This week Calif started asking people Not to change their Oil early
I can see it now getting pulled over and ticketed for having clean oil in your truck. Frank C.
In all honesty, the 3000 mile oil change was needed back in the day, but with today's more advanced synthetic/semi-synthetic oils you can easily go 6000 miles and have no problems (as long as you check you oil level, which you should regardless of how many mile you go between oil changes).
Although passing a law for it is a bit ridiculous if you ask me ::)
The other thing is how long it takes to do 6,000miles. If you only do 3,000 miles in a year, you should probably change the oil after 12 months, no matter how many miles on the clock. Might be a lot of round town, stop start driving on a cold engine, not so good for the oil.
If you do 6,000 in 3 months, that suggests a lot of open road driving on a warm engine, and it probably fine for at least 6,000miles.
Ian
I'm from the old school. Yes,I know oils are better,motors too,but I still like to change at 3000. I can see why not too. Would save alot. I change the tractor we mow with at 50 hours. Gets alot of hot steady usage and high rpm too.
I'm from that same school. What year did you graduate?
I used to change oil every 3000 miles. I think one of the benefits of that schedule was that it was much less likely that you would ever run low on oil, just because you changed so often. My mechanic has me backed off to every 5000 miles now.
10 years after you. ;D ;D ;D
i try for the 3000 mark on my stuff. i know a man who was a diesel mechanic for most of his adult life who would use the drained oil out of school buses in his own trucks and equipment... you would think he was smarter than that.
also used to work with a guy that had a 1970 something lincoln continental, that never once had the oil changed in it. about twice a year he would screw a new filter on the engine and add enough oil to get the level back up... this was in 1989... he drove that car everyday for 6 years i worked with him around 100 mile round trip. im pretty sure he drove it until 99.
if you stuck your finger down in the valve cover the sludge was like someone pumped the grease gun inside the engine.
my dad worked at a service station when he first married my mom, someplace in texas, said there was an oilman who had a filter system on his truck that had a place on it to drop in a roll of toilet paper. he would have dad change the roll twice a month and change the oil when it was called for. dad says the oil in that engine always looked brand new even when he drained it out. this was around 1958-60ish.
Kathy bought a new Honda CRV about 4 years ago. It has one of those electronic gizmo's that I guess counts the engine revolutions and tells ya when its time to change. Ok, I thought we will do it since it had a 100,000 mile warranty. The gizmo tells us to change oil about every 10 or 11,000 miles which we do. Actually, according to the gizmo, we are changing about 1 to 2 thousand early.
As of today it has some 70,000 miles on it, runs like a new one, and does not use a drop of oil. Were debating on wether to keep it or trade...Kathy really likes it so we will probably keep it.
back in the day I did mine 3K as well, but now it is more like 5K or 6K usually shoot for even 5K 10 K ect makes it easier to remember as I do my own. rand into a deal at Menards for full synthetic and picked up 2 cases so last change was more like & or 8K on my Fords, was finally down to the ADD mark and I only fill them to half way up.
the POS Honda Passport (Isuzu) needs a quart with the fill up I think it goes 5K but take 3 or 4 quarts in between that mileage. My truck now leaks a bit with the aftermarket oil pan the 1st one was really rusty and getting moist so I had a new pan put on & now it leaks some at the rear main.
Mark
I used to have my oil changed every 3,000 miles, then yesterday I was in for an oil change and the service attendant suggested that it wasn't really necessary.
He suggested I wait for the "Change engine oil" sign to come across the odometer. That would be around 5,000 miles, depending on driving conditions!
By the way, I had him check the oil level before he drained it and he said it was right on the full mark.
Note: I change the oil & filter in my mill every 100 hours. ;D
Most of us today run multiviscosity oil,the additives have a life span.If you have a real oil pressure gauge there will come a time when the oil pressure will drop slightly be it three,four,five or more thousand miles thats the time to change.Myself I do it three to four thou.Air cooled engines like used on bandmills run hot and in a dirty area,best oil is a synthetic changed often,dosen't take that much and you will add usefull life to your engine. Frank C.
Every 5K just makes it so easy to keep up with oil/filter changes. Of course with the Lombardini Diesel on the sawmill, it's oil/filter every 125 hours.
The Jetta diesel spec is every 10,000 mile. The generator at the mill gets it once a month. But, sometimes we miss that.
I change the oil in my Ford F350, 6.0 every 7500 miles. Runs like a clock.
OWW
That ticking doesn't bother you anymore?
:) :)
that's funny. :D
:D :D
Check out this link: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/dec/15/business/la-fi-autos-oil-change-20111215
It's an LA Times article about the 3,000 mile oil change. Believe it or not I change out my oil every 20,000 miles and the filter every 10,000. Admittedly it's AMSOIL rated for 25,000 and their Ea oil filter rated for 15,000. Got 257,000 on this Super Duty diesel, so I'm doing something right.
Bruce
Same as Ron, every 10,000 on the Jetta TDI as per V dubb's recommendation. I go with every 5,000 on the f350 diesel just to make it easy to remember, i like nice round numbers. :D
That reminds me though, I am due for an oil change on the tractor.
Change oil and filter every 5K, just easy to remember on my end.
I guess I'm really old school then, I try for every 2000 on the cars/trucks and 150 hrs on the tractors ::). Still cheaper than an overhaul I guess.
:) Today's oil has graduated from the old school to a new school. Really, you can push at least twice that on the autos and still prevent overhauls. ;D
This what I do and its because, engines and there componets are made of better materials than they were years ago. Gas engines are injected so the engine runs leaner and cleaner. You dont have cylinders getting the oil washed out by excess fuel. Less wear. Tolerances are closer. Oils have been made better which give you more mileage. Diesels are the same way. I cange oil on my Duramax at 10,000. At 5000 I change filter and top off oil Rotela 15w40. At 10,000 change all oil and filter. Repeat, Repeat. 150,000 so far. Not much for a diesel I know but I will drive it till it wears me out. Have a 2010 suv and I use the same oil change procedure for it. Supertech full synthetic 10w30. This may not be perfect but it will have to do. I have been doing this for about 15 years and so far so good. bg
We've been changing the trucks and cars at 3000 miles. tractors and irrigation pumps at 100 hrs. Dad's 686 international he bought new in '79 has 11000 hrs and still no overhaul.
We have a 2008 Merc bought new . Basically the same as a Lincoln but cheaper .It now has just gone over 17000 miles .
I have the oil changed at the dealership because believe or not they do it cheaper than I can and I have a drive on hoist so it's easy to do for me .
The first 15,000 it was changed every 3000 and know it's schedualed for 5,000
Your right Al the ford crown vic,mercury,and lincoln town car are mechanically the same critter.Take care of that Merc their not making any more,100 years of evolution they had them perfected, now all changed.My last two cars were lincoln town cars love-em.Spent my life working on fire and police crusers I'am comfy with them logistics helps too. Frank C.
While better than nothing, chainging oil by mileage is not reliable
Frank I've always had big old boats to drive .The Merc replaced '90 Caddy.I've had Lincolns ,Caddys,Olds Toronado ,'98's ,big Fords and a '59 Pontiac with tri power when I was a teenager .Passed every thing but a gas station .
You know with the exception of the hot rod '59 those things got just as good of highway milage as the mid sized cars .Like right now .The Merc gets 26 on a trip .My '97 Ranger with a 2.3 liter gets 26 with half the sized engine .Go figure that one .
The Technology that goes into a bottle of oil these days is a very good reason to extend to at least 6000 miles on "normal" use. One must use there head on this one as differing conditions of operation will have the most affect on the change interval. I have been running 10,000KM (6000 Miles) since Gulf Oil came out with the Hydro treated oils in the late 70's.
I have never regretted it.
As far as making it a law? Well if we didn't have a bunch of babys on the continent we wouldn't need a nanny state now would we?
Can you imagine what explorers like Lewis and Clark (USA), David Thompson and Alexander MacKenzie (Canada) and all of their contemporaries would be like coming out of todays society.
This continent would still be undiscovered.
Yes Al,I'am going to miss the "road locomotives" Frank C.
Quote from: DarkBlack on January 18, 2012, 06:37:55 PM
While better than nothing, chainging oil by mileage is not reliable
I agree, seems like everything I do is dusty, dirty, and I'm always pulling or hauling something ;).
Well yes the milage thing really is unreliable .Highway miles are probabley the easiest miles put on a road vehical .However in our case a majority of miles are less than 10 per trip so with that in mind I still prefer 3000 mile intervals .Keep in mind in the 60's they recommended every 30 days or 1000 miles .Now of course the filter was a buck and a half and the oil a quarter a quart back then . ;)
I think it is very intersting all the how and whys of changing any engines oil The new oils are much better the MFG of all vehicles tell you to change Later If you disagree send a sample of your oil to a lab for analysis you may be surprised and of course you may fall into a situation where it needs to be changed
I change every 10000-15000 on my 05 colorado. I've always ran full synthetic and she's always ran like a champ. Never had any signs of engine problems so far, 122000 miles and counting.
About seven years ago I owned an '89 Accord, got looking through the owner's manual to find something and saw that Honda recommended an oil change every 6K or 7.5K miles, can't remember which. That got me thinking. After all, who is telling you to change your oil every 3K miles? Started looking around for "the source" and it seemed to be mechanics, oil companies and the like. It's kind of like having three servings of dairy a day because the American Dairy Association tells you that is best!
I did more research and found out that most new engines can easily handle a 10K mile oil change with a modern synthetic oil. Been doing it that ever since on my car and truck and it's never a problem.
Clark
PS - I don't really agree with the nanny state either. Maybe some education through the municipal solid waste disposal programs could educate lots of people instead of trying to pass a law?
I just change the oil and filter in my work van every month or so.5-6000 miles. This one has 327000 miles on it and still going. :) 3.1 chevy gas.
Now this sounds odd to me so I'm only repeating what a guy at work told me today .He just bought a brand new Ford Explorer .That thing somehow moniters the oil and tells you when it needs changed via the onboard computer .
According to the dealer once the moniter indicates an oil change as long as it's done within 2500 miles it's good .It could be 9000 miles before it calls for one though .
It's premium synthetic 5w-20 oil but still that sounds like a lot of milage to me .
Sounds similar to how our Honda works. The display shows remaining oil life in percentage. The manual suggests changing oil when the display shows 15% oil life remaining. With our driving habits that is normally around 11,000 miles.
I asked the Honda mechanics if that was normal and they said yes. Most owners are changing oil in the 8,000 to 12,000 range. I suspect the monitor is counting engine revolutions.
This is the first vehicle that we have ever let go so long between oil changes. Honda insists the interval is correct and backed it with a 100,000 mile warranty.
I'm not exactly sure how it works .
It would make sense the computer would moniter engine temperature, running time per trip ,oil pressure and perhaps number of other things .
With the advent of modern fuel injection and electronic engine controll they just about self diagnose themselves .Good thing too else the average mechanic would be doing a lot of head scratching .
In words of Ringo Starr this is not your fathers Oldsmobile .
Mayby I'am living in the late geriatric period,but I don't want the car telling me when to change its oil or talking to me.I've managed fleets all my life and know when I want to change the oil.That DanG "check engine light" that should just be a big dollar sign. Frank C.
I'm not exactly sure if the "check oil light " is the same as what the oil change message is .Now of days most modern auto engines have a low oil lever sensor in addition to a pressure switch .
Say I did take the time to research how that oil change deal works and it's exactly as I suspected .Through a combination of mathamatical formulas the computer can figure out by the method of driving ,operating temperatures pressures etc just about when the oil needs a rotation .
Now be that as it may in my opinion if it's unfit for lube oil in an engine it would stand to reason it wouldn't make good hydraulic fluid either .Burn in a black oil burner so as not to be tempted to use it for something else .Oh maybe as a preserative for a wagon deck or something .Kinda nasty for that but it works for a little while .
The manuals for vehicles, gas or diesel, spec the oil changing interval based on use. The ASE guys here recommend around every 3 months, or 7500 miles. When the ground is dry or hard I do it--no heated garage .
Questions though, for you mechanics: why are the oil filters engineered UPSIDE DOWN ? :'(
HOW DO YOU CHANGE FILTERS WITHOUT HOT OIL RUNNING DOWN YOUR ARM ? >:(
LOL
Depends on the vehicle/ implement.
Where possible I get the filter just loose enough to give it a "snap twist" and let it spin off into an EMPTY pan. Even this is hit and miss proposition.
The rest? welllll. We are still cuss em out every time we have to do them.
I'll take the old straight 6 engines any day. You can do those filter from the top or side most of the time. A lot of the older Fords had the filters screwed on side ways once the spin on filters arrived on the scene. Most were accessible through a hole in the cross member but the problem with more than a few of those was the oil ran down on the frame cross member.
No matter how you slice it filter changes are a pain as a rule.
How would downeast engineer them?
Quote from: beenthere on March 04, 2012, 07:22:34 PM
How would downeast engineer them?
No engineer here BUTT there must be a better solution than an upside down oil filter. There's little enough they give us to do anymore on engines. Oil/filter is at least the one brainless thing an owner can easily do. Ideas ? Design the filter "right side UP"; it's pressured anyhow, so why upside down ? My K.I.S.S. solutions are a dedicated oil change jacket with dedicated oil change gloves. Or, rotate the filter off inside a plastic WallieWorld bag ( melts easily and is awkward). Neither work well. :'(
Remember, we here in Downeast Maine don't have lifts in heated garages. Oh woe.
With all the millions spent on useless dashboard computers and cup holders ( how many sir ?) , how about some thought to solving the owner's oil filter PITA ? >:(
How to keep oil or worse diesel from running down your arm, no good way.I tie a rag around my wrist and that stops most of it. Frank C.
There has GOT to be a better design than upside down oil filters accessed from UNDER the vehicle. Got to be.... with dashboard computers, cup holders up the wazoo, full dashboard computer screens, rear view cameras, auto dimming mirrors, and other useless doodads, why not a friendly filter ?
So I asked friends who run logging gear how they do hydraulics and engines: same problems--engineers design machines for themselves not for users. For example: ALL hydraulic lines in a Finnish feller/buncher are black. Why ? Trying to follow a line for a blowout is a PITA in the field. Yes, the oil, engine or hydraulic, does get all over their clothes. Only "trick" : latex gloves and rags. That's kind of 19th century.
This is really buggin you ;)
You may not remember the days when oil filters were in a can on top of the engine. Easy to get at, and just remove the top and drop in another cartridge.
I suspect the filters low and on the side of the engines are there for how well they function.
There is absolutly no effort by manuf. to make a mechanics life easier,thats why good ones are hard to find and want decent pay,the job suxs. Frank C.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 08, 2012, 08:59:06 PM
There is absolutly no effort by manuf. to make a mechanics life easier,thats why good ones are hard to find and want decent pay,the job suxs. Frank C.
The biggest reason I quit pulling wrenches. Takes 2 hours to get all the crap and stupidity out of the way so you can even see the darn engine.
How do you justify 4 hours of shop time just to get to a 30 minute job?
I used to enjoy it. Now its a cussing job even to change spark plugs on most of them.
I had a 69 MachI Mustang with the 429 Cobra with headers that was easier to work on than most models to day and that things was real *** to get at any thing. I would take that thing over almost any of todays models.
Quote from: beenthere on March 08, 2012, 08:18:55 PM
This is really buggin you ;)
You may not remember the days when oil filters were in a can on top of the engine. Easy to get at, and just remove the top and drop in another cartridge.
I suspect the filters low and on the side of the engines are there for how well they function.
Sure is ! :( There is NO mechanical reason for designing the oil filter up, sideways, down, or a PITA to access.....NONE. The flow is highly pressurized; gravity ain't a factor.
Yes, I did change filters when they were available FROM THE TOP OF THE ENGINE ;D. Anyone remember the great slant six engines ? Or when you could actually change plugs, distributors, points, and time the beasts. ( Long ago Triumph bike ). Now, I got to get on the ground, raise the car on ramps, either remove the "protective" cover ( why, oh why ? ), or wait for the pipes to cool some before reaching up between the headers just to remove the filter ( Subarus ). All we can do is change the oil and filter. Woe.
Tricks of the pros to do this ?
I change my oils at 5000 miles, easy to remember.
Oil filters, I have a couple of large pices of cardboard down, empty oil pan, spin filter part way off and let it drip while I pull the drain plug, use a rag or wad of paper towels and spin filter the rest of the way off. It takes me 15 minutes to change my oils and it doesn't run down my arm.
My 06' 6.0 pickup, 51' ford pickup, 52' ford 8N and 54' Ferguson all use the drop in oil filters. Love them and wish they all were.
Gas/Oil/Fuel running down your arm, there are some Heavy Chemical resistant gloves that have a Cuff (looks like a cup) built in that cups back towards your hand. the CUP actually catches oil in it and keeps it there. WISH they had something like that when I was in the Military doing Aircraft Hydraulic Filters... Still have some PINK (were white) underwear (shirts and tightie whities) from working waste deep inside a wing spar. worst was working Alert Bomber/Tankers on the pad middle of winter in Kansas wind always blowing -40 temps wind chill working in a hole that you had to pull off your coat just to get into the hole. get to the leak (usually uphill from the hole.) all of the frozen hyd. fluid running down your arms into your arm pits and down you side into your underware and often leaking down onto your pants & into the boots... bbrrr still remember that all for about 900 bucks a month!
Mark
Final call to all engine engineers:
1. Design said oil filter(s) for access FROM THE TOP OF THE ENGINE.
2. Design oil filter placement in a "drop down" or facing DOWN position attitude.
3. Design so that Joe Vehicle Owner can easily change the oil filter. ( Not much else we can do today ! )
4. Focus group use: LISTEN to owners who pay your big bucks. :'(
With the tight tolerances and high pressured flow in present engines, THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO DO AS ABOVE.
Yes, I am bugged thank you. It is understood why the oil drain plug is located where it is --at the lowest point of the pan. Simple gravity.
Please change the oil filter location and attitude.
Thank you......"thankyou very much" ( E. Presley ) ;D
OK, the reality is that the engineers are not going to change placement and access of engine oil filters. Here's what Google found for me :
1. Tie a rag around the filter before spinning it completely off to catch drippings.
2. Punch a hole in the filter carefully on the upper end to relieve pressure before removing the filter.
3. Get Spiker's official U.S. Air Force "inverted cuffed glove". ( Sources for civilians ? ).
4. Pay $$$ to the dealer for an oil change...let them deal with the mess.
5. First bag the filter ( hot oil will melt plastics ), unscrewing it while inside a baggie or WalMart bag to contain splilled oil. ( This is one I will try next time. )
Other bright ideas are welcome. 8)
Flip the car over,climb up,reach down change filter and roll car back onto tires. smiley_heh_heh
I've seen that done in junk yards to get a tranny out.
Quote from: Paul_H on March 16, 2012, 11:14:16 AM
Flip the car over,climb up,reach down change filter and roll car back onto tires. smiley_heh_heh
???
If all you have to worry about in life is a filter change,you are doing well ;)
It could be that you need the distraction after a long winter.It's hard to tell if you are serious or lighthearted in your quest so I am going to go with lighthearted and suggest you roll the car for any future repairs.
Your filter rant reminds me of a Andy Rooney segment on 60 minutes 8)
Those Gloves with the Cup Cuff built in are kind of new, never used them back in Military, WISH I had them then though...
I HAVE used the Wallymart Bag over the filter after it was broke free slightly to help catch some of the oil. also done the nail punch hole into bottom of filter to drain it. no need to loosen the thing just punch a hole and open the oil fill hole or slip out dip stick some..
pulled the trans out of a wrecked t-bird that way tipped it up on its side (which was well flattened by high speed pickup dead center between the wheels.) Used tractor under rocker on good side and tipped it up had a chain wrapped around roof to keep it from going all way over. sat down on roof @ door window opening on 2stacked 6x6s whit FEL and 4x4s wedged under up under it. all left under there now is the independent rear end ;)
Mark
Quote from: Paul_H on March 16, 2012, 08:12:26 PM
If all you have to worry about in life is a filter change,you are doing well ;)
It could be that you need the distraction after a long winter.It's hard to tell if you are serious or lighthearted in your quest so I am going to go with lighthearted and suggest you roll the car for any future repairs.
Your filter rant reminds me of a Andy Rooney segment on 60 minutes 8)
Half and half serious and light Paul.....miss the Andy Rooney rants however. He'd hit things that were in the back of our minds.
March is called the Suicide Month here; time for drinks :o : long winter, usually heavy snow and cold, dark days. Not this year.
Rolling the car is a no-go. ;D
Bet the blackflies will be thick enough to choke jet engines this year. Frank C.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on March 18, 2012, 10:13:21 PM
Bet the blackflies will be thick enough to choke jet engines this year. Frank C.
Black flies will be sure to obstruct the late Spring oil change here. Oh woe..... ::)
Then again, since there was little snow or rain, the tiny critters may, just may, leave life alone this year if you're not a moose. ;D
FoMoCo sez my 2.25L Ranger needs oil change every 6 mo. or 7000 mi. Gave it its first change at 12 mo/6500. Of course, I don't use their oil- rather M1 full synthetic. (Oil was just starting to show some tinting.)
Previous Nissan 2.4L got regular change of M1 @ 20-25K. No engine lube probs to 430K mi, when many pieces were used up. (Not the engine.)
Too bad used motor oil can't generally be collected conveniently for recycling to better than new.
In the 60s and 70s Texas Refinery Corp used the take our used oil and Reman it. They are still selling top quality oil products but I aM not sure if the still take back the used oil for reman or not.
You can take your used oil to any oil change place and they will take it. It still gets recycled.
Quote from: LeeB on March 21, 2012, 09:40:21 AM
You can take your used oil to any oil change place and they will take it. It still gets recycled.
Right Lee. Many garages large and small here use used ( ::) ) oil for heat in filtered oil furnaces. Our dumps a.k.a. "recycling centers" take used oil for re-use. Why not ? Most non-nuke merchant ships burn #2 oil : so thick that in cold regions it needs to be heated before running.
P.S. I stihl don't have the ideal solution to changing an upside down oil filter. ::)
I change mine at 10,000 miles. calls for 5,000. I was amazed to find in european cars they call for 15-20k miles, for oil changes, Are there motors any different , I don't think so, I believe the car makers are owned by the oil companies,"conspiracy theory" :D so the get us to change our oil more. .
My wife in 2001 bought a Saturn Vue with the Cadillac caterra engine out of Germany, they put it only that 1 year. They have a light sensor that the oil passes thru which tells you when to change the oil. The 1st oil change was 14,000 miles, the service advisor was mad at my wife for waiting so long until she showed him the manual, and even then he hummed a bit :D. the car is still going , 200,000 miles, my daughter drives it, in northern Quebec, cold weather short drives in the winter to work, all very hard on the engine, yet still 10-12 k for an oli change. In fact I just tell her to change it twice a year spring and fall, as she really doesn't drive that many miles a year. Oil does not go bad, that is why Amsoil rates theirs for 25,000 miles with an in between oil change, filtering is the big thing getting the contaminates out. You can buy a filtration system that you never change the oil, just check for metal in the oil and change the filter 1nce a year. The locomotives that I run, I was told do that, oil stays in and they change filters and test it 4 times a year.
My 2009 Chev Trailblazer is like 10,000 mile recommended change.
I do it every 5-10k....
I wish I had seen this thread back when it was active, but I want to add my 2cents anyways. (i'm bored and its cold outside).
I bought my 2001 escort new. It now has over 266,000 miles. Only problems I have had has been with the AC. Still doesnt use a drop of oil and gets 36mpg. I think I have changed the sparkplus once, but maybe twice. One timing belt and one battery. Couple of brake jobs. I change the oil evey 10,000 or so miles with whatever the quicklube uses. I drive this car to work every wk, its not setting in a garage being driven occasionally. This is the 3rd escort I have owned, all bought new and all driven past the 250k mile mark and all teated the same. So my opinion on changeing the oil every 3000 or even 5000 miles is thats its a waste of money. In fact, the only place I ever see a 3000mile recommendation is at the quicklubes and places that make their money changeing your oil. That should tell you something right there.
Ok, I have said my bit, so its off to find another old post to reply to.
Oh this oil business has gone crazy .Danged regular oil oil is almost 5 bucks a quart ,geeze .On Mrs Smith's Merc I just take it to the dealer that with my employee discount because I work in an auto plant is cheaper than doing it myself .
We only put about 6000 -6500 miles per year on a car so at 5,000 mile change intervals that's only about once every 10 months or so .
Last week though one of the auto discount places had an"oil change " special .5 quarts of Quacker State and a filter for $16.95 ,bought three of them .
I'm not anal retentive about crankcase oil like some .As long as it has an SAE rating seems good enough for me .
They specify oil changes at 10,000 miles on our new toyota. synthetic oil. The dealer warrents the engine forever if that schedule is followed.
The oil itself doesn't what you call "wear out " it just gets contaminated .
Back in the days of non detergent they just let the oil settle out in a tank and used the clean off the top .Detergent oil will not settle out though .
But it might be possible to filter it. I was thinking about a way to clean up used motor oil to use as lube in the sawmill. Did a bit of googling and found a couple of methods. One is to string a cotton rope from a jug of dirty oil and let it go through the rope to a second jug.
Another idea was filtering it through toilet paper. That idea is expressed in the Frantz (http://www.frantzoil.com/home.html) oil filter.
Both ideas have been around for years.
I've not tried either idea, but they do sound interesting.
Seem like I played around with it as a lube on my sawmill, what I had was used oil,black. It stained the wood and I used it the same way as I do my half bar and chain oil and diesel at a SLOW drip. I do not use used oil at all.
Al,you use your car the way some use tractors. I brought a tractor that was 8 years old with a little more than 800 hours on it. I put 600 hours on it the first year I owned it. We rack some miles up on our cars too. But being about 20 minutes from anything does not help much either.
I guess I am in the minority with 10K oil changes. I use full synthetic and a premium filter. This is on a 2003 Accura TL. It runs well, about 100 miles a day.
Actually you're better off engine wise if you do rack up a few miles .The engines gets up to temperature and things like that .I've got enough I suppose at 6.5 miles to work and a tank of gas will last me a long long time .
Al.my work is right out my back door. We went running today and I did the trip thing,128 miles today. But that is really alot for us. Most days is only 70 miles. ;D
This is a fun topic , I wonder if people have changed their mind . It's only 5 years later.
I've changed from 5 years ago. Much more grey now! :D
I also changed how I change my oil. I run full synthetic in my 03 Durango and change it every 10,000 miles.
In my 13' silverado I go by the oil life indicator, also running full synthetic. Turns out to be right around 10,000 miles. Go figure.
My 13' ultra gets fresh oil, again full synthetic, at 5,000 miles. She deserves it, hauling me around!
Jon
Sorry if someone said this . Years ago a Qt of oil was a round a $1 but now 5x that. That means it must be better ? :D
Water Dogs
Lifetime oil change contract with my Tundra, good for every 3 thousand miles. That way if I forget for awhile, not a big deal. Told it holds 7 qts. As long as you keep your vehicle for 100,000 miles, money ahead. Not to mention that changing the oil requires removal of the skid plate.
I have an 07 Tundra, 220,000 miles. I change the oil every year in the fall. I use synthetic.
Oil changes are overated in north america. The oil companies own the car companies.
Been debating what to do with my truck. I was changing it twice a year, which equaled every ~12k miles. In the spring I'd use walmart synthetic 10w30, and it the fall I'd use the specced 5w30. I lost a big user of miles last year, so I could do it once a year and be pretty close to the old mileage schedule. It uses 1qt/1k miles, so it gets some fresh stuff every so often. Still undecided. May will be the time of the spring change. I guess I'll decide then.
I've been in the "oil changing"/ car repair business for 20 years. 10k oil changes are a joke! We see cars with broken pistons, carbon coking, slugging, regularly. If you want to change your oil every 10-20k then do so BUT change your filter and top off every 3-5k! The oil is made to last several thousand more miles than the filter. Also, use a factory filter. More so if your still in warranty.j
My respected mechanic next door to our business says changing your oil is the most important thing you can do to your vehicle. Especially newer ones. And yes to what AZ says, it's not the oil, it's the gunk it gathers from the combustion process and wearing of parts. That is what causes problems, not oil failure.
I change my oil every 5000 miles
Reply #19 has a link to the newspaper article. New vehicles do not need 3,000 mile oil changes. Of course your mileage will vary .
Engines are much better than they used to be. Oils are much better than they used to be. We still recommend 3000 miles at our shop.
10 years ago we really struggled with what to do when manufacturer's started lengthening recommended oil change intervals. We decided to stick with the 3000 mile recommendation with good filters and factory specified oils. We let the customer know it was up to them to extend the mileage if they were comfortable with it. We liked 3000 miles if for no other reason than all the fluids, tires, and underbody got checked, which most people neglect to do anymore. We sometimes see things like ball joints go from good to really bad in 5000 miles.
Fast forward to present day and we feel more confident than ever in recommended 3000 mile intervals. We've seen too many vehicles that use hardly any oil from 0-3000 miles and then use 2 quarts between 3000-5000. Most people (us included) are not in the habit of checking oil because it's not common for engines to use it any more.
We've seen too many 5.4 liter Ford engines losing oil pressure at idle, which causes the cam phasers to quit working. The fix for this is a $7000-9000 engine replacement. The majority of these were not serviced regularly.
We've seen too many timing chain failures in GM 3.6 liter engines. The fix for this is $2000-3000 and usually includes pulling the engine for access. The majority of these vehicles were not serviced regularly.
There are many other problems too and while no doubt most of them were design issues that showed up down the road the lack of oil changes seems to be compounding the problem. More than once there have been service bulletins on these issues to reprogram the vehicles computer so it will shorten the recommend oil change interval (on vehicles that use a oil monitor).
On a new vehicle I wouldn't hesitate to go 5000 miles but as the mileage increased I'd start taking it back down to 3000. If you're not the type of person who regularly checks oil and tires then 3000 miles is probably a safer bet.
Alan
My buddy Dave changes his oil and filter every 10,000 miles.
He has just over 300,000 miles on his Honda with no problems.
We've got a 2010 Chevy Traverse with a 3.6 at 150k in the shop now for timing chains. When I started it up in the parking lot the engine rattled for a couple seconds on startup. Checked the oil and it was 3.5 quarts low. 6,100 miles since the oil was last changed and the vehicle's oil life monitor indicated there was still 37% oil life left. Upon disassembly the sprockets are all badly worn (in addition to stretched chains). I won't blame the entire failure on not changing oil often enough but with an already trouble prone system like these 3.6 timing chains I sure wouldn't be pushing my luck.
And if nothing else it illustrates that if you're not in the habit of regularly checking your oil then you shouldn't be running that long before changing it. I'd be willing to bet the majority of that oil usage came in the last 3000 miles rather than the first 3000 when the oil was fresher.
Alan
Customer dropped off their car today for an oil change and mentioned they'd had a funny noise coming from the engine. Eventually they figured out it was low on oil and added 2 1/2 quarts. They found this odd because the oil life monitor still showed 33%. When they brought it in today the oil life was at 19% and the oil wasn't touching the dipstick. It's been 5200 miles since the last synthetic oil change and the engine has 132k on it. We'll be having a talk with them about changing the oil sooner or checking the level more often.
Alan
I'd like to have a chat with the design engineer who had the bright idea to tuck the oil filter in a place you can't hardly get to it .Then every filter takes a different special wrench because a strap wrench won't get-er-done .My goodness I've got one drawer in one of my tool boxes completely full of oil filter wrenches .Some of them are so tight packed you can't even get your hand in .On my Mercury,even on a rack you can't get to it ,it has to be from under the hood .Now that's just plain dumb . >:(
The drain plug on my Dakota is a PITA. There's a crossbeam that makes it a little difficult to get a wrench on, but not a huge deal. The huge deal comes when you get the plug out. Carefully place the oilpan to catch the oil, pray, then remove the plug. Bullseye! did it perfectly! It overshot the crossbeam, and went right in the pan. Since it's been 6 months since I've changed the oil, and forgotten the rest, I hangout under the truck to admire my handiwork. Pressure drops, the oil hits the crossbeam, then fans out all over the bottom of the truck, spraying me and everything else. It's impossible to catch all the oil in the truck. I'd like to kick the engineer that designed it in the nads :^S
I know of which you speak. Hold a funnel near the drain to catch the stream and divert it down into your catch pan.
Alan
I've considered making a cloth funnel that's held to the pan with magnets. Stick the lower edge, remove the plug, stick the upper part. I cool down after awhile, then don't get around to it.
I did blackstone labs analysis for quite a few subsequent rounds on my 12v cummins that was turned up and running straighht wvo in a heated 2 tank system. Cam2 oil was pretty bad but on rotella 15/40 and then later rimula 15/40 [same thing but bulk, cheaper] the right interval was at about 8200 miles. Id have around 10-15% lubricity and detergents left. This was quite a bit of short trips and towing. Not much idling.
Most guys running good oil in a commuter diesel that isnt short cycling or turned up, probably good for 10k interval.
My wife has a Toyota Corolla, 14 model, and it has a miserable little canister where you replace the paper filter. Luckily my Tacoma has a cartridge filter. They both count the miles and let you know when to change the oil. 5000 miles. When I change them, the oil is still clear enough I can see through the stream as it flows out of the drain plug. My John Deere tractors after changing have dirty oil as soon as I start them up? What is up with that?
I remember this 8 years ago
The GM 2.4L engines (like used in the Equinox) have been blowing rear main seals due to the PCV systems plugging and building pressure in the engine. Generally the engine is ruined because the customer doesn't catch it in time. GM has has issued an extended warranty for the issue that covers cleaning the PCV system and replacing the rear main seal (but not necessarily replacing the motor if it's ruined). Part of the repairs listed in that bulletin mention that the PCM will be reprogrammed to shorten the oil change interval.
We've been talking to other techs trying to figure out the best way to handle this issue on customer vehicles that don't yet exhibit a problem. The general consensus among techs who see this problem repeatedly is that it's the vehicles using extended oil changes that are having the problem (sludging leading to plugged PCV orifice leading to seal blowing out). The best preventative maintenance in this case seems to be to change your oil at 3000 miles.
We also continue to see multiple vehicles per day come through the shop that are low on oil. Virtually no one (including us) is in the habit of checking oil anymore and if you're going to run extended changes you have to do that. We're currently replacing a 6.2L Ford engine right now that has bad cam bearings. We're not sure but the likely cause was it running low on oil sometime in the last year. We're also currently replacing a 2.4L GM engine because the rear seal blew out on the interstate. The Ford has 126k. The GM has 103k. They're both very nice vehicles. The GM currently has about 8000 miles on this oil change (full synthetic) and the vehicle's maintenance reminder still hasn't come on.
The customer bought the vehicle brand new and also bought a $3100 aftermarket warranty at the time. It's only a few thousand out of factory warranty and the aftermarket warranty company denied the claim. "We don't cover seals and we don't cover the PCV system, which is the cause of failure." We talked to the selling dealer (who sold the warranty) in hopes they would have more leverage with the warranty company. They said they see about a dozen of these every year and the aftermarket warranty never covers them. So the customer will be paying for this one.
Each of those engine jobs is going to run about $9,000 and likely both could have been avoided by changing the oil every 3000 miles.
Alan
I have a friend that hauls 7000 gallon tankers of used oil from the big apple to New Hampshire sometimes two a day.It goes to a refinery there and is processed into clean new oil and bottled .
I am sure this goes on all over the country but I thought it was interesting.
Back a couple decades ago I had a good after market oil pressure gauge on the " Camaro " . Used race oil in it as I liked to keep the rpm's up and gas was cheap ? though I wasn't a " racer " just wanted the motor to run well and last . Anyways after a few thousand miles I 'd notice the oil pressure was " off " a bit. Time for an oil change and things were back to normal. Don't know why the pressure dropped off a bit, coulda been additives breaking down, heat , higher rpm's ( ? ? ? ) or whatever but that was my tell for an oil change .
Now there's no gauge in the car and the truck's sending unit is not always making " good " contact for consistent readings - some days up and some down. If down for two days in a row its time to check the level - yep a quart ( or less ) low .
So I 'm in the more than the manual is better but with the price of oil - not back to 3000 miles - more like 5 to 7000 of full synthetic but way thinner than the " Camaro " as my buddies tell me the newer engines have closer tolerances and need the thinner oil for less resistance.
On my old 7.3 diesel, I used to change at 3-4000, then my diesel mechanic said 10,000 was good. I then went to 10,000 and the engine was perfect at 190,000+ miles but in NYS the bodies don't do as well.
My current 6.7 Diesel has a meter that tells me when to change based on how I drive. I now get between 9,000 and 12,000 miles. The truck has almost 200,000 mi.
I change mine every 5k miles just because it is an easy number for me to remember. This is on my '99 Tacoma with the 3.4. I've always run synthetic in it since brand new and now 21 years later, it's graduated to being a tractor that can still do 75mph if needed. I try to take good care of it. The only complaint that I can legitimately say that should have been a warranty issue, the seat squeaks. Every other problem, I can see how I've caused. BTW, the seat quit squeaking about 60k ago. You can tell, I don't want to take it back for warranty work for something that piddly.
Recommended oil change on Ram 5.7 engines is 10,000 miles. Changed the oil twice on the last lease at 10 and 20 and will do the same on the new one 8)
One thing about this mess that fell upon us at this time is two fold .With regards to oil changes you would get more months verses miles on an oil change .Plus not need to gas up nearly as often .In these months I've used more gasoline in the zero turn mower than three vehicles .I did however change the oil in all right before the onset.I'd bet I'm good enough to go until next March at that rate .A light at the end of a tunnel.The great 2020 money saver .
Just looked at a clean '12 Subaru Forester with 100k. Came in with the complaint of an engine noise. Was 4 quarts low on oil. Total system capacity is 5.5 qts. of full synthetic. Noise went away once the oil was topped off.
Tag in the window showed it was last serviced at a Subaru dealer. The tag didn't say what the mileage was at the time but it was still 1500 miles away from the "next service" as printed on the tag. Checked Carfax and it looks like it was last serviced 4000 miles ago. Guess they should have put down to change the oil in 3000 rather than 6000 miles.
Alan
Alan, that's a good one to NOT get. Chances are good, the damage is already done. It would at least need the oil pan off and rod caps off to look at the bearing shells. Bare minimum!
We've been doing every 10,000 for 20 years now or so. only use only synthetic only also. Mobile 1 on anything under 250,000k (have 3 gassers with over that), then walmarts oil. It's foolish to not use 100% synthetic and to change more often unless your under using and need to remove water.
Quote from: A-z farmer on March 06, 2020, 07:01:06 AM
I have a friend that hauls 7000 gallon tankers of used oil from the big apple to New Hampshire sometimes two a day.It goes to a refinery there and is processed into clean new oil and bottled .
I am sure this goes on all over the country but I thought it was interesting.
When you you consider the gunk that comes out of the average oil well, and gets refined in the various fuels and oils. Everything from natural gas to road tar is in the mix. Waste engine oil is probably a pretty good feedstock to pump into a refinery. The used oil is basically "contaminated". It has fuel, water, broken down oil and carbon mixed in, so it's not so good as a lubricant any more.
Run it through a refining process and I bet you get ~95% of it back as clean oil again, not much different from newly refined oil.
Now synthetics have the advantage that they aren't a random mix of oil molecules. They are a blend of the best lubricating ones, that resist breaking down in the engine. With Dino oil some of the random molecules break down with heat or reactions with combustion byproducts. This happens less with Synthetic oils. Hence the oil lasting longer in the engine.
Was reading what Alan wrote about the Equinox, and reminded me of a woman who came to visit a neighbor, both are divorced, and on her way home in her Equinox, she shelled out the engine. I heard about it because he said she called and wanted him to help pay for it. He said no, and their romance went nowhere. I met her at his office, and she was very attractive. Maybe he should have helped out.
When I started this posting 11 years ago I could not imagine going 6000 miles on an oil change now it is common practice
Quote from: red on July 27, 2023, 10:26:17 AM
When I started this posting 11 years ago I could not imagine going 6000 miles on an oil change now it is common practice
I go 10k but lots is highway
I'm in the 7-10k camp running synthetic all day long. If I'm pulling heavy I would back it down to 3-7k
The oil change recommendation is now at 6,000 miles. The oil doesn't wear out, its the detergents they put in the oil that get all gummed up.
After doing some research, I changed how I run oil in my vehicles. Now, I run Mobile 1 synthetics and only change the oil once a year since I don't drive much. My wifes car gets it twice a year. Synthetics are good for 10K-15K depending on the load.
But a key part of this is that just prior to the change, I run a can of seafoam through the engine. You can use other products. If you look at the ingredients you will find most engine cleaning formulas are mostly kerosene.
Another great product to use is BG K44 if you can find it(amazon). This amazing stuff dissolves hard deposits in your engine fuel systems. In my automotive repair days, we used to use it on cars that couldn't pass their emissions tests or had a carbon knock in the valve train.
My understanding was that a working engine would have oil that stays cleaner than one that is idled excessively, with lots of cold starts. I run my oil the longest in my diesel pickup when I use it for long trips pulling out camper. Shorter rotation in the winter when I'm driving to the woods, 2 cold starts every day with lots if idling.
Way back in the 60's my glory days it was 1000 miles or 1 month .The oil and filter wasn't as good as now .Now days it's 3 or 5,000 .I doubt if on three vehicles it's as much 7-8 thou a year .So I just change it once a year .The Toro zero turn is 50 hours and it only gets about 25 in a year
Georgia just bought a new to her Buick .It's programed into it when it needs a change .That thing is a take off of a Cadillac .My goodness it would take a month of Sundays to figure out what it's capable of .Looks like the cockpit of an air plane .I'm real comfortable with a 57 Chevy but I think if it needs wrenched somebody else will have to do it .
I have two vehicles and change my own oil every 5,000 miles, it is easier to keep track in my head that way.
Doug in SW IA
My new 2023 Land Rover Defender 6 cyl recomends 20,000 mile oil changes, hard to imagine. Here in PA we have to get vehicles inspected every year and I will put approximatly 10K per year on it so it will be done once a year reguardless of miles, same guy will do both while I watch.
:D This oil business takes on a life of it's own .It seems to me people become oil brand loyal just about like the Ford/Chevy thing . Weather when you cut to the chase there is much difference in any of them just becomes a point of conversation often a point of arguement .Some are led to believe for example if you use stuff with purple die in it at much higher prices than others it becomes a magic cure all .To me it has became a point of amusement .Another version of the never ending great oil debate . 8)
Al Smith, Oil Provocateur😁
Well now I haven't cranked them up in some time .You can't let the fire blow out because then it all turns to "dormant "oil .
Fresh out of High School in 1982 I worked in a small Mom and Pop Auto Parts Store . . a customer asked for one quart of 90 weight oil so I brought him gear oil . . no he says he is looking for motor oil straight 90 weight. . sure enough we had a case of straight 90 weight motor oil
Cardboard Can with Metal Lid
Haha that would quiet down that noisy lifter! Or bad rod or whatever else was going clunk😂
I had an Oliver HG-68 crawler the rings were shot and oil pressure was low .Hercules IXK-3 flat head engine .Three quarts of 90 wt gear oil cured that problem until I rebuilt the engine .
Once, one of my buddies was down in Minneapolis visiting his dad. His Dad lived in the city, right in the Hood. Well my buddy was leaving town and he stopped at the local gas station to fuel up. As he was filling his tank, he said this big Cadillac pulled up on the other side of the pump. So this pimpin' looking dude got out and left the engine running, which my buddy said had a terrible knock. "RAP, RAP, RAP!!" My friend said he must've had a bit of a concerned look on his face, because the driver of the other car exclaimed, "Brutha says crankshaft!!" apparently in regard to the engine noise. He proceeded to explain that he had just gotten the car for a song, and he was going to add some 90 weight to it to quiet it down so he could sell it🙄🤷
This was probably 25 years ago, but every time I hear an engine with a bad k ock or rattle, I can't help but think of, "brutha says crankshaft!!"😂😂
back aways I had a car with a particularly good ( ? ) oil pressure gauge.
after an oil chg it 'd read bout 40 till a few thousand miles later and the reading 'd drop to bout 35 = time for an oil chg and sure nough reading would be 40 again - then repeat the whole thing.
haven 't run across another gauge that sensitive and now I feel lucky if the warning lite works . . . .
Over the years they had all kinds of dirty tricks to quiet noisey engines,differentials ,transmissions and so forth .Three quarts of SAE 40WT with two quarts of STP or Wynns friction proofing took the rattle of a knocking rod at least for a short time .Saw dust in a noisy differential or manual tranny .None of these fixes worked for a long time but enough to pedal them off .
My new vehicle recomends 20,000 mi. oil changes :o.
This was a very interesting topic with lots of opinions and it really is amazing how different engine oil is today
Quote from: OneWithWood on January 13, 2012, 06:32:31 PMI change the oil in my Ford F350, 6.0 every 7500 miles. Runs like a clock.
I keep by the 5,000 mile book in my 6.0 but it seems to come around pretty quickly. And with the price of the filters and 15 quarts of oil, it's tempting to stretch it.
The 6.0 and 6.4 Powerstrokes are exactly the engines you don't want to stretch your drain intervals on, from what I understand. It can give you sticky injectors and other not fun situations.
Anything with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation system tends to get very high soot loading numbers in the oil, from what I've read. My 03 Dodge Cummins would be fine on a 10,000 mile drain. I've seen that shouldn't be attempted with my newer 6.7 Cummins. It's EGR equipped, and Cummins doesn't change the drain interval whether your running conventional or synthetic because the oil gets loaded with soot from breathing it's own exhaust. That can in turn clog up oil galleys etc. Bad news!
Cummins gives similar guidance for their big truck ISX engines for the same reason.
Making my EGR go away is a life goal😊
When I was in tech school and working at the Toyota dealer, it was 3,500 mile on an oil change, 5k rotate tires Then it went to 5k miles for oil change and tires. We then had some rigs bump up to 10k oil changes.
A few customers asked my OPINION, not what the manufacturer was telling them. I'm a simple guy so I gave them a simple answer: You got a 5yr, 60k factory warranty on drive train if you follow the maintenance guide. Something happens in that time, you should be ok. Now, if your planning on keeping this rig for 9-10yrs, change it every 3,500-5k and that's cheap insurance. The manufacturer isn't that interested in your rig making it 300k, they're interested in it making it out of warranty!
I do it more frequent with town miles over highway miles. used to work and hour away and past 6 years, 3 minutes away. Or you could do a 5k change or 1 year, whichever comes first.
Oils are getting better all the time. When I started running Ponsse equipment with Mercedes diesels, I was surprised, kind of shocked really, by the 400 hour oil change service interval. Now they have it pushed out to 600 hours, and that's with a lighter, 5w-30 synthetic oil. I haven't seen any ill affects since they went to this interval, around 8 years ago iirc. Many of these engines, go 20-30,000 hours easily.
Quotehe was going to add some 90 weight to it to quiet it down so he could sell it
Reminds me of one of the guys I watch on You Tube. He bought an antique car that someone had done a major resto-mod rebuild on, complete with a modern engine and drivetrain. After he bought it, he planned to take it on a long trip. He had his mechanic do a full service on it, and the oil came out thick and strange looking. He just thought it was overdue for a change, had new oil put in and left on his trip. A few hundred miles from home the engine made a loud bang, and a piston rod played peek-a-boo through the side of the engine block. :uhoh:
After he got it hauled back to his mechanic, they determined the previous owner had put some kind of "miracle in a bottle" treatment in the oil that made the engine build enough oil pressure to run fine. After they drained that stuff out, the engine was short lived.