Hi everyone. I bought a used Baker sawmill and soon I'll mill my wood. I had a wind fall and many big white pines went down but also average to small wood ( balsam fir, spruce and hemlocks). On an earlier post I,ve seen nice photos from MAGICMAN explaining to avoid cutting the pith in two. But if I have a balsam fir 6 in. small end would it be better once squared (4X4 cant)to do one inche board (2 1X4)from two opposite sides and keep the pith centered to have one 2X4 containing the pith centered or cut the 4X4 cant in two to have 2 2X4 ( but this way the pith will be cut in 2 so =crooked wood)??
And if I have a 16 in. spruce and want to make a beam,(8X12) how to avoid the pith ? , or manage to put it in center of the beam....or is it better to do as much 2X12 of good quality and manage to put the pith in the center of one of those 2X12 (that will be less quality)and then laminate those to make a beam???
For white pines is the pith is the same problem???
I know (used the precious experience of FF members) that for hard wood ( I have a lot of hard maples) it is better to turn the log 90 degrees after every cut or every 2 cuts... I'm I right ???? I need your experience , I do not want to ruin what mother nature took so many years to grow.
Thank you for sharing your experience, best regards. Roger
Perfect logs seldom exist. We often talk about "centering the pith" or "leveling the pith". I saw logs that the pith may be 4" from the log's edge, and then 4" from the opposite edge on the other end. If the pith runs out of the side of the board, through the next board, and then finally ending another, then that is just the way the tree grew. Such logs just have to be sawed.
We can't make chicken pie out of chicken mess, so we just make do with what we have. I sawed a log this morning that I will post about tonight. It was one that could cause misery if it had not been opened correctly. I did take a couple of pictures.
The big mills around here saw almost all hardwood and most take the cant of 5 to 7 inches square and send them to the pallet mills. I think the big mills where they saw mostly conifers do the same, or at least market them as cants for log cabins, etc.
You are going to get poor grade boards out of the center of the logs. About the only way to get stable boards is to go thicker. Either leave the pith in the center of a 2 inch board or split that board and edge off the pith. The latter will likely still look like a sled runner if it has any length to it.
If you've got a use of market for 4 x 4 up to 6 x 6, I'd do that with the small logs.
I sawed a SYP log today that had the potential to make some very bad lumber if opened incorrectly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0766S.JPG)
I looks innocent enough until you see that the pith is noticeably to the right of the log's center. Also notice that the growth rings are closer on the right and much further apart on the left side of the log. The "hump" of the log is on the left and the "horns" are on the right. I have turned the log so that the pith is an equal distance from the top and bottom of the log. I will make my first face opening as it is, saw down to 6" above the pith and then rotate 90° countclockwise. This will put the "horns" up for the second face opening. Make your second opening so that the blade passes about an inch below the lowest point between the "horns". I then sawed down until I had a face more than 12" wide. Rotate the log another 90° and saw down to 12". The final 90° rotation will put the "hump" of the log up for the final sawing of the log. As I relieved stress, I had to rotate this cant 180° five different times to keep sawing uniform lumber.
Now, what if I had squared the cant and sawed through as the log was originally laying in the above picture. With the close growth rings on one side and the further apart growth rings on the other side of the lumber, it would have crooked badly. As it was, it may bow, but stickering will take care of that. Nothing will take care of crooked lumber except straight line sawing, and then it will crook again.
I almost always rotate 90°, but whether you rotate 90° or 180° doesn't matter. What does matter is that with off centered piths and logs with sweep, you have to saw through from either the horn side or the hump side to prevent having heavily crooked (crowned) lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN0769S.JPG)
This log turned out some very nice and stable lumber that will not crook or crown.
Untill a week ago I didnt know about this concept of how to saw around the pith . I am still green when it comes to sawing skills now I'm worried about how much rocking chair material I have cut for my neighbors. I would like to see some diagrams of how to propperly divide up my logs into useable lumber I had been just cutting them for the size limber I needed I surely split the pith more than a few times
Here are a couple of examples.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0853.JPG)
This one will make 2X6's with a couple of the ones on top edged for 2X4's. The pith is centered in the center cant.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0617.JPG)
Splitting the cant for 2X4's.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN0619.JPG)
Now it is rotated 90° for sawing 2X4's. Again, the pith is centered in the center cant.
Thats what i have been trying to do this week more or less ,I was needing 2x6's but the logs I was cutting seemed to come out as 12x12 cants making it hard not to split the pith I guess I need to rethink some of my sawing methods ,im a better logger than sawyer but not giving up yet. Thanks for the help
Sometimes you just have to take some more cuts off of the sides to bring it to the right size.
If you are needing 2X4's and 2X6's, you can size the splits and have two 6's on the outside and 4's in the center or 4's on the outside and a 6 in the middle. I have done both of these many times.
Thank you all for sharing your experience, it is helping us a lot. Roger
i will shake it up a bit by saying i just saw the log thru and thru for whatever size lumber i need at the time.
i will change it up a little if i see a problem with the cant bowing or the lumber pulling due to tension, but over all i just get after the sawing like the pith dont even exist.
because, to me the time i spend studying and turning the log on my manual mill, is more than made up in the one sometimes two boards that i lose with the pith being in the wrong place.
i actually will choose the pine boards with the pith on purpose for my walls in my house. i really like the way you can "see" the young sapling when you saw right down the pith.
if i saw a 1x 12 and it warps to georgia and back, i just re saw it after it dries and make some smaller lumber out of it.
Since I provide a portable sawmill service, I can not go back and do a "re-do". My reputation depends upon the customer getting the absolute best quality and most stable lumber possible from his logs.
but what do you do with customers that will not sticker their lumber properly,
i do not portable saw for anyone, but i do custom mill for others when they bring logs, i show them how to properly store their lumber but some folks are just idiots.
i know at least a couple that ruined their lumber and will not come back.
MM not sure what you mean by Hump and Horns ? Looks like to me the hump is on the bottom of the log. I cut a
Walnut log that had a sweep and i cut it with the sweep flat on the saw. I cut threw and threw and when dryed it
split down the center of the lumber. Cutting that way is why it split ? Also the pit was in two of the boards.
Sawwood
We saw a lot of beams and in most cases, we are required to "box the heart". In fact, or major beam customer will reject a beam that has any amount of the heart (pith) showing on a face. We have a couple of customers that buy a few beams for crane matting and bridging up heavy equipment that don't care and we'll give them product with split hearts.
We saw a lot of 1x6 and 2x6 lumber for fencing and other uses. When I'm sawing beams, I hold back logs about 11-12" diameter on the little end just for the orders. I find I can get one or two 1x6s or one 1x6 off each side and then have a well centered cant to saw through and through. This produces lumber that will have a better chance to stay straight. We saw very few 2x4s for some unknown reason. And far less 8" and 10" wide boards than 6".
We make a great effort to avoid splitting a cant down the middle to make two stacks of say, 1x6s out of a 12" wide cant. This method will produce a large amount of bowed boards.
The "hump" is the outward bow side of a log with sweep or curve. The other side of the hump is the "horns". In making a beam, I'll put the hump up and level the top of the ends and saw at face wide enough and long enough to make a board. Then saw the "horns" side to get a face. If I'm sawing a beam that is say 6x8" or 6x11" (popular sizes for one customer). I'll leave the curved pith or heart in the tall side of the beam and try to center the 6" in the straight sides.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/logwithcrook.jpg)
P.S.
I saw logs with sweep in the above manor all the time to make beams and to saw fencing lumber by making a cant and sawing through and through. I've been told that it's not the best method to get the most and best "grade lumber". I'm told that turning the "hump" some angle to one side to make the first open face will produce more and better grade lumber.
Another reason ERC and I get along so well. No pith in ERC.
Quote from: Bibbyman on March 08, 2012, 11:08:21 AM
I'm told that turning the "hump" some angle to one side to make the first open face will produce more and better grade lumber.
I saw the same as described, but I got to thinking about the above statement. Wondered how it could possibly be true. I thought more and wonder...bow or warp is not a NHLA defect for grade lumber.
I like reading these kind of threads. Shows the difference between a true sawyer and a board maker that pushes the lever on a sawmill.
I am really not trying to sell my method of sawing, just giving illustrations of what works for me and my customers. Sawing through from either the hump or horn side keeps the stress that is in the log equalized and produces uniform lumber.
Thanks Bibbyman for the drawing and where the hump is. Looking at MM
log i see the hump anf the horn now. I sure do need to learn more about
sawing as i have had lumber give me trouble and i see if i had cut the log
better would not have that much trouble. Larry when i come down this
month sure would like a demo on how to cut a crocket log.
Sawwood
Im glad that this subject has come up , In the 9 months that i have had my mill almost evreything I have cut has been for someone else so I havent got to see the affects of my sawing methods as the wood dries . I was strictly cutting for maximum yeild . Thanks for the tips and advice guys .
Proper sawing techniques will still produce maximum yield. The difference is that it will produce quality maximum yields, only maybe not as quickly at first. Concentrate on quality and the quantity will come as you master your sawing techniques.
thanks Magicman with a manual mill it's easy to just saw the cant how it lays after its squared especially on bigger stuff ,may have to get that Logrite everyone likes to brag about might make things a little easier .
Even with a fully hydraulic sawmill, a Logrite is not a luxury, it is a necessity.
And you are very welcome. If you picked up one hint, then the thread was successful.
The reason I started that tread it is because the wood is mine and I'll be the one using that wood.....so I do not want any problem or as less as possible and I knew that the experienced members would help the new ones to be better and get years of experience in a few days. Thank you all. Roger
Quote from: sawwood on March 08, 2012, 08:26:44 PM
Larry when i come down this
month sure would like a demo on how to cut a crocket log.
Sawwood
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/lake_logs.jpg)
Surly we can find one crooked log on this job. Well over a 100 logs, but iffen we can't, college spring break is close and with a lake at hand there may be other attractions worthy of study.
PS: Bring gloves. :)
That is a very nice job.