Helping to cut some tree's for a Moto-X track.
Will save some hard maple for the mill,
but am stumped on these logs, I have an idea, but not certain
These are in Central NY.
Thanks
DGDrls
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/IMG_0195.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/IMG_0194.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/IMG_0193.JPG)
I'll be interested to see what the foresters and others say. My first glance at the first picture, I thought black cherry, but then it didn't really look like that, and the farther down the pictures I went, the more it looked like some kind of oak to me.
It does not look like black cherry bark to me.
Quote from: John Mc on April 18, 2012, 09:58:15 PM
It does not look like black cherry bark to me.
Yes, after my first glance, it didn't to me either.
How about a picture of the bud and the twig? Often times that can be much more helpful in ID'ing a tree than the bark\cross section.
I'll see if I can get some additional info/ buds, twigs,
Thanks
DGDrls
Elm. That's an ID of what the wood looks like. Black cherry doesn't have the heavy growth rings. Neither does hickory.
When I took my first dendro class, the prof used to point out bark, tree form, buds and leaves. We used to ID trees using the leaves. Then came October and leaf drop. So, we learned to ID trees using tree form and bark.
That worked pretty good until I got my first job in a sawmill. I was the log scaler. No more tree form, just bark and wood. Now, as a sawyer, I don't even get the bark.
The bark on that tree looks alot like Native Red Maple that grow's around here but not shure about the heart?
It is red hickory, Carya ovalis. Some consider it a scaly barked variety of pignut hickory, Carya glabra.
Quote from: WDH on April 19, 2012, 09:05:35 AM
It is red hickory, Carya ovalis. Some consider it a scaly barked variety of pignut hickory, Carya glabra.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on April 19, 2012, 06:50:09 AM
Elm. That's an ID of what the wood looks like. Black cherry doesn't have the heavy growth rings. Neither does hickory.
Uh-oh. ???
The thickness and color of the inner bark still lead me to red hickory, although Ron has a lot more experience with logs in that area of the country. Here is how to solve the problem:
If it is elm, then the latewood pores will be arranged in distinct wavy bands. If it is hickory, the parenchyma in the latewood will be apotracheal, that is, it is not singularly associated with the latewood pores, but is more random in distribution, but the latewood pores are more scattered and never arranged in wavy bands.
So, to settle this question, a close up pic of the end grain will tell the tale. It is all about having the right information :). Sometimes a pic of only one feature is not enough information to be definitive about an ID.
I believe that is in a hickory as well. The bark is just way to thick to be an elm. I would call it a pignut hickory, because I have seen too much variation between red and pignut hickories to separate the two as species. I think it's just one species with a high degree of variability.
What's it smell like?
My first thought was hickory, but I'm by no means an expert.
I was thinking something related to walnuts and hickories. The only elm up my way is American, which is a white elm. So I do not see the other elms in the south.
Dodgy,
I learned it as red hickory back in the dark ages. Since then, it has been considered a variety of pignut hickory. I have seen a lot of it with 7 leaflets whereas the tried and true tight-barked pignut usually has 5 leaflets. I guess pignut hickory has many faces.
OK guys here is a little more ammo,
Also, the wood seems very stringy/fibrous in the longitudinal section,
Tree was a triple stem.
DGDrls
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/IMG_0197.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/100_1085.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/100_1084.JPG)
Probably all descended from the same ancestors, just like Chihuahuas and Great Danes both come from wolves.
Quote from: WDH on April 19, 2012, 09:15:05 PM
Dodgy,
I learned it as red hickory back in the dark ages. Since then, it has been considered a variety of pignut hickory. I have seen a lot of it with 7 leaflets whereas the tried and true tight-barked pignut usually has 5 leaflets. I guess pignut hickory has many faces.
Definitely hickory.
Yes I would agree. And as a side note, that upper bark there has traits of young trees and upper limb bark of butternut (probably walnut to). The buds aren't as big, but sure can see traits. ;D
Thank you gentlemen,
Ron W, my Conservation class in H.S. was also taught
the same way with winter tree I.D.
DGDrls
Oh yeah, those twigs are 100% a confirmation. You've got hickory. That second bark pic sure looks like a pure pignut, but as WDH noted, many dendrologists would say that the bark in the first pic is more typical of red hickory. Hence my propensity to lump them all together! :D
As an interested bystander to all this tree knowledge, I know how to tell the difference between hickory and elm. Cut a 20" round and swing a splitting maul at it. If it splits, it's hickory. If the maul bounces off, it's elm. Knew I could help! ;)
Haha, that's one indicator :). Just to complicate matters, though, I've had some hickory firewood that gave a hydraulic splitter a workout!
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on April 20, 2012, 03:31:50 PM
Haha, that's one indicator :). Just to complicate matters, though, I've had some hickory firewood that gave a hydraulic splitter a workout!
Yes, that is my experience too. They are both tough splitters.
Quote from: doctorb on April 20, 2012, 02:50:32 PM
As an interested bystander to all this tree knowledge, I know how to tell the difference between hickory and elm. Cut a 20" round and swing a splitting maul at it. If it splits, it's hickory. If the maul bounces off, it's elm. Knew I could help! ;)
I'd say, if it splits it is oak. :)
I've had straight grained hickory fly apart like red oak, but I've also had hickory that went in the "campfire wood" pile because it wouldn't split if it were holding a pair of aces. The hardest wood to split has got to be magics favorite, sweetgum. If anybody ever finds a use for that junk they'll be rich. Looks like hickory to me ass well, it definately wasn't a fast grower.
Quote from: Dodgy Loner on April 20, 2012, 03:31:50 PM
Haha, that's one indicator :). Just to complicate matters, though, I've had some hickory firewood that gave a hydraulic splitter a workout!
Had one recent rock maple that gave one guy (me) with a 5 lb splitting maul, 10 lb post maul and a wood splitter a work out to. :D I busted the neighbor's home made split'n maul in two pieces. Broke at the weld and in the iron handle (sandwiched by two wood halves). I went to town and got a Garant splitting maul and finished up. That was one tough old brute (maple). She's firewood now, 2 cords. :D Had to chainsaw some grooves in the top of the blocks to make any headway.
My experience with hickory is even less than my experience with elm, which I have tried to avoid. I had 2 hickory tree I turned into firewood, both about 14 - 16 " in diameter. It was harder to split than oak, but I managed OK. I would rather roll elm down the back hill. Sorry about the hijack of this thread!
I had several rounds between 24-36" across that I had to bust up to get onto the splitter. :D
Quote from: doctorb on April 20, 2012, 02:50:32 PM
Cut a 20" round and swing a splitting maul at it. If it splits, it's hickory. If the maul bounces off, it's elm. Knew I could help! ;)
Doc,
You should write a tree ID book :D. I like things simple ;D.
I had a fellow down here tell me, if you want to tell the difference between ash and hickory, start your saw. If you go to cut it and the saw bounces back, it's hickory.
Ash's parenchyma is paratrachael in the latewood (OK David, jump on this :D). It is all in the parenchyma :).
Quote from: WDH on April 20, 2012, 09:12:40 PM
Ash's parenchyma is paratrachael in the latewood (OK David, jump on this :D). It is all in the parenchyma :).
??? Sounds like more skin diseases to me....
Get the Brown soap out :D
Thanks again gentlemen,
the help and humor is much appreciated.
DGDrls