I have a 2002 Ford Escape. It is in good shape for the most part, but it has just over 240,000 miles on it. Up until now, I've always replaced any worn or broken part rather quickly. It's time to do the brakes again (who knows how many times this will make ;D) and my check engine light just came on, I got a code P1409 when I checked it with the fancy dancy computer thingy. I googled it, and it's the egr vacuum regulator solenoid curcuit (whatever that does?)
As mentioned, it's in pretty good shape for the mileage. There is barely any rust on it except for a tiny bit starting near the wheel wells. I use it mostly for a "dog car" for when we need to take the dogs to the vet. I also use it as a work vehicle (just personal use) to haul my chainsaw, log peavey's, and general milling tools when I go out to the mill. I barely put any miles on it anymore, I don't use it to commute to work, or any real "important" trips.
For the most part, I can break down in it (although it's never left me stranded) and it's not a big deal, I mean I rarely NEED to be somewhere on time, typically I don't have much of a schedule.
A few people have mentioned to me that I should probably get rid of it while it's at least still worth something, not much of course, but something.
My wife drives a deisel Jetta sportwagon and we love it, that's our 'road trip' car, but we can barely fit one dog in it, let alone 3.
I'm trying to decide if I should fix it again, or maybe start looking for something else?
When do you guys call it quits with your vehicles?
I only tried to deal once. We had a Ford Taurus station wagon with some miles on it,was not real high,but not low either. We went to 2-3 dealers. They expect you to put about 15K a year on a car. ::) You're a little over on that math. ;D We gave that idea up fast. But saying that my stepson had a Chevy truck,one of those kinda fancy ones and he made out good at a dealer. My boss had a Chevy truck,like most buy and the dealer would not give him nothing for it. If you want to trade,give it a try. Never know until you try it. Than if they won't give you nothing,keep driving it until the motor or tranny goes.
I have had a few I drove until they had to be towed off the road but that's another story. Brakes are a wear item, part of regular maintenance. If you are having unusual failures and the car is starting to nickel and dime you to death, it's time to part ways. We have a 97 Ranger that is at about the same stage in life, I need to replace the starter again but if we get another year out of it I'm happy.
We got a 2001 VW cabrio, still runs strong with 185K miles, still gets 38MPG. Our VT road salt is really taking a toll on it, the body is starting to go. Not sure how many more years it'll last before it really fails inspection, or needs a ton of work to pass. It's not pretty, paint chips, rust spots, 2 missing wheel covers, but it runs strong. We will run that car till we can't run it anymore. If something major goes on it, that will cost almost as much to fix as the car's worth, it will probably get scrapped. Noone would take it in trade, could get maybe $1500 private party for it, and that's being optimistic. Worth more to us to just run it as long as possible, at this point. BTW, this vehicle was bought well used, fairly cheap.
I won't be looking at a NEW vehicle for quite some time. Ah, college....
Quote from: Piston on October 01, 2012, 09:45:11 AM
I googled it, and it's the egr vacuum regulator solenoid curcuit (whatever that does?)
I'm trying to decide if I should fix it again, or maybe start looking for something else?
When do you guys call it quits with your vehicles?
Sounds to me like it could be just the EGR valve? I replaced one on my car once and it wasn't difficult at all. It is part of the emission control system. That said, I'm not a professional mechanic and am not familiar with the particular code you got.
As for getting a new car, my only advice is to not buy brand new unless you can pay cash for the entire thing and you plan on driving whatever you buy for as long as you drove this car. ;)
My daily driver and most reliable car is a 2003 Acura TL. It is running on transmission #3 (I paid for one) with 188K miles. At 187K miles, I changed the timing belt and water pump. The pump wasn't leaking but it's driven by the timing belt and behind a bunch of stuff and it was inexpensive. The old belt looked new, I wish I had never changed it. Since then the power steering pump died, I replaced an IAC valve due to erratic idling. This weekend I replaced a temperature sending unit due to erratice guage readings (and misinformation sent to the computer). Suspecting a bad Throttle Position Sensor or Crank Position Sensor related to an occasional non-starting issue. I still owe $1000 on the car and thinking about retiring it, but not getting rid of it.
I would say that the sensor issue you have on the Escape is relatively minor. You may start to experience rough idling if you don't fix it. I don't know what the engine bay looks like on an escape, but I had to take the intake manifold off my 2001 Sable to replace the same sensor you mention. If you have a dealer do it, expect at least 2 hours labor (~$100 per hour) and about $150 in parts. The brakes are no big deal. You could do both front and rear yourself for around $120 and that includes replacing the front rotors...
I can't answer your question but have the exact same one, my '01 3/4ton chev is being hauled away today to get a new transmission. Worth it at 200k+ miles, I don't know, but I do know the rest of the truck is solid and priced a lot of used pickups around that I DON'T know anything about (it's scary) so I'm fixing it. Bad thing is I bought it knowing about the tranny thinking it was an easy fix, turned out it wasn't but I drove it for over a year before it tanked, now I'll have $1900 in a pickup I paid $1500 for to begin with ::) story of my life.
The Escape has actually been a really good vehicle. My wife bought it in '04 with 40k on the clock. Since then I've done all the maintanence on it. I've had to replace the alternator twice, which entails removing the front right axle!) Other than that, it's been regular maintenance "wear items". I've done the spark plugs 3 times (which require removing the intake manifold for the back 3 >:() I've replaced 2 of the coils (each cylinder has its own coil), I've replaced some sensor that I can't remember what it is, and that is really about it, aside from fluid changes which have always been on time. Oh one time my wife brought it somewhere to have them change the oil and they stripped the oil plug when they tightened it! Oh man I was so mad. They tried to convince her to leave the car and they could replace the oil pan, which they'd have to jack up the motor. She was smart enough to say no and had AAA tow it home. I went to the hardware store and bought a $4 oversized, self tapping oil plug and have used it since. It's been in there since about 170k.
I'll price the EGR valve that was mentioned and go from there. I know brakes shouldn't be bad. Really I should just keep it and run it into the ground because at this point I drive so little. I just can't help but think the second I put some money into it's going to blow up :D
I like the idea that someone said about replacing it when it's gonna cost more than the car is worth. At this point, I could probably fix it for less then one months car payment :o
Quote from: Piston on October 01, 2012, 11:19:45 AM
I like the idea that someone said about replacing it when it's gonna cost more than the car is worth. At this point, I could probably fix it for less then one months car payment :o
That's one way to look at it, but I think more about what the replacement vehicle is worth. They're usually worth scrap price when I get rid of them. ;D I don't know how you guys manage to get by without a pickup though. We were down to a minivan for a while and I couldn't get anything done!
I don't know how you tell; we've bought new since '75.....my farm trucks (either 3/4 or 1-tons) and wife's daily drivers (full-size 4-door sedans); we put LOTS of miles on 'em and have always sold 'em locally and bought new again......when it seemed cheaper to buy rather than repair. Worked every time but once; had a '81 D250 Dodge that was still pretty much perfect (no road salt/rust around 'here'), except it was evident that the engine was on its last legs. Talked to the shop foreman at the Dodge place (this was when they still had mechanics, instead of technicians) and he said they'd rebuild my engine for $750; figured I'd get another 4 or 5 years out of the truck, so I had it rebuilt. Within 2 months, the transmission....which I thought was perfect....failed. Before I finally gave up a couple of years later, I'd put almost 4,000 dollars in the thing.........which was worth about 1500.....when I started working on it and when I sold it. Never again............I hope.
Quote from: DanG on October 01, 2012, 11:37:11 AM
I don't know how you guys manage to get by without a pickup though. We were down to a minivan for a while and I couldn't get anything done!
That's the other part of my dilemna! :D
For now, I have to borrow my dad's truck (which used to be mine until I sold it to him, never should have that!) It's a '99 F350 with the 7.3 deisel.
It's not too inconvenient as he lives right up the street, but still, it would be nice to have my own truck again. >:(
Now where did I put that lottery ticket???
Quote from: DanG on October 01, 2012, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: Piston on October 01, 2012, 11:19:45 AM
I like the idea that someone said about replacing it when it's gonna cost more than the car is worth. At this point, I could probably fix it for less then one months car payment :o
That's one way to look at it, but I think more about what the replacement vehicle is worth. They're usually worth scrap price when I get rid of them. ;D I don't know how you guys manage to get by without a pickup though. We were down to a minivan for a while and I couldn't get anything done!
DanG, I've been driving a '88 2 door Caddy all summer, was going to fix my truck early but not enough time, then came the drought, not enough money. Just loaded it on the tow truck and with any luck I'll have it back by the end of the week, you have NO idea how hard it is to get anything done without a pickup, I hate minivans but think I'd take yours over the Caddy anyday :D.
Sandhills, ain't you got a torch? That ol' Caddy can be a truck in just a few minutes! ;D 8) :D
I say fix it til something expensive goes bad. I recently got a '99 Toyota Rav4 with 132000 miles on it for my drive-to-the-woodlot car. The rear seats came out, first thing. I've stuffed 100 foot rolls of 4" drainage pipe in and it will handle an armful of 8' 2x4s or 8 five gallon water containers and still get 30 MPG.
DanG, the thought has crossed my mind a time or two......but it's a Caddy :D
Oh it has a big trunk too ;D
Fix it and hook your log splitter to it... ;D
It usually is pretty cheap to fix your own vehicle if you have the skills to do it. It's all about how you take care of your vehicle. I have noticed those who work on their own vehicles tend to have longer lasting vehicles than those who take them to a mechanic. I know of a guy that put 600K miles on his '87 VW Golf.
http://www.pureluckdesign.com/vw/600k/index.htm
My plan for a new truck is try and find a older pickup from a less rusty state then Ohio and rebuild it to new Ive had enough pollution stuff and metric bolts. I want to get back to the 60's :D The best truck I ever owened was a 1960 B 120 International four wheel drive I had a P.T.O. driven winch on the front it was a great truck I wish they still built things like that.
My vehicles let me know when it's time to replace them ;D.
When the fuel pump broke in my 28 year-old pickup and I couldn't get a replacement part, it was time to retire it (got $100 for it :) ).
When the door panels on my cavalier started to flap like wings, it was time to retire it.
When the front wheels on my International 1-ton froze to the ground and I broke the steering arm off a wheel while trying to break them free, it was time to retire it.
When I call it quits on a vehicle is when the unscheduled maintenance reaches the point where I can no longer depend on it, or if I have absolutely no need for the vehicle.
Based upon your comments, it seems to me that a good, used crew cab pickup might be ideal for you. You could haul the dogs in it, as well as the sawmill equipment.
Quote from: Holmes on October 01, 2012, 06:38:53 PM
Fix it and hook your log splitter to it... ;D
Funny you say that, I've been talking to some friends at work about the same issue (keep or sell the Escape) and they recommended the exact same thing you did :D :D :D
What I've done in the past is this: when I'm spending the same money on yearly repair costs that a new vehicle would cost me in payments, the time has come. I just gave away my 99 Neon (165,000 miles) to my step-son. In the past 9 months, we probably spent more than $3K on repairs, which is more than the car is worth.
I only ever sell a vehicle when it no longer suits my needs and I need the money more. Usually it's because we got an extra kid or two and need a bigger vehicle. We have 5 kids now, so when we get the next one, we will max out our Astro, and we'll need to get a full-size van when we get the seventh kiddo. And maybe eventually one of those bus things.
I have never paid more than $2,000 for any vehicle. My Astro is a 1990 model, and has 268k on it. It shows its age, but so far it's still kicking.
My boss's Tacoma that I drive is a '98 and has 360K on it. We just replaced the windshield on it, and now I'm styling! If you think we baby that truck, you got another think coming. We regularly haul it and a trailer full of hardwood firewood. His other Tacoma I think is a '94, and has around 420K on it. They just replaced the engine in that one, which didn't cost too much. Certainly less than buying another running truck. The one I drive is vibrating now, feels like the driveshaft, so I may need them to put u-joints in it. Still beats paying $400 a month for a new truck.
Quote from: clww on October 02, 2012, 10:53:10 AM
What I've done in the past is this: when I'm spending the same money on yearly repair costs that a new vehicle would cost me in payments, the time has come. I just gave away my 99 Neon (165,000 miles) to my step-son. In the past 9 months, we probably spent more than $3K on repairs, which is more than the car is worth.
I don't think you ever reach that point with a Toyota until the frame breaks. Then, do not despair, buy another one with a bad engine or transmission, and keep your old one for parts.
Quote from: Okrafarmer on October 02, 2012, 10:58:14 AM
.....And maybe eventually one of those bus things.
What are you gonna do once you fill up one of those bus things? ;D
He could get his own TV show! :D You could name it "A bus load and counting" ;) Sorry Okra just havin' fun, my brother had a '91 Astro (I think) and it had a tremendous amount of miles and still ran better and got better mileage than anything I've ever owned so don't give up on her till you have to.
Those old Tacoma's were just about bulletproof. An older friend of mine had one for about 15 years and almost looked and ran like new.
If you do drive older vehicles, it is nice to have a second vehicle, even if just a little car, to get you by till you can fix it in case something unexpected happens (like the control arm breaking on my '85 dodge)
I think the best policy is to have older vehicles, and have one or two more than you need. I need to work up to that condition myself. Ideally you keep one up on blocks, off the insurance, and get it down and on the insurance if the need arises.
Once I fill up the bus thingy, I'll start having grandchildren, and my kids will each have to get their own car.
In the Northeast, we usually give up on a vehicle when they are so rusty they won't pass inspection.They don't allow tape anymore ::) My '97 Toyota 4runner made 265,000 but the trans clutches were starting to slip and the parts to repair the rust were expensive. I have another 4runner and a couple of old pickups. I always tell the Ford parts guy that it's a good thing I have a Toyota so I can get there to buy parts :D
The 4runner gets 20 mpg so the RAV4 was a 50% improvement. At $4/gal, it will actually pay for its self in 90,000 miles compared to the 4runner.
Poor Piston would be in financial shock going from an Escape to a full size pickup :o
i own and maintain 3 vehicles for myself at present time, newest is a 98 suburban 3/4 ton 4wd. evryday is the 1/2 ton ford 96 model. the most recent is an 81 gmc 1ton flatbed.
im not real big on looks but i have to be mechanically satisfied with anything i drive. ;D
worst thing here in okla, is if your vehicle is two years or more out of date on the tag it costs 200 bucks worth of penaltys to get back on the road. i hate that.
I am so glad we don't have inspections in SC. And of course, we don't have salt, either, or at least, if we do, it's only once or twice a year, and gets washed right off with the rain and doesn't just stay there for long periods of time.
Now, you can still get in trouble with the police for having a light out, or whatever, but they very rarely stop you for that, unless they think it is a very real hazard. Usually, if you are stopped in a personal vehicle for a mechanical infraction, it's almost always a warning. No inspections. And the laws about mechanical conditions are far more lax than they are up north. They really don't care if you have rust, or if your parking brake works. They just don't want you to have any lights not working, a majorly broken windshield, or something like that which can be a real traffic hazard.
The DOT cops, on the other hand, are major fascists.
What other states do not require inspections?
We have a smog test every two years, it is being phased out in 2014 as it is a waste of time and money but no regular safety checks on non commercial vehicles. However, if a vehicle gets pulled over and the officer sees something he doesn't like he will call the commercial inspector in for a thorough going over.
Commercial vehicles get the third degree, the inspectors go on a blitz frequently which makes for good press.
Quote from: sprucebunny on October 03, 2012, 06:36:58 AM
In the Northeast, we usually give up on a vehicle when they are so rusty they won't pass inspection.They don't allow tape anymore ::)
Sprucebunny,
I was actually pretty surprised when I took my grandfather's Ford Explorer to get a sticker, and they failed it! They said there was too much rust under the door jam so they couldn't pass it.
My dad ended up finding another Explorer to buy him with 180k on it but no rust. So my grandfather took that Explorer, and my uncle took the rusty one (he lives in MA.) He didn't have any problem getting an inspection sticker.
I really couldn't believe that MA was a lot more lax than NH with they're inspections. My dad always jokes around and gives me greif now saying "you know, when you move to NH your gonna have to get all new cars" blah blah blah.... I don't listen. :D
Quote from: sprucebunny on October 03, 2012, 06:36:58 AM
Poor Piston would be in financial shock going from an Escape to a full size pickup :o
Your right about sticker shock :o
4 of the guys I work with just bought brand new trucks within the last year. One guy GMC, two guys Fords, and one guy Dodge, all deisel. The cheapest one was 42k and the most expensive was a decked out GMC Denali deisel to tow a 6k pound camper. (Yes, 6k, not 16k) He paid 62k for his truck. Although I give him credit, he's the only one that paid cash and didn't get a loan.
They give me greif for driving my Escape. Even if I were to buy a new truck, it wouldn't be NEW!
Personally, if I get the itch to spend the money, I'd rather put it into something more useful or fun. Maybe a new motorcycle or newer/bigger tractor. ;)
Florida used to have a vehicle inspection program, but it went away suddenly over 30 years ago. Then Governor, Bob Graham, took his motor home to be inspected and they flunked it. The next week, there was no more inspection. 8) 8) :D :D
Piston, I bet they are jealous of your gas bill, as well as you not having the payments.
And I'm with you on used vehicles. I recomend buying them in the South ;)
I got my RAV4 in Virginia. It was in Calif. 8 years.
Got my 99 4runner from Texas via KC MO.
Our annual inspection includes a computer fault check, brakes, lights etc. The rust standards have gotten strict. Guess they don't want the tourists tearing their fancy clothes on our cars :D
It would be fine with me if the state used less salt.
Luckily Okra they don't have the inspections here in Nebraska either, otherwise I'd probably be riding a horse or in jail (not sure which ;D). DOT can be a little aggressive, but usually you have to give them reason too, only time I've been pulled in was with our little straight truck, thankfully I wasn't in the old semi, I think I'd just hand them the keys and walk away ;).
Piston,are those the same guys that go home to thier apartment or their 250X250 foot house lot. ::) I would much rather own 2 tractors,sawmill,nice home and 170 acres than a 40k truck. I hear the same thing at work.
We use to have a 6 month inspection here. Went to once a year maybe 10 years ago. Just the wipers,glass,horn,rust,any pivots points under the vehicle,all lights. Some places really try hard to find something wrong,others are decent about it. I've had some not even jack the front end up.
Iowa used to have some kind of inspection - went away 30yrs ago though. Not sure why they even bothered with a midwest farming state.
Virgina DOES have inspecions - or atleast they used to 10 yrs ago. When I drove my old 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer out there when I was in the Navy, the Navy didn't require inspections to get base stickers. Then all of a sudden a couple years later when I needed new base stickers, they started requiring it.
That Jeep wouldn't pass one of their inspections so, in an effort to conform, I ended up parting with a $100 bill to the inspector for the sticker. :D :D
On the OP's note - my work and run-around vehicle that's a 91 Honda Civic has about 270K on it and runs perfect with the usual maintenance. Also used to have an 02 Dodge 1500 that was bought new that ended up amassing about 170K on it.. before a winter storm and a concrete road culvert took it's toll on it. :D
Vehicle inspections were done away with many years ago in Georgia, Like DanG related in Florida. Doesn't seem to have made any difference whatsoever.
It's also true that the roads are rougher up north, and it's a lot easier for something to go wrong, both in terms of structural failure, or climactic conditions. People complain about the roads down here, and I just grin-- remembering the birds-eye pot holes in Maine. . . and the sections where they just couldn't keep asphalt, and the road was gravel mud-- to the point you just had to build up your speed enough before you hit it, that hopefully momentum would carry you through to the other side (and you also hoped you didn't hit somebody else's car that got lost in there, and you couldn't see it poking up above the top of the mud). ::) Could tear a rear axle off that way. . . don't ask me how I know. :-\
Quote from: thecfarm on October 03, 2012, 05:50:49 PM
I would much rather own 2 tractors,sawmill,nice home and 170 acres than a 40k truck.
I'm with you Cfarm!
There is only 1 out of those 4 guys mentioned that actually uses his truck. He has large 5th wheel camper that he tows with it.
My uncle is famous for keeping cars running that most people would bring to the junk yard. Usually my dad will find him a car with high mileage that someone just wants to get rid of, he'll buy it, and run the thing for years. Of course, he has to fix some things on the cars, but he hasn't paid more than $1500 for a car for as long as I remember, in fact, $1500 is the tops he's paid. We joke around a lot with him saying that when a car hits 200k on the odometer, it's just broken in :D
He has never had a car payment, and could care less what he drives, as long as its dependable. I'm starting to get that way with my view on my own vehicles. Although, we do have the nice Jetta TDI for the wife to drive, but for my own vehicle, I'm starting to care less and less. :D
Boy, this thread just seems to be right on when it come to my vehicles. I have a 95 chevy dually I wore the diesel engine out in a few years back. That used to be my primary work truck for my business. I always overloaded it and it never moved unless it was loaded, except to go get loaded. Truck to light for the work it was being asked to perform. The diesel engine finally let go and I replaced i with a smallblock 400 which lasted about 250 miles. I finally gaveup and bought a new f450 diesel ford flatbed. I have kept the old chevy setting back behind the garage for a few years now, always figureing to fix it one day. I even went so far as to purchase a 366 truck motor to put in it. When I shut down my business, I sold the f450 and traded some of the equipment for another old truck, a 98 dodge with the 318 gas engine. Meant to be used mostly for a trash hualing truck. Last wk the engine in it decided to let go. Motor sounds like a bunch of pigymes inside a barrel with hammers beating on the side. Well, I drugg out the old 366 engine and put on the stand to see if it wold even run, which it seems to do very well. Then I got to figureing out what both trucks would bring if I sold them for scrap or parted them out. So, Now I have the 366 hanging on the engine hoist and I am searching craigslist to see whats available in my price range, and sitting here undecided as whether to scrap what I have and start all over, or just fix what I already have. Knowing even when I get the old chevy running again, I will still just have a old beatup truck not worth much more than scrap value. The truck wont be a daily driver or even depended on for any serious work, but boy do I feel lost without a pickup setting in the driveway.
What somebody else (ie, Kelly Blue Book, etc) thinks my vehicle is worth is irrelevant to me. I only care what it is worth to me. What my vehicle is worth has little to do with why I buy it or why I sell it. Usually ones sold by me go to someone who has another one for parts. What matters to me is, how much I can afford to pay for it, and what it can do for me.