for 5/8 multi rings from tirechains.com.
Quote from: logman81 on February 12, 2012, 12:20:31 PM
ok 100' of 9/16 it is. :) The axles are locked I know this because both front and rear tires are skidding on inside turns trying to turn at the same speed as the out side ones. Not sure if their welded.
logman this doesn't sound good, something isn't right with the axles. I would think with a heavy drag something has to give, like a axle or twist a drive line off.
You don't need chains right away, let the skidder earn them. You can make your own cross link chains up, chain, welder and hard surface rod.
Logman81, 13 pages of free tips and advice on this topic and still no pictures? I'm crying foul ;D I'll go check out youtube I guess ::)
You might want to look at this most have a locker but it allows some slipage on corners. There is a test for this, also it can break planetaries etc. :o Can happen when the locker fails too :o What type of axels??
Quote from: logman81 on February 12, 2012, 12:20:31 PM
ok 100' of 9/16 it is. :) The axles are locked I know this because both front and rear tires are skidding on inside turns trying to turn at the same speed as the out side ones. Not sure if their welded.
Lumberjack I could be wrong as I haven't driven it much I'll know better once I get it up and running. The axles are pettibone special design heavy duty logging axles that is what the manual says with no spins. I don't plan to run chains if I don't have to I would rather let the tires slip a little and save the drive line components. I agree let the machine earn them. :) barbender I have tried to post pics but it wont let me for some reason so I gave up on it. It's always better to see and hear a skidder with a Detroit in action. :D I hope to have it fully operational by next Thursday will see, I'll take more vids of it then.
Log man: when machine is cold and oil is thick if you hear a loud snap that is the sound that the locker has problems (inside differencial) it is binding up. Next put it against a stump, easy and push one wheel should slip some no noises. 3rd jack her up and turn the wheels if you are very easy you can get one to slip or the other to turn backwards you can also feel it catch and spin both wheels. Hope this helps my bone has clark axles/drivelines. Unless some one has tinkered it or it has had problems i doubt there is anything wrong. ;D These are a lot different than a tractor. Also if it was locked up it would not corner or steer hardly at all. Deere had a foot operated locker and it could be used in a strait pull only good luck
Quote from: logman81 on February 12, 2012, 02:57:50 PM
Lumberjack I could be wrong as I haven't driven it much I'll know better once I get it up and running. The axles are pettibone special design heavy duty logging axles that is what the manual says with no spins. I don't plan to run chains if I don't have to I would rather let the tires slip a little and save the drive line components. I agree let the machine earn them. :) barbender I have tried to post pics but it wont let me for some reason so I gave up on it. It's always better to see and hear a skidder with a Detroit in action. :D I hope to have it fully operational by next Thursday will see, I'll take more vids of it then.
When I drove it there were no strange noises. It seem to turn just fine guess I'm just not used to this setup. :D
Ok did not want to offend you but these are much different than a tractor etc ;D (I love to see a new operator) on a TJ, TF or my pettibone as they steer with a stick :) Good luck you are getting a lot of knowledge on here 8)
ote author=logman81 link=topic=54568.msg814688#msg814688 date=1329093251]
When I drove it there were no strange noises. It seem to turn just fine guess I'm just not used to this setup. :D
[/quote]
:D I'm new to the bone but have used a lot of skidders in the past mostly Deere. Mine is also a stick steer kind of in a strange place but I'll get used to it. I greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge all of you have given me on this subject. ;D
knowledge is power :D
Something else to check, make sure your steering stick is pulling the control valve all the way open to the left and to the right. It takes a little bit of ware on the linkage and it don't open all the way.
logman you were probably setting still when you noticed it drag the inside tire, this is normal.
Yes the steering stick is pulling the valve open all the way I re pinned both the steering stick and the blade control yesterday no more slop in them. ;D Yes that is what I saw the inside tire was skidding.
Got the operators manual in the mail today. ;D It says that the buffer screw needs a adjustment that is why it has a little roll at idle easy fix. :)
Quote from: logman81 on February 12, 2012, 08:41:51 AM
I just measured the main line and it is only 9/16'' cable I plan to replace with a new as this one is rather short 50'. Is this size cable strong enough for this machine?
take all your slides off and go to cable works in putnam ct. 20 min. from my house. i run 5/8 swedge. they will put all your slides on, crimp the ball on the end, spool it up so its going the right way to spool it on. wen your done the slides are hanging off the back of your machine. thats where everybody goes to get cable. just tell them its 4 a skidder and you are all set. i run 75ft. i put a new 1 on this summer and it was around 137.00 $ ISH + OR - EXIT 95 OFF 395 in the ind. park
Thanks that where I am going. :D
Got the new cable today for it. Went with 75' of 5/8'' swedge. Now just need the parts for the winch and will be up and running. ;D
Try to make sure you hook your twitch's straight with that swedge cable or it will turn in to a coil spring.
I ran swedge line a couple times, it was twice as hard to work with as regular cable. This was my experience with it after 30 yrs. of running line. A 5/8 swedge cable with 9/16 chockers, sorry but i never needed that heavy of rigging here in MN.
I got the swedge cable because it reduces fair lead ware and it was at a good price. Advice taken. ;)
Yes a coil spring describes it well ;D
Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 15, 2012, 12:48:14 PM
Try to make sure you hook your twitch's straight with that swedge cable or it will turn in to a coil spring.
I ran swedge line a couple times, it was twice as hard to work with as regular cable. This was my experience with it after 30 yrs. of running line. A 5/8 swedge cable with 9/16 chockers, sorry but i never need that heavy of rigging here in MN.
Yes a bit springy but keep it straight and it should be fine.
Whats hard on the fair lead is carrying the drag to high up in the arch. My S8 was 20 yrs old when i sold it, the fair lead showed very little ware.
That was one of the first things i would have to break a new skidder driver of, winching the chocker bells over the spool.
I hope you get the winch parts soon, so you can get up an pulling wood.
Well logman i made 2 skides of fire wood to day with my 65 bone ;D She went well :) Unless you got big wood i like the 7/16 chockers they seem to bite better. Your welcome to your sedge cable i am not fond of it. >:(
I try to keep the drag as low as possible just high enough to keep it from snagging on a stump or rock. I hope as well that I will be up and running soon too. 8) jocco you need to get some pics or vid of your bone I would like to see it. As far as the cable goes that is what was recommended by several local loggers in the area. Glad to here that your bone is working well I too like the smaller chokers.
I hated new chockers, they don't stay hooked, but then i found a way to fix them. I hooked them right behind the ball on the pickup hitch. Then winch it up tight, one at a time. It makes a little kink at the nobe, no more unhooking or sliding off the end of the tree. It doesn't bother the way they slide under the tree.
I used 1/2" or 7/16"
Logman click on my handle and you can send a message. I left one for you on a good supplier. I can email a picture or email one to a persone who can post one here. My internet is still dial up. Leave me an email address. As for the chockers/main line for your area.
what ever works best
Quote from: logman81 on February 15, 2012, 05:05:17 PM
I try to keep the drag as low as possible just high enough to keep it from snagging on a stump or rock. I hope as well that I will be up and running soon too. 8) jocco you need to get some pics or vid of your bone I would like to see it. As far as the cable goes that is what was recommended by several local loggers in the area. Glad to here that your bone is working well I too like the smaller chokers.
Very well said ;D
Quote from: lumberjack48 on February 15, 2012, 06:09:44 PM
I hated new chockers, they don't stay hooked, but then i found a way to fix them. I hooked them right behind the ball on the pickup hitch. Then winch it up tight, one at a time. It makes a little kink at the nobe, no more unhooking or sliding off the end of the tree. It doesn't bother the way they slide under the tree.
I used 1/2" or 7/16"
Looking forward to seeing those pics jocco. ;D
Hey if anyone wants a parts and service manual for a Pettibone Master 15-A I have one. I bought it from tiffin parts but they sent me the wrong one. When I asked what I should do with it they told me keep it or throw it away. Can't bring myself to throw it away so if someone wants it let me know. They are sending the correct one to me so I don't need this one.
Winch parts came today! ;D Just need to follow up with the machine shop and hope they found the part they lost other wise I'll have to order a new one and wait longer. >:(
Have all the winch parts finally and will be putting it back together tonight and hopefully it will be all fixed. :)
Well guys shes up and running pulling wood winch works well ;D. I would like thank all of you so much for helping me out and getting her set up. :) Only thing it needs now is the pins and bushings on the blade where it connects to the machine and it needs a planetary seal in the right rear it has a bit of a weep. :( I will try to take some more vids and pics of it in the next couple of days.
Glad it went well :D You will always have some tinkering to do to it ::)
Thanks jocco it will gradually be 100% again. As you would expect it needs center pins and bushings, pins for the blade a planetary seal and little odd and ends but these are all things that can be done over time. But it does pull very well as is. :)
Any one know what type of lubricant should be in the transmission it's a standard Fuller 5 spd. I can't even fined where to check the level on it or where to fill it. ???
Any guess? 80-90? 30w?
fill and check the same plug if its a truck trans.........90w.plug should be on the side
Logman, I remember the outfit I bought my Pettibone from said it was a real bear finding that plug, and I don't know where it is. I'd say 80-90 on the tranny lube, just a guess.
Thanks snowstorm and bardender 80-90 it is. I did some searching and found a plug on the right side of the trans. ;D But unfortunately I have to take the battery out to get at it. ::)
:D I bet in the owner's manual it suggests checking that daily too! 8)
Not sure if it says that because I haven't received the right manual yet. Found the plug and checked it and thank fully it was full. :D But it was a pain in the but to get to it I had to go through the side of the belly pan and reach up and take the plug out. It will be even harder to fill it when it's time to change it. :(
Well got some bad news the winch is leaking again! >:( I was working it the other day pulling some firewood at my place and noticed the rear section was wet from something. Upon further inspection I notice it was coming from the clutch side of the winch, it was brake fluid. :( So I took both covers off pulled the swivel joint and found that the o ring was chewed up again! So I went and replaced the o ring and reassembled it and went back to work for a few more hours. Then notice it start leaking again this afternoon. Another torn o ring. ??? I guess I didn't fix the problem that would have been to easy if it was just a o ring. So I will have to go and order the field conversion kit for it and replace the bad out dated parts with that. I was hoping to not have to do that but it has to get fixed. Other then needing center pins, blade pins, and the out side steering pins it has been a good machine so far. :)
Get a live swivel, about a $100. repair, you'll be good to go.
Ive heard about that but not to sure how to do it the winch is all original, Has the single bearing setup.
Thats a Gearmatic 19 winch ?
Yes early model 19
The piece with the 4 bolts is what the swivel screws in to. It was to be tapped out, the swivel is left hand threads. I got mine from Napa, its a simple fix, this is what it looks like.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/pLV1501C.jpg)
Ok I'll have to take a look and see what I can do.
logman you'll have to remodel the out side cover, i took a piece off a old drive shaft and extended it out to cover the swivel. You won't have any trouble, i think your remodel fixer upper, a little cutting and welding. I painted mine up like new.
A few different fittings to hook it up.
Not sure I want to get in to all that but I'll keep that in mined. I'm going to call the place were I got the parts last time and see how much for the conversion kit.
I had Napa make up a hyd line, from the swivel to the master control, one long line. It had been on the skidder 11 yrs with out a problem.
In this pic from right to left, the second one over, thats the end that went on the swivel with one more fitting.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/Hydraulic_Hose_Assembly.jpg)
Thanks lumberjack48 I'm just not sure I want to go into all the fabrication stuff. I'll get a price for the conversion kit and go from there. I think I may try to find a place that will have faster shipping two weeks is to long! 8)
It took me about two hrs to modify the tear drop cover. Theres no big modifying to do.
Take the gland cap off, the piece with 4 Allen screws, the center hole in the gland cap has to be taped out for the swivel to screw in to [ left hand threads]
I took the swivel and the cap in to a shop and had it done, this is the only machinist work.
Once the gland cap is taped out for the swivel, put it back together, hook up controller line, bleed air out, your in business.
Ok that sound pretty easy I'll look at it closer. I think the trick is to fined the shortest swivel to fit under the cover if possible. Is there a way to measure the distance from existing swivel to the inside of the tear drop cover to determine how much clearance I have? Maybe some sort of clay or something like that would work.
Take a straight edge lay it across the tear drop cover to see how much you have there. Then where the tear drop cover bolts on the winch cover, put the straight edge across that and measure to the gland cup. Should do it, if you understand my lingo.
You'll have to put the main cover back on the winch with a couple bolts holding it.
Logman81 what LJ48 is 'splainin' is exactly what was on my gearmatic 8A when I bought my machine, 'cept on the 8A the "live" swivel sticks out the cover on the outside, and passes through the gland nut hole to screw into the modified gland fitting on the inside. Mebbe it ends up being the same on the 9? LJ48?
I understand what your saying, on my 19 i pulled the gland off, taped gland for swivel, put gland back on with a little gasket cement, screwed swivel into gland, put big cover back on winch, hook up controller line to swivel [bleed air out] Then see how much you need to modify tear drop cover to protect swivel.
I C what you are saying, you fabbed a little cover to protect the swivel. I need to do that, because I wiped my swivel off the winch this last fall, cutting a tree and it brushed the back and side of the skidder a tad, wiped off the fitting, and I couldn't find it. I need to replace mine, and I will make a deflector guard of some sort to protect that so it won't happen again.
I put it back together, took my tear drop cover and cut a hole in it, the control line went out in the same place. [ this doesn't mean yours will ] Then figured how much i needed to add on to cover swivel safely, nothing can touch it , it was to be completely free under the cover. I cut a piece off an old car drive shaft, after i got it welded together and a little paint, looked like factory job.
I understand I'll see what I can think up to fix it. ;)
Well decide while waiting to get the winch fixed that I would start giving it a face lift. So started to sand her down from the top down and paint it a section at a time. She is starting to look real nice. ;D
After a lot of power washing to remove all the old grease and grime and a lot of sanding it is ready for paint! ;D And the winch parts will be here at end of week. It has given me a chance to look over the machine and understand what makes it tick. And I also got my first job scheduled for it once it's finished, 35 acres of tree length hardwood to cut.
I'm glad you got a good look at that Ole girl. This will help you down the road if things go bad [hope not] you know what i mean.
A patch of timber like that is prefect for you to learn all the tricks to running your new machine. I sure wish i was there to help you out with your new ball game. If i remember right your wife drove the tractor, you and your wife would make a good team with this skidder.
I've tried it all, the best income i had [take home] was when the wife and me worked together. I would put my wife against any man on a cable skidder with a good feller. NO-NO I'm not barging or talking out my butt, shes that good, I've seen her make 6 twiches an hour [36 trees] she ran a C5-D, 5 yrs, then the S8 IH, 10 yrs, she's standing here, she says she loves the smell of an Ole Detroit and the whine of the motor. Yes she has logging fever, you never get over it.
I love it Lumberjack48, maybe she can come over to highway 46 country and take my Pettibone for a spin sometime just for old times sake ;)
Barbender, we'll be up in that part of the woods one of these days. I'll let you know when were up there, i'm about 40 miles away. She'd love to road test your skidder.
Thanks lumberjack48 I have been learning a lot about this old girl. ;D Yeah that patch of timber will be a nice easy job to learn on. The word is spreading fast that I got a new beast! I just got another job yesterday a sixty acre lot that a friend of mine has. Ones he heard I got a skidder he want's me to cut his lot. Everything 8'' and up is going to be cut. :) Yes my wife has been with me since the beginning, she used to hop on my tractor and do the skidding and I did the falling. She is a hard worker a better worker than some of the part timers that I have hired. :D Unfortunately she got a full time job and can only help out on weekends so I had to hire another guy to help with the cutting and I will run the skidder. Yes the production will be down a little while I learn the machine and teach the GREENHORN how to do things right. ;) Our wife's are rare and far and few between and are keepers for sure. Well I think this machine will more than pay for itself in just a few small jobs and will look good doing it once I finish painting it. :)
I think you should look at putting the hired man on the skidder, you actually have more control that way and don't have to worry about the dummy hurting himself as much ::)
I have been thinking about it but a little nervous as he has no experiences with a skidder. I may bring the tractor with the winch on the job as well as the skidder and teach him the basics on that first. He came to me completely green knowing nothing about logging but was eager to work and learn. ;)
I would put him right on the skidder, then work with him, you do the falling, help hook drag for drag. The main thing is to watch the mainline, make sure it spools up straight.
When you get on your new job, take a walk though it. Plan a Battle strategy, find a easy spot to start, a patch of trees that are leaning one way. I always had a designated toping area. Once you get a hole in it, you can put slash piles where ever it is handy for you .
When i was a good ground i made truck road as i went. I kept my skidding short, a 100 to 300 yds is nice. But theres times I've pulled a forty, this is when you double or triple your drag up.
If i did cut ahead of the skidder and had a tractor, i would use the tractor to push and bunch trees all one way. This would work very good, then once ahead you skid with the tractor to.
Duane, do you have my phone #? If not, pm me. It would be neat to get together sometime. Logman, you might have to run it initially to figure things out, but I would get your hired man on there as long as he's not an equipment abuser.
I guess I could try and put him on the skidder just nervous about his lack of logging and skidder operation that he could get in trouble with the machine and do something stupid. :D But he is a quick learner and with me working with him and teaching him the proper way to use it it might just work.
Its easier to teach a new operator, then to have a know it all with bad habits. I've hired men with 10 yrs of logging and skidder experience. They made a mess falling, broke chokers, broke mainline, back lash cable on spool, over load skidder, mess on the landing, late for work, no lunch, no gas to get to work, show up drunk and ect. This is the kind of stuff i put up with when hiring help, back then all the good men were already working. Family was the worst, i fired them all over the yrs.
I've hired men with 10 yrs of logging and skidder experience. They made a mess falling, broke chokers, broke mainline, back lash cable on spool, over load skidder, mess on the landing, late for work, tHAT SOUNDS LIKE MOST OF US :o i ALWAYS HAVE MY LUNCH THOUGH ;D
Quote from: lumberjack48 on March 28, 2012, 12:12:55 PM
Its easier to teach a new operator, then to have a know it all with bad habits. I've hired men with 10 yrs of logging and skidder experience. They made a mess falling, broke chokers, broke mainline, back lash cable on spool, over load skidder, mess on the landing, late for work, no lunch, no gas to get to work, show up drunk and ect. This is the kind of stuff i put up with when hiring help, back then all the good men were already working. Family was the worst, i fired them all over the yrs.
I usually got a better job done with less problems after teaching a new operator.
Well I broke the news to him yesterday and he said he would give it a shot will see how thing work out! :D
Got the winch parts in today and put it back together and it looks like the leak is finally fixed. ;D I'll pull a hitch of wood and work it a bit to be sure tomorrow. Once I know it's fixed I can finish painting it and put it on it's first job a sixty acre lot were everything 8'' and up is going to be cut.
YUP so now I'm going to replace the steering bushings so she will be nice and tight for the up coming job! ;D Once that is done I'll be painting it. This basket case it starting to come around nicely!
I'd like to put new center pins in mine, I need to rebuild my blade cylinders as well. Mainly I need to go run it, I haven't moved it since last August :(
Mine needs bushings in the center she is a little worn but not bad but what skidder of that vintage doesn't need centers. ;) I to have one cylinder that that has a slight drip and it needs pins bushings were it connects to the machine. It's going to have to earn those and pull some wood first. I like how simple and easy this machine is to work on very simple and easy to fix stuff. :)
Careful how long you wait on centers, saw one awhile back on a lowboy in 2 pcs. , they must of waited to long.
logman81 on my S8 i didn't catch it time and the top and bottom pin had wore though the bushing and started wearing the bottom egg hole shape. The bushing where the pin goes through on the back half of the skidder wasn't wore at all. So being it was wore that bad, to fix it i would have to cut the hole bigger and put a sleeve in it. So being i was going to have to cut it out, i welded the pin in. I ran it 7 yrs before the other bushing's needed replacing. I hope you can understand my lien-go
So are you glad you got this bone now??? All these old skidders come with a magnetic tool box so you can work on them as you run em!!!! ;D ;D
The center bushings are not to bad just a little they will last long enough to do a few jobs before needing replacement. Yes I am very glad I got this bone I enjoy bringing a old piece of logging iron back to life.
Logman, you have to figure out how to post pictures, I want to see some drags behind that beast. You can figure it out- I only post pictures once every 5-6 months, I always forget how to do it so I have to relearn every time. That means I've learned how to post pictures about 15 times, if it can get through my thick skull, it can get through yours too ;) We've got 17 pages of posts on your Pettibone, I think I only got 2 pages of posts out of mine, and mine already had pictures. Maybe Jeff should make a rule that you can only post so many times without pictures ;D For instance, on post 100 you are barred from posting anymore until you go through the picture posting tutorial and post a few pictures. :D
Center pins=concrete floor don'tttttt do it in the woods :D .
Well guys more bad news! :( After replacing the gland cap and swivel joint with all new parts I still have a fluid leak. >:( went to try it out before putting it on the job I just got and it started to winch in and then the lever started to slowly move forward when I was pushing on it and saw brake fluid coming out of the clutch cover. I took the tear drop cover off and found that it wasn't leaking from the out side of the new glad cap but was leaking from the inside from were it goes inside the shaft that the winch drum sits on. So if I am thinking right the shaft that goes from one side to the other side of the winch has to be replaced. ??? Begining to think that this purchase was a bad one I really don't think I want to spend the money or time into this winch. Seems to me that the winch will have to removed from the skidder and totally taken apart to replace the shaft. Thinking about giving the machine back to the owner and saying NO DEAL!
logman81 take it easy, don't jump off the bridge. This should be a easy fix.
When you fixed it, what exactly what did you fix ? Did you put a live swivel on it ?
I've never had to replace the main shaft.
My main shaft was bent a little from pulling on a truck. This is why the gland cap would not work, i'd have to put a new one every 2 days.
This is why we all change it over to a live swivel, gland cap will not work.
The main shaft on mine is bent a little too.Tap the hole in the end to 1/4"npt and put the live swivel in.you'll have to rework the tear drop cover to accept the swivle. I have to have a little extre opening on the clutch bands so it doesn't draw in while it's in free spooling.
Logman ; my goodness , I just read all 17 pages . Don't you dare get rid of it . . Golly youve been thru all this time $ and learning . Worse comes to worse just put a different winch on it . . .
You'll be ok .
Its what swet equity is all about . Just keep leanin intoer .
Jocco ,Lumberjack, Barbender, Ed K ,Mad Murdock ,Snowstorm and anyone I may have missed . Thank you for all the edjucation . !!!
Bein a gypo skidder logger is alot different than bein a timber faller or a hand on a tower show . Lots of learning . Thanks again .
Lumberjack48 I replaced the gland cap with a new double bearing gland cap mine was still the old single bearing glang cap. Also replaced the swivel joint as well with new o-ring and U-cup. It fixed part of the problem as it was leaking past the old gland cap before I replaced it. Now it is leaking behind the gland cap were it seals inside the main shaft. So I think the main shaft is worn out, to big in diameter to make a tight seal even with a new o- ring and gland cap. When I first tryed to fix it there was some rust inside the main shaft were the gland cap pushes into and some light pitting. Hope you can understand how I'm trying to exsplain this. :D Seems that if the main shaft is to big in out side diameter that it will need replacing for it to have a tight seal, Also noticed that it is missing the shims not sure if that is a big deal though ???
Is leaking out the center of the gland cap or out the sides of the cap ?
The shims are there to keep the bearing from pushing the drum up against the inside of the housing.Don't ask how I know that ;D :) .
It is leaking were the part with the o-ring goes inside the main shaft. I'm looking around for either a replacement winch or someone that knows these winches good that can come and look at it and help fix it. Not alot of guys around here know about these winches but I do have a friend of the familys that works on heavy equipment that may be able to help will see. ;)
Thanks Ed-K looks like I will need thoughs shims if I decided to fix it?
All you have to do is thread the gland cap, and screw a live swivel in to it, no more leaks, its a very simple fix, take about to hrs, thats fixing the tear drop cover to.
If you miss placed the shims, no problem, get used or new or made-em.
I sure wish i was there to help you.
If i was on my feet, I'd be setting in your yard
Ed-K did this fix to his, have him walk you thought
I replaced the gland cap and the swivel with new parts and it isn't leaking there it is leaking in the inside were the gland cap with male part with the o-ring slides inside the main shaft. My thinking is that the main shaft from years of rust and pitting of the metal has caused enough damage that even with new glad cap and o-ring and u-cup that the fit is no longer tight enough to make a possitive seal inside the main shaft.
I believe Ed taped the main shaft on his
Quote from: Ed_K on May 01, 2012, 06:13:38 PM
The main shaft on mine is bent a little too.Tap the hole in the end to 1/4"npt and put the live swivel in.you'll have to rework the tear drop cover to accept the swivle. I have to have a little extre opening on the clutch bands so it doesn't draw in while it's in free spooling.
My gland cap was also leaking on the inside,it's not hard to fix.The hole inside the main shaft is already the right size for a 1/4 npt tap to start.Just get the tap started in,turn it in a 1/2 turn then back it out a little to break the scrap metal the tap is cutting then repeat,till you have 3/4" to an1"of thread.You will have to drill out the hole in the end cap to let the iron pipe slide thru.then attach the swivel to the pipe.You can get a live swivel at any auto supply.Mine was only $70.
As to the shims,I cut some out of brass sheet .020 thick.
I'm starting to understand this but need some more info from the experts :D So I tap the center hole in the main shaft with 1/4 tap so that I have about 3/4 to 1'' of thread. What type of pipe do I need and what demensions? Then drill the center hole in the gland cap so the pipe can pass through it. Do I thread one end of the pipe into the main shaft? How do I attach the live swivel does it screw onto the other end of the pipe? Will the tear drop cover have to be modified? Sorry for all the questions just want to make sure I get all the facts right before going fourth with this I'm new to these machines. :)
I just measured the main shaft hole and it looks to be 3/8 not 1/4?
The 1/4 npt tap is close to 1/2" when you measure to the outsides of the thread.You can buy black iron pipe with threads on both sides at a hardware store,mine is 4" long and the swivel is outside the teardrop cover.I also drilled a hole thru it too,and just hooked the hydraulic hose to the swivel.So far I haven't droped anything to break it off ;D .
I should explain that NPT stands for (National Pipe Tap) thats why it looks bigger than 1/4".
Hope this sound ok.
It's fixed ;D I went and got a live swivel from local hydraulics place and some black pipe and now no leaks! The problem I have now is brake fluid soaked clutch bands so she don't want to winch in very good. :( I'm going to get a bunch of brake clean and spray the hell out of it and then blow it out with compressed air and hope that fixes the slipping. I want to thank all of you that helped me through this problem and if anyone has this same problem on thier machine I will pass along the info. Thanks a bunch ;)
I'm glad you got it fixed, now i'll sleep better to night.
Take a fire extinguisher, the one with the white powder, give the bands a little blast. This will stop it from slipping, or blow some baby powder on the bands. This is quick way to dry the bands up, i did this many times.
Yrs ago I ran a LS 78 linkbelt dragline and I used spic&span on the drums.When I soaked the clutch bands I covered them in speedy dry and put them in the oven at 350 for an hour,just don't do it when moma's around :D .
Glad you got the leak fixed.
I'm really glad you got er . If you cab post some pics if thee fix I'll print then and put then in my skidder fix binder . I've been worried about it for the last 3 days .
Pretty bad when a guy worries about someone elses skidder 5,000 miles away .
Glad you goter !!!
Everything on the winch is fixed now. Free spools nice, and winches like a bear and no more leaks. I wound up buying alot of cheap brake cleaner and spraying it real good with that then using compressed air and dried it real good with that. Now to put this on a my job and pull some firewood. ;D
After all of the headaches won't it be awesome to winch in that first drag on a real job? 8)
That is for sure barbender it has been a long time coming and I will do my best to try and get some vids and pics for you all to see. :) I will be putting it on it's first job next week! 8)
logman81 what type of slides are you using on your mainline ? [Switch Hooks]
I'm definately looking forward to that! I just fired mine up and moved it, strung out the cable and winched it in just to give everything a spin, it's been sitting for about 6 months :(
lumberjack48 I'm using standard key hole slides and choker chains. barbender get on that old girl and pull a little wood keep her running good! :)
All good stuff but sure makes for slow hooking. For easy hooking you want cable chockers and Switcher slides on the mainline.
I know all in good time you'll be switched over, you'll get tired of trying to push chain under a tree. The key hole slides are about 50% harder to pull then the Switcher hooks.
Heres a pic of one, its the only one i'd use, you don't lose chockers and a easy sliding bell.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21649/import_switch_hooks_large.jpg)
Ya . I can't figure out the guys using chains . Those are the best sliders . But in a pinch chocker bells work good . Some sliders don't have enough vearing surface on the skidding line and kink it if you have to chock at a right angle to another log .
I kind of used to the key hole sliders because of my tractor winch. I will admit at some times the chains can be a little hard to get under the logs but I've gotten used to it. I have never used cable cokers before but will see how things work out for now. I really don't need to be real productive it is still slow going and don't have any real big jobs where real high production is a must. But sounds good to me. ;D
It don't have to be high production for me, i just liked things easy.
Once you use a chocker, your going to say why haven't i been using them all along.
I understand lumberjack48, I'll be puting it on it's first job Monday pulling tree length firewood and some pitch pine. I'll see how things go and make my decision after working it a bit. ;D Now it is time to start making the money back from what I put into it. Still have to finish paying for it. ;)