(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/tom-quartersaw-overview.jpg)
I'm not much of an artist but this is the way I quartersaw.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/tom-quartersaw.jpg)
Saw the log in thirds to maximize vertical grain.
Saw the vertical grain from the middle of the outside slabs.
Saw the vertical grain from the ends by turning them back and to.
and cutting the board from the underside.
Cut the pith from the center of the center piece
lay these pieces on their sides and cut to the bed
Tom, is this an easier way to quarter saw, or a faster way or are the boards more stable, or is the pattern look a lot nicer. I'm always lookin to try different ways to saw.
EZ
I honestly don't know if it is faster. I find it easier than most other ways, although many other ways are just modifications of this way.
As far as board stability, I think all techniques generate the same stresses. It's just part of quartersawing. I like the idea of getting rid of the pith, or at least most of it. Some folks will leave the pith in a few "middle" boards to help hold them together and equalize the stress. You still need to split them later to get rid of the flat grain in the center and the pith is usually cracked anyway.
This is the way that Wood Mizer taught me to Quartersaw. and it is documented in most of their manuals.
It works pretty good on big logs because your mill doesn't need a blade throat as big as the diameter of the log. You're whittling it down.
It also gives you options to adjust the size of the pieces based on the location of the pith. The pieces don't have to be equal, they only have to provide you access to the vertical grain.
The pattern is effectively how you would Qsaw with a swingblade, just the order would change. (We just start at the top and work down, but the log is basically processed in thirds) The few small boards recovered from the corner pieces are probably not true quartersawn (rift sawn) but it's not worth spending ages trying to get those perfect. You do however get 90% quartersawn, full utilisation of the log and there doesn't seem to be as much turning and fiddling around as other techniques?
It looks like a good method to me.
Me I just split it like this and take them middle 3 or 4 boards out when I rotate 90 degrees. I clamp both halves back together and do it again. Then saw up the pies.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Picture%20817F.jpg)
I find that if you leave the middle boards together that they dry straighter and check at the pith. Have good results and loose very little time or bdftage.
ARKANSAWYER
Yes they are all modified methods that work very well and save much time over true quartering. I only do the old fashoned quarter method for my one customer who will buy boards down to 3 inch wide, and even then I bet I would make as much and save time by the modified method. Now Ifin I could only figure the modified modified method. :D
I feel the only reason to quarter saw is to get the fleck out of the oaks and sycamores. Don't know anything about the softwoods or sawing for stability. If the board doesn't show flecks it may be worth less than a flat sawn board even if it is technically quarter sawed.
Arky's way is the fastest and best way that I have found to get the fleck. Make sure you center the pith.
Quarter sawed is actually just a way of producing vertical grain boards. Vertical grain pine is used for flooring because it wears better and its tendancy to lift from the subfloor is minimized. Vertical grain boards pull to the side whereas flat grain boards lift.
Vertical grain boards gererally are not very ornamental because the growth rings produce straight lines. Vertical grain boards are the only way to show off the fleck of the medullary rays though. These are the parts of the tree that pass nutrients from the outside to the inside across growth rings. They are what produce the designs in oak called Tiger or show up as little squares in a pattern of straight lines.
While vertical grain (quarter-sawed) is touted to be more stable than flat sawed, stability is directional. Vertical grain boards resist cup whereas flat grain boards frequently cup. Vertical grain crooks, flat grain bows.
Some woods used for their ornamental figure are better off being flat sawed. Examples are pine, magnolia, cypress, southern red cedar, woods with curl and some uses of oak.
Some woods that benefit from vertical grain are oak, sycamore, and special uses of softwoods used for "wear".
The Handbook has a write-up in chapter three and a chart -1 that will help you to make the decision, whether to plain-saw or quarter-saw a type of wood.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/Ch03.pdf
Arky showed that method some while back and I have started to use it on logs that will fit the throat of my mill. It works great and you get some real nice wide boards from it. It takes some practice to turn after the first cuts. Something else I do is shave one side flat so when I turn 90 degrees you have a flat surface for the log to sit on. Helps keep the 90 degree angle. I also removed the board dragback so I could get a wider throat.
Thanks for the tips Arky and Tom :).
Tom:
I'm not trying to poke fun here, but I wonder how many times you've had to type that all over. Ya needs to edit your knowledge base some day. ;)
:D ;D :D
I knew a fellow who liked quarter sawn lumber because he found it more stable in his use of green wood. But, I have one of his pieces with some green wood and it sure moves alot in the winter when RH is 10 %, and then back again in the summer when RH is 80 +% :) :D ;) ;D
Actually, I enjoy making a post on stuff like this every once in a while. Usually it starts with doodling on the "do something with Don" page and ends up a post. There may be several throughout the forum but they keep getting better.
I put stuff on the knowledge base but it seems to be that nobody goes there to look for anything.
Sometimes re-iteration is fun. :D
Tom:
A man with lots of time under his finger tips ;)
No one is complaining :D ;D :D
Probably just as well for some knowledge posts, as I'de like to hit the modify button on more than one there. No disrespect to those that post there, but sometimes the gray matter gets a little foggy over time. ;)
Tom, being you like to doodle, how about some drawings on sawing for grade. Different size logs, 1 by 6's and 8's. Please.
EZ
EZ,
Somebody else will have to diagram grade sawing. I saw grade to satisfy my customers and fear that I wouldn't stand the muster up against someone who did it for a living.
I've also found that my customers like some of things that grade sawyers cut out. I 'd be in the learnin' chair too. :)
Right off, there is more of a "method" than a "pattern" to sawing grade lumber.
Also, grade lumber comes in random widths so there is not really a target like making 1x6s or 1x8s.
A 1" thick grade board is called 4/4 or four-quarter. A 1-1/4" thick board would be 5/4, 1-1/2" – 6/4, and so on.
Grade lumber is sawn overly thick. It will be debated and the actual thickness will very depending on who is buying it but in the old days, 4/4 lumber was sawn about 1-1/4" thick and bought as a 1" thick board. Now days, many lumber brokers will buy 4/4 lumber sawn as thin as 1-1/16" as long as it's very consistent. It's always best to get this clear before sawing up thousands of bf.
Board lengths can be any foot increment plus trim. I think even a board as short as 3' and trim would pass grade. So you can make 3', 4', 5', 6',7', 8', 9', and trim, etc. boards.
Board width can be anything. You can even have boards that are say 6-1/2" on one end and 9-5/8" wide on the other. But board width along with length and defects play a big part in how the lumber is graded. WAY too much go into here. A defect in one location may not drop the grade and then the same size defect in another location my drop the grade and reduce the value of the board by as much as 3/4s.
When "sawing for grade", as it's call, it's normal practice to start with the best face of the log. There are a lot of exceptions and everybody does it a little different but the idea is to get the most bf of the highest grade lumber possible.
You open up a 4" face at least 3' long on the best side and make cuts in whatever quarter increments (4/4, 5/4, etc.) you desire until you start to hit defects.
The general rule is, once the face you are sawing drops below the grade of another face, you turn and saw on the better face until it stops yielding the best boards.
Edging is critical to improving or degrading the grade of the board. It takes experience to know when to edge heavy and loose bf but improve the grade and make $$.Or leave a defect and gain bf if the grade will not improve. I think you can leave wane 1/3 the length of the board, for example and not lower the grade of the board.
You keep sawing random width boards off the best sides until you get down to the heart saw. Then you throw it on the slab pile and get another log.
Grade sawing hardwoods, in my recollection and what I heard tell, is starting on a log with the defects cornered (as much as possible) and then anticipating the grade (if you know hardwood grades) of the board you are about to saw off the log. The grading face (poor face) of a board is the face that you cannot see, until after the cut is made. Keeping an eye on the other faces of the unsawn log is necessary so you don't saw too deep and lose the potential high grade on the adjoining faces (and as Bibbyman describes well, as I made up this post - see above). Diagrams likely are not much help but I believe there are old publications and articles that talk and present examples of grade sawing. I'll see if I can locate some, besides what are found here:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/sawlist.htm
(by Fred Malcolm, 1/2 way down the list shown)
Lumber graders, like inspector woody (where did he go?), likely can do fairly well making grade-sawing decisions. Don't mean to step on any toes here, as many here are making these decisions while sawing.
OK now that we know how to qsaw, which logs to saw for the best "fleck". Generally I do not qsaw any log less then 16 inches unless it is dogwood or they just insist on it. You should select a log that has the pith centered on both ends and have good rays. The medullory rays will show up like this.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/DSC00448F.JPG)
You want logs that these run from out side edge to the pith as straight as possible and you want logs with good bold rays. The log that this sample came from produced boards with fleck that were over 6 inches wide which is rare for red oak. White oak often produces rays like that and I have had them cross a 12" board. Centering the pith ensures that the flecks are in the whole board from end to end.
ARKANSAWYER
Yes I understand the 4/4, 5/4 and so on. But the guy wants 5/4 on the heavy side. What the heck does the heavy side mean. I should have ask him but I didnt want to sound completely stupid.
EZ
EZ I think what he means is he wants it to be at least 5/4's. I know it sounds kind of funny but 5/4 can be less than an 1 and a 1/4 after planing and sanding. When I saw 5/4 I add an 1/8" to the green cut wood. If you measure it off the mill it will be 1 and 3/8ths. This way after drying and skip planing you get a full 5/4.
Keep in mind I'm a rookie at this myself and could be totally wrong but it's how I do it.
Hi Norm,
He wants them air dryed for a month and shipped not planned. What do you mean by skip planing.
EZ
Skip planing is usually done with a heavy duty commercial planer. Some are two heads, top and bottom. You run the board thru once on a double head to even out the board. It takes the high spots out but doesn't plane everything. I think thats why they call it skip planing.
I kinda thought thats what it meant but wasnt sure. Now I'm goin have to find out if he wants the lumber, skip planed. Thanks Norm
EZ